Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I thought that was only a pitch though? As in, no actual development was made on it.

They did develop a demo according to the info.

Moreover I'm not sure we have actual proof.

DK Vine were the first to cover it, then most of their info was corroborated with Liam Robertson. DidYouKnowGaming also was convinced of its legitimacy, which is why Liam’s video is on their channel, and DYKG have also leaked a ton of legit cancelled games.

If you’re looking for actual footage or Vicarious Visons staff members publicly confirming it you won’t get that, but there is evidence backing up its validity, and Liam Robertson undoubtedly has insider info on various game projects.

Liam went on to make a video on Crash Bandicoot 5 which has definitive proof via concept art and game footage.

 

[Diddy Kong]

On the topic of Ganondorf, how would everyone feel if Smash completely revamps his moveset so that he plays like his boss fight in Tears of the Kingdom but had alts of his appearances in other games (like they did with the first Hyrule Warriors)? Would it look too weird seeing OoT Ganondorf animate like TotK Ganondorf? I’d gladly take that myself.

I want the Zelda cast to have these kind of alternative costumes anyway. As long as they fit of course.

TotK Ganondorf in general is a big **** yes too by the way. I think nobody would complain about that change at all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

On the topic of Ganondorf, how would everyone feel if Smash completely revamps his moveset so that he plays like his boss fight in Tears of the Kingdom but had alts of his appearances in other games (like they did with the first Hyrule Warriors)? Would it look too weird seeing OoT Ganondorf animate like TotK Ganondorf? I’d gladly take that myself.

I want the Zelda cast to have these kind of alternative costumes anyway. As long as they fit of course.

TotK Ganondorf in general is a big **** yes too by the way. I think nobody would complain about that change at all.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Liam went on to make a video on Crash Bandicoot 5 which has definitive proof via concept art and game footage.

That, I am fully aware of. I had been following Liam on the Crash stuff, even though it meant being exposed to that fandom's toxic side. But yeah, that whole video was a gut punch for me, and is partially why I'm so nervous about Crash's future in general, not just his chances of joining Smash...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Y’all want a Ganondorf moveset that conforms itself to Zelda canon? Well, you’re getting the Monkey’s Paw instead because rather than Smash trying to fit with Zelda canon, it’s the Zelda canon that’s trying to fit with Smash.

I don't see it.

BotW blob monster Ganon and TotK katana master Ganondorf are nothing like Falcondorf.

On the topic of Ganondorf, how would everyone feel if Smash completely revamps his moveset so that he plays like his boss fight in Tears of the Kingdom but had alts of his appearances in other games

I would like that very much.

As for how good his moveset is at representing the character, at this point I'd say it's quite good them.

It isn't.

If the next Smash has an Adventure Mode that was similar to Melee, what levels would you like to see?

Melee had and Adventure Mode? I just remember a long list of Event Battles.

Anyways, here's a prediction on Falcondorf before we move on; Falcondorf dies as a moveset, but lives on in playstyle.

The correct solution is still:
1. Give Ganondorf a new, fully decloned moveset.
2. Give the Falcondorf moveset to Black Shadow.
3. Profit!

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

That, I am fully aware of. I had been following Liam on the Crash stuff, even though it meant being exposed to that fandom's toxic side. But yeah, that whole video was a gut punch for me, and is partially why I'm so nervous about Crash's future in general, not just his chances of joining Smash...

I hadn’t been so disappointed by a video game cancellation since Silent Hills. Hopefully Microsoft allows a new Crash game to be made, and not let the franchise go the way of the bear and bird. At least Banjo & Kazooie being in Smash shows that Microsoft is cool with their dormant characters being in Smash, so Crash probably still has a decent shot.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I hadn’t been so disappointed by a video game cancellation since Silent Hills. Hopefully Microsoft allows a new Crash game to be made, and not let the franchise go the way of the bear and bird. At least Banjo & Kazooie being in Smash shows that Microsoft is cool with their dormant characters being in Smash, so Crash probably still has a decent shot.

Speaking of this, before they went indie I was really hoping Toys for Bob would be able to make a Banjo-Kazooie/Banjo-Tooie remake package. If there's any studio I trust to do that justice, it's Toys for Bob, plus with Spyro under their belt, they have experience with a series of collectathons.

They still could I suppose, and I'm glad they went indie so they didn't become part of the ceaseless CoD machine, but man am I sad that remake hasn't happened yet.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm probably in the minority but I honestly don't want TotK Ganondorf to outright replace Falcondorf. If possible, I'd like for both to be present (+ Ganon.)

The correct solution is still:

1. Add and give TotK Ganondorf a new, fully decloned moveset.
2. Give a new Falcon semi-clone moveset to Black Shadow.
3. Retain OOT Falcondorf but with further tweaks/differences.
4. Re-add TP Link.
5. Give BotW Link a revamped BotW/TotK moveset.
6. Add classic, trident-wielding, pig demon Ganon.
7. Re-add TP Zelda but with her sword and light arrows.
8. ???
9. Add a Smash original composite Impa.
10. Add another one or two non-Triforce fan favorites.
11. You get the result of a decent spread of Zelda games repped.
+ Ganon (ALttP/ALBW)
(OOT)
(WW)
(TP)
+ Dorf (BotW/TotK)
Impa + >insert any of; Skull Kid, Midna, Ghirahim, a BotW Champion, a TotK sage, an OOT sage, Tingle, etc. <

Yes, I know that's not realistic, but it's what I want (albeit scaled back.)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't see it.

BotW blob monster Ganon and TotK katana master Ganondorf are nothing like Falcondorf.

Point taken on blob monster but it also was never about him lmao

As for TotK Ganon, I already described why it works.

But for a non-spoilery answer, it's all about the vibes. He would ditch all of his stuff and try to take you down by punching and kicking solely as a way to show that he doesn't need any of his bells and whistles to take you down.

Falcondorf may not be the best portrayal in terms of the actual moves, but it has the EXACT SAME energy that Ganondorf has in TotK about how he refuses to give it his all since he thinks he's strong enough to not care.

If you don't see it, that's fair. But I really feel a canon Dorf has never matched the vibes of Falcondorf as well as they do now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

With Akuma as an Echo Fighter on the brain, I decided to take a look at his properties in Street Fighter II: Turbo to see what that might look like. Without knowing exactly how he works, I think he will share most of Ken's normal attack changes, but all of his special moves will have a very significant change that give him new options in neutral and advantage. Street Fighter II: Turbo Akuma also has extremely high damage, but since 1, that was broken, and 2, Ryu's damage is already super high, it's more likely that he'd get a damage nerf to his individual moves to make up for the fact that he has a bunch of new combo routes.

Interestingly, Demon Flip isn't a thing in Street Fighter II: Turbo, so it will probably be absent, especially given that he's an Echo Fighter in this scenario, and we're already implementing another utterly rediculous special move, as well as multiple new Final Smashes. If they thought it was a big enough part of his identity, it could replace Focus Attack as his down special, but I won't be accounting for it here. I also kinda just don't know how practical it would be in the context of a platform fighter since its potency relies on traditional fighting game mechanics.

Spoiler: Predicted Broadstrokes Changelist

• Akuma is much lighter than Ryu, likely weighing similarly to Kirby.
• Akuma’s held forward tilt is his far standing medium punch, just like with Ken.
• Also like Ken, his forward smash is his standing heavy kick.
• Also also like Ken, his up air is his neutral jump light kick.
• Gou Hadouken works a lot like Ryu’s Hadouken, but in the air, it becomes Zanku Hadouken, which fires diagonally downward.
  • Zanku Hadouken can easily lead to combos, giving Akuma another approach option.
  • It’s trajectory makes it much worse for projectile wars, limiting Akuma’s options at long range somewhat.
  • Akuma can still do Shakunetsu Hadouken, so he's still able to play the long range game.
• Tatsumaki Zankukyaku is a multi-hit like Ken’s Tatsumaki Senpukyaku, but Akuma’s version of the move pops opponents up for combos, and is likely to be Akuma’s X-factor in Smash since this thing combos into imagination in Street Fighter II: Turbo.
• Gou Shoryuken is a multi-hit, with all variants hitting three times. It also deals signifigantly less knockback due to Akuma's ability to combo into it.
• Inputting +() or + () while on the ground performs Ashura Senkuu. Akuma charges for a few frames, then glides forward or backward. When holding the input, Akuma travels about half the length of Final Destination, and when tapped, he travels a quarter of Final Destination’s length. Akuma is intangible for most of the duration of this move.
  • This is essentially one big dodge roll, allowing Akuma to ignore long range pressure, and escape from bad positions like the corner, with the caveat that it has enough startup lag for opponents to react to it, and punish you for initiating or ending the move in their face if you don't catch them off guard. Opponents are also able to bait it, and hit him out of the startup if used carelessly.
  • There is an aggressive end lag penalty for spamming this move.
• When you hit 100%, Akuma will start to radiate dark energy. In this state, inputting while on the ground performs Shun Goku Satsu. This is the classic version of the super with no cutscene. Akuma will charge for a beat, then slowly glide forward about half of the length of final destination. If he comes into contact with an opponent, he will grab them, and explode them, leaving them on the ground. This move is untechable, and you can't get up until Akuma's animation is done playing. The move deals a lot of damage, but is hard to hit, and will never K.O. Using this move removes Akuma's ability to use it, similarly to how Kazuya's Rage Art works.
  • Upon gaining access to his Final Smash, the player can input this move regardless of Akuma's HP to perform a cutscene Final Smash version of the move. In this version, Akuma dashes across the screen extremely quickly, and he's invincible, so you can't hit him out of it.
• Akuma's far super is actually two supers, which means he's getting 4 of them. On the ground, his far super is Messatsu-Gou-Hadou, which is essentially just Shinku Hadouken, but purple. In the air, it's Tenma-Gou-Zankuu, which is Messatsu-Gou-Hadou, but fired diagonally downward. When up close, Akuma will perform Messatsu-Gou-Shoryu, a combo of three Gou Shoryukens that resembles its appearance in Marvel Vs. Capcom.

 

[Gengar84]

You know what I think would be pretty cool? If they expanded the options in Stage Builder to not only allow a lot more freedom in normal stages but to also let you create things like your own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish. You could select an option before making the stage what mode you’re intending the stage to work for and it will adjust some rules and options for that. That would be an awesome way to get endless character specific side stages like we got in 64 and Melee without putting too much burden on the developers themselves. It would also be awesome if they could find a way to make the created stages look more natural and not flat cutouts of different materials. That part is probably a lot of work though and I’m not exactly sure how they’d do it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what I think would be pretty cool? If they expanded the options in Stage Builder to not only allow a lot more freedom in normal stages but to also let you create things like your own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish. You could select an option before making the stage what mode you’re intending the stage to work for and it will adjust some rules and options for that. That would be an awesome way to get endless character specific side stages like we got in 64 and Melee without putting too much burden on the developers themselves. It would also be awesome if they could find a way to make the created stages look more natural and not flat cutouts of different materials. That part is probably a lot of work though and I’m not exactly sure how they’d do it.

If it comes back I'd like to see:

• Better optimization.
  • This is the most important thing, as the current implementation can't handle nearly as much stuff as a regular stage can.
• Platform materials based on existing stages rather than generic materials.
  • I'm not going to expect them to make an auto-tile version of every stage, in fact, 12 + the 3 special terrain types is pretty good, I'd just like them to not be generic. Like, have New Super Mario Bros. U's grass terrain instead of regular grass, or Pirate Ship's terrain instead of generic wood.
• All Battlefield/Ω stage backgrounds
  • The only reason I can think of as to why they didn't do this is because they compressed existing backgrounds and stored them separately, but like, c'mon.
  • I will forgive not including 3rd party stage backgrounds though.

 

[Dan Quixote]

• All Battlefield/Ω stage backgrounds
  • The only reason I can think of as to why they didn't do this is because they compressed existing backgrounds and stored them separately, but like, c'mon.
  • I will forgive not including 3rd party stage backgrounds though.

The thing is, knowing Sakurai, Smash won't include a feature that isn't comprehensive like that if they can help it. If the third parties said no, then he'd scrap the whole idea of including every stage background.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The thing is, knowing Sakurai, Smash won't include a feature that isn't comprehensive like that if they can help it. If the third parties said no, then he'd scrap the whole idea of including every stage background.

Sakurai please. I will survive if there are a couple exceptions due to legal reasons.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Sakurai please. I will survive if there are a couple exceptions due to legal reasons.

It's my pet theory for why there isn't an option to turn every stage into Small Battlefield. It was a late idea and it would require renegotiating with the previous third parties who probably signed off on specific parameters for the stages.

 

[RileyXY1]

It's my pet theory for why there isn't an option to turn every stage into Small Battlefield. It was a late idea and it would require renegotiating with the previous third parties who probably signed off on specific parameters for the stages.

Yeah. He chose to replace that idea with the idea to make the Smash-original stages (Battlefield, Small Battlefield, Big Battlefield, and Final Destination) play any song in the game rather than just the Smash-original music.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's my pet theory for why there isn't an option to turn every stage into Small Battlefield. It was a late idea and it would require renegotiating with the previous third parties who probably signed off on specific parameters for the stages.

It probably isn't that easy to Omega/BF-ify every single stage and have things be consistent across everything anyway, as seen with Omega/BF Garreg initially having the wrong blast zone size.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It probably isn't that easy to Omega/BF-ify every single stage and have things be consistent across everything anyway, as seen with Omega/BF Garreg initially having the wrong blast zone size.

Even then a lot of them differ in that they deactivate either Star K.O.s, Screen K.O.s, or both.

That and the flat stages can cause wonky hitbox interactions.

 

[ScrubReborn]

If it comes back I'd like to see:

• Better optimization.
  • This is the most important thing, as the current implementation can't handle nearly as much stuff as a regular stage can.
• Platform materials based on existing stages rather than generic materials.
  • I'm not going to expect them to make an auto-tile version of every stage, in fact, 12 + the 3 special terrain types is pretty good, I'd just like them to not be generic. Like, have New Super Mario Bros. U's grass terrain instead of regular grass, or Pirate Ship's terrain instead of generic wood.
• All Battlefield/Ω stage backgrounds
  • The only reason I can think of as to why they didn't do this is because they compressed existing backgrounds and stored them separately, but like, c'mon.
  • I will forgive not including 3rd party stage backgrounds though.

To add: just bring back most of the other misc. removed features from the previous stage builders (Spikes and Conveyor Belts from Brawl's, different cannon/spring sizes from Smash 4). The removal of those things has always been a pet peeve even if Ult's is overall the best Builder.

Oh and of course; let us use our custom stages in Training Mode! IDK why you can't do that anymore.

 

[ninjahmos]

Reposting

Which characters do you guys think would benefit from being given their own unique mechanics, like a meter or something that represents their own powers? I was thinking it could be used up whenever you use your Specials or Final Smash so they can create more powerful versions of those attacks.

 

[The Prankster 16]

Reposting

Idk, maybe Sonic if he gets some new moves he could have a boost gauge? Honsetly I feel like a lot of fanmade movesets for characters (revamped or entirely new) rely too much on giving every single character a super meter, or a resource they use and have to recharge, or a monado wheel that changes each of their moves to something entirely different.

 

[NintenRob]

I know this is hot take here but I'm pretty satisfied with Ganondorf as of Ultimate and wouldn't want too many changes and especially wouldn't want to lose the oot design.

 

[Cyberfire]

DK really does just need a developer. That's literally the only reason we haven't gotten a DK game in a long time.

There are rumors that other companies have tried making DK games, but for one reason or another it never stuck. Why do you think that is?

I think it's because Nintendo has a high standard for DK, personally.

There's been a long standing rumour that the 3D Mario team are/were making a DK game. But with Switch 2 coming next year, I'm not sure the timelines line up, cos those guys almost certainly have a 3D Mario cooking at the moment.

 

[Noipoi]

Tcos those guys almost certainly have a 3D Mario cooking at the moment.

Wonder what that's gonna look like.

Same gameplay as Odyssey? An expansion of the concepts from Bowser's Fury? An open world Mario adventure?

I'm intrigued

 

[Gorgonzales]

I know this is hot take here but I'm pretty satisfied with Ganondorf as of Ultimate and wouldn't want too many changes and especially wouldn't want to lose the oot design.

Credit where credit is due, your take is actually hot and not lukewarm like most "hot takes" I see.

Though I don't see why you couldn't give him a new kit while still retaining the OoT design. Not every Dorf-Rework™ needs to stick to TotK.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Wonder what that's gonna look like.

Same gameplay as Odyssey? An expansion of the concepts from Bowser's Fury? An open world Mario adventure?

I'm intrigued

I know realistically speaking it won't happen but I could genuinely picture a Galaxy 3. If Bowser's Fury is the direction they want to take the series from here, then they'll potentially feel like they need to find a more interesting / impressive way to separate levels than the ocean, and separating them as planets in space will allow for the same core gameplay of physically moving between levels in an open area, but with much more space for interesting level design and random things to happen (the speedrun comets from mario galaxy could now be simply visible when you're approaching a planet, they could have secret levels in the very far reaches of the galaxy, etc.).

Admittedly this is probably just wishful thinking as I grew up with the Wii, and they'll probably do something completely new for the next game - and whatever that is I'm sure it will be great - but I genuinely feel like this could be really cool. (Genuinely if the movement is like mario odyssey and the levels & open spaces are much much larger than in bowser's fury, I think that may be my dream mario game, assuming the aesthetics and music are more in the style of galaxy (again, this is pure nostalgia talking)).

 

[ninjahmos]

If Ganondorf gets his moveset reworked, should he just go full-on with his sword or still retain a few punches and kicks?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Ganondorf gets his moveset reworked, should he just go full-on with his sword or still retain a few punches and kicks?

He should definitely still get some punches and kicks. He's no stranger to doing either of these even in canon.

 

[NintenRob]

Credit where credit is due, your take is actually hot and not lukewarm like most "hot takes" I see.

Though I don't see why you couldn't give him a new kit while still retaining the OoT design. Not every Dorf-Rework™ needs to stick to TotK.

Like I've been wondering lately, if Ganondorf was introduced as is. And there wasn't a Captain Falcon around to compare him too. Would people still single him out as needing a total overhaul.....


I mean probably, given they say the same of others like Samus and Sonic, being a clone isn't a prerequisite for wanting an overhaul. But to me, Ganondorf is has shed Falcondorf identity. Those new Smash attacks are among the most satisfying in the game, his kicks are no where near as out of place on oot Ganondorf as they were TP, and he's just an absolute powerhouse who's a top ten most fun character to play as for me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to some changes. Down b and Up B are probably what I'd focus on if I needed to change thing, but I just don't want a full overhaul anymore. I like Smash Ultimate Ganondorf and think he's really fun.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly I think Ganondorf just needs two new specials and he's adequate. Get rid of Neutral B and Up B. They aren't helping him much.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly I think Ganondorf just needs two new specials and he's adequate. Get rid of Neutral B and Up B. They aren't helping him much.

Honestly I'd even go a step further and say he just needs a better Up Special, mainly so Ganondorf doesn't get actively punished for landing his command grab by it pushing him FARTHER AWAY FROM LEDGE.

Wizard Kick actually has some uses and ironically I feel like Warlock Punch has kinda become iconic in its own right lol

Maybe like Volcano Kick too, in terms of changed moves.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Replace. Wizard's Foot. With. Wizard's Dropkick.

That is all.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

• Give him an up B that actually helps his recovery. Even something as simple as what Smash Flash 2 did would be fine enough.
• Replace grounded Wizard's Foot with Wizard's Dropkick (aerial version can go either way but the grounded one is very important)
• For the love of Din, Nayru and Farore, give him a functional up tilt.
• Incorporate a cape flick somewhere. Not giving him a projectile is understandable since it might require massively rebalancing his moveset but giving him an answer against enemy projectiles would be very appreciated.
• If using the TotK design, change the animation of smash attacks to account for him using a katana rather than the SpaceWorld sword. Unless one goes the Gloom Club route, I guess, but the Gloom Sword is cooler dammit

That's all he really needs. More could always be appreciated but this feels like the bare minimum.

 

[Noipoi]

Wizard’s foot sounds like a fungal infection

 

[DarthEnderX]

Like I've been wondering lately, if Ganondorf was introduced as is. And there wasn't a Captain Falcon around to compare him too. Would people still single him out as needing a total overhaul.....

Not nearly as much. But I bet people would think it's a weird moveset for him.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m of two minds on Ganondorf’s moveset. On one hand, I find his current moveset fun to play (even if he’s not competitive) but on the other, I think it’s a bit of a missed opportunity not to use his dark magic attacks. He’s got a ton of potentially great moves to pull from in his games. I also prefer his OoT/Ultimate design to his TotK design.

I think I like the idea of a sort of amalgamation moveset pulling from the entire history of the character as well as classic Ganon for his moveset rather than entirely basing it off of a single game. That way, you could still keep a few of Smash Ganondorf’s best attacks. I think that’s also the best approach so alts of his different appearances doesn’t feel too weird.

 

[Oracle Link]

So speaking of all the talk of reworks lets do some!
(I will just assume that we only get one incarnation per character that allows me to get more creative)

I'll start with Ganondorf!

Obviously hes from TOTK and features these two looks as costumes:

With Colours based on his diffrent underlings and ganons!

Now for the moveset:

His Jab combo features the Miasma sword! Which is his quickest long reaching Attack!
Most tilts work the same! Although hes using Miasma instead of generic purple smoke!
His Smash attacks work the same although now hes using the Miasma Club!
His Neutral Aerial is a spin of his Spear!
For his Grabs hes much more cruel maybe even choking them!

Now for his specials:
B Is Dead Mans Volley (although made from miasma) its a slow easily reflectable projectile but with some power behind it!
Side B remains Flame choke as its probably his most canon special (beiong based on the choke he delivers to the sage in TP
Up B Is A Teleport
And Down B is A Ganon Rush were hes inveloped In a Pig Ganon Aura (it works similar to the demon kick although its stats are diffrent

Final Smash is The Dark beast Ganon i thought demon dragon is a bit too specific so i used dark beast ganon as a compromise!

And remember this Moveset is already a heavy Compromise i would probably make all his normals weapon based but i get that that would be a bit too much to learn tbh! My Favourite Ganondorf would have the trident and be basically ganon but still this is fine too!

 

[Gengar84]

So speaking of all the talk of reworks lets do some!
(I will just assume that we only get one incarnation per character that allows me to get more creative)

I'll start with Ganondorf!

Obviously hes from TOTK and features these two looks as costumes:
View attachment 396071
With Colours based on his diffrent underlings and ganons!

Now for the moveset:

His Jab combo features the Miasma sword! Which is his quickest long reaching Attack!
Most tilts work the same! Although hes using Miasma instead of generic purple smoke!
His Smash attacks work the same although now hes using the Miasma Club!
His Neutral Aerial is a spin of his Spear!
For his Grabs hes much more cruel maybe even choking them!

Now for his specials:
B Is Dead Mans Volley (although made from miasma) its a slow easily reflectable projectile but with some power behind it!
Side B remains Flame choke as its probably his most canon special (beiong based on the choke he delivers to the sage in TP
Up B Is A Teleport
And Down B is A Ganon Rush were hes inveloped In a Pig Ganon Aura (it works similar to the demon kick although its stats are diffrent

Final Smash is The Dark beast Ganon i thought demon dragon is a bit too specific so i used dark beast ganon as a compromise!

And remember this Moveset is already a heavy Compromise i would probably make all his normals weapon based but i get that that would be a bit too much to learn tbh! My Favourite Ganondorf would have the trident and be basically ganon but still this is fine too!

Do you think the version at the top would be more suited to a One-Winged Angel like temporary transformation rather than an alternate outfit?

Here’s a rough idea of what I was thinking for Ganondorf’s specials (made before ToTK):

Neutral Special - Dead Man’s Volley: This one is a lot like Sephiroth’s special on the ground. Pressing quickly is basically the same as Sephiroth’s weak special. Charging the move causes Ganondorf to levitate higher in the air as it charges and he fires the projectile diagonally down from the air with increasing power and blast range based on the charge. From the air, he always fires it diagonally downward.

Side Special - Fire Bats: This is essentially a flamethrower like Bowser’s or Charizard’s that he emits from his hand. The animation summons a wave of fire bats engulfed in flames. If you’ve ever played Diablo 3, it’s one of the variants of the Witch Doctor’s special (the game had Ganondorf’s Twilight Princess armor) but also based on classic Gannon.

Up Special - Trident toss: Ganondorf tosses his trident in one of eight directions and teleports to its location. The move has about the same properties as Fox’s up special regarding Start-up, range, and damage.

Down special: Ground pound: This is kind of similar to Bowser’s down special but he slams the ground with his fist.

 

[Garteam]

Here's the unfortunate reality of the situation (at least as I see it): Sakurai likes his traditions and he especially likes his traditional movesets. Link received a solid candidate for the single biggest overhaul of any veteran in the series' history in Ultimate and he's still 75% similar to his Smash for Wii U counterpart.

I just can't see Sakurai really ever taking steps beyond what has already been done to make Sworddorf a thing. If you change his tilts, aerials, grabs, etc. to accommodate a weapon, you're describing a complete rework that has never been seen before in series' history. Plus, for better or worse, Ganondorf's moveset is incredibly popular. Yes, he's the least competitively viable character in the game, but that doesn't change the fact he's everywhere at a casual level due to heavy hitters just doing better at that level and the memes tied to his current moveset.

I will agree on giving him new specials that function better and better represent his Zelda appearances. At the very least, Dead Man's Volley should be his neutral-B. It would only be OP if they treated it like Samus' Charge Shot, where Ganon has a big and fast projectile he basically always wants to find some way to confirm into. If it's just a slow projectile designed for stage control, that would actually really help Ganon by giving him a tool to help force interactions.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It’s always fun to speculate on reworked movesets but that’s just not something that’s going to ever happen as long as Sakurai is in charge which means Sonic will never be cool

All of those ideas would be better suited to making Demon King Ganondorf his own separate character since there’s no chance in hell Sakurai would go that far, especially given how iconic and meme-worthy the Falcondorf moveset is.

Still fun to think of what could be though