Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wunderwaft]

Give me decloned Ganondorf or give me death!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Give me decloned Ganondorf or give me death!

See you at your funeral then

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, he does have attacks that are slow and powerful, but between having his own Flash Shift like Samus, his wings and showing off some fast dashes, if they were to keep that speed in, I doubt he'd be heavier than Bowser unless they want to risk a super heavy character with insane recovery potential.

Considering Bowser is the heaviest I certainly hope they don't make a hybrid superheavyweight heavier than him.

Give me decloned Ganondorf or give me death!

Unfortunately I'm not a dev so death is all I have to offer you.

You have 3 days to get your affairs in order.

 

[Sid-cada]

So, who do you think will be the next super heavy weight added?

Do you think the Labo Robot has any chance of being that?

 

[ninjahmos]

Do you think they could use this as Ganondorf's victory theme for the next game?

 

[Ivander]

In terms of potential heavyweight characters, and I'll just be throwing stuff left and right regardless of chances.

• Practically any Goron character from Zelda, like Daruk, Yunobo, Darunia, Goron Link, etc. Outside of Gorons, maybe Sidon.
• Black Knight, Hector, Edelgard, any Armor Knight character could qualify. Reginn from Fire Emblem Heroes riding her Mecha can also qualify.
• Maybe Porky from Earthbound if using his Mech. Sure, his Spider Mech from Mother 3 is much bigger, but his Spider Mech from Earthbound is potentially just slightly bigger than Ness.
• Blastoise from Pokemon can certainly fit. Tinkaton would be an interesting aversion in that Tinkaton themselves are not heavy, but it's hammer is. Most of the Pseudo Legendaries work like Dragonite, Tyranitar, Metagross, Hydreigon, Goodra and Baxcalibur. And Zacian is another one that can work as a heavyweight.
• Hades from Kid Icarus Uprising could work as a heavyweight. Medusa could to some extent. Probably wouldn't be heavier than the other heavyweights, but Medusa can definitely put power and weight behind her attacks. And then there's also Cragalanche in the back corner.
• Bald Bull, Sandman or Super Macho Man from Punch Out! can certainly live to their titles as heavyweights.
• If Captain Falcon's attributes were based around F-Zero's gameplay and his Blue Falcon, Black Shadow from F-Zero can be one if his stats were made to compare with his Black Bull vehicle, as it is one of the heaviest vehicles in it's games.
• DJ Octavio in his mech works. Dr. Eggman in a mech like his Sonic Adventure 2 mech also works.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Do you think they could use this as Ganondorf's victory theme for the next game?

This one could be another good contender, imo.

Just imagine the actual battle theme taking over the results screen theme.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do you think they could use this as Ganondorf's victory theme for the next game?

Likely not. Even ignoring their kind of half baked approach to differing victory themes, there's a decent chance the version of Ganondorf we're using will change and this jingle will no longer make sense.

By the way, how come the Awakening cast, Corrin, and Byleth get their own victory fanfares, but not Ike? How come King K. Rool and Sephiroth gets a fully unique one, but Bowser and the Metroid villains get the regular jingle with electric guitars? Why is Ganondorf the only villain that doesn't get one at all? Actually wait, Smash still considers King Dedede a villain so why doesn't he get one either? They even had Meta Knight get one back in Brawl where this wasn't a thing!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Likely not. Even ignoring their kind of half baked approach to differing victory themes, there's a decent chance the version of Ganondorf we're using will change and this jingle will no longer make sense.

By the way, how come the Awakening cast, Corrin, and Byleth get their own victory fanfares, but not Ike? How come King K. Rool and Sephiroth gets a fully unique one, but Bowser and the Metroid villains get the regular jingle with electric guitars? Why is Ganondorf the only villain that doesn't get one at all? Actually wait, Smash still considers King Dedede a villain so why doesn't he get one either? They even had Meta Knight get one back in Brawl where this wasn't a thing!

At this point just give every character their own theme.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

At this point just give every character their own theme.

That would be the dream, but at the very least I'd like them to be just a bit more consistent with it. Like, give Bowser, his sun, and if it's still there, the plant Bowser's theme from Super Mario 64, give the Metroid villains a riff from one of the boss themes (or something, I'm not quite as knowledgeable on Metroid music), and Ganondorf...something, and I'll be set.

Oh, and a new generic track that plays afterward. I'm a little sick of Smash 64's character select theme.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It's about as much as work as doing unique themes for everyone, but even fighter specific variations of franchise themes would be nice.

Ganondorf getting a darker spin on the LoZ theme alone would be something.

 

[Laniv]

It's about as much as work as doing unique themes for everyone, but even fighter specific variations of franchise themes would be nice.

Ganondorf getting a darker spin on the LoZ theme alone would be something.

Ooh, like this?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

That would be the dream, but at the very least I'd like them to be just a bit more consistent with it. Like, give Bowser, his sun, and if it's still there, the plant Bowser's theme from Super Mario 64, give the Metroid villains a riff from one of the boss themes (or something, I'm not quite as knowledgeable on Metroid music), and Ganondorf...something, and I'll be set.

Oh, and a new generic track that plays afterward. I'm a little sick of Smash 64's character select theme.

I mean tbh I kinda like the Bowser/Jr./Plant theme we have now if only because it vaguely reminds me of Bowser's stage clear theme from TTYD even though I know it's not that.

Definitely replaced it with this exact theme when I could mod music in Smash 4 lol

The idea of Oatchi being a heavyweight makes some sense on paper given his role in Pikmin 4 and relative size to the player, but man oh man would it feel wrong. He’s barely bigger than a quarter in canon.

and don’t bring up Kirby characters being canonically tiny, I refuse to accept that.

Honestly I could see Oatchi being either a midweight or a heavyweight. Olimar's weight is the same as Kirby and Pikachu, so Oatchi being like 2-3 times the recruit's size makes me think like on the heavier side of midweights or the lighter side of heavyweights, somewhere in there tbh

 

[Arcanir]

That would be the dream, but at the very least I'd like them to be just a bit more consistent with it. Like, give Bowser, his sun, and if it's still there, the plant Bowser's theme from Super Mario 64, give the Metroid villains a riff from one of the boss themes (or something, I'm not quite as knowledgeable on Metroid music), and Ganondorf...something, and I'll be set.

Oh, and a new generic track that plays afterward. I'm a little sick of Smash 64's character select theme.

The thing with Metroid is that it's best and/or most iconic boss themes are character specific (or at least made character specific), so going with a generic boss theme would have you give the villains a less memorable tune for their victory just for the sake of being different from Samus'. Unless you want to give each villains their own unique theme (which I would be all for) the dark reprise of the iconic item collect jingle is a good way to give an all encompassing theme without going with something uninteresting.

 

[SPEN18]

What would Rauru's weight class be? He's fairly tall, and would probably take up a chunk of space on screen, even if his body type isn't necessarily a traditional heavyweight one. He might also need to be on the slower side to balance out some possibly crazy Zonai abilities they could throw into his moveset.

Another easy place to go is Pokemon, which has lots of heavyweight candidates. Garchomp, for one example.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What would Rauru's weight class be? He's fairly tall, and would probably take up a chunk of space on screen, even if his body type isn't necessarily a traditional heavyweight one. He might also need to be on the slower side to balance out some possibly crazy Zonai abilities they could throw into his moveset.

Depending on his playstyle he could easily be a featherweight.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Characters barely getting moveset revamps is one of the unfortunate realities of Smash development. I don't want really want a sequel unless they're willing to finally make some major changes.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly speaking of victory themes, I'm still in the camp of everyone needs new ones, just because none of them are consistent with each other any more. The Brawl ones feel outdated, Sonic still has the clear theme from his literal worst game on record, Yoshi and Icies got hacked up with a chainsaw, some of Smash 4's got arbitrarily sped up, but Zelda and Mother get brand new ones for some reason in Ultimate?

They all need to just be redone in the same style again, throw some new ones around maybe for characters like Wolf, Ganondorf, Ike... A new little theme after the victory theme plays, since the Smash 64 character select is great but we could stand a new one (or heck, remix Smash 64's post-results theme if you wanna stick with that kind of vibe).

 

[Kirby Dragons]

So, who do you think will be the next super heavy weight added?

Smash 4 didn't add a single super heavy weight, even if Jr is pretty heavy. Ultimate added two with Incineroar and K. Rool. What other realistic options could join their ranks?



Personally I think it's most likely that Jr. or Kazuya join them simply from having their weight buffed. That might be excessive for Kazuya but Jr. needs it. For a newcomer, DJ Octavio or Eggman could be cool mech heavyweights. Oatchi could be one perhaps. Ridley could have been one but they went in a different direction with him.

I can't tell if King Boo would be heavy because he's big and round, or light because he's floating and ghostly.

 

[NintenRob]

I can't tell if King Boo would be heavy because he's big and round, or light because he's floating and ghostly.

There is very little doubt in my mind that King Boo would be on the lighter end like Rosalina and Mewtwo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Yoshi and Icies got hacked up with a chainsaw, some of Smash 4's got arbitrarily sped up, but Zelda and Mother get brand new ones for some reason in Ultimate?

This is likely because there was no conceivable way to get Zelda and Mother's existing jingles into a shorter form. Taking anything out of either one would have resulted in an incomplete musical phrase, which would have been bad, even compared to the very obviously truncated tracks.

I can't tell if King Boo would be heavy because he's big and round, or light because he's floating and ghostly.

I feel like they'd split the difference and be on the lighter side of middleweight.

He'd probably end up being a heavy that isn't heavy so he gets away with a lot of weird shenanigans, stage control based or otherwise.

 

[Laniv]

I can't tell if King Boo would be heavy because he's big and round, or light because he's floating and ghostly.

I feel like he'd be a super lightweight, but with a bunch of intangibility on his moves to help him, sorta like what K. Rool has with his belly armor.

 

[AreJay25]

On the topic of victory themes.
Yeah uhhhh I'd really appreciate it if this guy's got changed next time.

To this day I still don't know why they opted for a remix of the MM2 title screen instead of, y'know... the actual stage clear theme that's been present throughout most of the series that also debuted in the SAME EXACT GAME

 

[DarthEnderX]

IDC what anyone says. Give me a fully reworked Ganondorf or give me death.

Give me decloned Ganondorf or give me death!

So, who do you think will be the next super heavy weight added?

Or Nightmare.

 

[SharkLord]

They could make Monster Hunter a heavyweight, right?

All things considered, a Great Sword alone probably weighs as much as Donkey Kong

 

[ninjahmos]

This one could be another good contender, imo.

Just imagine the actual battle theme taking over the results screen theme.

Sounds nice, but I'd rather hear a full-on remix of that.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The lists for Kingdom Hearts and Tekken should be done.

The first part of the third party poll has entered beta testing.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Do you think they could use this as Ganondorf's victory theme for the next game?

It'd be nice to have a remix of it.
There was this guy that remixed Ganondorf's main theme into a victory remix that I think would be relevant to share here.

I don't think it works that great as a victory theme, but I would like it as a looping track for after Ganondorf gets his victory. It's too important of a leitmotif to exclude in its entirety.

From what I understand this is an unpopular opinion, but I actually really like Ultimate's Zelda victory theme and think it not only suits all of the characters (including Ganondorf) but I overall prefer it to the previous iteration. It's very punchy and triumphant sounding with very in-your ears instruments that I feel captures Zelda's spirit of adventure more. This theme suits Ganondorf more than the one used in Brawl and Sm4sh.

 

[ninjahmos]

It'd be nice to have a remix of it.
There was this guy that remixed Ganondorf's main theme into a victory remix that I think would be relevant to share here.

I don't think it works that great as a victory theme, but I would like it as a looping track for after Ganondorf gets his victory. It's too important of a leitmotif to exclude in its entirety.

From what I understand this is an unpopular opinion, but I actually really like Ultimate's Zelda victory theme and think it not only suits all of the characters (including Ganondorf) but I overall prefer it to the previous iteration. It's very punchy and triumphant sounding with very in-your ears instruments that I feel captures Zelda's spirit of adventure more. This theme suits Ganondorf more than the one used in Brawl and Sm4sh.

Yeah, I'd rather have a new remix of Ganon's Theme, as well.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I can totally see where you’re coming from. My only current complaint with Dedede is that I really miss his Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos but I know that’s not the popular opinion. The Gordos are most likely much better competitively since you have more control over them but I just thought the idea of summoning minions that wandered around the stage was really cool. That’s probably just my casualness showing.

Actually the Waddle Dee throw was competitively a better move than the current Gordo throw. Especially since the Gordo can be send back towards Dedede.

So, who do you think will be the next super heavy weight added?

Smash 4 didn't add a single super heavy weight, even if Jr is pretty heavy. Ultimate added two with Incineroar and K. Rool. What other realistic options could join their ranks?



Personally I think it's most likely that Jr. or Kazuya join them simply from having their weight buffed. That might be excessive for Kazuya but Jr. needs it. For a newcomer, DJ Octavio or Eggman could be cool mech heavyweights. Oatchi could be one perhaps. Ridley could have been one but they went in a different direction with him.

Like others said, Funky Kong, Raven Beak, Monster Hunter. Oachi also doesn't strike me as a light weight, but probably won't be super heavy either.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Actually the Waddle Dee throw was competitively a better move than the current Gordo throw. Especially since the Gordo can be send back towards Dedede.

True, though not for the reasons Gengar84 wants them for.

Personally, I've warmed up to Gordo Throw, but I want so much for it to not be the start and end of his kit.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I'd like them to recycle the spawning minions idea on Eggman. If he has to fight on the Egg Mobile, it spawning Badniks seems like a decent idea.
Little too similar to Bowser Jr. maybe, but each Badnik would behave differently. You'd have the crab, the bee and the rest of the classic Sonic peanut gallery.

 

[Perkilator]

View attachment 395606

I saw this Classic Mode concept and while I like the idea of branching paths, I think it would be wise to split up the amount of stages based on difficulty.

• Beginner: Stages 1-4
• Easy: Stages 1-6
• Normal: Stages 1-8
• Hard: Stages 1-10
• Expert: Stages 1-12

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I saw this Classic Mode concept and while I like the idea of branching paths, I think it would be wise to split up the amount of stages based on difficulty.

• Beginner: Stages 1-4
• Easy: Stages 1-6
• Normal: Stages 1-8
• Hard: Stages 1-10
• Expert: Stages 1-12

I'm not sure how entirely necessary that would be, but if you wanted to, you could do something like:

down -> down: Ends at level 6
down -> up -> down: Ends at level 8.
down -> up -> up -> down: Ends at level 10
Picking routes that go any higher will continue until level 12, with the hard and expert routes having the same amount of levels. The expert route has a tougher boss.

I'm not too optimistic on the branching path concept returning for the next game, but if it does, I predict it will probably just work like it does in SSB3Ds where there's always a set number of matches, and you're just deciding if you want each one to get easier, harder, or stay the same difficulty.

 

[Will]

Whenever you get a phone call from E. Gadd in all Luigi’s Mansion games, you get a ringtone remix of the theme song.

I think this needs to be remixed as Luigi’s victory theme and I will be very disappointed if it does not loop.

 

[The Prankster 16]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game? For me, there's 2 options:

Ultimate Deluxe/2: If they really are just gonna bring everyone back again, either as a Deluxe version or like a Smash 5.5, I say go all out and bump the roster up to 100. We're at 89 so far (counting echoes and transformations as separate characters), so the roster would only need 11 newcomers, which seems like a decent amount given past games (64 had 12, M had 14, B had 18, 4 had 17 in base, and U had 11 in base.)

New game: I think around 60-70 characters base game seems likely. Cut about half the roster and add 15-18 newcomers for a size in-between Post-DLC 4 (58) and Base Ultimate (76). Could also leave room for some reworked veterans. That way you could simplify and breathe new life into the roster while still keeping the large number of characters Smash is known for.

 

[CannonStreak]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game? For me, there's 2 options:

Ultimate Deluxe/2: If they really are just gonna bring everyone back again, either as a Deluxe version or like a Smash 5.5, I say go all out and bump the roster up to 100. We're at 89 so far (counting echoes and transformations as separate characters), so the roster would only need 11 newcomers, which seems like a decent amount given past games (64 had 12, M had 14, B had 18, 4 had 17 in base, and U had 11 in base.)

New game: I think around 60-70 characters base game seems likely. Cut about half the roster and add 15-18 newcomers for a size in-between Post-DLC 4 (58) and Base Ultimate (76). Could also leave room for some reworked veterans. That way you could simplify and breathe new life into the roster while still keeping the large number of characters Smash is known for.

Partially unrelated with what you said about the ideal roster if that is okay, but I think the new game is more likely, as an Ultimate Deluxe does not have the same reasons that Mario Kart 8 had for having a Deluxe version, and an Ultimate 2, with new characters adding to an existing roster, I say it would be too much for even the developers to work on and may not allow for much new content.

 

[Will]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game?

Any, as long as I get one of my most wanteds as a newcomer.

 

[ninjahmos]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game? For me, there's 2 options:

Ultimate Deluxe/2: If they really are just gonna bring everyone back again, either as a Deluxe version or like a Smash 5.5, I say go all out and bump the roster up to 100. We're at 89 so far (counting echoes and transformations as separate characters), so the roster would only need 11 newcomers, which seems like a decent amount given past games (64 had 12, M had 14, B had 18, 4 had 17 in base, and U had 11 in base.)

New game: I think around 60-70 characters base game seems likely. Cut about half the roster and add 15-18 newcomers for a size in-between Post-DLC 4 (58) and Base Ultimate (76). Could also leave room for some reworked veterans. That way you could simplify and breathe new life into the roster while still keeping the large number of characters Smash is known for.

Well, if the new game cuts around 30 characters, then I'd say at least 50 characters for base game, which I feel may leave room for about 15-30 newcomers and a couple of reworked veterans.

 

[Guynamednelson]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game? For me, there's 2 options:

Ultimate Deluxe/2: If they really are just gonna bring everyone back again, either as a Deluxe version or like a Smash 5.5, I say go all out and bump the roster up to 100. We're at 89 so far (counting echoes and transformations as separate characters), so the roster would only need 11 newcomers, which seems like a decent amount given past games (64 had 12, M had 14, B had 18, 4 had 17 in base, and U had 11 in base.)

New game: I think around 60-70 characters base game seems likely. Cut about half the roster and add 15-18 newcomers for a size in-between Post-DLC 4 (58) and Base Ultimate (76). Could also leave room for some reworked veterans. That way you could simplify and breathe new life into the roster while still keeping the large number of characters Smash is known for.

Late DLC expansion (I don't want Ult DX/2 and don't think it would add enough for this): 100. It's what I aimed for when I posted this list.

Standard sequel: 50 is what I think is most likely pre-DLC.