Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CannonStreak]

Anyway, to reply to T The Prankster 16 ...

In terms of new roster, 15 newcomers or 10, 60 veterans with me being hopeful on that, or 50 veterans if I am to be realistic.

 

[RouffWestie]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game? For me, there's 2 options:

Ultimate Deluxe/2: If they really are just gonna bring everyone back again, either as a Deluxe version or like a Smash 5.5, I say go all out and bump the roster up to 100. We're at 89 so far (counting echoes and transformations as separate characters), so the roster would only need 11 newcomers, which seems like a decent amount given past games (64 had 12, M had 14, B had 18, 4 had 17 in base, and U had 11 in base.)

New game: I think around 60-70 characters base game seems likely. Cut about half the roster and add 15-18 newcomers for a size in-between Post-DLC 4 (58) and Base Ultimate (76). Could also leave room for some reworked veterans. That way you could simplify and breathe new life into the roster while still keeping the large number of characters Smash is known for.

183, just over Sparking Zero
Complete with as many Mario forms as there are Goku forms.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

100 characters is the obvious next milestone.
Scaling back is lame!

 

[Perkilator]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game?

TBH, I don’t really care about roster size anymore. I just want fun newcomers and veteran revamps to justify any and all cuts.

 

[Shinuto]

I just want Smash to reach over 100 character roster, ater that Im fine with cuts, scale backs. etc.

 

[Will]

I just want Smash to reach over 100 character roster, ater that Im fine with cuts, scale backs. etc.

monkey’s paw: the remaining 11 newcomers are all marth clones

 

[RouffWestie]

100 characters is actually the easiest thing in the world. Bring back all the veterans, get rid of the echo fighter label, and promote these
+Arel alts+Sophia alts
to full separate fighters.

Then add Alear. Bada-bing bada-boom, now they can easily market Smash Bros. 100 for the 100 character roster

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm fine with the game roster being smaller than Ultimate's. I think the game would turn out better that way.

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm fine with the game roster being smaller than Ultimate's. I think the game would turn out better that way.

I happen to agree all the way. I do see the game turn better as a new game with less characters after all. Sakurai did say EiH may not happen again, anyway.

 

[SPEN18]

At the end of the day 100 is a completely arbitrary number and IMO it'd be silly to decide the entire direction of the game based on that. If our number system was just base 9 instead of base 10, we would've hit the triple-digit 100 already lol.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

100 isn't an arbitrary number.

It's a really cool, RADICAL number.

 

[jamesster445]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game? For me, there's 2 options:

Ultimate Deluxe/2: If they really are just gonna bring everyone back again, either as a Deluxe version or like a Smash 5.5, I say go all out and bump the roster up to 100. We're at 89 so far (counting echoes and transformations as separate characters), so the roster would only need 11 newcomers, which seems like a decent amount given past games (64 had 12, M had 14, B had 18, 4 had 17 in base, and U had 11 in base.)

New game: I think around 60-70 characters base game seems likely. Cut about half the roster and add 15-18 newcomers for a size in-between Post-DLC 4 (58) and Base Ultimate (76). Could also leave room for some reworked veterans. That way you could simplify and breathe new life into the roster while still keeping the large number of characters Smash is known for.

If it's following Ultimate: 100. I think fighter number 100 was the perfect way for Ultimate to end off, but alas.

Sequel/New Game: 64 . I will say considering just how fruitful the Switch era was, I expect a lot of newcomers especially for series that have not seen one in a while like Pikmin and Kirby if not new IP altogether like Famicom Detective Club and Advance Wars. Especially considering how many cuts there are going to be.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

My only concern with there being 100 characters is balancing issues.

That, and people complaining about there being too many characters even the game's characters are overall extremely well balanced.

 

[cashregister9]

When it comes to 100 characters, I think at that point, I kinda want them to go full "Video Game Character Battle Simulator" a la Dragon Ball Sparking Zero/Tenkaichi.

No super serious balance, just make it pure unfiltered chaos and fun.

 

[Perkilator]

To be frank, I think the ship for 100 characters sailed with Ultimate. The only way I could’ve seen that game reaching 100 playable characters is if it had 6 more DLC characters and 5 more Echo Fighters.

 

[ninjahmos]

Yeah, 100 characters may have been a missed opportunity for Ultimate, and I doubt they'd be able to do it for the next game, but we'll see what happens.

 

[Ivander]

I'll see what happens. 100 playable characters would be cool, but it is what it is if it doesn't happen with the next Smash Bros.

 

[Guynamednelson]

My only concern with there being 100 characters is balancing issues.

That, and people complaining about there being too many characters even the game's characters are overall extremely well balanced.

Ultimate didn't really have balance issues until the DLC newcomers. It probably wouldn't be that big of a deal until, well, DLC if the next game aims for 100 base game characters.

Probably. Because Ultimate's high tiers aren't exclusively DLC characters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game?

100 unique Fighters. 20+ Echoes.

100 characters is actually the easiest thing in the world. Bring back all the veterans, get rid of the echo fighter label

Counting the Echoes isn't even really necessary.

Ultimate is only 18 characters away from 100 unique Fighters. Which is how many newcomers Ultimate had after DLC.

So just do Ultimate again and they'll reach the goal.

 

[Gorgonzales]

In my ideal world they'd make a Smash Bros designed to last for the next decade. As in a game with a foundation so rock-solid that the support for it transcends console generations, allowing the devs to continuously build upon it.

Start with the next game being a soft refresh that trims the fat of the roster, updates the veterans, overhauls egregiously bad movesets, have an all-new stage list, complete with additional modes and an in-depth story mode like Subspace (with actual dialogue); if there was any time to go hard on a story mode, it'd be when the roster was as small as ever.

Then periodically add DLC characters, skins, and stages throughout the console's lifespan, in addition to adding stuff that we've never really seen added post-launch like items, assist trophies, story content, and the like. Ideally the content is consistent and lasts longer than Ultimate's content cycle, maybe going for a (NON-OVERLY-PREDATORY) live service format where a bundle of new small stuff is added each month like a handful of skins.

Then when the Switch 3 rolls around, and since the intent for this Smash was to be cross-generation, you can transfer your save data to the new console while the game itself receives a hefty number of newcomers, modes, and stages for the new console.

I believe this is the way to achieving 100 characters in a Smash game of any sort, while making sure that vets don't feel outdated and the whole experience feels fresh too.

 

[KillerCage]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game? For me, there's 2 options:

Ultimate Deluxe/2: If they really are just gonna bring everyone back again, either as a Deluxe version or like a Smash 5.5, I say go all out and bump the roster up to 100. We're at 89 so far (counting echoes and transformations as separate characters), so the roster would only need 11 newcomers, which seems like a decent amount given past games (64 had 12, M had 14, B had 18, 4 had 17 in base, and U had 11 in base.)

New game: I think around 60-70 characters base game seems likely. Cut about half the roster and add 15-18 newcomers for a size in-between Post-DLC 4 (58) and Base Ultimate (76). Could also leave room for some reworked veterans. That way you could simplify and breathe new life into the roster while still keeping the large number of characters Smash is known for.

I have a hard time seeing Ultimate Deluxe being a thing largely due to licensing. Ultimate's roster size is its biggest strength and biggest weakness. Personally I would try to have to have the roster not exceed 60 characters, preferably around the size of Smash 4's base roster.

 

[Guynamednelson]

maybe going for a (NON-OVERLY-PREDATORY) live service format

I wouldn't be concerned about live services being predatory so much as that it might not be appealing to make Smash one when you consider that everyone who wants to spend time and money on a live service game

A. Has already found their game
B. Wants to spend time and money on A live service game. As in a single one.

Although in terms of such a thing being predatory, I would worry about it becoming too expensive to get the full roster if you're just getting into the game 5 years after it launched. MS recently announced that the first three expansions made for Age of Empires II DE will now be free for everyone, but with Smash being as third-party focused as it is with DLC it won't be as easy to eventually let new players have the first few passes for free.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My ideal roster number? As high as possible while still providing a good game that isn't just Ultimate Deluxe.

What number is that? Uuuuuuh...

 

[Noipoi]

My ideal roster number? As high as possible while still providing a good game that isn't just Ultimate Deluxe.

What number is that? Uuuuuuh...

About tree fiddy

 

[Perkilator]

My ideal roster number? As high as possible while still providing a good game that isn't just Ultimate Deluxe.

What number is that? Uuuuuuh...

69

 

[Guynamednelson]

About tree fiddy

I have a feeling one of the fighters on this roster would be Lapras for some reason...

 

[ninjahmos]

If Eggman ever gets into Smash, I'd love to hear a new remix of Big Arms:

 

[Royaru]

Moving from EIH to "100 fighters" is definitely a fantastic promotional idea and I have no doubt that they really want to reach this amount for the base game. And it would make sense because let's not forget that Ultimate is the third best-selling Switch game with 35M, the next game must have a bigger budget to be able to afford that. And considering that Switch 2 is backwards compatible, you need something that will make everyone want to jump on to the next Smash.

Although I do think that many TP characters will not return in the base game due to the cost of licenses, I do think they will return as DLC as it happened in 4/For. I could also see it for FP characters that need changes, and even to give a unique moveset to some Echoes. For example Daisy with a moveset taken from Mario Wonder, Lucina with some of the weapons she received in Heroes, Dark Samus with attacks taken from Prime etc...

 

[fogbadge]

If Eggman ever gets into Smash, I'd love to hear a new remix of Big Arms:

nah just use the remix from generations

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If 69 unique fighters was almost too much to handle there's no way we're getting 100 in the next base game.

 

[Shinuto]

If 69 unique fighters was almost too much to handle there's no way we're getting 100 in the next base game.

We have 80 unique fighters if you lump in transformation characters as one single character and don't count echo fighters.

 

[Kirbeh]

Here's my hot take on the 100 characters thing.

If they actually go this route, they should cut all 3P characters from base game.

Just make them all DLC, allowing for actual significant changes to be made to those that need it and potentially allowing for a greater amount of content to be negotiated.

That leaves base game to focus fully on Nintendo IP and in turn, more opportunities for broader representation and deeper cuts that we see less often nowadays.

No, Spirits don't count. I want actual content like more music arrangements, stages and items even if a particular game/series doesn't necessarily get a fighter.

Ultimate understandably didn't have much wiggle room but I want to see more stages like your Hanenbows and Find Mii or Wrecking Crew. Same goes for the music department as the track selection is quite small for series without playable fighters.

People will no doubt be upset about having to buy certain characters again but the third parties make the most sense for this. They're guests with licensing costs, so make players pay for some of that.

After all, no matter how much some may complain, they're still going to turn around and buy Cloud or Sonic. (And if it's a finally reworked Sonic, even better.) I honestly think it's a fairer trade off either way.

The vacancies left by the third parties also allow for a pretty large selection of 1P newcomers to reach that 100. This would be the prime opportunity to fulfill more fan favorites and add from smaller or dormant/retired/retro IP.

You can add your contemporary picks like Ring Fit, the obligatory new Pokemon, etc. while still having plenty of room for the aforementioned fan favorite or deep cut picks.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We have 80 unique fighters if you lump in transformation characters as one single character and don't count echo fighters.

There were 69 numbered fighters in the base game, which is what I was referring to. If that was almost too much for the dev team, I don't think they'd be able to get 100 in the next base game.

 

[RileyXY1]

There were 69 numbered fighters in the base game, which is what I was referring to. If that was almost too much for the dev team, I don't think they'd be able to get 100 in the next base game.

And it already led to the devs having to sacrifice so much to make it happen. The game only had 11 newcomers and 4 new stages at launch, and out of those 11 newcomers 6 of them were clones.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If 69 unique fighters was almost too much to handle there's no way we're getting 100 in the next base game.

And that’s not even going over how the overall modes were treated as a result of this focus on having a huge roster.

All-Star Mode is just a shadow of its former glory while Stage Builder and Home-Run Contest had to be delayed to post-launch content.

A new game aiming for 100 would likely give the side modes even less focus.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And it already led to the devs having to sacrifice so much to make it happen. The game only had 11 newcomers and 4 new stages at launch, and out of those 11 newcomers 6 of them were clones.

To be fair, going from our current number of 82 to 100 would require 18 newcomers, so at least the newcomer roster wouldn't be a problem but uuuuuh.

Yeah they'd have to sacrifice basically everything else.

 

[Pupp135]

What's your ideal roster size for the next game? For me, there's 2 options:

Ultimate Deluxe/2: If they really are just gonna bring everyone back again, either as a Deluxe version or like a Smash 5.5, I say go all out and bump the roster up to 100. We're at 89 so far (counting echoes and transformations as separate characters), so the roster would only need 11 newcomers, which seems like a decent amount given past games (64 had 12, M had 14, B had 18, 4 had 17 in base, and U had 11 in base.)

New game: I think around 60-70 characters base game seems likely. Cut about half the roster and add 15-18 newcomers for a size in-between Post-DLC 4 (58) and Base Ultimate (76). Could also leave room for some reworked veterans. That way you could simplify and breathe new life into the roster while still keeping the large number of characters Smash is known for.

Ideally, I’d like to see everyone return on top of more fighters (let’s say 100 fighters counting echoes or 90ish before echoes), but that‘s not realistic given resource constraints and licensing.

Realistically, my hunch is that we’ll have 60-65 fighters give or take before echoes (so 65-70ish after echoes). This should give us 45-55 non-echo veterans and about 10-15 unique newcomers. While I do expect to see a heavy number of cuts (at least 25 non-echoes), I find it hard to imagine that the developers would reduce the roster to something smaller than base For. The numbers that I provided should be a good compromise between For and Ultimate as we are able to reuse some assets when creating veterans, and SSB6 presumably won’t be split between two systems, unless we somehow get a mobile game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

100 Fighters ? We'll need Echoes, clones and semi clones for that. I mean, we have 89 right now right? Count 7 more Koopalings and that's 96 already. That's an easy cheat.

Only add highly omissions as Dixie, Bandana Dee, Impa and a Sonic character or something and that's 100

It's not unthinkable. Building off from Ultimate at least.

Thinking away the 7 Koopalings, there are still quite obvious and easily realisable characters left.

Noah from XBC3
Isaac from Golden Sun
Ring Fit Trainer
Monster Hunter
A new Pokemon
Waluigi
And well why not Funky Kong?

I think its quite easy to envision.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think next game will only have a 50-60 character roster, with 14-18 of those being newcomers.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

100 Fighters ? We'll need Echoes, clones and semi clones for that. I mean, we have 89 right now right? Count 7 more Koopalings and that's 96 already. That's an easy cheat.

Only add highly omissions as Dixie, Bandana Dee, Impa and a Sonic character or something and that's 100

It's not unthinkable. Building off from Ultimate at least.

Thinking away the 7 Koopalings, there are still quite obvious and easily realisable characters left.

Noah from XBC3
Isaac from Golden Sun
Ring Fit Trainer
Monster Hunter
A new Pokemon
Waluigi
And well why not Funky Kong?

I think its quite easy to envision.

That reminds me of the whole "with Battlefield and Ω forms, Ultimate has 288 stages!" thing. Like, no it doesn't, but that is still a lot.

Still, bringing back all 82 fighters + Echo Fighters from Ultimate + even more on top of that is highly unlikely.

I think next game will only have a 50-60 character roster, with 14-18 of those being newcomers.

I agree, though it probably will be more like 10-12 newcomers since roster space is tight and I think 15 was as high as that number has gone historically.