Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Am not knowledgeable on Sonic in the slightest, but I do know there's some lore to suggest Sonic and Shadow are actual clones right?

Shadow was created long before Sonic was even born, so no.

Their only connection is Gerald Robotnik possibly using the ancient mural on Angel Island that depicts Super Sonic fighting Eggman's mech over the Master Emerald as a basis for Shadow's design as a hedgehog after the Biolizard was a failure.

 

[Jave]

On the topic of Bosses, you know what kind of Boss Fight I would like to see implemented in Smash? Something akin to the first Shredder fight in the SNES version of TMNT: Turtles in Time, where Shredder rides a vehicle from the front of the screen and you have to use the screen throw to hurt him.

I feel something like this could work in Smash with someone like Eggman or Dr. Wily. They're at the front of the screen firing missiles and lasers and stuff at you while you're fighting Miis, and you have to KO them from the top of the screen so they land at the front and damage the boss.

 

[SharkLord]

Completely anecdotal, but I remember Shadow being one of the most modded characters in Brawl from palette swap to model swap to moveset mods.

Along up there were the likes of and I believe .

Shadow just kinda feels like a missing piece there

If we're talking fanworks, he was also the guy in all the Flash animations. Probably didn't help that Tails and Knuckles weren't given truly distinct Super Forms, just the blinking lights. Or maybe it's because he was actually allowed to be important the the era after the Adventure games. Or perhaps it's his Vegeta-like rival status and 2000's edge.

Or maybe it's because his Hedgehog status means you can slap a million quill-hair pieces on him and call it a fan form

 

[BritishGuy54]

If the next game has major cuts (30+), how many veterans do you think we'll get as DLC? We got 3 veterans as DLC in 4, making up a little under half the DLC roster. Ultimate had a release schedule of 5 DLC in 2019, 4 in 2020 (though that's probably due to covid), and 3/4 in 2021 (depends on how you count pythra). Assuming that this game gets the usual 2-3 year support cycle that Nintendo games get, how many DLC characters do you think we'd get and how many would be veterans?

Anywhere between 0 and 4 if we have 12 DLC characters total. I’d be okay even not having veterans come back as DLC if it means new faces get a chance to shine.

 

[RouffWestie]

On the topic of Bosses, you know what kind of Boss Fight I would like to see implemented in Smash? Something akin to the first Shredder fight in the SNES version of TMNT: Turtles in Time, where Shredder rides a vehicle from the front of the screen and you have to use the screen throw to hurt him.

I feel something like this could work in Smash with someone like Eggman or Dr. Wily. They're at the front of the screen firing missiles and lasers and stuff at you while you're fighting Miis, and you have to KO them from the top of the screen so they land at the front and damage the boss.

Yes, 100x This. This was a hype unique boss fight, and translates to Smash perfectly. turning the Screen KO into an legitimate necessary mechanic would be a cool way to push casual players to learn a bit more about the nuances of their character's movesets. And I know they could just look up online, but come on, that's way less fun.

 

[fogbadge]

Why would Boss Eggman and Fighter Eggman share animation? You never fight a giant Eggman in the Sonic games.

you said assets as well as animations. why is it hard to believe that an eggman, in a smaller mech or by himself would use similar weapons as a boss sized robot?

I mean I guess so since Tails is basically the Luigi to Sonic’s Mario but also, from the outside looking in, Knuckles and Shadow both seem a lot more popular with the Sonic fandom.

once they had a poll where tails came in 3rd overall behind sonic and grumpy. i mean shadow

 

[Gorgonzales]

Should they make air dodging even more like Melee so you can have the ability to wavedash?

Doesn't have to be wavedashing specifically but I really think the series could use a good microspacing tool like it again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Doesn't have to be wavedashing specifically but I really think the series could use a good microspacing tool like it again.

Might as well be the wavedash then.

But most of all what I want back is L Canceling.

Both would be a pipe dream.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But most of all what I want back is L Canceling.

I'd agree if SSBU didn't decrease landing lag on all aerials to the point where it's comparable to someone who can land L-cancels 100% of the time.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd agree if SSBU didn't decrease landing lag on all aerials to the point where it's comparable to someone who can land L-cancels 100% of the time.

Yeah, L-Canceling is a bad mechanic because it just ups the skill barrier.

Ironically the things that make wave dashing a good mechanic prove L-Canceling is bad. Wavedashing is another option in your tool kit. You don't always want to do it and it has unique advantages and disadvantages. Sometimes you should run. Sometimes you should walk. Sometimes you should wavedash. It fits nicely in your skill set.

L-Canceling is just something you always want to do. There is no time when you want to avoid L-Canceling. It's a blatant upgrade. It just adds a technical barrier to the game without actually enhancing the experience. Lowering the landing lag for all moves like Ultimate was the way to go.

 

[Oracle Link]

Do you have a specific Deku Tree in mind? I assume you mean OOT

I mean OOT/ EOW is pretty recent!

 

[Wonder Smash]

Man, all this talk about which Sonic character should be the next playable character...knowing full well that the whole crew would be playable if this was SEGA's own crossover fighter.

Oh, the potential...

 

[Gengar84]

Man, all this talk about which Sonic character should be the next playable character...knowing full well that the whole crew would be playable if this was SEGA's own crossover fighter.

Oh, the potential...

Yeah, I’d love to see other companies try their hand at their own Smash style game. Unfortunately, most haven’t had a ton of success other than Smash itself. Microsoft owns a lot of IP I like so they could be a fun option too. I think Square-Enix has enough to work with to fill out a whole game’s roster pretty easily too. And that’s before going into non game IP and companies for other Smash style games.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Man, all this talk about which Sonic character should be the next playable character...knowing full well that the whole crew would be playable if this was SEGA's own crossover fighter.

Oh, the potential...

You sure about that? Because this is a forum for a game that doesn't have every single main Mario character playable.

 

[Ivander]

You sure about that? Because this is a forum for a game that doesn't have every single main Mario character playable.

Toad, Toadette and Nabbit will get their chance someday. Then we'll have all the main-game Mario characters playable.

 

[Oracle Link]

Speaking of a "own Crossover Fighter" We really need some smash spinoffs focused arround Mario, Zelda and the like! With only one franchise and maybe 1 or 2 fitting guests (from obscure nintendo games) Sure those games wouldnt be as hype but its the perfect way to please certain smash fans!
Honestly a zelda smash would make me happier than 3 zelda characters in regular smash!

 

[Ivander]

Speaking of a "own Crossover Fighter" We really need some smash spinoffs focused arround Mario, Zelda and the like! With only one franchise and maybe 1 or 2 fitting guests (from obscure nintendo games) Sure those games wouldnt be as hype but its the perfect way to please certain smash fans!
Honestly a zelda smash would make me happier than 3 zelda characters in regular smash!

We really don't need Smash games for each series. Especially when the main games are already enough work. Also...
looks at Hyrule Warriors

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If everybody does Smash, it becomes less special.

 

[Gengar84]

We really don't need Smash games for each series. Especially when the main games are already enough work. Also...
looks at Hyrule Warriors

I think more Warriors spin-offs would be awesome though. One example that would be really cool is a Pokemon Warriors games set during one of the great Pokemon wars like the one AZ talked about in Gen 6. Or some ancient feudal Japan Pokemon war kind of like Pokemon Conquest.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I want a Sonic warriors game, it would give Sonics friends a better chance to shine.

 

[Oracle Link]

We really don't need Smash games for each series. Especially when the main games are already enough work. Also...
looks at Hyrule Warriors

Hyrule Warriors has a completly diffrent Gameplay from Smash sure its fun and also has good multiplayer however its missing the Dreamfight component from smash completly if they somehow add a custom mode i could maybe say its adequate!

But Consindering we have neither A Zelda MAker, Nor A fighter, Nor enough action figures i really need to somehow make my own lil zelda stories!
I live and breathe zelda! And i like telling stories through Fighting game fights! I dunno its fun!

Also hyrule warriors is still missing a lot of 2d Rep and playable enemys and regular bosses Tbh!

Now a Hyrule warriors 2 would still be neat dont get me wrong!

 

[ninjahmos]

If everybody does Smash, it becomes less special.

Yeah, and if there's one thing I think Smash is known for, it's novelty. Smash originally started out by mixing Nintendo's most popular franchises (Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, etc.) with their more obscure ones (Mother/EarthBound, F-Zero, Star Fox, etc.), and people loved that.

I may or may not have said this before, but the Super Smash Bros. series actually introduced me to a lot of these franchises, and they've always piqued my interest. In fact, they actually made me want to play them.

 

[fogbadge]

I want a Sonic warriors game, it would give Sonics friends a better chance to shine.

yes

 

[Freduardo]

Speaking of a "own Crossover Fighter" We really need some smash spinoffs focused arround Mario, Zelda and the like! With only one franchise and maybe 1 or 2 fitting guests (from obscure nintendo games) Sure those games wouldnt be as hype but its the perfect way to please certain smash fans!
Honestly a zelda smash would make me happier than 3 zelda characters in regular smash!

This is still the future of Smash I want.

Have the base game "Ultimate" with the current crazy roster. Just make it so it can import up to 75 characters from "other Smash games on the console's memory."

So Switch 2 comes out.

Ultimate DX comes out close to launch (add the dlc, add some echoes, add the mii costumes, add some stages.... And if you really want to get easy sales, just pop back in a port of Subspace Emissary.)

Six months Later "Smash Bros: Mushroom Kingdom" comes out with a a predictable amount of overlap characters... but also just way more mario characters (that can be imported into the main game after unlocking them) and a single player similar to Melee's Adventure Mode (basically some platformer levels to evoke the mario experience)

Six months later: "Smash Bros: Hyrule"

Six months later: "Smash Bros: Space Mercenaries" (Metroid, Star Fox, Kid Icarus, and F-Zero)

Six months later: "Smash Bros: Pokemon"

Six months later: "Smash Bros: Tactics" (Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, solo play mode is an srpg/fighter like Project X Zone)

And so on.

 

[Perkilator]

I want a Sonic warriors game, it would give Sonics friends a better chance to shine.

Honestly? Sonic Forces would’ve lent itself better to the Warriors formula than the Boost formula.

 

[BuckleyTim]

It's funny how everyone seems to want Hyrule warriors with different series, given that with HW2 and 3H it feels like Koei is moving in the opposite direction, going for less of a whole series approach and just going with 1 game with more-ish focus on the plot.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I don't want another Warriors game for a franchise.

I want Dynasty Warios where every historical figure is Wario

 

[Gengar84]

It's funny how everyone seems to want Hyrule warriors with different series, given that with HW2 and 3H it feels like Koei is moving in the opposite direction, going for less of a whole series approach and just going with 1 game with more-ish focus on the plot.

I personally prefer the wider series approach compared to focusing on just one game. The first Fire Emblem Warriors was kind of disappointing in that way too as it focused a bit too much on Fates.

 

[fogbadge]

It's funny how everyone seems to want Hyrule warriors with different series, given that with HW2 and 3H it feels like Koei is moving in the opposite direction, going for less of a whole series approach and just going with 1 game with more-ish focus on the plot.

In fairness Three Hopes was originally planned as Fire Emblem Warriors 2 so I don’t think they’re against the idea

I don't want another Warriors game for a franchise.

I want Dynasty Warios where every historical figure is Wario

I’ll take it

 

[Ivander]

If everybody does Smash, it becomes less special.

It does, but I wish some other companies would be more open to doing their own crossover takes, and didn't just go the simple, but lazy mobile turn-based RPG route. I still enjoy playing Multiversus, but man, sometimes I wish it was Sega IPs or Konami IPs instead.

I don't want another Warriors game for a franchise.

I want Dynasty Warios where every historical figure is Wario

Finally, the real-life Musou game featuring lazy nobles having their soldiers do all the work and taking the credit for their achievements while leaving the soldiers with crippling debt and PTSD.

 

[Louie G.]

Back on the topic of Sonic and Sega, I would really like Sonic to get a second character in Smash but it is sort of a shame that it tends to cannibalize discussion of other Sega characters. It comes around every so often but I think say, in contrast to Capcom, you don’t hear much resistance toward a second Sonic character over prospecting new series the way you do concern about Chun-Li over Monster Hunter, DMC etc.

Personally I’d be hella game to see Sega and Capcom get two new characters next game, one from a currently represented series and one from a new one. Whatever those may be. I don’t really care much about trying to do a company balancing act when you have some partners like Sega and Capcom that just have a wealth of valuable, individually merited choices.

…I have my preferences, if it isn’t obvious, but anything from Puyo to Yakuza to SMT, classical picks like Axel Stone or more specific, overlooked pulls like Sakura Wars are cool in my book.

 

[Gengar84]

Back on the topic of Sonic and Sega, I would really like Sonic to get a second character in Smash but it is sort of a shame that it tends to cannibalize discussion of other Sega characters. It comes around every so often but I think say, in contrast to Capcom, you don’t hear much resistance toward a second Sonic character over prospecting new series the way you do concern about Chun-Li over Monster Hunter, DMC etc.

Personally I’d be hella game to see Sega and Capcom get two new characters next game, one from a currently represented series and one from a new one. Whatever those may be. I don’t really care much about trying to do a company balancing act when you have some partners like Sega and Capcom that just have a wealth of valuable, individually merited choices.

…I have my preferences, if it isn’t obvious, but anything from Puyo to Yakuza to SMT, classical picks like Axel Stone or more specific, overlooked pulls like Sakura Wars are cool in my book.

I’m actually not super familiar with many SEGA properties. I love the Persona series and I played a bit of Sonic as a kid and Streets of Rage 4 somewhat recently but beyond that, not much. I’d love to see Mitsuru or Kanji from Persona but they don’t exactly have a great chance. My favorite character from SoR4 is Estel Aguirre but she’s got even less of a chance. Axel or Blaze would still be cool though. I bought SMTV and Metaphor but haven’t had the time to play either yet. Other more minor SEGA characters like Vectorman or Nights would be cool too and I like their designs.

 

[Wonder Smash]

You sure about that? Because this is a forum for a game that doesn't have every single main Mario character playable.

Like which character? Because so far, it does have every main Mario character that's expected.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Toad, Toadette and Nabbit will get their chance someday. Then we'll have all the main-game Mario characters playable.

What about Captain Toad?
He was playable in 3D World for a few levels.

 

[Gengar84]

Like which character? Because so far, it does have every main Mario character that's expected.

I think Toad is the most obvious omission. He’s been playable since Super Mario Bros. 2 and is pretty heavily featured throughout the series. I think the only thing keeping him from being playable already is that he’s part of Peach’s moveset but they can always change that.

 

[fogbadge]

I think Toad is the most obvious omission. He’s been playable since Super Mario Bros. 2 and is pretty heavily featured throughout the series. I think the only thing keeping him from being playable already is that he’s part of Peach’s moveset but they can always change that.

id call it a glaring omission

 

[chocolatejr9]

Like which character? Because so far, it does have every main Mario character that's expected.

Toad/Toadette, Pauline, Nabbit might count, Goomba and Koopa if you want more generic enemies, quite a few actually.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think Toad is the most obvious omission. He’s been playable since Super Mario Bros. 2 and is pretty heavily featured throughout the series. I think the only thing keeping him from being playable already is that he’s part of Peach’s moveset but they can always change that.

Well, even though that could change, I never expected Toad to be playable because of that reason.

Though, still, I don't see how Toad not being playable in Smash is the equivalent to Eggman not being playable in a SEGA crossover fighting game.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think the only thing keeping him from being playable already is that he’s part of Peach’s moveset but they can always change that.

I'd argue the thing that's keeping him out is that Sakurai just....doesn't see him "dancing" in his mind as a fighter and hasn't since 2001 in spite of playable appearances the species has had starting with New Soup Wii.

The Toad Guard move is more or less Sakurai putting Toad in a role he feels works rather than a reason why he hasn't been upgraded since. Because let's face it, if Sakurai actually wanted Toad as a fighter, he'd just replace the move with something else since moves get changed out or tweaked among different characters each iteration.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nabbit always seemed like a New Super Luigi U character, but with his appearance in Super Mario Bros. Wonder, perhaps he might become a staple character. It would be interesting to see what they would do with his moveset.