Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Still think it kinda has to be Sans, his popularity is far and away the greatest and he already has roots in Smash / Sakurai acknowledged him as a notable request. It's too early for anyone from Deltarune until the game formally drops, and even then Undertale has nearly a decade of persisting impact and popularity. I think the odds of getting an Undertale character are quite good relative to other third parties, especially those from the west, but I can see us getting more major nonplayable content too like an AT or a stage. In some way or another I anticipate it will have a bigger presence in Smash next game.



I think this should be a much bigger takeaway than Okami. Amaterasu still has many other prominent Capcom characters challenging her opportunity at a place on the roster - I've always felt Okami's cult classic status ought to put it in the conversation, but when your competitors are Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, I think we need to work down the Capcom ladder a bit more first. But maybe her striking visual quality and moveset potential would give her the boost, not sure.

Elden Ring on the other hand... I firmly believe some From Soft property is the most sensible next-in-line for Namco, and I've felt that way for a good while. Although up to this point I've been pretty sure it would still be Dark Souls, and now I'm teetering more 50/50. The longer we go without a new Smash, the more Elden Ring expands and takes center stage here. I still think Dark Souls is more likely right now off its own legacy... Elden Ring largely works as an extension of this, but this could very well be a Joker scenario where they just want to celebrate such an attention-grabbing new presence. But I do think this is one of the most valuable observations from TGA about what the future may hold.

Obviously with stuff like this, it's irresponsible to go in and say oh new game means Smash character etc. Hayabusa for example, I think is about as likely as he's ever been with or without the new game. It's a well needed boost for the Ninja Gaiden brand, but if Nintendo has any intention to work with Koei Tecmo then it was always going to be him anyway. But if we're seeing an IP like Elden Ring continue to persist and demand so much attention and respect within the industry, then that's a more valuable takeaway to start adapting your perspective to the current climate and keep your finger on the pulse.

What’s interesting is that the trailer for the new Elden Ring game seemingly confirms that it exists in the same universe as Dark Souls, as a Dark Souls III boss was shown to be returning.

So both series could theoretically be represented in Smash.

I wasn't a fan of Elden Ring, but I'm curious. Would you go with the Tarnished? Or would you use a named character like Ranni or Malenia?

Typically I prefer a series first be represented by the player character, but the Tarnished is such a nothing character (even more so than other avatar characters in Smash) and the bosses are a huge part of the games appeal and identit, I’d personally love for it to be Melenia.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

What’s interesting is that the trailer for the new Elden Ring game seemingly confirms that it exists in the same universe as Dark Souls, as a Dark Souls III boss was shown to be returning.View attachment 396886So both series could theoretically be represented in Smash.

Typically I prefer a series first be represented by the player character, but the Tarnished is such a nothing character (even more so than other avatar characters in Smash) and the bosses are a huge part of the games appeal and identit, I’d personally love for it to be Melenia.

Malenia would be so awesome. Tho I wonder how would her second form even be implemented in smash?

Umm, you know since she is kind of naked .

Hopefully the next smash game goes back to the Teen rating like in brawl so stuff like this is less of an issue.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm actually working on the Konami section of the big third party poll right now. (Thank you Speed Weed )

Looking at the IPs, the biggest remaining IP are Bomberman, Silent Hill and Suikoden.

I’m a big Contra fan so seeing Bill and Lance would be a dream but in my heart of hearts I know it should be Bomberman.

 

[Ivander]

It's up there but I think it's a tier below.

Quite honestly, I would switch Contra and Suikoden. And I say this as someone who really likes Suikoden. Contra has at least been getting new games still(it's recent main game being Operation Galuga and it recently got a VR Game or Collab). Suikoden's last main game was in 2006 on the PS2, it's last actual game was in 2012 on the PSP and the HD Remaster is coming out next year. Heck, Suikoden didn't even get any Pachislot games between it's last release and the HD Remaster. The only Pachislot game it got was in 2011, a year before it's last game release.

 

[cashregister9]

What’s interesting is that the trailer for the new Elden Ring game seemingly confirms that it exists in the same universe as Dark Souls, as a Dark Souls III boss was shown to be returning.View attachment 396886So both series could theoretically be represented in Smash.

Typically I prefer a series first be represented by the player character, but the Tarnished is such a nothing character (even more so than other avatar characters in Smash) and the bosses are a huge part of the games appeal and identit, I’d personally love for it to be Melenia.

This new Elden Ring I am pretty sure is entirely non-canon, so I imagine that this has no bearing on any sort of story-based representation

 

[Speed Weed]

Quite honestly, I would switch Contra and Suikoden. And I say this as someone who really likes Suikoden. Contra has at least been getting new games still(it's recent main game being Operation Galuga and it recently got a VR Game or Collab). Suikoden's last main game was in 2006 on the PS2, it's last actual game was in 2012 on the PSP and the HD Remaster is coming out next year. Heck, Suikoden didn't even get any Pachislot games between it's last release and the HD Remaster. The only Pachislot game it got was in 2011, a year before it's last game release.

Honestly if we were going purely off of legacy I don't think either stack up to stuff like Bemani, Tokimeki Memorial, even Gradius, etc

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This talk about Dark Souls or Elden Ring potentially being an option suddenly made me remember the old DLC leaks that weren't true that included Artorias. I believe it was Google Theory or whatever, where typing in certain characters gave you the Smash website as a result, so people thought FP1 was gonna be Joker, Banjo, Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa, and Artorias?

 

[Stratos]

I'm actually working on the Konami section of the big third party poll right now. (Thank you Speed Weed )

Looking at the IPs, the biggest remaining IP are Bomberman, Silent Hill and Suikoden.

The truth is that Pyramid Head is one of the Konami characters I would like as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[Ivander]

Honestly if we were going purely off of legacy I don't think either stack up to stuff like Bemani, Tokimeki Memorial, even Gradius, etc

Legacy as in number of games? Or Legacy as in reception and impact?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It's all a moot point when a character from Momotaro Denentetsu somehow gets into the next SSB.

"Peach Boy choo-choo-choo-ses Smash" will be a surprising splash screen, but an oddly appropriate one.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

This talk about Dark Souls or Elden Ring potentially being an option suddenly made me remember the old DLC leaks that weren't true that included Artorias. I believe it was Google Theory or whatever, where typing in certain characters gave you the Smash website as a result, so people thought FP1 was gonna be Joker, Banjo, Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa, and Artorias?

I just got hit by a flashbang and a lot of memories through reading this post because I remember Google Theory pretty well. I feel like all that leak told us was that we shouldn't be using SEO for Smash Bros leaks because Google Theory didn't turn out to be true at all.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Oh, it’s just been confirmed that Elden Ring has sold over 28.6 million copies, making it the 28th best selling video game. It’s also the best selling non Nintendo Japanese video game, very impressive.

Malenia would be so awesome. Tho I wonder how would her second form even be implemented in smash?

Umm, you know since she is kind of naked .

Hopefully the next smash game goes back to the Teen rating like in brawl so stuff like this is less of an issue.

I mean Bayonetta is kind of naked when using wicked weaves, and they managed to make it work in Smash.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Oh, it’s just been confirmed that Elden Ring has sold over 28.6 million copies, making it the 28th best selling video game. It’s also the best selling non Nintendo Japanese video game, very impressive.



I mean Bayonetta is kind of naked when using wicked weaves, and they managed to make it work in Smash.

Yeah I guess that’s fair. I guess they just make the little bit of scarlet rot covering her a little bit more noticeable and maybe that works good enough.

 

[dream1ng]

If Smash wants Elden Ring, they better act fast if Sony is looking to scoop up Kadokawa. Potentially Dark Souls as well, but the co-ownership with Namco makes that one more complicated.

All that said, I do think Elden Ring will be the "see, we get the big third-parties too!" game from the company previously not that close to Nintendo that they land for Switch 2 launch. Like the Bethesda stuff last time.

 

[Speed Weed]

Legacy as in number of games? Or Legacy as in reception and impact?

The latter

It's all a moot point when a character from Momotaro Denentetsu somehow gets into the next SSB.

"Peach Boy choo-choo-choo-ses Smash" will be a surprising splash screen, but an oddly appropriate one.

****. This is the way

 

[Ivander]

The latter

I would say Contra is still pretty high on that regard because of the reception of the original, Contra III and Contra Hard Corp, how it popularised the Konami Code(due to the 30 lives it gave), despite Gradius being the origin for it, and how it helped form and set the basis for future 2D shoot-em-ups and Co-op shoot-em-ups. Sure, it had a rough middle with hits and misses, but Contra's future seems steady after Contra Returns and Operation Galuga.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It would be nice to have Black Panther and Amaterasu from Okami appear and fight each other in a Smash Bris. game, to me, at least.

Please inform the Rabbi that I'm not interested in getting the Smash Bris.

After Solid Snake, Simon Belmont and Richter Belmont, it is logical to think that the next Konami character that could come as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series is Bomberman Bill Rizer.

Fixed.

Which would be the better Final Smash for Sans?

To be honest though, Sans would make a better AT than a Fighter.

 

[Louie G.]

I love Contra, it's one of my favorite NES games, but for whatever reason I can't get myself that excited about the prospect of it being in Smash. It's one of those cases where I guess I don't think a game being fun in and of itself offers a moveset or a roster presence that I would find fun. Bill Rizer is kind of a Rambo type character which may stand out in Smash, to be honest, but is not especially an archetype that interests me. As a character I find him quite boring.

I'd love to hear some Contra remixes in Smash, though. And frankly even a stage would be pretty great... maybe controversial, but I'd even take a scrolling Waterfall stage akin to Icicle Mountain or Rumble Falls. At the end of the day I'd probably be into all of it, but I wish I was more into the protagonist.

As far as legacy run and guns go for Smash, my heart lies with Metal Slug. I think it's got way more character in its visual design and weapon variety, and I'd love to see how expressive someone like Marco or Fio could get in Smash. I'm also a bit more certain that Metal Slug would be on the radar after Terry than I am with Contra and Konami, the competition is pretty steep there although I'm not sure exactly what I'd expect. Even within the realm of Konami SHMUP though I would say Gradius or Twinbee would be more exciting / refreshing to see implemented in some way.

 

[dream1ng]

I feel some cases with third-parties are framed as if we have to keep going with certain companies until we get to that character. Like, that they must keep adding characters from x company. But they don't.

If we get to a point where all the bigger names are there, that company can just sit on the bench with their existing representation for the foreseeable future, rather than dip into some b or c-tier. Because there will still be bigger options elsewhere, from other third-parties.

Like, even if a series would be next in line after we get x, y and z, that doesn't mean it would actually get in... it might just be niche to the point they've sort of exhausted what they want from the company, at least at a playable level.

Not to mention Ultimate will likely be the only time in the series all third parties are included concurrently. When you start dipping into the likes of b or c-tier series from certain third-parties, you're also up against the fact that previously cut third-parties will be very demanded as well, and have to balance those in the equation.

So yeah, some characters might be next in line after some others, but the line might never actually get there, if the characters/series themselves are punching kinda low comparatively. Or at least, not for a very long time.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Bill Riser also kind of falls into the camp of "characters that people will definitely find annoying once added".

Paradoxically I also kinda foresee people arguing that Bill's gun mechanics should be how Samus works assuming she doesn't change at all due to them both having 8-directional shooting.

 

[Ivander]

I love Contra, it's one of my favorite NES games, but for whatever reason I can't get myself that excited about the prospect of it being in Smash. It's one of those cases where I guess I don't think a game being fun in and of itself offers a moveset or a roster presence that I would find fun. Bill Rizer is kind of a Rambo type character which may stand out in Smash, to be honest, but is not especially an archetype that interests me. As a character I find him quite boring.

Well funny enough, Lance Bean was the one based around Sylvester Stallone's Rambo(though he also took a bit from Billy from Predator) while Bill was based more around Arnold Schwarzenegger/Dutch Schaefer from Predator, which ironically enough came after Contra on Arcade and would influence their design for the NES version and future games.

 

[DarthEnderX]

while Bill was based more around Arnold Schwarzenegger/Dutch Schaefer from Predator, which ironically enough came after Contra on Arcade and would influence their design for the NES version and future games.

I believe Bill was based more around Arnold Schwarzenegger/John Matrix from Commando.

 

[Ivander]

I believe Bill was based more around Arnold Schwarzenegger/John Matrix from Commando.

Commando was an inspiration(alongside Rambo and Aliens), but Bill definitely took more from Dutch, especially when both Bill and Lance's poses in the NES art are one-to-one to two of Arnold's scenes in Predator(both his Commando and Predator looks are very similar yes, including the face paint. But the NES poses are 100% from Predator).

 

[SharkLord]

Just a question, Kadokawa's being obtained by Sony as a whole and not just the game division, right? Sony owns Aniplex separately from Sony Interactive Entertainment, and that subsidiary's published a good few Switch games. Unless interviews or insiders or something said that Kadokawa's gaming subsidiaries are being merged into SIE, I'll reserve judgement on Elden Ring in Smash until we see how the Kadokawa merger is handled.

 

[Ivander]

Just a question, Kadokawa's being obtained by Sony as a whole and not just the game division, right? Sony owns Aniplex separately from Sony Interactive Entertainment, and that subsidiary's published a good few Switch games. Unless interviews or insiders or something said that Kadokawa's gaming subsidiaries are being merged into SIE, I'll reserve judgement on Elden Ring in Smash until we see how the Kadokawa merger is handled.

Yeah, I think it was as a whole. Which means besides Acquire(the makers of Octopath Traveler and the latest Mario & Luigi), whatever developers do the RPG Maker games and potentially From Software, I think Sony also gets Gamera.

 

[Stratos]

Fixed.

Bill Rizer is one of the characters in Vampire Survivors which as far as I know is not a Konami's video game.

 

[Folezicle Lives!]

What's people's thoughts on a salmon run inspired moveset for Mr Grizz in the next smash. Similar to dunk hunt dog but spawns enemies

I'm just trying to think who would you add that was introduced in Splatoon 2 or 3?

Splatoon: Who Is Mr. Grizz?

There's more to Mr. Grizz than anyone could've imagined, and here's everything you need to know about this mysterious corporate employer,

www.dualshockers.com

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm just trying to think who would you add that was introduced in Splatoon 2 or 3?

Yo. I recently did a big poll about stuff like this.

If you're going to include any Splatoon character that specifically debuted from 2 or 3, Off the Hook is the right answer. The Splatoon idols are among the most popular Splatoon characters in general. On the Splatoon section of my poll, only Octoling and DJ Octavio managed to compete with them. Mr. Grizz is the next most popular character after the idols, but there's a huge drop off. Like... Frye got 76 votes. Mr. Grizz couldn't even beat that.

 

[Folezicle Lives!]

Yo. I recently did a big poll about stuff like this.



If you're going to include any Splatoon character that specifically debuted from 2 or 3, Off the Hook is the right answer. The Splatoon idols are among the most popular Splatoon characters in general. On the Splatoon section of my poll, only Octoling and DJ Octavio managed to compete with them. Mr. Grizz is the next most popular character after the idols, but there's a huge drop off. Like... Frye got 76 votes. Mr. Grizz couldn't even beat that.

Ah interesting off the hook would be cool. How would their moveset work?


Another idea for a character is Koraidon/Miraidon for Scarlett/Violet rep might be one of the rare opportunities to have a dragon pokemon which plays a significant role as a newcomer

 

[fogbadge]

It's all a moot point when a character from Momotaro Denentetsu somehow gets into the next SSB.

"Peach Boy choo-choo-choo-ses Smash" will be a surprising splash screen, but an oddly appropriate one.

wouldn't they just leave his name as momotaro

 

[Garteam]

I've never really been a fan of including DJ Octavio or one of the idols over Octoling as a Splatoon rep. I think it really just comes down to Octoling being an actual playable character.

Maybe if Octoling couldn't do anything unique from Inkling or if Splatoon had a greater emphasis on supporting characters in gameplay, I would be more open to going down a different route. However, so long as Splatoon is an online third-person shooter with two games worth of unrepped weapons, I can't really see another option not feeling weird.

 

[Dinoman96]

Long time since I've been here.

Okami is back!!
Is Ammy actually a possibility this time around?

Would be amazing, though I'm already overjoyed just by the impossible sequel actually happening.

I suppose anything is possible as long as they're a video game character, but yes I do second the notion that it seems likelier that Nintendo would go for characters from Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, Street Fighter, etc for another Capcom character. Ammy definitely feels like someone that would need specific levels of fan demand to get in like Banjo and Bayonetta, but sadly I don't feel she's quite up there.

 

[fogbadge]

I suppose anything is possible as long as they're a video game character

and that’s where things get iffy

 

[chocolatejr9]

Just a question, Kadokawa's being obtained by Sony as a whole and not just the game division, right? Sony owns Aniplex separately from Sony Interactive Entertainment, and that subsidiary's published a good few Switch games. Unless interviews or insiders or something said that Kadokawa's gaming subsidiaries are being merged into SIE, I'll reserve judgement on Elden Ring in Smash until we see how the Kadokawa merger is handled.

Assuming it goes through, then yes: Sony will acquire everything. In fact, that was one of the main conditions of it: originally, Sony only cared for the gaming and anime sides of the company, but Kadokawa insisted on an "all or nothing" sort of deal. It's also why everybody is concerned about it, as that would DEFINITELY give Sony a monopoly, mainly in regards to anime distribution (we all saw what happened to Funimation and Crunchyroll): say what you will about the ActiBlizz buyout, but at least that company ONLY did video games.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ah interesting off the hook would be cool. How would their moveset work?


Another idea for a character is Koraidon/Miraidon for Scarlett/Violet rep might be one of the rare opportunities to have a dragon pokemon which plays a significant role as a newcomer

I kinda think Garchomp is overlooked as it's one of the few popular prominent Pokemon that stood the test of time and is still decently marketed, popular and iconic.

I kinda feel the same way about Lyn from Fire Emblem 7. Not the most recent pick, but a popular pick regardless and a timeless one.

Definitely not expecting them however.

As for Amaterasu, I do think she's kinda likely myself. Not before Monster Hunter, but I always could envision a very good double reveal trailer with both these characters because of the thematics matching somewhat. Hunter vs animal. I do hope they can get in both.

In general am expecting more newcomers from "safe" third party developers as Namco, Capcom, Sega and maybe Square anyway. So there's that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Bill Rizer is one of the characters in Vampire Survivors which as far as I know is not a Konami's video game.

It's a crossover. He and Lance are from Contra.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

I suppose anything is possible as long as they're a video game character

Watch Sakurai find a loop hole to get Playstation's Spiderman to be the final character in the next smash.

 

[Stratos]

Bill Rizer is one of the characters in Vampire Survivors which as far as I know is not a Konami's video game.

Fixed.

It's a crossover. He and Lance are from Contra.

I've put mine as an example of the mistake I made. However, yes, Bill Rizer wouldn't be bad for a newcomer, besides I remember how many times I used to play Contra 1. Therefore, I have four Konami characters that I would like to see as newcomers, Bill Rizer, Bomberman, Pyramid Head and Black Panther from the Konami arcade video game of the same name.

 

[Stratos]

This is invalid.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I love Contra, it's one of my favorite NES games, but for whatever reason I can't get myself that excited about the prospect of it being in Smash. It's one of those cases where I guess I don't think a game being fun in and of itself offers a moveset or a roster presence that I would find fun. Bill Rizer is kind of a Rambo type character which may stand out in Smash, to be honest, but is not especially an archetype that interests me. As a character I find him quite boring.

Are you only just going by the NES Contra games? Because if so then, yeah, that's not enough to get out of the characters and series. Much like the case with Simon, they most likely will have to use elements from later games to make the character work.

Also, Bill is more Schwarzeneggar while Lance is more Stallone (Rambo). I grew up on their movies, so seeing characters like that in Smash is very appealing to me.