Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

It's really tough to say because Fire Emblem can go in so many directions. I'm going to cover Byleth as well because I think he's in a similar boat.

Fire Emblem's individual fighters are quite popular and the series itself is a major, flagship Nintendo IP (even if Engage felt like a misstep commercially). That being said, 6 unique fighters is a lot for any franchise and basically every FE rep that isn't Marth is an outdated promotional character to some extent, so we'll very likely see some cuts.

is guaranteed. is basically the face of Echo Fighters as a concept, so she'll return if echoes do. I largely agree that is too derivative and unimportant in his series to realistically make the base roster. is tied to Roy. has been in the game for a decade without their popularity ever being rehabilitated and Fates is kind of a divisive and arbitrary game to represent Fire Emblem in 2024.

Ike, Robin, and Byleth are all really tough because they have a lot of merit behind their inclusion:

• received the most focus of any Fire Emblem character that wasn't Marth in Ultimate's pre-release, has the longest legacy in Smash, and he's (arguably) the most popular pre-3DS era Fire Emblem character internationally.
• was the first real Avatar in Fire Emblem, represents tomes and the weapon durability mechanic, and his game saved and revolutionized the series.
• is from the best-selling game in the series, represents the weapon triangle and the general idea of strategically employing specialized options in response to certain actions from the enemy, and he's the most popular competitively.

It's tough to prioritize them, but I would roughly say >>, although it's pretty minor.

Marth (and Lucina, if echoes return) and one of Ike, Robin, and Byleth are a guaranteed minimum. Marth/Lucina and two of the beforementioned three is our most likely outcome. All four (plus Lucina) is our ceiling.

Yeah, my prediction for returning Fire Emblem vets are Marth, Lucina, Ike, Robin, and Byleth. I suspect that Roy, Chrom, and Corrin won’t make the cut in the next game. I think your analysis is pretty spot on.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

What character isn't as guaranteed as people think. An example that I could have is Mewtwo since he doesn't have the best track record of staying in the roster.

 

[Gengar84]

What character isn't as guaranteed as people think. An example that I could have is Mewtwo since he doesn't have the best track record of staying in the roster.

I think my most controversial cut on my roster was Jigglypuff. I’d love for her to stay but we may need to start trimming the Pokémon roster a bit if we want newcomers from the series. Jigglypuff has the advantage of being a member of the original 12, which could very well mean she’ll always come back but I don’t think it’s guaranteed. She hasn’t really been promoted as much as the other Pokemon in Smash so I could see it going either way.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I think my most controversial cut on my roster was Jigglypuff. I’d love for her to stay but we may need to start trimming the Pokémon roster a bit if we want newcomers from the series. Jigglypuff has the advantage of being a member of the original 12, which could very well mean she’ll always come back but I don’t think it’s guaranteed. She hasn’t really been promoted as much as the other Pokemon in Smash so I could see it going either way.

Jigglypuff also had a close call in Brawl but it was added back near the end of development alongside Toon Link and Wolf.

Not every game has their first group of characters in every installment with a notable example being Mario Kart where DKJr stopped really appearing after Super Mario Kart (Tour using its original sprite is an exception). Koopa isn't playable in 3 games despite being there from the start.

 

[fogbadge]

Here’s a related question: How important is the character themselves to you in determining characters you’d like to see in Smash vs just representation of the game they’re from? To me, while both are important, I prioritize the character. For example, I love Tales of Symphonia but Lloyd never really appealed to me much as a character. I’d still be happy to see the game representation with him as a character but I wouldn’t be super hyped. Conversely, I was never able to get very far in Battletoads. I beat the third stage (Turbo Tunnel) once or twice but lost very shortly after in the next level. Still, I think the characters are really cool and I had a lot of fun with the few stages I did play. I definitely had more fun with Tales of Symphonia as a game but the Battletoads are higher on my list.

I think characters should represent themselves rather than their games. There’s nothing wrong with having characterless franchises in the game via stages and the like but trying to slap the powers and things of others tends to feel a bit awkward. Don’t get me wrong I understand that sometimes you have to with characters with limited stuff but when they don’t have those limitations it feels unnecessary

What character isn't as guaranteed as people think. An example that I could have is Mewtwo since he doesn't have the best track record of staying in the roster.

It’s a difficult one to judge really. Especially for veterans. But I do think there are plenty of 3rd party newcomers who have overrated chances

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

DK Jr. is a funny one; Modern DK could just be him grown up, hence the other one not appearing generally anymore. Also, DK at that point played the same role, and being from a different part of the franchise, it makes sense that they would focus more on the normal Super Mario characters over those that are part of the greater franchise. They barely delved into DKC at times too, some taking forever to show up. WarioWare isn't even given anything but, by proxy, Wario himself. Dr. Mario isn't even part of the normal things either(though I don't remember if he showed up in Tour as a costume or something?).

The fact Diddy even got cut says a lot. DK Jr. also gained his own enemy in Stanley the Bugman, whereas DK and Mario are actual rivals in particular. So I can see why they moved on. With DK there, DK Jr. is more like an extra that if they have space, why not. But there's also a lot of new characters who never got used. It seems more like if the timing was better, DK would've been in Super Mario Kart instead.

 

[Gengar84]

It’s still crazy to me that Wart and Goomba haven’t had playable appearances in Mario Kart yet. For Goomba, you could argue that it’s because it doesn’t have hands to steer but Boo doesn’t have feet for the pedal. I’d love to see other Mario 2 characters like Mouser as well. He had a pretty decent role in the cartoon. We don’t need so many versions of the core cast like the babies and Pink Gold Peach. I’d rather see more unique characters.

 

[Will]

View attachment 397126

For his neutral special, Shadow wields a gun.

Shadow gets in Smash, but he’s voiced by John Wick. What’s everyone thinking?

 

[BuckleyTim]

If doomguy gets the nod I'd just hope the classic era would be healthily represented and it wasn't just SLAYER SLAYER SLAYER. Don't get me wrong, I like the modern stuff but classic doom would be the perfect stuff to put in smash aesthetic wise. He can be a Slayer all he wants, but he'll always be a Guy to me.

edit: granted, the mii costume trailer used 2016's version of at dooms gate instead of the original stuff, and from the get-go they paid homage to how dos doom looks so I'm not worried or anything, but eh I'd still be a bit miffed if he was called doom slayer instead of doomguy.

 

[HyperSomari64]

DK Jr. is a funny one; Modern DK could just be him grown up, hence the other one not appearing generally anymore. Also, DK at that point played the same role, and being from a different part of the franchise, it makes sense that they would focus more on the normal Super Mario characters over those that are part of the greater franchise. They barely delved into DKC at times too, some taking forever to show up. WarioWare isn't even given anything but, by proxy, Wario himself. Dr. Mario isn't even part of the normal things either(though I don't remember if he showed up in Tour as a costume or something?).

The fact Diddy even got cut says a lot. DK Jr. also gained his own enemy in Stanley the Bugman, whereas DK and Mario are actual rivals in particular. So I can see why they moved on. With DK there, DK Jr. is more like an extra that if they have space, why not. But there's also a lot of new characters who never got used. It seems more like if the timing was better, DK would've been in Super Mario Kart instead.

Wasn't Cranky his grandpa. Ergo is his grandson.
Or this got retconned for the 1000th time?

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Wasn't Cranky his grandpa. Ergo is his grandson.
Or this got retconned for the 1000th time?

The answer is inconsistent and depends on the game and media.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If doomguy gets the nod I'd just hope the classic era would be healthily represented and it wasn't just SLAYER SLAYER SLAYER. Don't get me wrong, I like the modern stuff but classic doom would be the perfect stuff to put in smash aesthetic wise. He can be a Slayer all he wants, but he'll always be a Guy to me.

edit: granted, the mii costume trailer used 2016's version of at dooms gate instead of the original stuff, and from the get-go they paid homage to how dos doom looks so I'm not worried or anything, but eh I'd still be a bit miffed if he was called doom slayer instead of doomguy.

The problem with that is that Doomguy was never an official name iirc

It was just a name the fans gave in the original trilogy because he was never given one at the time.

Doom Slayer, on the other hand, is an officially given name since 2016 and there really would be no reason to pick any other option because other (official) options straight up don't exist. He could be designed entirely around the classic games and he would still be called Slayer since it's the only name he's got.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Shadow gets in Smash, but he’s voiced by John Wick. What’s everyone thinking?

Bottom text

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If doomguy gets the nod I'd just hope the classic era would be healthily represented and it wasn't just SLAYER SLAYER SLAYER. Don't get me wrong, I like the modern stuff but classic doom would be the perfect stuff to put in smash aesthetic wise. He can be a Slayer all he wants, but he'll always be a Guy to me.

edit: granted, the mii costume trailer used 2016's version of at dooms gate instead of the original stuff, and from the get-go they paid homage to how dos doom looks so I'm not worried or anything, but eh I'd still be a bit miffed if he was called doom slayer instead of doomguy.

Name aside, series that go way back (Mega Man, Street Fighter, Castlevania, etc.) have a huge tendency to be mostly retro callbacks. I wouldn't be surprised if Doom was similar. In fact, I'd expect it to be that way, with the new stuff existing mostly just to fill in holes in the moveset.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, my prediction for returning Fire Emblem vets are Marth, Lucina, Ike, Robin, and Byleth. I suspect that Roy, Chrom, and Corrin won’t make the cut in the next game. I think your analysis is pretty spot on.

I think Chrom will return actually. Roy, I have no real good idea actually. He's a semi clone of Marth, a popular one too. Chrom also got in due to popular demand.

Honestly... I can easily envision every Fire Emblem character returning. Engage and Heroes helped establish the cast we have even more. Corrin is the only odd one out.

However I kinda hope that Lucina and Chrom can be Echoes of each other and have a new moveset. That's still sort of similar to Marth of course.

Marth is literally the only character I'd justify having this many clones for. It works. In a bloated roster I think it's justifiable for Mario and Link too. Mario is guaranteed with Luigi, Dr.Mario is 50/50 for me. Toon Link also seems more likely to stay than to be cut. At least some variation of a smaller Link will be there.

 

[Gengar84]

I think Chrom will return actually. Roy, I have no real good idea actually. He's a semi clone of Marth, a popular one too. Chrom also got in due to popular demand.

Honestly... I can easily envision every Fire Emblem character returning. Engage and Heroes helped establish the cast we have even more. Corrin is the only odd one out.

However I kinda hope that Lucina and Chrom can be Echoes of each other and have a new moveset. That's still sort of similar to Marth of course.

Marth is literally the only character I'd justify having this many clones for. It works. In a bloated roster I think it's justifiable for Mario and Link too. Mario is guaranteed with Luigi, Dr.Mario is 50/50 for me. Toon Link also seems more likely to stay than to be cut. At least some variation of a smaller Link will be there.

I think a lot of that depends on just how scaled down the roster is. If we actually do go back to around 50 characters, I feel like a lot of people are going to be pretty upset that potentially 9 of those 50 are Fire Emblem. With a larger roster closer to Ultimate’s current size, it’s a lot more feasible to keep all of them. I like all three franchises but I don’t think I want Mario, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem to take up half the roster. I feel like all three series would need a few cuts with a smaller roster so they don’t just overtake the rest of the game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If there's something I want, it's for characters with charge specials to release an attack immediately upon tapping the button and to charge by holding the button down. Not a particular fan of having to double-tap to get Robin to use which Thunder attack I want them to use when it's not Thoron.

Given that chargeable projectiles can be shield canceled and most of them even retain their charge level that one, I could also see a "hold and release" mechanic for those moves as well which has the bonus of feeling even more intuitive than "press B a second time"

 

[MrMcNuts]

Which non japanese IP has the most chance to be in Smash Bros 6? In my case are fortnite and Crash Bandicoot.

When it comes to fan requests, Crash, Doom, Rayman and Master Chief are easily the 4 most requested Western reps. Crash I'd say is number 1 so that gives him an edge, Doom is the father of fps so that impact could give him an edge too. Rayman got to show up on a Mario game last year with a neat lil gift exchange between him and Mario at the end, plus he's been getting more merch relevancy and a new game is in development, so he's got that going. Chief is insanely iconic and the face of Xbox, but because of that I wonder if they're fully ready to let their flagship boy show up on a competitor only product, but if they don't mind yeah he'd have a good chance. All 4 have great merits for joining so it's hard to tell but at the least I think we'd get 2 of em next game.

Sans and Shovel knight are probably the two western indies I'd bank on if we were to get one of those as well.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Honestly... I can easily envision every Fire Emblem character returning. Engage and Heroes helped establish the cast we have even more. Corrin is the only odd one out.

I feel like it's guaranteed that not all of them are going to return and especially how controversial the series can be in this community. Roy, Chrom and Corrin feel the most expendable. Chrom is popular but he feels like a package deal with Roy who doesn't seem that likely to return.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Honestly... I can easily envision every Fire Emblem character returning.

I'd want to but we have enough evidence to know that Sakurai won't really bash his head on the wall if he's not able to bring back all of them.

Not saying there would be spite cuts but the fact that even the game's director admits there's too much FE makes it pretty damn clear that not all Fire Emblem characters will be high on the priority list.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Chrom is popular but he feels like a package deal with Roy who doesn't seem that likely to return.

At the same time, he's a clone of a clone and reuses the model from Robin's FS/victory screen, so he depends more on assets from Marth and Robin to make, if anything.

 

[Noipoi]

Smash for 3DS/Wii U should’ve been called Super Smash Bros Duel

Y’know cuz Dual? Duel?

 

[Gengar84]

Smash for 3DS/Wii U should’ve been called Super Smash Bros Duel

Y’know cuz Dual? Duel?

That’s not bad idea actually. I like it better than Smash 4.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If doomguy gets the nod I'd just hope the classic era would be healthily represented and it wasn't just SLAYER SLAYER SLAYER.

Everything from Doom you could make an actual Smash moveset out of is from the Slayer era.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Smash for 3DS/Wii U should’ve been called Super Smash Bros Duel

Y’know cuz Dual? Duel?

That's pretty fun actually. They probably didn't go with it for the similar reasons as to why they didn't go for Splatwon/Spla2n; it would have been confusing to the general public since they're the same name for two pretty different games.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Everything from Doom you could make an actual Smash moveset out of is from the Slayer era.

Yep.
As for classic Doom, I'd be satisfied with a '90s Doom Guy costume (pretty much guaranteed if he ever actually happens imo) and a hefty dose of music.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd half expect the Doom stage to be a retro stage as well.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I'd half expect the Doom stage to be a retro stage as well.

I wouldn't personally be a fan. Part of the fun when classic characters get in is seeing what places like Wily's castle or Spiral Mountain look like in a modernized version. Pac-Land on the other hand is incredibly lame.
Not to mention that Doom has a perfectly viable modern aesthetic already, and it looks great.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Smash for 3DS/Wii U should’ve been called Super Smash Bros Duel

Y’know cuz Dual? Duel?

Back in the day I thought smash 4 would be called Smash bros Universe or smash bros Dimensions lol. Universe for the Wii U version and Dimensions for 3Ds.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Back in the day I thought smash 4 would be called Smash bros Universe or smash bros Dimensions lol. Universe for the Wii U version and Dimensions for 3Ds.

Would've been cool but then you'd have made people think these were two separate games rather than simply two different versions of the same one.

 

[Gengar84]

I just saw that the Octopath Traveller series just hit 5 million in sales. That’s a pretty cool landmark for a smaller series like that. While it’s probably not very likely, I’d love to see an Octopath character in Smash. My pick is H’aanit since she’s my favorite and brings a unique beast tamer/huntress style to Smash. Even just an Octopath stage and music would be awesome if we can’t get a playable character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wouldn't personally be a fan. Part of the fun when classic characters get in is seeing what places like Wily's castle or Spiral Mountain look like in a modernized version. Pac-Land on the other hand is incredibly lame.
Not to mention that Doom has a perfectly viable modern aesthetic already, and it looks great.

Yeah thinking about it, none of the other retro characters (except arguably PAC-Man with both Pac-Maze and Pac-Land) have this distinction, so Doom probably wouldn't be super different. However, I would expect the stage to be based off of classic Doom rather than modern Doom. I also wouldn't be super surprised if there was a retro version of said stage, kinda like Minecraft World's biomes, but with the only gameplay change being the flattened character models despite the 3D environment.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah thinking about it, none of the other retro characters (except arguably PAC-Man with both Pac-Maze and Pac-Land) have this distinction, so Doom probably wouldn't be super different. However, I would expect the stage to be based off of classic Doom rather than modern Doom. I also wouldn't be super surprised if there was a retro version of said stage, kinda like Minecraft World's biomes, but with the only gameplay change being the flattened character models despite the 3D environment.

I could see a retro environment given a modern look, but I could also see something like Fortress of Doom from Eternal (Slayer's home base).

As for other locations, I know next to nothing about Doom, I just think some of Doom's level names would be hilarious in Smash. Like imagine scrolling through the stages in a new Smash game and seeing a stage titled "Thy Flesh Consumed" lmao

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just saw that the Octopath Traveller series just hit 5 million in sales. That’s a pretty cool landmark for a smaller series like that. While it’s probably not very likely, I’d love to see an Octopath character in Smash. My pick is H’aanit since she’s my favorite and brings a unique beast tamer/huntress style to Smash. Even just an Octopath stage and music would be awesome if we can’t get a playable character.

I don't think we'd get a playable character since the cast has the packaged deal problem times 8. Like, my personal pick would be Cyrus, but there's no reason to pick him over H'aanit or anyone else.

...I suppose if they do something that mixes all the classes together and make them spritework characters they could technically add all of them, but that'd still be a bit weird.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yeah thinking about it, none of the other retro characters (except arguably PAC-Man with both Pac-Maze and Pac-Land) have this distinction, so Doom probably wouldn't be super different. However, I would expect the stage to be based off of classic Doom rather than modern Doom. I also wouldn't be super surprised if there was a retro version of said stage, kinda like Minecraft World's biomes, but with the only gameplay change being the flattened character models despite the 3D environment.

The thing about classic DOOM is the heavy Satanic imagery, which was featured in a lot of levels in those games. It's something I doubt Nintendo would want in the Smash series.

The best idea for a stage I can think of is Mars, the first stage in the 2016 version. I think it's one of the safest picks for a DOOM stage, as it doesn't feature that type of image and it's one of the many important locations in the series too.

 

[Golden Icarus]

It's tough to prioritize them, but I would roughly say >>, although it's pretty minor.

I think I agree with this hierarchy, as much as I love Robin. I do think Ike’s sheer popularity and recognition from Smash beats out the more speculation-brained notions of “representation and significance.” And Three Houses just ever so slightly beat Awakening in most metrics and Byleth doesn’t have two other playable characters that could represent their game.

I also must say that people hand wave Chrom a bit too quickly. The main protagonist of one of the biggest games who had an entire funeral during Smash 4 and then was brought into Ultimate due to popular demand and is coincidentally the most “unique” of the Marth clones. Being an echo of a clone leads people to suggest he has some arbitrary prerequisites to be included, but I don’t think it’s the major hurdle people make it out to be. Roy/Chrom have a mostly distinct and very popular playstyle and Chrom has some notable advantages over Roy. Maybe choosing Chrom instead would be too big of an F U to Roy’s legacy? But I still wouldn’t rule out the possibility.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Here’s a related question: How important is the character themselves to you in determining characters you’d like to see in Smash vs just representation of the game they’re from? To me, while both are important, I prioritize the character. For example, I love Tales of Symphonia but Lloyd never really appealed to me much as a character. I’d still be happy to see the game representation with him as a character but I wouldn’t be super hyped. Conversely, I was never able to get very far in Battletoads. I beat the third stage (Turbo Tunnel) once or twice but lost very shortly after in the next level. Still, I think the characters are really cool and I had a lot of fun with the few stages I did play. I definitely had more fun with Tales of Symphonia as a game but the Battletoads are higher on my list.

I decided to think about this with Narmaya and Baldur's Gate III.

I really like Narmaya as a character, but the only Granblue I played is Versus Rising, which I didn't like much. Meanwhile, I really like BG3 as a game, but I'm not in love with any of the characters (Shadowheart and Astarion are the most popular and thus the candidates for Smash).

Ultimately the character is who you play as, and I'd enjoy playing Narmaya a lot, but a BG3 character would bring fun content from their game, like a stage and music. I think I'd have more opportunities to enjoy the character, so I'd have to side with Narmaya here.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, Im going to say something slightly controversial.

Falco is never leaving unless the roster is gutted and he'll never be cut for Wolf.

Falco has never been a low priority character after his clone debut.

• In Brawl, he was high priority and had a decent spotlight in the SSE.
• In Smash 4, he was an early unlock. These are usually saved for characters that are "obvious." It was no secret that Falco was returning.
• And Ultimate had everyone is here lol.

Falco may not be the highest priority character but he's certainly high priority enough to never be in doubt. And unlike Wolf, we have no proof he was ever considered lower priority.

BIRD UP

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

So, Im going to say something slightly controversial.

Falco is never leaving unless the roster is gutted and he'll never be cut for Wolf.

Falco has never been a low priority character after his clone debut.

• In Brawl, he was high priority and had a decent spotlight in the SSE.
• In Smash 4, he was an early unlock. These are usually saved for characters that are "obvious." It was no secret that Falco was returning.
• And Ultimate had everyone is here lol.

Falco may not be the highest priority character but he's certainly high priority enough to never be in doubt. And unlike Wolf, we have no proof he was ever considered lower priority.

BIRD UP

And though it probably doesn't mean much, it should be brought up that Falco was considered as early as Smash 64 as an alt of Fox (along with Slippy and Peppy).

 

[fogbadge]

So, Im going to say something slightly controversial.

Falco is never leaving unless the roster is gutted and he'll never be cut for Wolf.

Falco has never been a low priority character after his clone debut.

• In Brawl, he was high priority and had a decent spotlight in the SSE.
• In Smash 4, he was an early unlock. These are usually saved for characters that are "obvious." It was no secret that Falco was returning.
• And Ultimate had everyone is here lol.

Falco may not be the highest priority character but he's certainly high priority enough to never be in doubt. And unlike Wolf, we have no proof he was ever considered lower priority.

BIRD UP

I don’t see how that’s controversial