Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Noipoi]

How would Abe fight?

Oddly

 

[Wario Bros.]

Never mind

 

[Idon]

I really do think Ryu Hayabusa is severely overdue for a smash character, even without the existence of Ninja Gaiden 4 bringing him back to relevancy.

• Koei Tecmo, a new company to bring into smash, works extremely closely with just about any company, to the point they've developed their most popular FE game and several extremely popular warriors spinoff titles of their main IPs.
• Ninja Gaiden is both a classic franchise and a modern one in the same vein of Castlevania or Megaman.
• The main character has a fully fleshed out kit of combat abilities and is far and away the most iconic user of the Izuna Drop ninja technique.
• Ryu Hayabusa himself is far and away KT's most iconic character and is referenced in their other games like Warriors and Nioh and I guess Dead or Alive but that doesn't really count.

The stars are just aligned so well for him that I'll be inevitably disappointed when it doesn't pan out
like Dante

 

[92MilesPrower]

Oddly

Oh brother, this guy STINKS!

 

[Stratos]

From Japanese video game companies that have not yet sent any characters as newcomers, are Level-5 and Koei Tecmo and certainly the most sought after from these two companies are Ryu Hayabusa and Professor Hershel Layton. Also regarding Koei Tecmo, two characters that I would also like as newcomers are Mocchi and Suezo from the Monster Rancher series. Of course there will certainly be other Japanese video game companies that have not yet sent their characters as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[Wonder Smash]

From Japanese video game companies that have not yet sent any characters as newcomers, are Level-5 and Koei Tecmo and certainly the most sought after from these two companies are Ryu Hayabusa and Professor Hershel Layton. Also regarding Koei Tecmo, two characters that I would also like as newcomers are Mocchi and Suezo from the Monster Rancher series. Of course there will certainly be other Japanese video game companies that have not yet sent their characters as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series.

Yeah, such as Arc System Works and Nihon Falcom.

 

[Stratos]

How would Abe fight?

Abe knows how to slap and especially in Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee he can fight enemies hand to hand., another move I can think of is throwing grenades and for his Final Smash he has his transformation into Shrykull which destroys all enemies and explosives near him.

 

[dream1ng]

Ryu Hayabusa has been a sensible pick since Brawl. Back then he wasn't a frontrunner or anything, but he's had notable games across many generations, a strong Nintendo association, and a company willing to play ball.

But due to the somewhat random way non-fanbase third-parties get selected, and the fact that the pool of plausible candidates is so large, it's not that surprising he hasn't been a fighter yet. What I do find surprising is that even with KT's involvement and the expansion of third-parties in supporting content Ultimate saw, he wasn't anything. Not even like a costume or a spirit event.

As we progress, I think his omission will start to stick out. Not necessarily because Ninja Gaiden is so huge or whatever, but just because if they continue adding SNK-level companies, KT's absence will start to become quite conspicuous. And I don't foresee anyone else coming from them before Hayabusa.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I really do think Ryu Hayabusa is severely overdue for a smash character, even without the existence of Ninja Gaiden 4 bringing him back to relevancy.

• Koei Tecmo, a new company to bring into smash, works extremely closely with just about any company, to the point they've developed their most popular FE game and several extremely popular warriors spinoff titles of their main IPs.
• Ninja Gaiden is both a classic franchise and a modern one in the same vein of Castlevania or Megaman.
• The main character has a fully fleshed out kit of combat abilities and is far and away the most iconic user of the Izuna Drop ninja technique.
• Ryu Hayabusa himself is far and away KT's most iconic character and is referenced in their other games like Warriors and Nioh and I guess Dead or Alive but that doesn't really count.

The stars are just aligned so well for him that I'll be inevitably disappointed when it doesn't pan out
like Dante

Hayabusa is like the next big retro NES third party like Mega Man and Simon before him and that is something that appeals to a lot of core gamers. I think if we get any new Japanese company, it'll be Koei Tecmo.

 

[dream1ng]

Hayabusa is like the next big retro NES third party like Mega Man and Simon before him and that is something that appeals to a lot of core gamers. I think if we get any new Japanese company, it'll be Tecmo.

The reason these characters are popular as compared to other "NES third-parties" is because they're not defined solely by being NES characters though, these are characters/series that continued successfully into newer generations just like Mario and Zelda and Metroid.

I mean the look most people give Ryu when devising mockups of him in Smash is the modern one. And It's not like we called Ridley a big NES first-party.

It's weird to me to look at them like their accomplishments in more modern times (modern being... like everything after SNES) are ancillary in why people cared about them or supported them.

And in fact, these "retro" characters don't usually accrue much support unless they have recent accomplishments as well. Look at Bomberman. Or like how Doom Slayer and Crash didn't get their popularity dialed up until post-ballot when those series returned, despite the stature of their original titles.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I do think Ryu Hayabusa will almost certainly happen eventually (even if I do have light PTSD from Ultimate's DLC cycle lmao). He's a long-running icon somewhat associated with Nintendo because of his origins on the NES with an obvious continued presence in the gaming landscape, and makes sense for a base game addition.

That said, I also think it'd be hilarious if we got something like an Atelier character first like Ryza or something, and then got Ryu later as DLC because he's more of a recognizable icon for KT.

 

[Wonder Smash]

All this talk about how Hayabusa makes me want to go back and add a few more pics to my own Smash reveal for him in the trailer topic.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

I feel like we'll at least keep the characters we have alongside a stage and music for Xenoblade 3, maybe music for X? I do think either Noah or Mio is a big potential candidate for next game as well, so as a Xenoblade fan I'd obviously like to see that too, but keeping what we have character-wise plus a new stage and new music is like the minimum I think the series will have next game lol

Speaking with my personal desire for stages to be mostly new minus a small number of Ultimate's new stages, I'd also like Cloud Sea to be one of the returning stages.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

Shulk is one of those characters I see being on the roster pretty much no matter what. I'm not a big fan of Pythra, but they are one of the only Swap Gimmick characters and are the most modern first parties on the roster so there's definitely a reason to keep them around.

I think Elma has a very solid shot for a new inclusion, given she's had a ton of fan demand and her remake would either be releasing or at least confirmed to be coming when the roster was being decided.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

They will probably add one new character from the 3rd game.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

It'll be like Fire Emblem and they add more characters.

 

[Laniv]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

Noah and Mio join the battle, Elma gets to be at least an Assist Trophy

 

[Watuna4343]

I meeeean, to be fair, the only game Doc has missed out on was Brawl, and we know he was probably planned at one time since he's part of the Forbidden Seven, so like...

I argued about Doctor Mario not too long ago BUT him missing Brawl is not as small of a deal. He is still a surefire cut next game considering that he returned in 4 simply because he wasn't originally a fighter and then Ultimate where 'Everyone is Here' happened so obviously. Brawl sticks out as in that game, out of the 3 Melee vets that were cut (so him, Mewtwo and Roy) Doctor Mario has the least amount of content in the files. Mewtwo had the most and was easily the biggest inclusion left so it's pretty much 100% guaranteed that Mewtwo was the next in line to join the roster. Then Roy had some breadcrumps which suggests that he was the one following but Doctor Mario didn't have anything, so him being cut is both a result of time constraints and also lower priority. Next game isn't going to be 'Everyone is Here' again and neither is Doctor Mario going to be added as an alt skin given the reason Sakurai stated for separating him so we are talking about dev time being devoted to him over like... any other character. The point is (and how this retreats back to Ken), is that both of them are in a lot of danger come next game in terms of priority.

 

[Watuna4343]

The only echo fighter I’m confident will return is .

Her being a glorified skin might be blessing rather than a curse here, considering her role in Wonder, Smash at least having an extra Mario Princess in the chance does get cut, or just being a popular addition.

There really is not much going against Daisy coming back.

Speaking of echo fighters, and clones in general, they just don’t get a lot of worthwhile attention from people. So many just dismiss them as lazy choices, and it’s been like this since Melee. I get people want unique choices, but echo fighters do allow a few curveballs and unexpected choices.

In terms of a new game, Octoling should be the most likely new echo fighter. There’s no way Octoling isn’t there.

But on the off chance they’re an alt instead? Who do we go for? Personally, I’d advocate for a Xenoblade echo fighter (or as I’ll dub them now, ‘Xeno-Clones’), and Pikmin isn’t a bad shout either with it being stuck on since Brawl.

But yeah. Echo Fighters deserve to be recognised more as bonuses, and with more thought on who actually works as an echo, rather than slapping anyone there, or just not caring.

I disagree about Daisy - for me (perhaps an unpopular opinion) THE single most likely echo fighter is Lucina. She is one of the most popular FE characters and hails from the game that saved the series and yes Robin is a shoe-in next game, but I'd argue some extra love to what is arguably the most important game of the franchise is warranted by adding what is again, the single most popular character from said game. Also Lucina moveset-wise serves a role as 'easier Marth', whereas Daisy really is just a visually different Peach. Add to the fact that the FE franchise is far more likely to see at least 3 cuts (Roy, Corrin and Chrom) and Lucina is a nice way to still keep FE representation on the roster (much as the Smash fandom hates the series, it's very popular in Japan) and if we are talking gender, Lucina is the only female character on the roster, since Robin, Corrin and Byleth are avatars. All that makes me think that Lucina is absolutely the hardest lock to return among the clones. Daisy is not too far behind mind ya, but in a hypothetical scenario where it only came down to 1 echo, I don't see how it's not Lucina that gets added.

 

[Lionfranky]

Something I'd like to mention regarding Square Enix is that Sakurai has outright said they aren't stingy. I understand enough Japanese to know that the translation that was used on the English version during this part of the Sephiroth presentation isn't entirely accurate. Here's the transcript of what he's saying in Japanese:

The translation would be something like this:

A little ironic that the part where Sakurai says he wants to make it clear that Square Enix aren't stingy wasn't properly translated, but oh well. He goes on to explain that the reason Final Fantasy only had two songs is because FF songs have multiple copyright holders and that's why getting them in Smash was complicated. This was properly translated.

And this is why we aren't getting manga characters.

 

[Goombaic]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

What I think happens: No cuts, Noah and Mio are added as separate characters, Noah sharing a bit from Shulk and Mio being completely unique.

What I want: Pythra get replaced with Rex and Pyra like it was meant to be, Noah and Mio are in as a pair as well, and Elma is there too.

 

[SharkLord]

I think Dante is DLC next game. Maybe it's Ultimate bias but that sorta feels like the context he's most appropriate in, if that makes sense? It felt like he wasn't really a factor in discussion during base game, and then skyrocketed in popularity once DLC was announced. I'd be surprised if Nintendo decided not follow through on all those requests to give them 5$.

I am notoriously a Phoenix Wright stan so I would rather see that happen, an evidence based mechanic better executed than Velma's in Multiversus would be cool. I also just want a courtroom stage and AA music. An Edgeworth Echo Fighter (sorry Apollo) is my pipiest of pipe dreams.

Monster Hunter is interesting, since it's had miis since Smash 4 and Rathalos in base Ultimate. I kinda prefer the devs leaning into the armor and Monster side of the games rather than giving a character slot to 'avatar dude with weapons' but seeing as how Steve was maybe my childhood dream character I can't complain. It would be cool to have a stage we could see outside boss fights though.

If we get more MonHun content, I do wonder what stage they'd go with. Depending on when the game releases - I'm still betting a 2026/2027 release rather than Smash 6 as a launch title - Wilds might release in time to be the hot new game on the block, and from what we've seen so far there's a lot of unique areas that could easily lend themselves to some great stages. If that's too late, Ancestral Steppe is what Rathalos has in Ultimate, and I believe the Coral Highlands is beloved from World, though I've only played Rise so I'm not one to talk. On that note, I could also see them using a Rise stage since that was a major Switch release, probably the Shrine Ruins

 

[Watuna4343]

Also on the topic of Xenoblade. Shulk and Pyra/Mythra are imo definitely coming back however... do you guys think it's at all possible that we get a Xenoblade newcomer that is however neither Noah nor Mio?

 

[Shinuto]

Also on the topic of Xenoblade. Shulk and Pyra/Mythra are imo definitely coming back however... do you guys think it's at all possible that we get a Xenoblade newcomer that is however neither Noah nor Mio?

Nia please.

 

[Gengar84]

Also on the topic of Xenoblade. Shulk and Pyra/Mythra are imo definitely coming back however... do you guys think it's at all possible that we get a Xenoblade newcomer that is however neither Noah nor Mio?

I think either Noah or Mio is the most likely but I don’t think they’re the only options. I could potentially see Elma or Nia as a less conventional pick as they’re both very popular.

 

[Perkilator]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

Noah and Mio will be fighters in the base game. Rex (as he appears in Future Redeemed) could either be a DLC fighter or a base game Assist Trophy.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

And this is why we aren't getting manga characters.

Not only that, but obtaining the licensing for characters from the IPs seem to be expensive as hell.

Supposedly just the license to Goku himself is the equivalent of $20mil to the Dragon Ball IP holder in Japan.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Also on the topic of Xenoblade. Shulk and Pyra/Mythra are imo definitely coming back however... do you guys think it's at all possible that we get a Xenoblade newcomer that is however neither Noah nor Mio?

Elma is certainly an option, but it depends on when Smash comes out I think, since the remake wasn't announced until last October and comes out next month. If Smash is a 2026 game (which I think it will be since we already wanna give Mario Kart at least SOME space I think), then it may be a Pyra/Mythra situation where the game came out too far along to really consider her.

Depends on a lot of timing things we don't know yet basically lol

 

[SharkLord]

On the topic of Ryu Hayabusa, how many people here have actually played Ninja Gaiden? I've been playing through the first Sigma lately, and I realized that he's always brought up as someone with good chances, but I've rarely seen anyone discuss the game's content or how he fights beyond the Izuna Drop.

Halfway through Sigma, and I've unlocked a couple varieties shurikens and arrows, a bunch of weapons, and some fancy sword techniques, most notably the Flying Swallow, a swift aerial dive towards an enemy. There's also a couple Ninpo spells; a ring of fireballs around you, a single fireball projectile, a burst of cold wind, and a bunch of electric bolts around you. There's also a fancy spinning attack that flows into an upwards slash, plus a barrage of slashes that i sometimes activate but don't know the input for. I don't know much else for what he gets in later games, but I do know there's a massive scythe in Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

And this is why we aren't getting manga characters.

It occurs to me how weird it is that FF7's DLC packs arent more expensive than the others.

Usually when music has multiple license holders they make it more expensive to justify the cost of licensing, ive noticed this while playing stuff like Super robot wars where the normal games use instrumental remixes of the songs and to use the actual versions of the songs you have to pay for either a 20 dollar DLC pack or a more expensive version of the base game.

Dragon Ball games do this sort of thing too.

 

[Louie G.]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

Shulk and Pyra / Mythra are 100% returning.

I think it's safe to assume Shulk as Xenoblade's "Marth", but even devoid of that association we got Xenoblade Definitive Edition in 2020. So not only does his legacy remain strong, but the Switch has kept him relevant. Pyra and Mythra are from the best selling game in the series, are arguably the series' most popular and marketable characters, and are one of the most "current" additions off the heels of Smash Ultimate. They are also probably the most straightforward stance character in the game, IMO have pretty much taken up the mantle as the quintessential vessel for this archetype.

I could see both Xenoblade stages returning, or perhaps even something new from Xenoblade 1. Most reliably we can probably count on a stage and a slew of music from Xenoblade 3, to keep the series representation fresh. I don't know if that will translate over to the roster or not though - Noah and Mio feel like solid candidates in their own right, but I don't think XBC is guaranteed a constant stream of new characters the way people think it is. But everything else can be expected, nonplayable content to keep up to date with the latest releases is par for the course.

XB3 was a respectable success, it's sold close to two million copies as per a recent report. Nintendo is clearly proud of Xenoblade's progress on the Switch, no doubt due to three (soon to be four) different releases on the console boosting it to a higher status within the company. But it is still a fairly small series in the grand scheme of things, which is why I'm admittedly dubious of seeing four or five Xenoblade characters in the next game.

Since the community seems torn on which or how Noah and Mio will make it into the game, I've been hesitant to make a formal prediction myself. Mostly for the sake of conversation, since they have become one of the "usual suspects" of contemporary Smash speculation, I flip flop with myself and often take devil's advocate toward the question of whether they will be included at all. I will say this much though - I do not see them being added as a "duo character", and I'm certain Rex / Pyra ran into a few more problems than simple technical limitations. I've seen an uptick in asking for both characters in separate slots... intriguing, to be honest. But again, is kind of asking for a lot of time and space spent on Xenoblade - a respectable, on-the-rise series in Nintendo's catalogue but I am very dubious of giving this much attention to a series that is 3-4 games large and is bluntly a ways off from doing Nintendo A-lister numbers.

...Oh yeah, and Elma exists too. Hopefully XBX will at least be acknowledged in higher capacity next game. I don't see her being added as a playable character but Smash Ultimate did this one pretty dirty. But yeah, in summary, Xenoblade will retain all of its characters and maybe get one or both of Mio and Noah (NOT as a team character)... but it's a slightly hard sell to see this series hit that kind of roster real estate juuuuust yet. For me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

Assuming the project plan is from 2021, I think the most likely scenario is literally nothing barring maybe getting one of the game's new stages. Sword Valley or Garfont Village or something like that.

It's unlikely we'll get anything from Xenoblade Chronicles 3, and extremely unlikely we'll get anything from Xenoblade Chronicles X.

EDIT: Actually, some music from Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is definitely on the cards since that's a simple port job. I wouldn't expect too many tracks though. Just a couple. I wouldn't expect any from Xenoblade Chronicles X though since they'd have to talk to more than just MonolithSoft to get them in.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Since the community seems torn on which or how Noah and Mio will make it into the game, I've been hesitant to make a formal prediction myself. Mostly for the sake of conversation, since they have become one of the "usual suspects" of contemporary Smash speculation, I flip flop with myself and often take devil's advocate toward the question of whether they will be included at all. I will say this much though - I do not see them being added as a "duo character", and I'm certain Rex / Pyra ran into a few more problems than simple technical limitations. I've seen an uptick in asking for both characters in separate slots... intriguing, to be honest.

I feel like Noah is more likely because he has the plot sword, but if it were up to me I'd pick Mio for her entirely unique weapon type and have Noah involved in her Final Smash since it's almost certainly going to be something involving Ouroboros if one of them gets added.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like Noah is more likely because he has the plot sword, but if it were up to me I'd pick Mio for her entirely unique weapon type and have Noah involved in her Final Smash since it's almost certainly going to be something involving Ouroboros if one of them gets added.

I feel the same - if you held me at gunpoint, I'm choosing the one with the cool little disc things over the sword guy. I know that's an oversimplification, but I think it's a fair judgement to be more compelled by the weapon type not resembling anything we've seen in Smash so far. I'm open to being schooled by those who know more about the series than I do, but I think fighter variety should be a higher priority than simply plot significance.

And I've been told that Xenoblade 3 has a pretty central mechanic about swapping weapons. That's cool, but I think I'd be deluding myself if I expected either Noah or Mio to use one another's signature weapons. Kind of giving me "Chrom with a lance" vibes to hear people suggest Noah could use those too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Why did you pick the ugliest Ryu and Nina designs

It's my favorite Nina and I just went with the Ryuu from the same game.

Will they use a oufit for Mai that debuted in another series she was a guest in?

It's her Garou outfit.

Hayabusa is like the next big retro NES third party like Mega Man and Simon before him and that is something that appeals to a lot of core gamers.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I feel the same - if you held me at gunpoint, I'm choosing the one with the cool little disc things over the sword guy. I know that's an oversimplification, but I think it's a fair judgement to be more compelled by the weapon type not resembling anything we've seen in Smash so far. I'm open to being schooled by those who know more about the series than I do, but I think fighter variety should be a higher priority than simply plot significance.

And I've been told that Xenoblade 3 has a pretty central mechanic about swapping weapons. That's cool, but I think I'd be deluding myself if I expected either Noah or Mio to use one another's signature weapons. Kind of giving me "Chrom with a lance" vibes to hear people suggest Noah could use those too.

Well, the swapping weapons thing is more of a class change deal? Like you can change the main party's classes to something else if you want and get some Arts and passives that they can carry to any other class they use. It's not like a thing where they can just change weapons on the fly mid-battle or anything, but it is technically something every main party member can do.

And as far as the plot significance thing goes, Mio is also super central to the plot, and not just by extension as Noah's other half of Ouroboros. Noah and Mio are basically dual protags, Noah's just the one with the special sword lol

 

[Louie G.]

And as far as the plot significance thing goes, Mio is also super central to the plot, and not just by extension as Noah's other half of Ouroboros. Noah and Mio are basically dual protags, Noah's just the one with the special sword lol

Right yeah, I just meant I don't know how much they're gonna value that sword over offering a brand new gameplay element. I think past precedent favors the latter, if anything... so if I go with a singular Xenoblade 3 character, I'll probably stand by Mio on that.

I'm getting a lot of similar vibes to experiences I had prior to and during Ultimate speculation, actually. Where I was initially predicting Pyra would be added to the roster, but I was promptly told she didn't make sense on her own. Nowadays I see a lot of people propose that Noah and Mio must be a package deal... it's a pretty sweet thing to imagine, we don't get to see characters follow each other to the battle too often. So I'm not actually opposed to it, as two separate characters, but I wouldn't count out just getting Mio either.