Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Shinuto]

This has probably been said many times before, but they can't keep using Falcondorf, and I don't think it should be transferred to Black Shadow if he gets in, even if he were to be an Echo or a semi-clone of Falcon.

I honestly think he'd look pretty cool with his own unique moveset.

Why though there's literally nothing you can do with him that wouldn't just be bigger evil captain falcon

 

[Dukefire]

This is a very specific hypothetical, so in this line of logic, these cuts are what make the most sense in comparison to like, Bowser, Ness, or Pit. Actually, you probably could cut Pit in this scenario, but I think doing so would favor seniority too much.

Also Rosalina & Luma has only appeared in spin-offs since Super Mario 3D World, so if we're going off appearances, they don't really have any that the devs would even look to since they heavily prioritize mainline appearances. In that sense, Bowser Jr. kinda blows them out of the water. Things change when you take into acount female representation and unique moveset concepts into account (which I'm sure Sakurai does), but as far as relevance goes, Bowser Jr. wins handily.

For Pit, he has gone through 3 different final smash. 2 being from Uprising made by Sakurai. You think Great Sacred Treasure might be it?
Also, it is difficult to decide who goes and who stays. We will get confirmation (hopefully) once Nintendo and Sakurai are ready. Until then, continue to traverse within the Fog.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

...Crap I forgot about Miis. If they have to be included (and I suspect they will be) they'll kinda screw things up because too many of these characters are important adds. I think the only doable sacrifices here are Little Mac-

I'm pretty sure Mac is one of the many fighters Mii Brawler lifts assets from, so by default he'd probably need to stay for Brawler to be in the game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

For Pit, he has gone through 3 different final smash. 2 being from Uprising made by Sakurai. You think Great Sacred Treasure might be it?
Also, it is difficult to decide who goes and who stays. We will get confirmation (hopefully) once Nintendo and Sakurai are ready. Until then, continue to traverse within the Fog.

I have no idea what your point is here.


As for Pit's Final Smash, it was based on Kid Icarus's final level in Brawl, updated to something more current from Kid Icarus: Uprising, then to something that doesn't last as long because they wanted to remove lingering Final Smashes in Ultimate.

I'm pretty sure Mac is one of the many fighters Mii Brawler lifts assets from, so by default he'd probably need to stay for Brawler to be in the game.

You wouldn't have to pull assets in order to make the character, you'd just have to make them from scratch (or pull from a similar character like Mario). In such a case, it'd take a little longer, but there's no way of knowing how long any fighter takes to make other than the vague idea that Kirby, Steve, and the Miis probably take more effort than everyone else.

 

[Watuna4343]

Also Rosalina & Luma has only appeared in spin-offs since Super Mario 3D World, so if we're going off appearances, they don't really have any that the devs would even look to since they heavily prioritize mainline appearances. In that sense, Bowser Jr. kinda blows them out of the water. Things change when you take into acount female representation and unique moveset concepts into account (which I'm sure Sakurai does), but as far as relevance goes, Bowser Jr. wins handily.

When was that said? Because if anything the biggest criteria that Sakurai chooses are moveset potential and popularity, mainline appearances are not so much deciding and I think it's very evident that it's the case that Sakurai doesn't give mainline appearances that much weight with the most glaring example being Toad. If we were going by mainline appearances, Toad would've gotten in before Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were considered (or low-key even created in Melee's case, like that's how far back Toad could've gotten in as a sensible addition), and yet when covering the primary Mario cast, Sakurai skipped Toad and went to the secondary cast despite Toad being one of the core characters of Mario as a whole. Why is that? Well, maybe he doesn't find Toad all that exciting of an addition and let's be real, there are and have been more popular characters (both in Mario and otherwise) for Smash and so there probably was never a point in adding him. Point is that imo, Toad alone debunks any argument of mainline relevance being considered to that extend. In terms of moveset potential and popularity (which are pretty easy to find as things Sakurai looks into for his additions), Rosalina stomps on Junior [and also, at the end of the day spin-off appearances are still game appearances, so it's not like Rosalina doesn't appear in a lot of games herself]

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think my favorite aesthetics for fighting games are the ArcSysWorka games and 2XKO.

Guilty Gear Strive my be my favorite looking video game, period.

If I could get a SF in the Alpha style that looks like that? I'd be in heaven.

It's funny, I've brought up why Smash shouldn't follow the Street Fighter method with its roster in the past.

You're right. Street Fighter should follow the Smash method with its roster!

Everyone is Here!

Street fighter characters didn't look good in 3D until Smash.

I actually really liked how they looked in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. Which looked semi-cel-shaded.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When was that said? Because if anything the biggest criteria that Sakurai chooses are moveset potential and popularity, mainline appearances are not so much deciding and I think it's very evident that it's the case that Sakurai doesn't give mainline appearances that much weight with the most glaring example being Toad. If we were going by mainline appearances, Toad would've gotten in before Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were considered (or low-key even created in Melee's case, like that's how far back Toad could've gotten in as a sensible addition), and yet when covering the primary Mario cast, Sakurai skipped Toad and went to the secondary cast despite Toad being one of the core characters of Mario as a whole. Why is that? Well, maybe he doesn't find Toad all that exciting of an addition and let's be real, there are and have been more popular characters (both in Mario and otherwise) for Smash and so there probably was never a point in adding him. Point is that imo, Toad alone debunks any argument of mainline relevance being considered to that extend. In terms of moveset potential and popularity (which are pretty easy to find as things Sakurai looks into for his additions), Rosalina stomps on Junior [and also, at the end of the day spin-off appearances are still game appearances, so it's not like Rosalina doesn't appear in a lot of games herself]

Two things: 1, it has never been stated, but it is a pretty noticeable trend. 2, the claim was that they ignore spin-off appearances when it comes to relevance, not that they only look at mainline appearances to select their characters and go down the relevance list. There are other factors obviously, but they very much tend not to pick characters who are mostly notable for their appearances in spin-offs.

 

[SPEN18]

I mean necessary is not a word that should be applied to most characters. Especially what are essentially alternate versions of existing characters, as by default those are luxuries.
It kind of goes into the conversation of how much to value clones in general, but there's also disparate views on how much to value clones that aren't technically adding another "character" in the same sense that another clone like, say, Falco does. Then Sheik/ZSS is a whole other can of worms because lore-wise they're "alternate versions" but gameplay-wise they're functionally completely separate characters (at least in 4/Ult).
Regardless of those ramblings, as I said, the small Links are definitely more luxury than necessity pretty much any way you slice it. The default expectation is they'll be on the lower end of priority but there's a chance of at least one sneaking in again. I do think Sakurai might tend to value these types of characters more than some fans do...though it's not like they have any of the typical factors of relevance, uniqueness, or overwhelming popularity (relative to other characters, and I mean at least YL probably did worse than most other vets on the ballot fwiw) going on right now, which makes it hard to frame their case around much more than that.

 

[Watuna4343]

Two things: 1, it has never been stated, but it is a pretty noticeable trend. 2, the claim was that they ignore spin-off appearances when it comes to relevance, not that they only look at mainline appearances to select their characters and go down the relevance list. There are other factors obviously, but they very much tend not to pick characters who are mostly notable for their appearances in spin-offs.

There's still nothing pointing to them ignoring spin-off appearances though? Idk what made this a noticeable trend but there's been no such signs. I mean Peach's moveset has her holding a tennis racket and a golf club of all things for example Not sure where the avoidance of spin-offs comes from but I genuinely doubt that's the case especially when it's never been stated.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

Yeah, Bowser Jr is probably more important to the Mario franchise overall, but he hasn't had the same impact on fans like Rosalina. He's a smaller Bowser, so overshadowed by his dad, and he doesn't really provoke that "awww" factor like Pikachu or Kirby for example. He had some nice character moments in the latest Mario and Luigi games, but maybe 1% of Mario fans have played that. I like him, personally, but he's not setting the world on fire as far as I can see.

Rosalina, however, had her whole big backstory- a contrast to most other main characters who don't really have a solid backstory, and she's associated with Mario Galaxy, which was kind of a big deal. I think she's got plenty of merit of her own, even if she hasn't been in a new mainline in 10 years.(I lament the fact that street musician Rosalina never became a thing in Odyssey).

 

[Louie G.]

Little Mac makes sense since Punch Out hasn't seen another title since the Wii.

I will die on the hill that snubbing Little Mac but maintaining all of Ness, Captain Falcon and Pit is unfair.

I recognize the legacy that these other characters hold within Smash, and with Sakurai, but I don't like that Punch-Out would simply be screwed over just because it came to Smash later. It's a series with strong retro appeal, a fairly successful modern(ish) adaptation, the series has like 5-6 games under its belt if you're counting the arcade / console games as separate (they are) and is still well loved and influential today. So that marks it on pretty much the same level of these other legacy picks, in some cases notably higher. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out is probably a more popular standalone game than any of them.

Little Mac was a highly requested character. In execution, despite being polarizing, he is quite a popular character to play (in my observation, a fun and simple pickup for casual players). Archetypically we don't have any other boxers, or many other "traditional" fighters outside of the fighting game boys. He single handedly represents a legacy Nintendo series and its most famous game is still one of the most frequently and heavily referenced in Nintendo "retro" material.

All that said, I cannot be 100% certain of Mac's return. I am pretty confident but not unabashedly certain given the lack of substance to Punch-Out's representation as it stands. Which makes me upset, because he really has all the credential in the world and sometimes it feels like his only crime is not being added in Melee or Brawl. Obviously I am an advocate for keeping all the other three too - I'm just pointing out that seniority is seemingly everything here.

 

[Kirbeh]

I will die on the hill that snubbing Little Mac but maintaining all of Ness, Captain Falcon and Pit is unfair.

I recognize the legacy that these other characters hold within Smash, and with Sakurai, but I don't like that Punch-Out would simply be screwed over just because it came to Smash later. It's a series with strong retro appeal, a fairly successful modern(ish) adaptation, the series has like 5-6 games under its belt if you're counting the arcade / console games as separate (they are) and is still well loved and influential today. So that marks it on pretty much the same level of these other legacy picks, in some cases notably higher. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out is probably a more popular standalone game than any of them.

Little Mac was a highly requested character. In execution, despite being polarizing, he is quite a popular character to play (in my observation, a fun and simple pickup for casual players). Archetypically we don't have any other boxers, or many other "traditional" fighters outside of the fighting game boys. He single handedly represents a legacy Nintendo series and its most famous game is still one of the most frequently and heavily referenced in Nintendo "retro" material.

All that said, I cannot be 100% certain of Mac's return. I am pretty confident but not unabashedly certain given the lack of substance to Punch-Out's representation as it stands. Which makes me upset, because he really has all the credential in the world and sometimes it feels like his only crime is not being added in Melee or Brawl.

Not really about LM's likelihood but semi-related.

I still hope that one day we get a new Punch Out where you play as Doc Louis in his prime.

 

[Louie G.]

Not really about LM's likelihood but semi-related.

I still hope that one day we get a new Punch Out where you play as Doc Louis in his prime.

My dream pitch for a new Punch-Out is somewhat similar, but would have Little Mac coaching Doc's nephew in a sort of Creed scenario.

I'd love a flashback game where we get to experience Doc Louis' career too, but I think reframing the roles and letting the characters age / change would be a refreshing way to both reward old players and soft reboot the series for new ones. Could be fun if he takes on some obvious kin from classic Punch-Out boxers too... and perhaps a well past his prime Super Macho Man, who is still "27" somehow.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

My dream pitch for a new Punch-Out is somewhat similar, but would have Little Mac coaching Doc's nephew in a sort of Creed scenario.

I'd love a flashback game where we get to experience Doc Louis' career too, but I think reframing the roles and letting the characters age / change would be a refreshing way to both reward old players and soft reboot the series for new ones. Could be fun if he takes on some obvious kin from classic Punch-Out boxers too... and perhaps a well past his prime Super Macho Man, who is still "27" somehow.

In my head for some reason I imagine the only non-kin boxers being Super Macho Man being well past his prime like you mentioned, and maybe Disco Kid being more of the typical age range for a Punch-Out cast lol

 

[Louie G.]

While we're on the topic of that 45 veteran roster thing, I'll draft something up. Probably a little controversial, perhaps intentionally so to spur on some conversation outside the usual obligatory influence of relevance or seniority, but this is less influenced by what I think is realistic and more by my own preference. Maintaining a diverse spread of playstyles, keeping things relatively proportional (assume that some series like Fire Emblem would be getting a new character... I would have thrown Ike in here but I didn't really want to remove anyone else) but not letting some of those more arbitrary things get in the way of flavorful characters standing their ground.

-Yes, I cut Villager. Nothing personal but I prefer Isabelle and in a crunched roster like this I think they play a little samey. Tom Nook is def being added anyway.
-I cheated and I'm counting Pyra / Mythra as one. Sorry. I couldn't justify it for Pokemon Trainer though, at least Pyra / Mythra are semiclones.
-K. Rool, Palutena, Falco, Jigglypuff, Incineroar etc are "flavor" picks. They're all individually popular, unique, and I think they contribute a dynamic presence.
-In Jigglypuff's case, with Pokemon Trainer being cut loose, I thought it was necessary to have a "cute" Pokemon other than Pikachu.
-Min-Min gets to stay because ARMS is the newest series on the roster right now. I don't want to be too regressive with contemporary representation.
-Sephiroth sticks around, idk. He's too cool! And feels right if I wanted to bump up Sonic and Street Fighter which I probably would.

-Characters I may have added with more space or just a slightly different mindset would be Ike, Ice Climbers and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[Ivander]

Why though there's literally nothing you can do with him that wouldn't just be bigger evil captain falcon

GX did give him some tricks that simply wasn't brute strength, something that the Project M version doesn't do or take advantage of. In GX, there is a cutscene where Black Shadow charges up an energy attack and uses it to bind Captain Falcon. And while Black Shadow is somewhat portrayed as a more brutish evil version of Falcon, GX and GP do have him more as a dirty fighter than as a straight up brute version of Captain Falcon. So whereas Ganondorf is very clearly a "Brute force through everything" character, Black Shadow in GX is alot less "brute force everything" and more "everything is fair in battle".

Though the lack of F-Zero stuff in general doesn't help any other character's chances. Sure, F-Zero can definitely use a new racing game, but considering F-Zero GX was done by the Yakuza/Like a Dragon team, I wouldn't be against an F-Zero game that had both racing and an action-style gameplay like Yakuza.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

While we're on the topic of that 45 veteran roster thing, I'll draft something up. Probably a little controversial, perhaps intentionally so to spur on some conversation outside the usual obligatory influence of relevance or seniority, but this is less influenced by what I think is realistic and more by my own preference. Maintaining a diverse spread of playstyles, keeping things relatively proportional (assume that some series like Fire Emblem would be getting a new character... I would have thrown Ike in here but I didn't really want to remove anyone else) but not letting some of those more arbitrary things get in the way of flavorful characters standing their ground.

View attachment 398830

-Yes, I cut Villager. Nothing personal but I prefer Isabelle and in a crunched roster like this I think they play a little samey. Tom Nook is def being added anyway.
-I cheated and I'm counting Pyra / Mythra as one. Sorry. I couldn't justify it for Pokemon Trainer though, at least Pyra / Mythra are semiclones.
-K. Rool, Palutena, Falco, Jigglypuff, Incineroar etc are "flavor" picks. They're all individually popular, unique, and I think they contribute a dynamic presence.
-In Jigglypuff's case, with Pokemon Trainer being cut loose, I thought it was necessary to have a "cute" Pokemon other than Pikachu.
-Min-Min gets to stay because ARMS is the newest series on the roster right now. I don't want to be too regressive with contemporary representation.
-Sephiroth sticks around, idk. He's too cool! And feels right if I wanted to bump up Sonic and Street Fighter which I probably would.

-Characters I may have added with more space or just a slightly different mindset would be Ike, Ice Climbers and Wii Fit Trainer.

Why cut Sora.

Don’t give the internet ideas.

As if I'm not doing it on purpose.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Who could've guessed that trying to rectify Nintendo's history, smash's history, and the many Nintendo adjacent third parties into a list of under 50 characters would be a challenge with no concrete answer?

 

[Guynamednelson]

but considering F-Zero GX was done by the Yakuza/Like a Dragon team

And they've successfully revived Super Monkey Ball...

...and GX was using the same engine as Super Monkey Ball...

...in which case I hope an F-Zero SX using Banana Rumble's engine is Switch 2-exclusive because Banana Rumble's framerate is terrible. I really wish it had been released as a multiplat.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Why cut Sora.

I'm not Louie obviously, but most people cut Sora because they figure Disney will be weird about making sure to get DLC money out of him, since they're the rights holders.

I'm personally of the opinion that Sora is more likely than a lot of people think just off the merits of literally being the most popular request of all time, but my opinions on the roster and possible cuts are admittedly very generous I think lol

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

While we're on the topic of that 45 veteran roster thing, I'll draft something up. Probably a little controversial, perhaps intentionally so to spur on some conversation outside the usual obligatory influence of relevance or seniority, but this is less influenced by what I think is realistic and more by my own preference. Maintaining a diverse spread of playstyles, keeping things relatively proportional (assume that some series like Fire Emblem would be getting a new character... I would have thrown Ike in here but I didn't really want to remove anyone else) but not letting some of those more arbitrary things get in the way of flavorful characters standing their ground.

View attachment 398830

This is extremely close to my own 45 vet roster.
Only being the outliers,
Whereas I have

I wonder how DLC is going to treat vets next game. It's a bit harder to charge back for stuff that was a selling point in the prior entry like returning characters, but I'm still hoping there's a 'veteran pass' that runs alongside the challenger pack releases, so as to separate speculation and avoid saltiness

 

[Louie G.]

Why cut Sora.

Well mostly because I care about him less than all these other characters, although more realistically I suspect he'll make it back as at least DLC.

Who could've guessed that trying to rectify Nintendo's history, smash's history, and the many Nintendo adjacent third parties into a list of under 50 characters would be a challenge with no concrete answer?

Of course - that's why it's fun though, the different perspectives hopefully just encourage people to think about how many ways this question COULD be answered. Personally I'm just trying to encourage people to think outside the box toward considerations like roster dynamics over simple new game = safe character mentality, or the obligatory "well they have to be here" for x or y (which really, really adds up and can sterilize the roster).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like Toon Link as a concept but I really wish he had SOMETHING that was more unique.

Giving him the Deku Leaf after up special and Skull Hammer for like side special or something would instantly make him more distinct and fun to play. And that's just two moves, I think it's totally doable without draining resources from other characters.

Actually am quite sure if they change up something to be the Deku Leaf for Toon Link they will end up doing the same thing for Link with his sailcloth.

The Spin Attack also really could be implemented differently yeah, like a Down Smash or something.

 

[SharkLord]

While we're on the topic of that 45 veteran roster thing, I'll draft something up. Probably a little controversial, perhaps intentionally so to spur on some conversation outside the usual obligatory influence of relevance or seniority, but this is less influenced by what I think is realistic and more by my own preference. Maintaining a diverse spread of playstyles, keeping things relatively proportional (assume that some series like Fire Emblem would be getting a new character... I would have thrown Ike in here but I didn't really want to remove anyone else) but not letting some of those more arbitrary things get in the way of flavorful characters standing their ground.

View attachment 398830

-Yes, I cut Villager. Nothing personal but I prefer Isabelle and in a crunched roster like this I think they play a little samey. Tom Nook is def being added anyway.
-I cheated and I'm counting Pyra / Mythra as one. Sorry. I couldn't justify it for Pokemon Trainer though, at least Pyra / Mythra are semiclones.
-K. Rool, Palutena, Falco, Jigglypuff, Incineroar etc are "flavor" picks. They're all individually popular, unique, and I think they contribute a dynamic presence.
-In Jigglypuff's case, with Pokemon Trainer being cut loose, I thought it was necessary to have a "cute" Pokemon other than Pikachu.
-Min-Min gets to stay because ARMS is the newest series on the roster right now. I don't want to be too regressive with contemporary representation.
-Sephiroth sticks around, idk. He's too cool! And feels right if I wanted to bump up Sonic and Street Fighter which I probably would.

-Characters I may have added with more space or just a slightly different mindset would be Ike, Ice Climbers and Wii Fit Trainer.

Oh hey, I think the roster I made a while ago shares most of the veterans with yours

For the points where we diverge:

1. Palu and Falco were dropped because I was tight on space and trying to squeeze in a lot of newcomers. That said I dunno how the general reception would be for Fox and Krystal but no Falco. Krystal would be more distinct, at least, but Falco seems to be Fox's No. 2, and the Smash fanbase seems quite fond of him.
2. I ended up keeping Villager as well. They're often used in marketing alongside Isabelle - Hell, I've been to the Nintendo store in Kyoto and the bags they put your stuff in have both Isabelle and a Villager on them and no-one else - And Animal Crossing's gotten big enough I reasoned it would warrant three fighters
3. The Pokemon lineup is unrealistically small, but I wanted to limit myself to four fighters a series (Though Mario cheated that due to his myriad subseries). Pikachu was a must, and then I went with the top 3 of the 2020 Pokemon of the Year poll, since that seemed like the largest official poll in recent memory. So I ended up keeping Greninja, but also Lucario, and Mimikyu ended up in their too. Pokemon just has such a wide variety of options, so it was tricky paring it down.
4. I got Marth but no Robin. Robin's probably the most distinct Fire Emblem character on the roster, but... I dunno. Marth's the Fire Emblem guy, Lyn was the first Lord the West saw in an FE game and is super popular for it, Ike is also beloved, and Edelgard is the most popular character from the biggest game in the series, so Robin was kinda edged out. I slotted in Lucina as a somewhat-tweaked Echo so we can still cover Awakening, since that got FE off life support, but the "four full fighters a series" limit left me tight for space
5. For the third-parties, it was partially that I had so many Nintendo characters there wasn't much space left, and partially that I wanted to focus on Nintendo-centric guests, at least for the base game. I specifically chose Erdrick for that reason, since FF7 is largely associated with PlayStation. Castlevania leans more Nintendo-based, but again, roster space is limited. With Ryu, he's definitely big enough to stay in, but I dunno, Street Fighter doesn't seem uniquely tied to Nintendo in that way. I associate the series more with arcades than anything, and modern games tend to release more on PlayStation. Sora admittedly cheats that rule, but he did win the ballot and closed off Ultimate, so I thought he deserved to be there.
6. That said, I'm debating Bayonetta's presence here; She's basically an honorary first-party now, but Platinum's in rough waters, Kamiya's left for Clovers, and Bayo 3 got middling reception and sold less than the ports of Bayo 1 and 2, which is astonishing given how well Switch games tend to do. If I drop her, I'd probably switch her out for Banjo, since he's basically an honorary first-party as well, but one could make a strong case for Simon, as listed above; Terry, for KoF inspiring Smash; and Steve, for Minecraft being the best-selling game ever.

Hmm... That's about 41 veterans, meaning about 19 newcomer. Maybe I should take a stab at a 45 Vets/15 Newcomers roster and see how much that changes.

 

[Jave]

My dream pitch for a new Punch-Out is somewhat similar, but would have Little Mac coaching Doc's nephew in a sort of Creed scenario.

I'd love a flashback game where we get to experience Doc Louis' career too, but I think reframing the roles and letting the characters age / change would be a refreshing way to both reward old players and soft reboot the series for new ones. Could be fun if he takes on some obvious kin from classic Punch-Out boxers too... and perhaps a well past his prime Super Macho Man, who is still "27" somehow.

My most wanted Punch-Out game would be one with an all-female cast. THAT would be a different take on the series.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

My most wanted Punch-Out game would be one with an all-female cast. THAT would be a different take on the series.

Maybe then they could follow up on that scrapped Punch Out Wii idea where Peach is a secret fight, like how they chose DK in that game in her stead.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Maybe then they could follow up on that scrapped Punch Out Wii idea where Peach is a secret fight, like how they chose DK in that game in her stead.

It would be funnier if DK was still inexplicably on the roster

 

[Wonder Smash]

Not really about LM's likelihood but semi-related.

I still hope that one day we get a new Punch Out where you play as Doc Louis in his prime.

My dream pitch for a new Punch-Out is somewhat similar, but would have Little Mac coaching Doc's nephew in a sort of Creed scenario.

I'd love a flashback game where we get to experience Doc Louis' career too, but I think reframing the roles and letting the characters age / change would be a refreshing way to both reward old players and soft reboot the series for new ones. Could be fun if he takes on some obvious kin from classic Punch-Out boxers too... and perhaps a well past his prime Super Macho Man, who is still "27" somehow.

For a new Punch-Out!!, I would stick with Little Mac but I would love to see them bring back the SNES opponents, along with some new ones. Of course, as with many series, it's gotta have some mainstays and my personal ones will always be Bald Bull, Mr. Sandman, Super Macho Man, and King Hippo.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

The Spin Attack also really could be implemented differently yeah, like a Down Smash or something.

If it has to be Up special then it could be a grounded exclusive move while using it in the air is a different move entirely.

Also Toon Link should get the Hurricane Spin which was a custom move in Smash 4 but wasn’t added again. Also in PM.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm not sure if this has already been suggested before, but you know what I think could be a cool change for Ganondorf's moveset? They could change his Up Special to something more similar to either Marth or Ike's Up Special, where he uses his sword.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm not sure if this has already been suggested before, but you know what I think could be a cool change for Ganondorf's moveset? They could change his Up Special to something more similar to either Marth or Ike's Up Special, where he uses his sword.

Honestly this. While I'm actually not too fond of his current sword Smashes a "DP but sword" would suit him well imo. It could inherit the old Melee Side Special name too. Call it the Gerudo Dragon to drive home the DP/DS idea.

 

[Shinuto]

Here's idea for item. Choice band, like in pokemon you're locked to the first special move you use after putting it on but the power is greatly increased

 

[Louie G.]

Oh hey, I think the roster I made a while ago shares most of the veterans with yours

Is this more of a "what I would do" roster like mine, or is it a prediction?

I don't want to critique too hard if it's just the former, although if it's the latter I'm struck by the absence of Ryu and either Snake / Simon. I think removing all three fighting game characters is uncalled for and Street Fighter has more of a presence in Smash and influence on the roster than practically any other third party in the game. I spoke on this the other day but Ryu essentially introduced a brand new archetype into Smash that has been iterated on twice already. Cutting it loose off shaky Nintendo connection doesn't feel justified. As for the Konami guys, I really just think this community undersells Konami for no reason. They've proven themselves one of the most cooperative participants and are easily one of the most massive Japanese companies available... Smash 4 is one thing, but there's nothing in the present that signifies to me that Nintendo and Konami won't continue to be best buds.

Palutena is an understandable cut if push comes to shove (iirc she was on your roster at some point, and you swapped her for Little Mac or something? If it has to be one or the other then you made the right choice here lol) but if Star Fox will be a two character series I think it would be odd if Krystal was one of those characters. I like her but over both Falco AND Wolf is a bold move in this instance of not-quite-a-reboot-but-toys-with-being-one. I think to justify a big status quo change like that the roster would need to change quite a bit more. Does that make sense, I dunno.

And uhh... oh right, I don't actually think Villager has any reason to be cut, I just think they have a fair bit of functional overlap with Isabelle and I consider her to be a strongly viable character to represent the series on her own. So just for the sake of crunching down my roster it was easy for me to do... in a prediction roster, it would actually be a pretty stupid thing to do for the reasons you mentioned and more.

At the end of the day I know we've all only got so much space. But I feel like these are at least viable things to keep in mind. You have a lot of newcomers so I feel like shedding off two or three to make some extra veteran accommodations wouldn't be too bad.

 

[BrawlX10]

There’s a lot of debate on who exactly those 45 veterans will be.

Spoiler: Expand for thoughts on veteran chances, since people don’t like hearing too much about cuts

Obviously, who I will dub the ‘Core 12’ are absolute shoe-ins, being:



If Smash was made today, besides maybe Wario, all twelve of these guys would make it in. I see no reason to remove ANY of them.

Apart from that, your obvious supporting picks would return too, both old and new, such as:


Characters like Ridley, Greninja, Isabelle, and Pyra/Mythra are a good lineup for future mainstays.

… That’s already over half of the veterans I can see coming back. We’re at 28 for now.

Let’s add another group of likely veterans, being your single game and/or legacy representatives.


More supplemental veterans. I think these guys likely have just one more game in them before being cut in the game after Smash 6 if current trends continue.


A 50/50 selection here for Mario and Pokémon though. No idea what they’ll do here. If there’s any previous cut I could see coming back, it’s Mewtwo, but I wouldn’t put all of my eggs in that basket.
(OR) (OR)
Right now, I’m feeling Rosalina and Incineroar to return.

And that just leaves the third parties, being…


It does suck, yes. But these are generally the faces I could see returning. 45 veterans. We’ll probably see more in DLC, but here we are.

Looking at newcomers, I think my standard selection works out, bar a few changes.

• Paper Mario (Super Mario)
• Toy Link (The Legend of Zelda)
• Ring Fit Trainee (Ring Fit Adventure)
• Mio (Xenoblade Chronicles)
• Pearl & Marina (Splatoon)
• Isaac (Golden Sun)
• Oatchi (Pikmin)
• Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
• Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
• Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
• Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
• Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
• Meowscarada (Pokémon)
• Alear (Fire Emblem)
• Waluigi (Super Mario)

15 unique base game newcomers. Maybe not as exciting as Ultimate’s, but it’s good for what it is.

And finally, the dread word Smash fans don’t like to hear… CLONES. First of all, veteran echoes.
, alongside either OR.

In terms of new echoes, here’s a list.

• Octoling (Splatoon), for
• Nia (Xenoblade Chronicles), for Mio
• Funky Kong (Donkey Kong), for

Yeah, this selection might not be much, but it’s at least fresh. It’s just how I could squeeze my top picks for Smash 6 into a roster smaller than Ultimate’s.

Pearl & Marina over Callie & Marie, Nio over Noah, Toy Link and Isaac are interesting choices, not bad or anything through, they just stod out to me.
Personally i would have 49 veterans and 11 base game newcomers, 15 feels a bit too much.
I would add Falco, Ice Climbers, Bayonetta and King K Rool as the 4 extra ones., definitely Rosalina and Mewtwo over Jr and Incineroar. i would replace Min Min with R.O.B as well.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I'd say 15 is definitely an overestimation newcomer-wise, methinks.
My current prediction technically has 16 newcomers, but three of those (Dixie, Octoling, Shadow) I wouldn't really consider on the same level as a true newcomer since I'm envisioning all of them being, at best, semi-clones of other characters. A couple of others on my list (Impa, RFT) are replacing previous characters, and while I imagine they would be more unique compared to the semiclone-at-best examples, I'd still say somewhere around 11-13 unique numbers is the maximum I can see base game going. 15 is unlikely, and 20+ is just right out.

 

[chocolatejr9]

My most wanted Punch-Out game would be one with an all-female cast. THAT would be a different take on the series.

I remember back when Next Level Games was bought out, it gave me the idea for an updated version of Punch-Out Wii but with a brand new all-female campaign mode. Admittedly, though, I'm not entirely sure how people would feel about the potential female stereotypes that might get added: allegedly, that was part of the reason the Wii game was the final one (I say "allegedly" because apparently there's evidance suggesting otherwise, but I don't remember the full story).

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

You know, the likes of Ultimate had no cuts, meaning no cuts from even Smash 4 were done. I am thinking after two games with no cuts, I think we might see a lot more cuts than usual due to Everyone is Here and all that. I think we'll see a lot of cuts in the form of a combination of Smash 4 and Ultimate newcomers, as well as the games before, of course, you know what I mean?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The full scope of the next Smash is probably the most frustrating unknown x factor of speculation. Given the obvious success of Ultimate, the commonsense wisdom is that the next entry's ambitions and scope would be significant as that's one of the strategies that led to the 2018 game's success. But Nintendo and Sakurai are the types to zig when many expect to zag, and while the easy guess is basically Ultimate plus characters and some additions, I think there's a general understanding that it could just easily be something entirely different.

It's what makes roster selection feel so hard to really gauge because we simply don't know what the emphasis will be or what the development sees as the most valuable. Smash characters range from creative novelties, to promotions, to acknowledgement of major gaming figures and outside remarkably niche clones like Pichu or Young Link, one really can look SSBU's fighters and make a case for almost all of them based on some criteria that's been shown as being notable in the series before.

It's a no duh prediction, but the only safe thing I can say is that third party figures will be a prominent part of it because the Switch's success has brought interest by so many companies in having stronger relationships with Nintendo and Smash is one of the most practical means of doing it.

 

[BrawlX10]

Might as well put my roster prediction:

Returning Veterans Base game: (56)




Mii


Returning as DLC (7):

Cut Completely (13) :


56 vets + 12 newcomers = 68 base game

 

[RileyXY1]

I've got my own take on which veterans I would bring back if I could only bring back 45:



These are the first 8. They are the starting roster of the original Smash Bros., and no way are they leaving. They are far too iconic and although some like DK and Fox are from inactive series they have still earned their place in Smash.



There's no way any of these characters are getting cut either. They are very iconic characters and are faces of franchises that are central to modern Nintendo. That's now 20 characters.



Here's some more characters that are pretty big. As for FE Ike is one of the most popular lords in the series while Robin and Byleth represent two of the franchises's most successful games and offer very unique movesets. Lucario and Greninja are two of the most popular Pokemon of all time, while Captain Falcon, Ness, and Pit, despite coming from inactive or finished series, are some of the most popular characters in the game, with Sakurai himself even reviving Pit's franchise with Kid Icarus Uprising for the 3DS in 2012. That's now 28 characters.



This is the final batch of first parties. Mewtwo and Charizard are two very popular Pokemon, while Meta Knight, King Dedede, Diddy Kong, and Ridley are very iconic first parties, while Pyra and Mythra make it back due to the success of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Due to Sakurai for some reason liking having a small Link running around Toon Link gets to stay. As far as retro reps go Mr. Game & Watch won out due to his more unique aesthetics. That's now 38 characters.



And now onto the third parties. Sonic, Snake, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, and Simon are all iconic characters in their own right, so they get to stay. Kazuya took the final spot due to Namco presumably developing the game which makes it easier to ask for him back.

So this is my final list: