Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

how do you guys feel are the chances of characters like Sans, Zagreus, Hollow Knight, Hat Kid and the like joining Smash Bros as Fighters?

I think ATs and premium Mii costumes is the appropriate level of representation for indie characters.

It looks like I’ve been here since 2009 but I’m not exactly sure when I started actually speculating about Smash here.

I joined in 2014, but didn't start posting regularly till 2018.

I kind of regret naming myself Gengar84 here as my modder name was Aafyre and I’ve been using that as my gaming alias ever since. I think I named my account here before I decided to just make Aafyre my alias everywhere else.

I've been DarthEnder for as long as I've been using the internet.

Star Wars + Ender's Game.

I like my username because all these years later people are still surprised when they figure out it's a pun.

 

[MBRedboy31]

My name is based on a Lego OC, Red Boy (he wore an all red outfit and a red baseball cap, obviously) whom I made when I was, like, 6, and I just decided to keep using that username everywhere. (My LEGO sigfig nowadays is a different one.) 31 was just the auto-suggestion on Lego's website since just "Redboy" as a username was already taken.

MB just stands for “Message Boards.” I had to make a second account on Lego’s website years ago since my original one wasn’t working on their message boards (R.I.P. Lego Message Boards, btw…) for some reason, so I added MB to the start of my username for that account. I afterward decided that it sounds cooler that way and kept the MB for all other websites

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Guys. You're not gonna believe this but...I like puppies. Also Earthbound reference + name of game we talk about.


I actually don't use this username anymore. The older I get the less I like it, especially since it can raise some eyebrows in spaces that aren't familiar with EarthBound...which is pretty much just anywhere that isn't here. lol

 

[Pupp135]

Guys. You're not gonna believe this but...I like puppies. Also Earthbound reference + name of game we talk about.


I actually don't use this username anymore. The older I get the less I like it, especially since it can raise some eyebrows in spaces that aren't familiar with EarthBound...which is pretty much just anywhere that isn't here. lol

I also came up with username because I like puppies.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

My username came from MUGEN.

Was even very Entei-styled overall when starting out years ago.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Swampasaur was originally just Swampert and Venusaur smooshed together.

Kid me was very dumb. But it stuck.

 

[ninjahmos]

My username comes from the fact that I think ninjas are cool, and the addition of the "h" is inspired by the name Jah, which is often mentioned in reggae music.

Some of you may already know this, but Jah is actually another name for God.

 

[Wonder Smash]

My username is reference to both Smash and The Wonderful 101, which was what I playing when I made this account. That game was so fun! A lot of characters had Wonder in their names, like Wonder Red, Wonder Blue, Wonder Green, and Wonder Yellow. So since I'm a Smash centered site, I'll just be Wonder Smash.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Golden Sun + Kid Icarus

My two favorite franchises that I only ever discovered because of Smash. Also I like gold and greek myths and the way it sounds. In hindsight I would have preferred a name with more…identity? But I’m comfortable with it, although it has the same problem as most usernames I had back when I was a teenager in that it’s a specific reference that only this fandom would understand, so I don’t really use it anywhere else.

I did this nonsense all the time. My username on the MK and SF forums I used to visit are also just mashups of my favorite characters. Luckily this isn’t a habit I have anymore lol

 

[MBRedboy31]

edit: ehh, forget it

 

[SharkLord]

Anyways I've put together my personal 45 veteran-15 newcomer roster (Excluding Echoes)

My previous rosters prioritized first-parties, which often meant I was fairly crunched for third-parties. This time around, I started with the third-parties and budgeted the rest of my vets around them. Then I worked out the newcomers, and finished by adding in Echoes I thought would be fitting. We're not sure exactly how Echoes compare to full fighters - A while back someone worked out that Melee clones must be less than a sixth of a full fighter, but more distinct Ken-style Echoes could go up to half the effort of a full fighter - So I'll admit, the ten Echoes are kinda cheating.

I went into detail for my decisions, but it ended as a bit of an unwieldy yapathon so I'll put my reasoning in spoilers. Give it a read if you want to, but if it's too much you can just look at the roster and call it a day

Spoiler: Third-Party Vets

Since I started with the third-parties, I'll explain them first. I capped myself at 9 for veterans, a fifth of the vets (Again, sans Echoes). I mainly focused on fighters closely tied to Nintendo, but I also made room for those who have a strong influence in Smash specifically. Aside from Final Fantasy, where most of the rights are divied up between different holders, most companies shouldn't be too difficult to negotiate with, so I didn't worry myself about that too much.

• holds an important part as the mascot of Nintendo's most iconic rivalry, has a strong presence on Nintendo systems for decades, and thus far is the only third-party to have starred in three Smash games
• is the mascot of Bandai-Namco, Smash's current developers, and is an icon of gaming in general. Needs little elaboration
• are icons of the NES era and continued to have strong ties to Nintendo, especially handhelds for the first two
• scored highly on the ballot and are regarded as honorary Nintendo characters
• are associated with arcades more than anything, but Street Fighter II codified the fighting game genre as a whole, and a game of KoF is what led Sakurai to create Smash itself. Plus, as Louie G. has argued lately, Ryu's set something of an archetype for traditional fighting game characters in Smash, which gives him an outsized influence in the roster
• straight up won the ballot. I rarely say this, but he's earned it. Besides, Disney was actually completely on board with Sora in Smash, so it shouldn't be too hard to get him back.

Spoiler: First-Party Vets

The third-party selection left me about 36 slots for first-parties. I started with mascots and main characters, then worked my way down to important supporting characters from major series. Aside from retro characters with only a couple games on older systems, I tried to preserve at least one fighter for each series represented so far.

• are the main characters of their games, and therefore the primary representation. Sometimes they might take a backseat, but for the most part, if you pick up a game from their series you'll see these guys
• are from RPGs with rotating casts, but they're the first of their series' reps in Smash and serve as the "primary" rep for their games
• : technically aren't the main characters, but are part of ensemble casts and/or serve as mascots for their games, letting them serve similar functions. I considered keeping Villager, but they and Isabelle have fairly similar kits and there's only so much room with 45 slots, so I went with Isabelle as the primary AC rep
• originated as supporting characters from the Mario series, but got big enough to branch out into their own subseries, and that's pretty major
• represents retro games as a whole, being the oldest fighter on the roster, and the Game & Watch being an important part of Nintendo's history

That's about 21 "main characters," leaving about 15 slots left for supporting characters

• haven't broken off into their own subseries yet, but they're big enough deals to be the main character of a game, and that says a lot to their status in the series. Also it's Peach and Zelda I can't just drop them
• are major villains from fairly-to-seriously big franchises. Ridley and K. Rool were also hot requests for the longest time, and it'd be a shame to just drop them immediately
• are mainstays in both Smash and their respective series
• / represent breakout hits from their home series. I was originally going to have Ike here, but when I added Edelgard, I realized Robin gave a better dynamic for the series - Swift fencer, mage, heavy weapon, as opposed to swift fencer and two heavy weapons. Obviously Edelgard could fight differently from Ike, being more refined and implementing more magic, but there's only so much room to go around and Robin just stood out more.
• were the two highest scorers on the Pokemon of the Year 2020 Google poll, which is the most comprehensive poll for the series in recent memory. Realistically there should probably be more, but I wanted to give other series more room to breathe.
• was the last fighter added. Palutena's a decently popular character who's fairly distinct in terms of aesthetic and abilities, and that led me to keep her in. Villager, Rosalina, and the Ice Climbers were close runner-ups, but ultimately Palu won out.

Spoiler: Newcomers

And then for the fifteen newcomers. There's not too much room here, so I mainly looked to series that have gotten major releases in the Switch era.

• Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are Nintendo's biggest IPs, so they get a fighter. Waluigi's a popular request, Mimikyu was third place for the aforementioned PotY poll, and Midna... Well, if Swamp's poll is any indication, it's a tight race for Zelda reps, so choosing a character was kinda "vibes-based." Midna seemed pretty cool and I hear she's basically the real main character of Twilight Princess, so...
• Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Ring Fit Adventure, and Kirby have all crossed the 10 million copies line, AC and RFA both with just a single game. Tom Nook and Bandana Waddle Dee are simply the last members of their series' core main characters not in Smash yet, and Ring Fit Trainee is the player character, so they're easy choices. With Off the Hook, they're the most popular of the idol groups, and I believe they'd have more moveset potential than the Squid Sisters, between their signature weapons and stuff they've done in the DLC campaigns.
• Fire Emblem, Pikmin, Metroid, and Xenoblade Chronicles have all grown quite a bit during the Switch era, so they get fighters as well. Edelgard is the most popular character from the best-selling Fire Emblem game, Oatchi essentially acts as another player character in Pikmin 4 and would be more distinct than the P4 avatar, Raven Beak is a very popular villain from Metroid's biggest installment, and Noah's one of the main characters from XC3. Some rosters add Mio over Noah, but Noah has his game's Monado (And also my brother binged the Xenoblade games lately and his explainations of XC3 keep devolving into TACHYON SLASH TACHYON SLASH TACHYON SLASH so I can only assume Noah has that Special Sauce)
• Astral Chain, aside from Ring Fit, is one of the biggest new IPs of the Switch era, so Legionis it is. There isn't really a canon name for the main character (and Akira is not the main character stop calling them @#$%ing Akira), so I went with Legionis, the term used for everyone who uses a Legion. Kinda like Pokemon Trainer, or Villager.
• Golden Sun is kinda dormant right now, but Isaac has been a fairly popular request for quite a while, so I'll give him a pass. Him being from a less active IP also gives a bit of variety to the mostly Switch-centric newcomer lineup
• Shadow is a mainstay for Sonic, popular enough to be the main character of his own campaigns and get a whole year dedicated to him, honors no other character gets nowadays beyond Sonic himself. He's also a popular request for Smash, and has been long enough that he's the only Assist Trophy to be featured in Smash 4's intro.
• Monster Hunter has become a juggernaut IP for Capcom, both on the Switch and in general. Monster Hunter has also had a strong presence on Nintendo consoles, with Monster Hunter Rise being the best-selling third-party game on the Switch.

 

[Nickthebrick1]

What do you guys think of his assessment. He makes a lot of good points.

 

[McSpanker]

I just thought my username sounded funny when I was 12 lol. been almost 20 years since I came up with it

 

[RodNutTakin]

What do you guys think of his assessment. He makes a lot of good points.

I can't give a straight answer when the template he chose is just objectively...shallow and not good from a character selection standpoint.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

What do you guys think of his assessment. He makes a lot of good points.

I agree with most points here surprisingly. Tho one am somewhat Iffy on is his placement of the Chosen undead from Dark souls Vs The Tarnished from Elden Ring. He makes the point that we probably get Chosen undead since his games came first and Dark souls is on Nintendo unlike Elden ring. But this argument is giving me Shin Megami tensei would get a character before Persona in smash flash backs all over again. I think the most recent title of a series being super popular recently can sometimes beat the character choice in smash compared to the first or more classic character from that same series joining the game instead.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Even games like Undertale where popular was hitting moon with during the time of Ballot?

Undertale released only a month before the Ballot ended meaning that a character like Sans probably didn’t get that much votes because of bad timing.

Not even sure if that game sold huge numbers since lot of its popularity back then was because of YouTube and the internet in general.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What do you guys think of his assessment. He makes a lot of good points.

Couldn't tell ya. Cause there's no way I'm watching a 7 hour video.

 

[Shinuto]

I thought of my username back in the mid 2000s as a Japanese ish sounding name and it's stuck since for me.

I can't give a straight answer when the template he chose is just objectively...shallow and not good from a character selection standpoint.

I agree on a lot of points but I'm tired of people overinflating Sans potential. Like every interpretation I see for a moveset in smash has never felt truly "Sans" you know? I think he's but more difficult to pull off than people think.

I can't give a straight answer when the template he chose is just objectively...shallow and not good from a character selection standpoint.

what do you mean? Template?

 

[fogbadge]

Usernames? well mine obviously is a pokemon prize. what can I say? when I joined HG was still fresh in my mind and Morty was my favourite gym leader from the game

 

[Diddy Kong]

My username ie obvious. Passion for the DKC series and Diddy is my favorite character ever. I also used this username to rally for Diddy support for a Smash Bros past Melee.

I joined when I was 14 or so.

 

[Stratos]

Regarding the ballot for newcomers to future Super Smash Bros games, I was thinking that maybe there should be an AI that only accepts video game characters and non-video game characters related to Nintendo, such as Daitouryou and Tengu from Nintendo's hanafuda cards, Nester from Nintendo Power magazine, Mini Kangaroo from the Mini Games series, and Kevin Keene from the Captain N: The Game Master series. In other words, we could suggest a character and write where they come from, and have this AI process and accept only those who come from video games and non-video game characters related to Nintendo.

 

[Lionfranky]

What do you guys think of his assessment. He makes a lot of good points.

I do object some of reasoning sound contradictory. He mentions Japanese factor which still should apply to Doom Slayer, but simply gloss over.