Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[HyperSomari64]

Anyways, memes aside.
Who do you think are the most overlooked 3rd party newcomers?
I'd say Adol from Ys, Arthur from GnG and Zagreus from Hades are a bit overlooked.

Anyone from Hyperdimension Neptunia.
Any character is OK to be added

 

[Watuna4343]

I think a lot of the unlockable characters in each game are ones they added later in development, not just the clones and other characters confirmed to be added later like Sonic. So maybe Wario was just low priority for a while? Don't ask me why that would be beyond Sakurai thinking 4's roster would be Brawl-sized in 2013.

I discussed this a bit before but it's possible Wario was developed later simply because there were a number of other Mario reps prioritized before him, and they wanted to make enough characters from other series before making Wario.

See, my problem with the 'late additions' argument is that Brawl doesn't exactly support that. Except for the obvious fact that Snake was in the first trailer but we can chalk it up to 'first 3rd party, therefore possible exception' etc. But also in Brawl, characters like ROB and Marth had very big roles in Subspace Emissary. And with knowing how big of a part of Brawl's development Subspace was, it's hard to imagine how at least characters like these 2 weren't planned from the beginning, given again, how big they are in that mode. But also doesn't Wario technically rep his own series? Obviously, he's moreso a Mario character but in Smash he reps his own spin-offs. Would be weird to say that he'd be in the same box as Mario characters and it would be extra weird given that Sakurai did say that even from Melee if he had a little more time he would've added Wario, so to go to low priority like that (and be put in a box with technically a different series) would be pretty weird.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Nice of Sakurai to add Bayonetta to Smash despite already crossing over with Anarchy Reigns.

 

[Kirbeh]

See, my problem with the 'late additions' argument is that Brawl doesn't exactly support that. Except for the obvious fact that Snake was in the first trailer but we can chalk it up to 'first 3rd party, therefore possible exception' etc. But also in Brawl, characters like ROB and Marth had very big roles in Subspace Emissary. And with knowing how big of a part of Brawl's development Subspace was, it's hard to imagine how at least characters like these 2 weren't planned from the beginning, given again, how big they are in that mode. But also doesn't Wario technically rep his own series? Obviously, he's moreso a Mario character but in Smash he reps his own spin-offs. Would be weird to say that he'd be in the same box as Mario characters and it would be extra weird given that Sakurai did say that even from Melee if he had a little more time he would've added Wario, so to go to low priority like that (and be put in a box with technically a different series) would be pretty weird.

I honestly think Wario being unlockable is just a Sakurai-ism. (And by Sakurai-ism, I mean just because he felt like it. Don't think there was too deep of a reason.)

Complete conjecture on my part but I think Wario would've been unlockable back in Melee had he been included.

With a new series under his belt, Wario got to be a headliner in Brawl. Then going into Smash 4 Sakurai just wanted more unlockable characters and with Luigi being a starter for once Wario just happened to fill that spot? Idk, hard to say really.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Honestly Wario being unlockable in Smash 4 was probably just random since there are characters that are inconsistent if they will be unlockable or available from the start. Luigi and Captain Falcon are notable examples.

Same thing here, except I don't know why Lucas was made a starter in Brawl. He honestly should've been unlockable.

Probably the same reason as Ike who was available from the start while Marth was unlockable.

I think Lucas being newer than Ness while also having a bigger role in Subspace is probably why.

Ness appears early enough for one section that he was likely planned from the start but had debates if he was going to be replaced with Lucas like in Melee.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Anyone from Hyperdimension Neptunia.
Any character is OK to be added

I think the funniest possible thing a Neptunia character could do is not being Neptune, the main character, but being Blanc instead, since she's the Nintendo expy.

 

[Noipoi]

Same thing here, except I don't know why Lucas was made a starter in Brawl. He honestly should've been unlockable.

To taunt us filthy Westerners with a character from a game we’d never get to play

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Anyways, memes aside.
Who do you think are the most overlooked 3rd party newcomers?
I'd say Adol from Ys, Arthur from GnG and Zagreus from Hades are a bit overlooked.

I've mentioned EXE from the Mega Man series of the same name a few times before I so won't go on about him again, but with Capcom, I think Amaterasu might be a bit more in play than many might think. We do know that Okami is getting a new game and that there's been a solid history of the series on Nintendo (with the Wii/Switch ports getting solid acclaim and the DS getting an exclusive sequel). Plus given how distinct she is as a quadruped fighter with Celestial Brush powers, and you'd have a genuinely impactful reveal.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It's like Coin Battle, but with a shared health bar and it has Optimus Prime

Honestly the weirdest crossover line up ive ever seen in a fighting game.

Takara x Konami with a roster made up of series like Castlevania, Metal Gear, Bomberman, Transformers and Beyblade.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Again, Crash is one of the few Western game franchises to find blockbuster success in Japan. That alone should tell you that his popularity wasn't something that just magically sprung up in the Smash fandom after Banjo's reveal.

You think this phrase gets posted ad nauseum you think he be a lock already with the Fighting Pass already but he wasn't. Almost as if that never mattered in terms of Crash's chances

Also, and this is just an acknowledgement of the facts and not an indictment of Rayman or anything, but Rayman's spirit is far from "a foot in the door" for playability. The literal only reason he has it (and his 4 trophy) is because Nintendo published Rayman Legends in Japan.

More consideration from Nintendo than Crash has gotten. If Nintendo went out their away to publish Rayman's games, naturally they would view the series in high regard

Any time Nabbitfan joins in, it always turns into a debate of sales numbers as if that was the only thing that actually mattered.

Not trying to make a point. Just making the observation

Then stop bringing up with same line on Japanese support....What do you want me to do with this information?

 

[SPEN18]

See, my problem with the 'late additions' argument is that Brawl doesn't exactly support that. Except for the obvious fact that Snake was in the first trailer but we can chalk it up to 'first 3rd party, therefore possible exception' etc. But also in Brawl, characters like ROB and Marth had very big roles in Subspace Emissary. And with knowing how big of a part of Brawl's development Subspace was, it's hard to imagine how at least characters like these 2 weren't planned from the beginning, given again, how big they are in that mode. But also doesn't Wario technically rep his own series? Obviously, he's moreso a Mario character but in Smash he reps his own spin-offs. Would be weird to say that he'd be in the same box as Mario characters and it would be extra weird given that Sakurai did say that even from Melee if he had a little more time he would've added Wario, so to go to low priority like that (and be put in a box with technically a different series) would be pretty weird.

I mean, first of all, it really doesn't have to be consistent with Brawl in order to be true for Smash 4, as the philosophy on unlockable characters has kind of shifted from game to game. In Smash 4 it is, at least to me, very clear when you look at the list that those characters were all pretty much low or lowish in priority. Note though that it's not so much that the characters were made unlockable, more that they were revealed for the game very late (perhaps even more correctly that they weren't revealed early, as early reveals couldn't possibly be low priority); but in Smash 4 at least, the notions simply end up coinciding for the most part.

Nevertheless, as is pointed out above, Marth/Ness being unlockable in Brawl could simply have to do with wanting to promote the newcomer choices in these rotating cast series. In any case, Marth/Ness (and you can throw in Luigi) are basically the earliest unlocks in Brawl, which would actually fit with them being just below the highest-priority characters, if we were to attempt to make the theory fit there (I mean Brawl's roster wasn't very big compared to 4's and over a third of it was unlockable). ROB has a big role in SSE, yes, though technically most of that role doesn't even necessitate playable ROB being a thing, and his reveal as the Ancient Minister is pretty late. If ROB was somehow not finished in time you could pretty easily edit things to make it fit with ROB not being playable, if we're being honest. That said, ROB was definitely planned from the start and there likely wasn't much doubt he'd make it for Brawl; however, I do think it makes sense that he'd be a lower priority newcomer than most of the others.

Keep in mind that even low priority characters are almost all planned from the start, they just, well, definitionally are not prioritized to be started and/or finished as highly, and may not be locked in for the roster completely until it can be determined with more absolute certainty that the devs will have enough time to finish them.

In the case of Wario, anyway, it's all pretty moot because he's not getting cut lol. All it means for him is he might not get started and finished alongside all the highest priority characters to ensure there's enough series diversity before getting around to him, but he'll be ranked high enough among those others to never really be in danger of the total chopping block.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You think this phrase gets posted ad nauseum you think he be a lock already with the Fighting Pass already but he wasn't. Almost as if that never mattered in terms of Crash's chances

I love how you're adamant that Crash is a has-been because he's not in Smash.

I won't lie and say I'm frankly GLAD he's not there solely because of how annoying everyone was about how he "had to be the one" and that "this was all a part of Activision's 5 year plan on Crash", but that doesn't mean Crash is a nobody these days, far from it.

He's still from a big legacy IP that people still remember fondly which got some good games that people really love and the IP itself would still be active if Activision didn't decide to put all their focus on the yearly CoDs and nothing else. He's a legend who is unfortunately under the wrong hands.

 

[ninjahmos]

As much as I'd love to see Crash and Spyro get into Smash, I think I'd rather see Rayman get in first…but I'm not sure how likely he is compared to either of them.

Plus, Ubisoft is pretty much under a low profile these days, which doesn't help Rayman's chances.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think it'd be hilarious if this was Crash's appearance in smash

 

[HyperSomari64]

Takara x Konami with a roster made up of series like Castlevania, Metal Gear, Bomberman, Transformers and Beyblade.

Since Hudson Soft got absorbed by Konami, and TOMY merged with Takara; I'm not sure if a sequel will get the same "big three" gimmick.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

As much as I'd love to see Crash and Spyro get into Smash, I think I’d rather see Rayman get in first…but I'm not sure how likely he is compared to either of them.

I've never approached things in terms of who's more likely than who because ultimately, it's not a contest.

As an example, if they want Spyro in Smash, they won't go through the hurdle of getting Crash first because "it makes no sense to not bring Crash first", they would just ****ing gun for Spyro. End of story.

So any time I see people argue about things within a company, I chuckle because we just had two instances of Microsoft picking literally anything over their flagship Halo franchise which would have been the choice that "made sense" due to how big Halo is.

Nintendo and Sakurai can and will do whatever the **** they want here.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Rayman vs Crash is such a dumb debate cause the only similarity is that they're platformers who are both highly requested for smash (as much as some are reluctant to admit so for Rayman lol)

If one gets in it doesn't have any impact on the other's chances of getting especially when they're two completely different companies

 

[HyperSomari64]

Rayman vs Crash is such a dumb debate cause the only similarity is that they're platformers who are both highly requested for smash (as much as some are reluctant to admit so for Rayman lol)

If one gets in it doesn't have any impact on the other's chances of getting especially when they're two completely different companies

the only difference is the species

• Sonic The Hedgehog
• Crash The Bandicoot
• Banjo The Bear
• Bubsy Bobcat
• Conker Squirrel
• Ty The Tasmanian Tiger
• Rayman The.......

you get the idea

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

the only difference is the species

• Sonic The Hedgehog
• Crash The Bandicoot
• Banjo The Bear
• Bubsy Bobcat
• Conker Squirrel
• Ty The Tasmanian Tiger
• Rayman The.......

you get the idea

You know, you can just do a Gonzo the Great and call Rayman a “Whatever”.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't care all that much about Crash personally, so this is a completely neutral statement, but N Sane Trilogy put up pretty crazy numbers. 20 million is no small feat, and while Crash 4 didn't match those numbers it's reported it still clocked in around 5 million units sometime last year. The series is in a pretty difficult spot right now just by virtue of ownership getting shuffled around and all that, but this at least proves the audience still exists for the guy. Last I recall we were arguing about how big a deal sales are, so fine. Crash put up those numbers as well as anyone really.

To play devil's advocate, N-Sane Trilogy didn't do nearly as well in Japan. But I'm sure Crash's audience would go over just fine there in the same way Banjo's did, as a nostalgic reminder of a classic mascot character. Honestly like half the third parties in Smash are treated this way anyway. Crash is pretty easily on like, Mega Man or Simon's level of notoriety.

As for why he didn't make the cut for Ultimate, I don't think the time was right... or rather, the time was absolutely right for Crash to surge in popularity, given a successful series revival, but Smash was just getting started flirting with western guest characters and opting for the longtime fan favorite and biggest game in the world instead. With little community support prior to Ultimate, it's not as if someone like Crash was on the radar as a Ballot adjacent pick either. I feel like only post-Ultimate can Nintendo and Sakurai accurately assess Crash's popularity properly and make what they will of it. His ownership being shifted over to the one western studio with a presence on the roster is a happy coincidence.

As for Rayman, I'll just say that I think Ubisoft is one of the bigger no-brainer guest collaborations left and they've vocalized interest in Rayman in Smash quite often. I still think something like Assassin's Creed has a realizable shot but I'd sooner see it as a package deal like Capcom and Microsoft. Not cashing in my chips or anything but I wouldn't be surprised one way or the other with these two.

 

[Perkilator]

I think it'd be hilarious if this was Crash's appearance in smash

At the very least, it should be a Mii Costume.

 

[HyperSomari64]

You know, you can just do a Gonzo the Great and call Rayman a “Whatever”.

He's thingamajig, but I wanted to a joke about him as some sort of undescribable abstract being, like Pac-Man or Kirby.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

On the other side of that, it would be interesting to see if/how Ubisoft's current issues are affecting potential projects/elements like having Rayman in a Smash title. Given the talk of the company making significant changes (with even whispers about other companies potentially acquiring Ubisoft itself and/or preparation for some kind of bankruptcy proceedings) it does make one wonder how such tumultuous times affect the negotiations for all kinds of things.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Also with Crash in Ultimate, let's not forget that Microsoft didn't officially acquire Activision until October 2023. As it was, they would've had to make dealings with a separate company entirely via Activision-Blizzard and not just talking to Microsoft again.

Basically, depending on when the project plan for Smash happened (if it's the 2022 project or not), this is the first Smash game where Crash is actually owned by Microsoft.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Anyways, memes aside.
Who do you think are the most overlooked 3rd party newcomers?
I'd say Adol from Ys, Arthur from GnG and Zagreus from Hades are a bit overlooked.

Besides Adol any The legend of heroes character from the same company Nihon Falcom. Tho thankfully some discussions have happened here thanks to the Trails in the Sky’s remake.

Also anyone from a Gacha game. Gacha games have been pretty huge this days. I could totally see a Genshin Impact character or something from Fate Grand Order on the next smash game or something.

 

[Lionfranky]

Anyways, memes aside.
Who do you think are the most overlooked 3rd party newcomers?
I'd say Adol from Ys, Arthur from GnG and Zagreus from Hades are a bit overlooked.

As much as people are sick of hearing this... the answer is Lara Croft.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Well first of all, Nintendo picks everything. I'm sure the third-parties can make suggestions, and occasionally you do see like a spirit event that was clearly promotional, but it's almost always Nintendo/Sakurai choosing stuff.

Next, supplying games for the systems on the NSO and featuring a breadth of series from a third-party in Smash are pretty different things to run a parallel between. The Wii's VC had the Turbografx and the Neo Geo, it's not like Hudson or SNK showed up in Smash before Ultimate.

Also, most of the third-parties with characters only got costumes related to those characters. Square only got new FF and DQ costumes, Microsoft only got Minecraft costumes (considering the Bethesda content was likely all licensed before the buyout), SNK got three costumes from its fighters (which is sort of what Terry seemed to be representing as a whole), Namco didn't get any new costumes. I think Capcom and Konami only got two new costumes each, but Capcom didn't even get an original newcomer, and Konami had no costumes previously. Sega's treatment was pretty much on par.

There's a lot of stuff that we didn't get from a lot of the companies. Chrono, Nier, Space Invaders, Tomb Raider (which was SE at the time), Halo, anything else Rare, Dark Souls, Xenosaga, Soulcalibur, more Tales, Silent Hill, Contra, Ace Attorney, Darkstalkers. It's certainly not just Sega stuff.

You have a point with the costumes now that you mention it. I think the underlying theme is that Nintendo doesn't seem to want to go too deep with the companies already in Smash, which is something I'd like to see 6 rectify for the most part.
That being said, the comment about Hudson does remind me that I genuinely believe we would've had Bomberman in Brawl had the circumstances allowed for another guest character, considering how close Nintendo and Hudson were before the latter was absorbed into Konami.

The key difference is Mega Man and Banjo were, I believe, the second most requested third-party newcomers overall among their respective results. And that was after the first was already included (Sonic) or seemingly unsuccessfully attempted (Sora).

Arle is what? Maybe in top 30? She's not even the most requested Sega character. Fanbase demand is going to pick a more demanded character. Because picking Arle would be completely arbitrary, they'd be just as likely to pick any somewhat well-charting third-party character.

I did already say that I don't believe Arle to be on either of those two's level of demand, the point I was focusing on is that out of SEGA series not represented in Smash yet, Puyo is the one I have historically seen thrown around the most. Of course she's not going to outrank Sonic characters, no one from SEGA is going to outrank Shadow, Tails or Eggman, but the thing is, I consider the addition of a second Sonic character to be practically divorced from the idea of adding a new SEGA series. It's pretty much process of elimination from there; Bayonetta and Persona are already in, Like a Dragon didn't really see international takeoff until the last couple of years, and every other SEGA series hasn't been as active to justify a consistent push from fans. Primarily, I've been of the belief that they'll put in Shadow as an Echo or semi-clone in base, and then add a couple of new SEGA series during the DLC period.
Though I guess we could also eat crow and, again, see a repeat of Ultimate where Nintendo believed adding Ken was good enough from a Capcom standpoint and left things there. I'd be pretty disappointed if Nintendo does the same with SEGA and Shadow/Tails this time around.

I understand. It would be nice if Sega's crossover games actually tried to include all their noteworthy franchises.

I think the thing is that the Superstars/All-Stars games mostly focused on the franchises with stronger western popularity, which is why you didn't see Puyo Puyo, Phantasy Star, Sakura Wars, or, at the time, Yakuza.

And then with Project X Zone, it was largely the reverse. However, I believe they also had an edict of omitting the cartoony characters, which would entail Arle's usual depiction these days.

I'll let the Superstars/All-Stars games off the hook since as you said, those games were focused mainly on series with international presence. X Zone is quite a bit more frustrating since Puyo's cast has worked in more serious settings in the past--I'm aware that Madou Monogatari's rights are splintered in a troublesome fashion, but I don't think that would've stopped X Zone from using, say, the classic ARS trio in their Compile-era designs. Puyo Puyo 4's designs would've fit X Zone like a glove, in fact.
I'll admit, I did forget that Puyo was acknowledged to a decent amount for the SEGA60 campaign a while back. I think the main things that are irking me right now are the lack of any Puyo guests in Super Monkey Ball (when they'll collab with something SEGA doesn't even own like Monster Rancher) and the overall feeling of being uncomfortably sandwiched between Sonic and Like a Dragon promotions in spite of how much money the series brings as well.

I don't have the numbers, so this is just a guess, but might that be because the games don't sell particularly well in the west?

Also, it does sort of seem like par for the course with Sega where outside of RGG and Atlus, they don't seem to know how to handle their franchises very well.

But it also underscores why Yakuza seems likelier at this point than Puyo Puyo.

Considering the West actually has an active enough Puyo community that isn't just some small circle of diehard otakus now, I imagine the games have to have done at least well enough. But as you've just said, SEGA has been historically incompetent with series directions, it's the reason why it took nearly two decades for a Super Monkey Ball game to come out that people actually liked, and even then I imagine a lot of people still prefer 2 especially with how that game's been cracked wide open for ROM hacks. It's just that the incompetency stings even more here since this is a series that's big enough for missteps to really hurt, but not big enough that you'll have fans scream bloody murder at the company to fix things like how the case is for Sonic.
Though regardless, I'm not really sure one can say Like a Dragon is likelier when the ball is in Nintendo's court, unless negotiations for SEGA over Smash literally only happened as early as a few months ago.

Puyo Puyo gets into more crossovers than some of Sega more well known IPs like Phantasy Star, Love and Berry, Mushiking, etc believe it or not. PS is self explanatory with its popularity but Mushiking and Love and Berry nearly rivaled Virtua Fighter 2 in the arcades and made children come to the arcades again. Love and Berry in particular scared Toei at one point and permanently changed the way Toei marketed Precure.
View attachment 399204

Unironically Puyo Puyo is the only time Mushiking and Love and Berry made appearance in a crossover.

I am aware that Puyo Puyo Quest gets a mouthful of crossovers, but I was more talking about Puyo-related crossovers that aren't using Quest as a basis, like PxZ or the SEGA characters in Banana Mania and Banana Rumble as I mentioned above, or how Like a Dragon content is coming to both Fortnite and Dave the Diver. I really want Puyo Puyo to beat the "relies too much on a gacha game entry" allegations because I know the series is more than just Quest.

Dont even get started on those genesis/mega drive games like Vectorman, Streets of Rage, or Gunstar Heroes that westerners love. Project X Zone was the only time SoR ever made it into a crossover game lol.

Huh, I actually didn't really know that. The funny thing is, during Ultimate DLC, someone used to try and astroturf SoR on me when I brought up Puyo just because 4 was out and everyone liked it. And then absolutely nothing else is happening for that series until that new game they teased comes out...assuming it doesn't end up cancelled.
Goes to show that recency bias is one heck of a drug (I should know.)

 

[BrawlX10]

I honestly think Wario being unlockable is just a Sakurai-ism. (And by Sakurai-ism, I mean just because he felt like it. Don't think there was too deep of a reason.)

Complete conjecture on my part but I think Wario would've been unlockable back in Melee had he been included.

With a new series under his belt, Wario got to be a headliner in Brawl. Then going into Smash 4 Sakurai just wanted more unlockable characters and with Luigi being a starter for once Wario just happened to fill that spot? Idk, hard to say really.

Well now that unlockables have been brough up.


Asuming that Smash 6 has a similar number of unlocks as Brawl/Melee relatively to the Smash 6 base game roster of course. What characters do you think they could end up begin unlockable?


Those are theSmash 4 vets and Ult vets i could see as unlockable if they return base game.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

As much as people are sick of hearing this... the answer is Lara Croft.

One of the most iconic female video game protagonists alongside Chun-Li and Samus. I think I agree with this. Tomb Raider was very influencial when it came to the action-adventure genre so Lara Croft could join Smash.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

In music app news, tonight's update is the StreetPass Mii Plaza, including the music from Find Mii/StreetPass Quest and Find Mii 2/StreetPass Quest 2.

3DS is finally on the board, baby!

None of the paid games though (that I didn't know existed because I didn't buy DLC for the Mii Plaza lmao), like StreetPass Squad/Mii Force I think, StreetPass Garden/Flower Town, etc.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

With all the fairly recent new games and remakes that older and formerly semi-dormant IPs have been getting, I do think the next Smash game might be the next best chance for characters like Crash, Spyro and Rayman to potentially make the cut. Almost all of their franchises have gotten new life breathed into them as well a resurgence in popularity thanks to the new games and remakes in question. Even Rayman at least got a DLC appearance in Mario + Rabbids.

Other people have already said this recently, but I think now is probably Geno's best shot for similar reasons thanks to the recent release and success of the Super Mario RPG remake. It's almost certainly now or never for him, and while that's been said plenty of times before in both speculation of Smash 4 and Ultimate alike, the remake of his debut game (and only major appearance) didn't exist back then.

 

[Watuna4343]

I mean, first of all, it really doesn't have to be consistent with Brawl in order to be true for Smash 4, as the philosophy on unlockable characters has kind of shifted from game to game. In Smash 4 it is, at least to me, very clear when you look at the list that those characters were all pretty much low or lowish in priority. Note though that it's not so much that the characters were made unlockable, more that they were revealed for the game very late (perhaps even more correctly that they weren't revealed early, as early reveals couldn't possibly be low priority); but in Smash 4 at least, the notions simply end up coinciding for the most part.

Nevertheless, as is pointed out above, Marth/Ness being unlockable in Brawl could simply have to do with wanting to promote the newcomer choices in these rotating cast series. In any case, Marth/Ness (and you can throw in Luigi) are basically the earliest unlocks in Brawl, which would actually fit with them being just below the highest-priority characters, if we were to attempt to make the theory fit there (I mean Brawl's roster wasn't very big compared to 4's and over a third of it was unlockable). ROB has a big role in SSE, yes, though technically most of that role doesn't even necessitate playable ROB being a thing, and his reveal as the Ancient Minister is pretty late. If ROB was somehow not finished in time you could pretty easily edit things to make it fit with ROB not being playable, if we're being honest. That said, ROB was definitely planned from the start and there likely wasn't much doubt he'd make it for Brawl; however, I do think it makes sense that he'd be a lower priority newcomer than most of the others.

Keep in mind that even low priority characters are almost all planned from the start, they just, well, definitionally are not prioritized to be started and/or finished as highly, and may not be locked in for the roster completely until it can be determined with more absolute certainty that the devs will have enough time to finish them.

In the case of Wario, anyway, it's all pretty moot because he's not getting cut lol. All it means for him is he might not get started and finished alongside all the highest priority characters to ensure there's enough series diversity before getting around to him, but he'll be ranked high enough among those others to never really be in danger of the total chopping block.

I guess this mostly makes sense but if we are concentrating on Smash 4's priorities, my one objection is Toon Link being a starter character whereas other clones like Falco and Ganondorf are unlockable which by this logic, would imply that these 2 would be lower priority but Toon Link wouldn't which... yeah, I have a very hard time imagining Toon Link being higher priority than these 2 especially since he was such a last minute addition in Brawl. Like even the argument of ease of development couldn't sway me because Toon Link is a clone but... as I mentioned so is Ganondorf and so is Falco, so I still can't imagine how if in Smash 4, the unlockable characters were really low-priority a character like Toon Link would rank higher than the likes of freaking Ganondorf (and obviously Wario since we're at it). I mean. I can definitely agree on low priority/finished late in development being partially a factor for sure (after all the trio of Dark Pit/Lucina/Dr. Mario are unlockable and they did become separate fighters later on, while Bowser Jr. was confirmedly almost cut) but I do have a hard time seeing it apply in all of the unlockables (with Wario being here as well).

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You think this phrase gets posted ad nauseum you think he be a lock already with the Fighting Pass already but he wasn't. Almost as if that never mattered in terms of Crash's chances



More consideration from Nintendo than Crash has gotten. If Nintendo went out their away to publish Rayman's games, naturally they would view the series in high regard




Then stop bringing up with same line on Japanese support....What do you want me to do with this information?

My guy, you keep saying Rayman “having his foot in the door” helps him, despite having that foot in since Smash for Wii U, you think he be a lock already with the Fighting Pass already but he wasn't. Almost as if that never mattered in terms of Rayman’s chances.

We have never gotten any collaboration with Activision in Smash, since Smash DLC ended Crash was bought out and is now owned by a company that has collaborated with Smash multiple times, putting him in a better position than he was when they were deciding characters for the fighter pass, how strong a partnership with other companies and Nintendo is is a factor when adding 3rd party characters.

Do you hate Crash because you feel like he interferes with Rayman’s chances, or because you feel that Crash fans have dismissed and slighted you? If it makes you feel better I like Rayman, I think he has plenty of merits, and I hope he is playable someday.

 

[Ivander]

Also anyone from a Gacha game. Gacha games have been pretty huge this days. I could totally see a Genshin Impact character or something from Fate Grand Order on the next smash game or something.

It's their time.

Spoiler

No more money for Nintendo, for players now use the Reinhardt.

That meme aside, I still think Fire Emblem Heroes is very likely, especially as it is owned by Nintendo, is Nintendo's best selling Gacha and has content in the main games now. Veronica would very likely be the rep for Fire Emblem Heroes, and she has alot of what Fire Emblem fans would want from a new Fire Emblem character in Smash Bros, between being a mage with a bit of staff usage, being a non-Avatar main character and being a villain turned anti-hero turned hero(which can be represented by giving her both her Book 1 and Book 6 looks).
And then there's also the Breidablik which would be great for a Pokeball item, but for Fire Emblem characters and you can use that to put in representation for the classes, like Hector and Armoured Knights, Sigurd and Cavalry, Caeda and Pegasus Knights, Camilla and Wyvern Knights, etc, as well as side characters with very little chance of being a playable character in Smash. It can also summon Gods and Godlike beings like Grima and Fomortiis as well, so you can have some of them appear as like the Legendary Pokemon of the Breidablik.

 

[BrawlX10]

One of the most iconic female video game protagonists alongside Chun-Li and Samus. I think I agree with this. Tomb Raider was very influencial when it came to the action-adventure genre so Lara Croft could join Smash.

I think her not begin owned by SE anymore also removes any competition she could've had from SE as well.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think her not begin owned by SE anymore also removes any competition she could've had from SE as well.

That's true, but Tomb Raider as an IP is now owned by Embracer Group, which might not matter (especially after Nintendo bought Shiver Entertainment from them) but they're not exactly stellar lol

 

[HyperSomari64]

It's their time.

Spoiler

No more money for Nintendo, for players now use the Reinhardt.

That meme aside, I still think Fire Emblem Heroes is very likely, especially as it is owned by Nintendo, is Nintendo's best selling Gacha and has content in the main games now. Veronica would very likely be the rep for Fire Emblem Heroes, and she has alot of what Fire Emblem fans would want from a new Fire Emblem character in Smash Bros, between being a mage with a bit of staff usage, being a non-Avatar main character and being a villain turned anti-hero turned hero(which can be represented by giving her both her Book 1 and Book 6 looks).
And then there's also the Breidablik which would be great for a Pokeball item, but for Fire Emblem characters and you can use that to put in representation for the classes, like Hector and Armoured Knights, Sigurd and Cavalry, Caeda and Pegasus Knights, Camilla and Wyvern Knights, etc, as well as side characters with very little chance of being a playable character in Smash. It can also summon Gods and Godlike beings like Grima and Fomortiis as well, so you can have some of them appear as like the Legendary Pokemon of the Breidablik.

Brent b4 they were the King of Skill

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Ah yes, Lara Croft.

Like clockwork brought up in how she's not talked about, people agree, and then....not talked about.
Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I've never approached things in terms of who's more likely than who because ultimately, it's not a contest.

As an example, if they want Spyro in Smash, they won't go through the hurdle of getting Crash first because "it makes no sense to not bring Crash first", they would just ****ing gun for Spyro. End of story.

So any time I see people argue about things within a company, I chuckle because we just had two instances of Microsoft picking literally anything over their flagship Halo franchise which would have been the choice that "made sense" due to how big Halo is.

Nintendo and Sakurai can and will do whatever the **** they want here.

Hilariously, Crash vs. Spyro is one of the few instances where we know for sure who they'll pick first because Spyro has negative popularity in Japan.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Ah yes, Lara Croft.

Like clockwork brought up in how she's not talked about, people agree, and then....not talked about.
Wash, rinse, repeat.

I mean if she was still Square Enix I could at least be like "All right, we have Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest... Tomb Raider's pretty prolific, I could see their next character being either Tomb Raider or Nier because 2B is in everything."

But like... She's not anymore, so it comes down to talks with a completely different Western company that Nintendo doesn't have much to do with outside of like THQ Nordic I guess since they were in that third party developer thing?

Like she could happen for sure, but it'd take more effort than if she was just still with Square Enix, which obviously isn't a dealbreaker, but it makes it hard to judge if Nintendo would deem it worthwhile, I guess is my viewpoint?