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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SMAASH! Puppy

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Is Contra more popular than Cuphead?
Probably not.

Does Contra have more legacy than Cuphead?
Definitely.

Does it matter that Cuphead is an indie title?
Probably not.

Are they even directly competing for a roster slot?
Their appeal and reasons for addition are very different, so probably not.

Hotel?
Trivago.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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You know, this is the second time you came at me like this. I'm getting suspicious of you.

I don't go by something as old as 1996. It makes sense to that at this point. I go by something more recent.
Unfortunately, 1996 is the most recent thing we have for Contra's sales series-wide. Jesus, I wasn't even born... I feel young for once.

Unless you're willing to break into Konami headquarters and steal secret files concerning Contra sales, this is as good as you'll get.
 
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BrawlX10

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I personally really don't think it's Smash. Like i said before , 2021 seems just WAY too early for a cut-off.
Not having Noah or Mio playable would be very strange in my opinion, when their game is turning 3 years old in a few months, it's not really the same situation as ARMS or Xenoblade 2 were at in Ult, imo.

Sakurai also made the following tweet in Feb 2024:

The tweet translates to the following:
"Sora’s amiibo comes out today! Thank you to everyone who worked on it (this was an amazing accomplishment). The design was always perfect, and the details and the colors look exactly as intended. The pose and sculpting look good as well. Now that all of the fighters have an amiibo, my work on Super Smash Bros Ultimate is basically done. Thank you for everything." [Thanks, Siliconera!].
Imo this tweet makes me believe more what TheFirstPoppyBro TheFirstPoppyBro said about development it possibly starting in June 2024. I think this tweet also makes me think we're more likely to get a Smash 6 than a Ult Deluxe, altrough, you never know.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I think this tweet also makes me think we're more likely to get a Smash 6 than a Ult Deluxe, altrough, you never know.
The second we learned the Switch 2 had backwards compatibility is the second the vast majority of us dropped the idea of Ultimate Deluxe because it would be pointless. Most people who would want Ultimate on Switch 2 would already have Ultimate on Switch 2 by virtue of having the Switch 1 version.

And while it's possible Sakurai can sing a different tune nearly two decades later, it should be noted that he accepted to direct Brawl the second he learned Iwata's backup plan for a Smash Wii was to just port Melee. Assuming his opinion didn't change, Ultimate Deluxe was but a pipe dream from the start.
 

RileyXY1

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The second we learned the Switch 2 had backwards compatibility is the second the vast majority of us dropped the idea of Ultimate Deluxe because it would be pointless. Most people who would want Ultimate on Switch 2 would already have Ultimate on Switch 2 by virtue of having the Switch 1 version.

And while it's possible Sakurai can sing a different tune nearly two decades later, it should be noted that he accepted to direct Brawl the second he learned Iwata's backup plan for a Smash Wii was to just port Melee. Assuming his opinion didn't change, Ultimate Deluxe was but a pipe dream from the start.
Yep. The reasons why porting Wii U games to the Switch was a successful strategy were that the Wii U was a massive flop and the Switch wasn't backwards compatible with it. Neither of those will be the case for the Switch 2. There's also the issue of the massive licensing costs that would entail if Ultimate is ported.
 

BuckleyTim

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Sakurai's secret project not being smash makes a whole lot of sense when you realize that would make for the longest dev time in smash history, and that in actuality probably not actually bending over backwards to give us tons of content. It just is not congruent with the expectation that we're getting at most Smash 4 levels of switch2-fidelity content... And also incongruent with how likely it'd be that namco bandai of all companies would give a Mario Wonder or TOTK level dev cycle to one of their big money makers.
 

Oracle Link

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Magolor in my opinion is the most likely Kirby character if its about the modern games outside of Bandana Dee.

Bandana Dee is weird because he actually appeared in the original Kirby Super Star but he wasn't established as a distinct character until the remake on DS.
Yeah he is the most likely and not even cause of the mainline games!
Sure he has his own sidemode but if i had to guess Susie and taranza will get some too soon!
Its because he is seen in the most spinoffs, And IS generally an extremly popular character!

With his 3 MAinline Appearences and Tons Of Spinoff ones (Kirby clash 2 and 3, Kirby Fighters 2, The Kirby Collection and all the costumes) Hes Become A VERY Deserved character and tbh he should probably be in smash 6 together with 'BWD and the three already added ones!

Now Is the question The third character Galacta or Morpho! I mean galacta seems more popular yet hes dead (Sorta) and has a weapon that makes him too diffrent from metknight to be an echo (lance and shield) so i dunno!
 

BrawlX10

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The second we learned the Switch 2 had backwards compatibility is the second the vast majority of us dropped the idea of Ultimate Deluxe because it would be pointless. Most people who would want Ultimate on Switch 2 would already have Ultimate on Switch 2 by virtue of having the Switch 1 version.
They could justify a Ultimate Deluxe by just having all the DLC in the base game, also an extra one or two fighter passes to convince people to re-buy it.
Having 100 fighters would be a selling point for a lot of people.


And while it's possible Sakurai can sing a different tune nearly two decades later, it should be noted that he accepted to direct Brawl the second he learned Iwata's backup plan for a Smash Wii was to just port Melee. Assuming his opinion didn't change, Ultimate Deluxe was but a pipe dream from the start.
To be fair, i think Iwata's back up plan, with all respect for the man, was quite dumb. I hink porting Ultimate now is more justificable than porting Melee back in the day. Ultimate has a big roster and it's going to be harder to convince people to buy the game if they cut their favourites after getting "spoiled" with Ultimate.
It's not rocket sciencie if Sakurai decides to port Ultimate instead of making a new game, this time.

I do think we'll probably get a Smash 6, but i don't agree with the "Smash Ult Deluxe makes no sense" point.
 
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Noipoi

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I’m never one to say never, usually because I feel like as soon as I do the universe conspires to do exactly what I said wouldn’t happen, just to make me look stupid.

With that said, for as long as we’ve known the Switch 2 was backwards compatible I’ve doubted they’d go for Ultimate DX. It’s still a possibility, of course, just not the most likely one imo.
 

Swamp Sensei

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You know, this is the second time you came at me like this. I'm getting suspicious of you.

I don't go by something as old as 1996. It makes no sense to that at this point. I go by something more recent.
I was nothing but polite this time. I fully admit I was rude before, but I was not rude this time.

And the main problem is, we have no record of Contra's sales made after 1996. It's the only piece of evidence we have. We'd love more recent data.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I’m never one to say never, usually because I feel like as soon as I do the universe conspires to do exactly what I said wouldn’t happen, just to make me look stupid.

With that said, for as long as we’ve known the Switch 2 was backwards compatible I’ve doubted they’d go for Ultimate DX. It’s still a possibility, of course, just not the most likely one imo.
Well, I was agreeing with the second part but that first part makes me think we might both be wrong and it'll actually be Ultimate DX :4pacman:

/j
 
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Wonder Smash

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Yeah but the point is that there's no way all of these games combined gave Contra enough of a boost to outsell Cuphead when Komani rarely bothers to show sales for games that underperforms and lo and behold, most of these have no public sales data and the ones that do are pathetic.

Let's be generous and assume all of these combined added another million units sold because there are enough games here that it's possible to add that number even if all of them flopped. Cuphead still outsells the entire franchise.
That could be the case and I never claimed that other Contra games combined would outsell Cuphead but at the same time, it is unfair to say Cuphead is more popular than Contra will ever be based on old info, especially if we're talking 30 years ago.

I also wouldn't use the animated series to say that either when the game was basically screaming animated series anyway. I would, however, say it's more appealing due to its exposure. But adaptations of video game can happen any time. Look at how long it was before Castlevania got an animated series? Heck, the Minecraft movie is just now about come out.

Of course, I'm not downplaying Cuphead's popularity. I see why fans love it but people do exaggerate a game's sales a bit too often here when talking about a game's popularity.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I see why fans love it but people do exaggerate a game's sales a bit too often here when talking about a game's popularity.
Sales have a direct correlation to popularity, yes? It's not one to one, but more popular things sell better right?
 

Wonder Smash

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I was nothing but polite this time. I fully admit I was rude before, but I was not rude this time.

And the main problem is, we have no record of Contra's sales made after 1996. It's the only piece of evidence we have. We'd love more recent data.
I'm just saying, it looks strange. But I've been watching other people act strange on here too, so you're not the only one I'm paying attention to.

And yeah, I'd love for more recent data too, which is all I'm saying.

Sales have a direct correlation to popularity, yes? It's not one to one, but more popular things sell better right?
Not all the time. Some fans are usually split over which games are better, despite the difference in sales (Mario Kart and Sega All-Stars Racing). Then you also got some as far back as Pac-Man on Atari, which despite being one of the worst games of all time, was also one of the best selling games of all time.
 
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Dukefire

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I can say that Bandana dee has a chance to join smash bros. The only problem is that characters made before Sakurai allowed the Kirby series continue with HAL without him. Which only have Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede (also, voiced by him in Smash Bros), and Marx (Boss status with more scary features.:eek:)
Screenshot_20250224_102147_YouTube.jpg

Bandana Waddle Dee's moveset pool in official games was created without Sakurai (except his appearance in Megaton Punch mini game). So, him and other potential kirby characters may have a roadblock.
 
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Oracle Link

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I am still curious Is anyone against a Toon/ Toy Link Hybrid for the next game?
1740414335173.png
1740414375476.png

Like just have like Link (all adults), Zelda (all adults), demon king Ganondorf, OOT Sheik, Impa and maybe Midna and skullkid together with a duo
Of Toon Link (Default) and a sligthly bigger Limbed toy link as An Alt? Like that would be the best option for smol Link Rep Right? Heck throw in moves from both Incarnations (+ fire arrows from young link) for even more variation and bamm great character!
 

Dukefire

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I just found a video of a pretty polished Bandana Waddle Dee mod. I disagree fundamentally with making him a projectile zoner to the point where even his forward air is a projectile, but aside from that and his side special, I think it's pretty close to what we'll see officially.

I can see that he might better as an All-rounder character that calls for situations. Mostly focus on spear with parasol and beam ability to back up.
 

Garteam

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Sakurai's secret project not being smash makes a whole lot of sense when you realize that would make for the longest dev time in smash history, and that in actuality probably not actually bending over backwards to give us tons of content. It just is not congruent with the expectation that we're getting at most Smash 4 levels of switch2-fidelity content... And also incongruent with how likely it'd be that namco bandai of all companies would give a Mario Wonder or TOTK level dev cycle to one of their big money makers.
IMO, the extended dev time actually makes me lean more towards it being Smash. “Give things more time to cook” is a logical response to planning a new entry in a series that has historically struggled with getting all of the game’s planned content completed. It’s also in line with Furukawa’s “modern games take more time and resources, so don’t be stingy on development” philosophy.

3 years is also relatively standard for AAA development. If anything, it’s short compared to major, AAA releases, which now seem to take closer to 5 years of dev time. Elden Ring started development in 2017.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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They could justify a Ultimate Deluxe by just having all the DLC in the base game, also an extra one or two fighter passes to convince people to re-buy it.
Having 100 fighters would be a selling point for a lot of people.
At that point just do extra Fighter Passes for Ultimate and call it a day.

Why would anyone in their right mind buy the entire game a second time that they could already play on their system?

The only ones that would buy the "Deluxe" version you're proposing are those who never bought Ultimate to begin with.

 

Garteam

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Why would anyone in their right mind buy the entire game a second time that they could already play on their system?
Wait until you hear about GTA V and the Last of Us.

That being said, I think the ship for more Ultimate content sailed last year with Sakurai saying development is officially over.
 
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Dukefire

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At that point just do extra Fighter Passes for Ultimate and call it a day.

Why would anyone in their right mind buy the entire game a second time that they could already play on their system?

The only ones that would buy the "Deluxe" version you're proposing are those who never bought Ultimate to begin with.

This is like buying the same game twice despite minor additions.
Screenshot_20250219_085217_YouTube.jpg
 

BrawlX10

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IMO, the extended dev time actually makes me lean more towards it being Smash. “Give things more time to cook” is a logical response to planning a new entry in a series that has historically struggled with getting all of the game’s planned content completed. It’s also in line with Furukawa’s “modern games take more time and resources, so don’t be stingy on development” philosophy.

3 years is also relatively standard for AAA development. If anything, it’s short compared to major, AAA releases, which now seem to take closer to 5 years of dev time. Elden Ring started development in 2017.
Smash 4 took 2 years, though.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Wait until you hear about GTA V and the Last of Us.
In the case of GTA V, I will at least play Devil's Advocate for the FIRST re-release because the PS3/360 originals were struggling with some of the stuff they were adding by the time they stopped adding content to their Online modes and it was very apparent that the extra firepower of the PS4 and Xbox One were going to be necessary. There also wasn't any PC version before they dropped this next-gen re-release which is kinda crazy to think about but it's true.

Every re-release after that was basically pure greed though and I don't see Nintendo go down the same path.
 

ninjahmos

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I just found a video of a pretty polished Bandana Waddle Dee mod. I disagree fundamentally with making him a projectile zoner to the point where even his forward air is a projectile, but aside from that and his side special, I think it's pretty close to what we'll see officially.

It's a little bit janky but I can kinda see the vision.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Smash 4 took 2 years, though.
Garteam's point is that games have become more ambitious and resource-intensive as the years have gone by, which have led to longer dev times. So trying to use a 2014 game to try and shut down an argument about how games are made in the 2020s is basically completely ignoring what he said.

And not to be the ACKSUALLY guy but Smash 4 actually took over two and a half years (2 years and 7 months for 3DS and 2 extra months for Wii U) and despite being a game that made heavy reuse of Smash 4's assets to save on time, Ultimate's development was even longer at 2 years and 10 months.

If anything, using Smash's development times as examples only prove Garteam's point rather than counter it.
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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I don't deny that. Castlevania was people's main focus for a Konami rep, so it's no surprise Contra didn't get anything in Smash yet.

That depends on when they sold and why they sold so much. If Cuphead benefitted from the era it was made from, that it's not really anything to be all that impressed by.

It wasn't just the original trilogy that people played. There was also Hard Corps and there's plenty of people who also played the others, including Shattered Soldier. I see no reason to assume the those games did bad just because Konami didn't share numbers, as we've seen numbers for games like Castlevania Judgement (which was WAY worse). Though either way, assuming the numbers have been same since 1996 is just crazy.

Why are you worrying about me giving it credit? I'm just not exaggerating its popularity by using sales that we don't even know it currently has.

Yeah, it's a game that's got the recognition it deserved and it's a big hit but the time when it came out is worth bringing up if it played a part in its success. Like you said earlier, you say a single game selling more than a series with over a dozen games is a lot more impressive than a series with over a dozen games selling more than a single game. But timing plays a part too.

Well, you keep saying Cuphead is more popular but you know you can't base this on sales.



There's no way it stayed at 4 million copies way back in 1996.
Beyond the Castlvania and Metal Gear content we got content from Bomberman, Goemon and Power Pros, and nothing from Contra.

This argument about when the game released affecting its popularity is so strange. I could talk about how Contra was heavily inspired by popular action movies that released in the mid to late 80s, and that people who were recent fans of those films gravitated towards Contra, thus Contra benefited from the cultural zeitgeist of the era to be successful. Regardless, unless fraud is involved I don’t think how a game saw its success really matters, but even if this kind of thing did matter can you even calculate how big the rising interest of indie games in 2017 was, and how much it affected Cuphead’s sales? This claim your making seems so baseless.

So I’m exaggerating Cuphead’s popularity, because the exact current sales numbers are unknown, but you are not exaggerating Contra’s popularity, despite the exact current sales numbers being unknown, is that what’s going on here? It would be nice for you to acknowledge that Cuphead was successful due to it’s own merits is all.

Obviously people played the Contra games after the trilogy, I’m not trying to argue these games sold 0 copies, but it’s pretty obvious the later games were not as successful, we know for a fact that most of these games were not as well received critically at the very least, and are far less talked about. I don’t think the sales numbers stayed the same, it just seems like a safe bet to assume the current sales numbers are not that significantly higher.

If you want to dismiss the examples of how popular Cuphead is, I’d like to hear how you determine what’s popular.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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God, I hope not…

Nintendo may make some questionable business choices, but some of them are tame compared to other AAA companies' decisions.

cough EA cough
The closest they've gotten to it was the New Play Control! games on the Wii and even then, you can make the argument that implementing the motion controls validated their existence alongside the GameCube originals that were also compatible with the Wii.

The Switch 2 doesn't seem to have anything substantial enough to justify something similar for Switch 1 ports. Sure, there's mouse controls but very few games would benefit from having that and the few that do, such as Mario Maker, might as well just get new games given they got proper sequels on Switch rather than Wii U ports.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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The Switch 2 doesn't seem to have anything substantial enough to justify something similar for Switch 1 ports. Sure, there's mouse controls but very few games would benefit from having that and the few that do, such as Mario Maker, might as well just get new games given they got proper sequels on Switch rather than Wii U ports.
Just you wait. I'mma be the best keyboard and mouse Smash Ultimate Deluxe player the world has ever seen!
 

Dukefire

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The closest they've gotten to it was the New Play Control! games on the Wii and even then, you can make the argument that implementing the motion controls validated their existence alongside the GameCube originals that were also compatible with the Wii.

The Switch 2 doesn't seem to have anything substantial enough to justify something similar for Switch 1 ports. Sure, there's mouse controls but very few games would benefit from having that and the few that do, such as Mario Maker, might as well just get new games given they got proper sequels on Switch rather than Wii U ports.
I think the potential mouse controls could turn Switch 2 into a mini computer. Give Metroid for one more freedom and possibly allow a certain games to return evolved. Like this one:
 

DarthEnderX

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Mementos changed slightly to add the extra Phantom thief members is the only one coming to mind.
KoF Arena NEEDS CotW Mai!

The second we learned the Switch 2 had backwards compatibility is the second the vast majority of us dropped the idea of Ultimate Deluxe because it would be pointless.
1740417646775.png

And while it's possible Sakurai can sing a different tune nearly two decades later, it should be noted that he accepted to direct Brawl the second he learned Iwata's backup plan for a Smash Wii was to just port Melee. Assuming his opinion didn't change, Ultimate Deluxe was but a pipe dream from the start.
To be fair, Sakurai didn't used to believe in things like DLC either. Things change.

There's also the issue of the massive licensing costs that would entail if Ultimate is ported.
Smash 6 is going to have just as many licensing cost.

I am still curious Is anyone against a Toon/ Toy Link Hybrid for the next game?
I'm fine with it. I certainly don't want Toy Link as a separate character, or to lose Toon Link.

At that point just do extra Fighter Passes for Ultimate and call it a day.


This is like buying the same game twice despite minor additions.
A thing I've been doing since the days of Street Fighter 2.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Then I will gladly be evil :4pacman:

To be fair, Sakurai didn't used to believe in things like DLC either. Things change.
And sometimes they don't.

We know he was still salty about the Brawl cutscenes getting leaked as of early 2022 thanks to his YouTube videos. That is 16 years of salt.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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I do wish they'd make a version of Ultimate that has the DLC already installed on cartridge.

They could get cute with it and call it "Super Smash Bros Ultimate: Special" and in japan "Super Smash Bros Special: Ultimate"
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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A thing I've been doing since the days of Street Fighter 2.
And wouldn't you know it, fighting game devs have been doing it less and less recently because they realized making people pay for the same game multiple times when patches exists ****ing sucks.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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I am still curious Is anyone against a Toon/ Toy Link Hybrid for the next game?
View attachment 399450View attachment 399451
Like just have like Link (all adults), Zelda (all adults), demon king Ganondorf, OOT Sheik, Impa and maybe Midna and skullkid together with a duo
Of Toon Link (Default) and a sligthly bigger Limbed toy link as An Alt? Like that would be the best option for smol Link Rep Right? Heck throw in moves from both Incarnations (+ fire arrows from young link) for even more variation and bamm great character!
I would at least like to see toy Link as an alt if nothing else. Though considering the proportions of the two he's gonna look a little weird no matter what.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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The fact that most of Sony’s new games are given an absurdly large budget, and their way of making up the money spent is to make remasters of PS4 games instead of just making more smaller budget titles still frustrates me so much.
I am still curious Is anyone against a Toon/ Toy Link Hybrid for the next game?
View attachment 399450View attachment 399451
Like just have like Link (all adults), Zelda (all adults), demon king Ganondorf, OOT Sheik, Impa and maybe Midna and skullkid together with a duo
Of Toon Link (Default) and a sligthly bigger Limbed toy link as An Alt? Like that would be the best option for smol Link Rep Right? Heck throw in moves from both Incarnations (+ fire arrows from young link) for even more variation and bamm great character!
They should make Toy Link and echo fighter of Toon Link, Classic Link and echo fighter of Young Link, and pre BotW adult Link and echo fighter of Link. Give us 6 different Links this time, I’m sure it would go down well with the fans.
 
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