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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

BrawlX10

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Would you guys say there's a cut-off point for stages like there's for characters? We got Wolly World in Smash 4 after all.
Like would it be too latee for a M&L: Brothership stage for example?

If Hero gets redesigned like how RNG works then they will probably have to change his other stuff.

An example is how his aerials aren’t remarkable compared to most sword characters for balancing reasons.
I think he could have rotating fixed sets. Like first set is ALWAYS Sizz, Snooze, Pysche Up, Aceleratle....etc. I think crits chance needs to waaay be higher.
 

DarthEnderX

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Hero was one of my MW characters. But I never play him because I despise the way he plays.

Navigating menus in a RT match is infuriating.
Randomised spells are asinine.
Having fundamental mechanics like basic recovery moves tied to a mana pool is bull****.

None of the other JRPG protags have to deal with any of that ****.
 

Dukefire

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Hero was the true reason I got into Dragon Quest series. Sure the RNG and MP mechanics are something. I got around it and even embraced it.

I'm not the best Hero:ulthero2: player, but using the resources make it tactical like the home series. Plus, RNG isn't new as other characters like :ultgnw: Judge attack (9s), and :ultluigi: misfire are a gamble.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Would you guys say there's a cut-off point for stages like there's for characters? We got Wolly World in Smash 4 after all.
Like would it be too latee for a M&L: Brothership stage for example?
It wouldn't be too late for a Brothership stage but what do you even do for Brothership?

What makes the most sense is Shipshape Island but it's far from the first stage where you fight on a boat so it wouldn't really be unique.

But ultimately, we know for a fact that the cutoff point for stages seems to be much later than the project plan, given that have multiple examples of it. You mentioned Wooly World but Ultimate has two of them as well; New Donk City Hall and Great Plateau Tower. And that's not mentioning the two Gen 7 stages we got in Smash 4.
 
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Oracle Link

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So Many People hate on new pork city!
1740500252572.png

And to a certain degree i get that not only is it suffering from Brawl Dullnes it also has a really weird layout (MINUS the gimmicks they are cool)
But lets be honest new pork city is obne of the best areas in nintendo history its so Friggin COOL!

I honestly think this stage should get a sequel/ reeimagining where some of its issues are fixed!
(Also tazmilly as a second mother 3 stage!)
 

duchess-olive

Smash Cadet
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So Many People hate on new pork city!
View attachment 399501
And to a certain degree i get that not only is it suffering from Brawl Dullnes it also has a really weird layout (MINUS the gimmicks they are cool)
But lets be honest new pork city is obne of the best areas in nintendo history its so Friggin COOL!

I honestly think this stage should get a sequel/ reeimagining where some of its issues are fixed!
(Also tazmilly as a second mother 3 stage!)
It's a huge stage, I can't blame them for hating it. That's why I have it removed from my "random stage selection" option, along with Palutena's Temple and Great Cave Offensive.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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And to a certain degree i get that not only is it suffering from Brawl Dullnes it also has a really weird layout (MINUS the gimmicks they are cool)
But lets be honest new pork city is obne of the best areas in nintendo history its so Friggin COOL!
I'm sorry but that's a horrendous take. If the layout was a bit less insufferable, then maybe it could've been good but unfortunately, moving around the stage is a ****ing mess even if you have good mobility if not downright impossible if you're someone like Doc or Little Mac.

When it comes to big stages, they really peaked on their first attempt (Hyrule Temple) and then just went downhill from there. The only contender for a good giant stage is Palutena's Temple and that is entirely due to the Guidances and nothing else because that stage is ass to fight on.

I do agree the Ultimate Chimera is funny though. The background is also really cool and it's refreshing to see something that isn't "first area" in the stage roster. But again, it's not fun to fight on so...
 
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Dukefire

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So Many People hate on new pork city!
View attachment 399501
And to a certain degree i get that not only is it suffering from Brawl Dullnes it also has a really weird layout (MINUS the gimmicks they are cool)
But lets be honest new pork city is obne of the best areas in nintendo history its so Friggin COOL!

I honestly think this stage should get a sequel/ reeimagining where some of its issues are fixed!
(Also tazmilly as a second mother 3 stage!)
The Ultimate Chimera is a GOOD reason why people may not want gimmicks. This one in brawl instant 100% and Ultimate outright kills you. Fitting since in Mother 3, the Pig soldiers warns you to avoid it and just touching it like an encounter instantly wipes out the party. No matter how strong you are.
Ultimate_Chimera_SSBU.png

Seriously, Nintendo always have a way to create nightmare fuel whenever possible.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Does Hero really play that badly? I think I mostly played them for their Classic Mode and Spirits, so I'm not sure.
It entirely depends on your thoughts about RNG since Hero lives and dies by it.

If you hate RNG, he embodies everything you don't like about it.

If you don't mind RNG, he's very funny.
 

Thegameandwatch

Smash Journeyman
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So Many People hate on new pork city!
View attachment 399501
And to a certain degree i get that not only is it suffering from Brawl Dullnes it also has a really weird layout (MINUS the gimmicks they are cool)
But lets be honest new pork city is obne of the best areas in nintendo history its so Friggin COOL!

I honestly think this stage should get a sequel/ reeimagining where some of its issues are fixed!
(Also tazmilly as a second mother 3 stage!)
Although I find it weird that the developers picked this stage specifically in Brawl because its a late game stage from a game that didn't release worldwide.
 

Oracle Link

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It's a huge stage, I can't blame them for hating it. That's why I have it removed from my "random stage selection" option, along with Palutena's Temple and Great Cave Offensive.
I'm sorry but that's a horrendous take. If the layout was a bit less insufferable, then maybe it could've been good but unfortunately, moving around the stage is a ****ing mess even if you have good mobility if not downright impossible if you're someone like Doc or Little Mac.

When it comes to big stages, they really peaked on their first attempt (Hyrule Temple) and then just went downhill from there. The only contender for a good giant stage is Palutena's Temple and that is entirely due to the Guidances and nothing else because that stage is ass to fight on.

I do agree the Ultimate Chimera is funny though. The background is also really cool and it's refreshing to see something that isn't "first area" in the stage roster. But again, it's not fun to fight on so...
The Ultimate Chimera is a GOOD reason why people may not want gimmicks. This one in brawl instant 100% and Ultimate outright kills you. Fitting since in Mother 3, the Pig soldiers warns you to avoid it and just touching it like an encounter instantly wipes out the party. No matter how strong you are.
View attachment 399502
Seriously, Nintendo always have a way to create nightmare fuel whenever possible.
Ill answer once okay i really dont have enough mental strength for more Yelling and shouting okay GOOD!
When i said coolest place i specifically meant the version of that area from mother 3!
As i said already The Layout is bad!
I do like the gimmicks specifically The Ship, the breakable plattform and the Floating taxi! I also like the chimera is it fair NOOO
But it is fun and in ultimate you can turn all of them of anyways!

For those disliking the chimera there is a thing i really love to do i go to the chimera and jump away last second thats so fun to do!

But yeah general layout wise i prefer simple (and smaller) stages a lot of the Time! But sometimes a huge stage with stupid stuff happening is very fun!

Funnily enough i do think Onett and fourside have really awkward Layouts too! Although Onett is very Pretty!

Although I find it weird that the developers picked this stage specifically in Brawl because its a late game stage from a game that didn't release worldwide.
I 100% Agree same with The Statue and porky himself its really sad that most of the finale is spoiled in smash!

Atleast the tower is kept as a very fun suprise!
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Also I want Octoling as a playable character, even if it has to be a palette swap of Inkling.
I would say Octoling is probably the safest bet with how much of a success Splatoon has become.

Like, it went from a game that did very well by Wii U standards to now being a consistent high-seller for Nintendo, with 2 and 3 both scoring over ten million units sold each. There is no world where Nintendo doesn't capitalize on that success.

It would also mirror how people spent 3 years begging for playable Octolings in Splatoon proper before the Octo Expansion :4pacman:
 

duchess-olive

Smash Cadet
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They are probably one of the more likely characters but it's unknown how they be implemented. Either a semi-clone like Isabelle, an echo fighter or simply an alternate costume.
I'll take either one. I just like Octoling way more since that was the species I picked at the start when I got "Splatoon 3", which happened to be my first game in the series.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I could really see Pauline getting in first over every remaining Mario character solely based on her recent rise in popularity since her return. Getting reeeaallll :rosalina: vibes from her.

Which sucks, but only for me, I guess. :drshrug:
Then I guess I'm you as well because as much as I like Pauline... she definitely feels like one of those additions that would be forced in because popularity and nothing else.

I wouldn't get upset if she's added but Mario has so much potential that giving the roster slot to the popular lady of the moment would feel like so many people got robbed.

Rosalina gets a pass for me though because she was picked back when all she had to her name was Galaxy 1, Galaxy 2 (barely) and two Mario Karts so it does feel like Sakurai saw genuine potential rather than her being picked because she's everywhere.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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They are probably one of the more likely characters but it's unknown how they be implemented. Either a semi-clone like Isabelle, an echo fighter or simply an alternate costume.
There are so many weapon types that even a fully unique fighter is in the cards.

Octoling is truly a wild card because while we agree they're a no-brainer, they're also the kind of character where any option feels true to the source material and we just can't seem to ever agree on what they'll be which at least makes things more interesting than they were for Inkling where everything was obvious.
 

Will

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Who said anything about spinoffs?
1740503259223.png



Then I guess I'm you as well because as much as I like Pauline... she definitely feels like one of those additions that would be forced in because popularity and nothing else.

I wouldn't get upset if she's added but Mario has so much potential that giving the roster slot to the popular lady of the moment would feel like so many people got robbed.

Rosalina gets a pass for me though because she was picked back when all she had to her name was Galaxy 1, Galaxy 2 (barely) and two Mario Karts so it does feel like Sakurai saw genuine potential rather than her being picked because she's everywhere.
I was fine with Rosalina, and Rosalina supporters were honestly super chill. I just feel that same sense of popularity and allure from a development standpoint. It’s not like Pauline would be a boring fighter. It would be pretty cool if we got the Mario minis involved with her, since she’s also half damsel-in-distress for puzzle games.

But man… I want to fight as so many other characters instead.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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No one but I got a feeling that's the main reason behind the Pauline support.
It legit is.

Literally any time she shows up it's immediately followed with how "she's a lock for Smash" using Rosalina as a comparison point when the two are barely comparable in their situations.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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It legit is.

Literally any time she shows up it's immediately followed with how "she's a lock for Smash" using Rosalina as a comparison point when the two are barely comparable in their situations.
I recall her getting some support back in 2018 due to her rising popularity thanks to Odyssey but it truly feels like it exponentially grows with every spin-off series she shows up in as if THAT was the deciding factor despite a living example of the contrary with Waluigi.
 
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Will

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No one but I got a feeling that's the main reason behind the Pauline support.
Well, let’s backtrack to my first post about it talking about my personal opinion. :iwatadirect:

When I say Rosalina vibes, I’m talking a strong supporting character that grew heavily on most audiences. It grew so much, yeah, she’s locked in for these spinoff titles. To me, they’re in the same boat. Rosalina was a new creation, sure, and Pauline was a fresh take on her previous modern redesign into something that gave her both a vivid personality and, I don’t really know how else to word this, raw aura. And the players, who may or may not also be developers, love them both.

If anything, imo, her new appearances in spinoffs only boost the massive popularity she already had. If she gets in, I definitely ain’t saying it’s the spinoffs fault lol
 
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Kirbeh

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Mildly warm take time. (?)

I think Hero is poorly designed on the whole. I appreciate the goofy fun factor of stuff like top deck but that doesn't make the design good. Being unique doesn't automatically mean it's good design either.

Granted, this is coming from the fighting game side of the brain, not the party side. We know Sakurai balances around FFAs/casual play first and foremost.

Personally, I do actually really like playing as Hero, especially dittos. It's fun. It's goofy RNG shenanigans and it never fails to make me giggle every time something stupid happens.

However, I disagree with the notion that volatile designs like Hero aren't to be touched just for being "unique."

I'm all in favor of retaining Hero's RNG traits but I do think they need to be toned down a tad. Others have already said it but lowering the rate at which crits appear and making Whack/Thwack function like the other "100% = death" threshold attacks are a good start.

In addition to that, I think it'd be for the best to just adjust these things across the board for 1v1s. We get a lot of odd little half-measure bones thrown our way when it comes to competitive play. The gesture is appreciated but it almost always fails to actually address anything.

1v1s in Ult. have the damage adjustment along with a few character-specific things like the FG characters always facing their opponent. I'd like for 1v1 balancing to be a toggle in the options much like stage hazards, FS meter, etc.

When enabled it applies balance adjustments more suited to competitive play. Casual players lose nothing, competitive players get to finally do away with the more egregious RNG offenders.

So, when enabled you get stuff like:

:ulthero3:
  • Critical Hits are disabled but his normals and Smash attacks all receive slight damage buffs
  • Whack, Thwack, Metal Slash, Kaclang, Kamikaze, Magic Burst and Hocus Pocus will not appear when using Command Selection
  • The effects of Oomph, Psyche Up and Acceleratle are slightly nerfed. (Either this or they'd be prevented from stacking, so using one would override another if already in effect.)

:ultgnw:
  • Judge retains its 9 different possibilities, but some of their effects have been changed.
  • 1 receives a damage buff, now dealing 5%. It will now deal hit stun to opponents and no longer deal recoil damage to G&W. It remains the weakest version of Judge but is no longer completely useless.
  • 2 also receives a slight damage buff, now dealing 8%. It no longer has a chance of tripping (RNG within your RNG is a bit much imo) but will instead pop opponents upward.
  • 9 receives a slight nerf to damage (from 38% down to 30%) and knockback and is not affected by rage. (Personally, I'd get rid of rage as a mechanic altogether but that's a different conversation.)
Those are just two examples, but you get the idea. The move sets are preserved but they receive adjustments that make them more palatable for comp.
 
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Ivander

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Rosalina gets a pass for me though because she was picked back when all she had to her name was Galaxy 1, Galaxy 2 (barely) and two Mario Karts so it does feel like Sakurai saw genuine potential rather than her being picked because she's everywhere.
Super Mario 3D World? Mario Party Island Tour? And she was also planned for Mario Golf World Tour, which would come out a few months before Smash Bros 4?

Like sure, she was picked during a time when she didn't have a whole lot at the time, but she was most likely planned to appear in those 3 even before Sakurai picked her.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Super Mario 3D World? Mario Party Island Tour? And she was also planned for Mario Golf World Tour, which would come out a few months before Smash Bros 4?

Like sure, she was picked during a time when she didn't have a whole lot at the time, but she was most likely planned to appear in those 3 even before Sakurai picked her.
The bolded is where the argument ends.

None of what you listed were at all relevant to the decision when the roster was being drafted.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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The bolded is where the argument ends.

None of what you listed were at all relevant to the decision when the roster was being drafted.
Yeah, the idea that she was picked due to being planned to be a prolific character in spin-offs over the simple reality of "she represents the then-recent duology of 3D Mario games" is a bit silly when you think about it out loud like I did 2 minutes ago.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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If Pauline were to join the battle as a newcomer, then I think aside from having the Minis and the original DK arcade game as options, I can see Sakurai taking inspiration from Rise's moveset in Persona 4 Arena Ultimax.
THE RHYTHM GAME FINAL SMASH

That would make people SEETHE so that means I'm a fan of the idea. :p

Still doesn't change my thoughts on Pauline though.
 
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