Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

You can’t deny there’s was a certain amount of irony in the whole typhlosion thing considering the Pokémon fandom’s attitude towards gardevoir

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm pretty sure it was scrapped yeah, I don't think we found out about it until the Teraleak happened.

And yeah it really doesn't surprise me that Pokemon Company would scrap that lmao

I don't think it was scrapped so much as it was a writing exercise never intended for actual use or to be seen by anyone outside the dev team in the first place.

Mimicking real world mythology and then scaling back to something more appropriate for Pokemon is how it came off to me.

 

[SPEN18]

Who is the most likely from that series since it’s not as discussed compared to Splatoon?

Tom Nook is the obvious choice. From my view Tom Nook and AC in general get brought up quite a bit in discussion, though if it's true that it's not mentioned as much as Splatoon, it's probably in part because of Nook being such a clear frontrunner in the face of Splatoon simply having much more variance in who people think will be next.

Besides Tom Nook, I think KK Slider with a music-based kit would be the next most popular and likely option. Personally I love the idea of Resetti as an AC fighter who would probably strike a much different tone than any other (and who is also one of the most widely recognized), but the way the character has gone recently it sadly doesn't look likely to happen. Some other ideas would be like Kapp'n perhaps with some kind of vehicle-based moveset, Timmy/Tommy as some type of duo fighter, or Blathers the museum curator.

 

[BrawlX10]

I do also wonder about the chances of a idol duo getting in Smash with Octoling.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I do also wonder about the chances of a idol duo getting in Smash with Octoling.

Already shutting down Deep Cut before we even get to bring them up, eh?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I do also wonder about the chances of a idol duo getting in Smash with Octoling.

I feel like Off the Hook has a decent shot because Pearl and Marina are really popular, use weapon types introduced in 2, and have character differences physically and personality wise that really lend themselves well to a swapping moveset, alongside Marina being an Octoling so she lends to that aspect as well, especially if Octoling ends up as like an Echo or a set of alts.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Who is the most likely from that series since it’s not as discussed compared to Splatoon?

I always thought Mr. Resetti was a possible character with that aggressive personality and pickaxe he got. lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I always thought Mr. Resetti was a possible character with that aggressive personality and hammer he got. lol

First off, it's a pickaxe.

Second, Nintendo has been phasing him out of existence, being part of an optional project in New Leaf that only shows up after your first reset and being completely unseen outside of amiibo in New Horizons due to auto-saving making his role pointless (he does act as a way to un-softlock yourself if you're stuck but it's through a phone call so yeah, never seen), all because he was scaring players...

Yeah, I don't even except Resetti to return as an Assist, let alone a playable role.

 

[Will]

First off, it's a pickaxe.

Second, Nintendo has been phasing him out of existence, being part of an optional project in New Leaf that only shows up after your first reset and being completely unseen outside of amiibo in New Horizons due to auto-saving making his role pointless (he does act as a way to un-softlock yourself if you're stuck but it's through a phone call so yeah, never seen), all because he was scaring the children...

Yeah, I don't even except Resetti to return as an Assist, let alone a playable role.

I miss Resetti AT. It was funny watching him basically rant as a boomer

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I do also wonder about the chances of a idol duo getting in Smash with Octoling.

Probably Off the Hook but not sure if the developers will make a two characters at once screen mechanic outside of the Ice Climbers who have much simpler designs.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Wasn't there still a pregnancy involved?

I honestly forgot if that part was still accurate to the script or not, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I think the script and idea were scrapped regardless. I'm just glad they did decide to drop the idea because even if it's supposed to be based on some tales in from real life ancient Mythologies, it's still extremely gross lmao.

A little scared to ask, but uhhh, context? Very confused about the seeming illusions to typhlosian pregnancy and how it ties into world mythologies.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Already shutting down Deep Cut before we even get to bring them up, eh?

I'm not super in tune with Splatoon fans, but Deep Cut seems to be the least popular idol group thus far.

Which is a shame because Big Man is best boi.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A little scared to ask, but uhhh, context?

The less you know, the better.

All I'll say is that stuff from Game Freak leaked and... yeah...

 

[Idon]

I miss Resetti AT. It was funny watching him basically rant as a boomer

"Old mole yells at Cloud Strife"

 

[Perkilator]

Probably Off the Hook but not sure if the developers will make a two characters at once screen mechanic outside of the Ice Climbers who have much simpler designs.

They can probably use the Pearl Drone as part of Marina’s moveset to get around the issue. It would probably have to mean that Marina would be DLC, since Side Order came out way after this project plan, but so be it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm not super in tune with Splatoon fans, but Deep Cut seems to be the least popular idol group thus far.

Which is a shame because Big Man is best boi.

I mean, they were the latest one and never really got to have their personalities shine outside of the one interview in a digital magazine that not everyone will actively look for. They at least got cool boss fights though, especially Big Man.

Compare that to Squid Sisters who have been around since the start, acted as mission control for all three base game campaigns and 2's story even had a subplot of you needing to save one of them.

Or Off the Hook who started in an extremely rough spot due to Pearl being a rich ***** and Marina being Marie 2.0 in North America (to the point where I'd argue they were the least popular idol group in Splatoon history during that time) but skyrocketed with Octo Expansion delving into their dynamic and bond while also making Pearl a much nicer person, some patches that toned down Marina's sass to make her more like her original Japanese script and even a second DLC campaign with Side Order, making them the most fleshed out idol group by a ****ing mile. They get bonus points on top of all that since Nintendo's playing the game of making them as lesbian as possible without actually saying they're lesbians.

It's honestly a miracle Off the Hook is as popular as they are now because I remember when people ****ing hated them.

 

[Guynamednelson]

A little scared to ask, but uhhh, context? Very confused about the seeming illusions to typhlosian pregnancy and how it ties into world mythologies.

Over 1 terabyte of data from Game Freak's offices was leaked in October 2024. We got our first unintended looks at a bunch of scrapped Pokemon, early concepts for Pokemon that did make it, scrapped Pokemon game concepts, some stuff for upcoming games, and several officially-written stories about people and Pokemon doing...things together.

The most infamous one involves Typhlosion.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

First off, it's a pickaxe.

Second, Nintendo has been phasing him out of existence, being part of an optional project in New Leaf that only shows up after your first reset and being completely unseen outside of amiibo in New Horizons due to auto-saving making his role pointless (he does act as a way to un-softlock yourself if you're stuck but it's through a phone call so yeah, never seen), all because he was scaring players...

Yeah, I don't even except Resetti to return as an Assist, let alone a playable role.

A real shame, but at least he's at least allowed to be in his angry expression in Smash through Trophies and Spirits which even his amiibo couldn't.

Though I'd imagine the main reason he didn't return was because the 3DS as well as his role being too intrusive and distracting from the fight to have any motivation bringing him back for Ultimate.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I miss Resetti AT. It was funny watching him basically rant as a boomer

THIS!

Bring Mr. Resetti and his glorious rants back damn it lmao.

 

[Will]

THIS!

Bring Mr. Resetti and his glorious rants back damn it lmao.

The Ganondorf next to me while I’m distracted because I want to read what Resetti has to say:

 

[BrawlX10]

Probably Off the Hook but not sure if the developers will make a two characters at once screen mechanic outside of the Ice Climbers who have much simpler designs.

I've seen some concepts of Marina & Pearl Drone floating around, but tbh, i don't think they'll do that as Pearl fans most likely won't like that and it honestly wouldn't make much sense either, tbh.

I feel like Off the Hook has a decent shot because Pearl and Marina are really popular, use weapon types introduced in 2, and have character differences physically and personality wise that really lend themselves well to a swapping moveset, alongside Marina being an Octoling so she lends to that aspect as well, especially if Octoling ends up as like an Echo or a set of alts.

Yeah, now that you say it, yeah. Marina and Pearl would be a cool way to use weapons intruduced in Splat 2. I though of Callie and Marie because they're the OG idol, but if Off the Hook are more popular than them, then i'll guess they could get over the OGs.

 

[Wonder Smash]

First off, it's a pickaxe.

Second, Nintendo has been phasing him out of existence, being part of an optional project in New Leaf that only shows up after your first reset and being completely unseen outside of amiibo in New Horizons due to auto-saving making his role pointless (he does act as a way to un-softlock yourself if you're stuck but it's through a phone call so yeah, never seen), all because he was scaring players...

Yeah, I don't even except Resetti to return as an Assist, let alone a playable role.

Yeah, I meant pickaxe.

I'm just pointing out how out of all the Animal Crossing characters, he's always seemed more likely to fight. He just seems more confrontational and a pickaxe is useful in a fight. Though, I think it's worth pointing out that he does show up in Mario Kart 8 and as a costume in Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, so it does seem like Nintendo is still trying to do something with the character.

Also, I think you meant expect Resetti to return as an Assist.

 

[Watuna4343]

I do think Waluigi is very likely, but I'm just gonna let you know people have been saying the bit I bolded since I started speculation I'm pretty sure, so be careful with those locks lol

Waluigi fans circa 2013 and also circa 2018

While I think it’s likely for him to be added, there is still the possibility of him still being an Assist Trophy.

Here's the thing, I once again acknowledge that such absolutism is frowned upon but speaking objectively, I will absolutely be shocked if after all this outcry, all of the fan demand and after such an explosion in popularity he misses out yet again. I mean, the precedent with Ridley and King K. Rool is there, where immense fan support alone was enough - I'd argue that again, Waluigi's support is even bigger as it 'leaked' outside of the bubble (despite how divisive he is in the bubble because of some toxic fans back in the day, with some folks still holding a grudge against said fans like... to this day), I've seen many far more casual players who don't know a whole lot about Smash and certainly not speculation and the likes and who still know of his absence in Smash and how notorious it is, I don't remember a character being so mentioned as an absence before, since for example that demographic above, the far more casual players, were certainly not as noted with King K. Rool and Ridley's absences - and these 2 were some massive fan favourites already. Like, that's what does it for me, Waluigi walking into Smash 6 as probably one of the characters with the biggest outcries I've seen in a game (again, even with some who loathe him and even if it took years like 2013 and earlier as mentioned) - if that's not enough to put a character in, then I'll start having more reservations for characters as I genuinely don't know what else it would take.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean, the precedent with Ridley and King K. Rool is there, where immense fan support alone was enough - I'd argue that again, Waluigi's support is even bigger as it 'leaked' outside of the bubble (despite how divisive he is in the bubble because of some toxic fans back in the day, with some folks still holding a grudge against said fans like... to this day)

Two had an official poll for people to make their voices heard in a constructive manner which directly lead to inclusion.

The other has a number of people screeching like banshees online and spamming memes in hopes Nintendo-Senpai notices them and gives them what they want.


It is NOT the same.

That isn't to say the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases aren't guilty of obnoxious behavior in the past, but said behavior is all Nintendo would see for Waluigi.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Here's the thing, I once again acknowledge that such absolutism is frowned upon but speaking objectively, I will absolutely be shocked if after all this outcry, all of the fan demand and after such an explosion in popularity he misses out yet again. I mean, the precedent with Ridley and King K. Rool is there, where immense fan support alone was enough - I'd argue that again, Waluigi's support is even bigger as it 'leaked' outside of the bubble (despite how divisive he is in the bubble because of some toxic fans back in the day, with some folks still holding a grudge against said fans like... to this day), I've seen many far more casual players who don't know a whole lot about Smash and certainly not speculation and the likes and who still know of his absence in Smash and how notorious it is, I don't remember a character being so mentioned as an absence before, since for example that demographic above, the far more casual players, were certainly not as noted with King K. Rool and Ridley's absences - and these 2 were some massive fan favourites already. Like, that's what does it for me, Waluigi walking into Smash 6 as probably one of the characters with the biggest outcries I've seen in a game (again, even with some who loathe him and even if it took years like 2013 and earlier as mentioned) - if that's not enough to put a character in, then I'll start having more reservations for characters as I genuinely don't know what else it would take.

I think even after all this outcry, it can still be difficult to figure something out for Waluigi.

He doesn't have any mainline stuff to latch onto as an anchor meaning all he has is spin-offs so what to use and what not to use? How does one take all of this spin-off content and try to make something cohesive out of it?

Sure, fans have made movesets before but that is not an indication that Sakurai can figure something out. He and the fans are different people with different mindsets and visions. A good example of this is how Mega Man in Smash Flash 2 basically had a Monado-like wheel that would change one of his specials before they watered down his kit to be more like Smash 4's (but with a handful of unique moves like Noise Crash for down air).

Basically, what I'm saying is if Waluigi doesn't make it in at this point, the only thing holding him back is Sakurai struggling to think of something that feels right for Waluigi. No inherent hatred like what people assume he has towards the purple plumper, just a creative roadblock.

 

[Schnee117]

Though, I think it's worth pointing out that he does show up in Mario Kart 8 and as a costume in Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, so it does seem like Nintendo is still trying to do something with the character.

Being a reskinned hazard on a track in a decade old game and a costume in another decade old game that's had several sequels since is not a sign of still trying to do something with the character.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Being a reskinned hazard on a track in a decade old game and a costume in another decade old game that's had several sequels since is not a sign of still trying to do something with the character.

I'm not talking to you!

I'm talking to the master here!
(Sorry, I couldn't help it).

But seriously, seeing how these being outside of his own series would be the exact opposite of phasing him from existence, yeah, it certainly is a sign that they're still trying to doing something with the character. Why even bother having him featured like this if they don't want anything to do with him anymore? I also don't know why you're bringing up how Mario Kart 8 is a decade old game when it's been updated with a Deluxe version on the current console since then and people still play it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, they were the latest one and never really got to have their personalities shine outside of the one interview in a digital magazine that not everyone will actively look for. They at least got cool boss fights though, especially Big Man.

Compare that to Squid Sisters who have been around since the start, acted as mission control for all three base game campaigns and 2's story even had a subplot of you needing to save one of them.

Or Off the Hook who started in an extremely rough spot due to Pearl being a rich ***** and Marina being Marie 2.0 in North America (to the point where I'd argue they were the least popular idol group in Splatoon history during that time) but skyrocketed with Octo Expansion delving into their dynamic and bond while also making Pearl a much nicer person, some patches that toned down Marina's sass to make her more like her original Japanese script and even a second DLC campaign with Side Order, making them the most fleshed out idol group by a ****ing mile. They get bonus points on top of all that since Nintendo's playing the game of making them as lesbian as possible without actually saying they're lesbians.

It's honestly a miracle Off the Hook is as popular as they are now because I remember when people ****ing hated them.

So basically, I'm right, but it's not a fair contest, and they could become more popular later.

But that last part comes with the caveat of them not being the idol group anymore, and having to fight for screentime with the new idol group, the Squid Sisters (who the next game will be focusing on), and Off the Hook, so like with the Off the Hook, it's an uphill battle.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

The Ganondorf next to me while I’m distracted because I want to read what Resetti has to say:

The doriyah is worth more Mr. Resetti lines.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So basically, I'm right, but it's not a fair contest, and they could become more popular later.

But that last part comes with the caveat of them not being the idol group anymore, and having to fight for screentime with the new idol group, the Squid Sisters (who the next game will be focusing on), and Off the Hook, so like with the Off the Hook, it's an uphill battle.

We don't know for a fact if the Squid Sisters will be the focus of Splatoon 4.

All we know is that their team won the Grand Fest. For all we know, it could be about the Great Turf War which happened decades before they were born.

"Past" is a very abstract concept here.

 

[Watuna4343]

Two had an official poll for people to make their voices heard in a constructive manner which directly lead to inclusion.

The other has a number of people screeching like banshees online and spamming memes in hopes Nintendo-Senpai notices them and gives them what they want.


It is NOT the same.

That isn't to say the Ridley and K. Rool fanbases aren't guilty of obnoxious behavior in the past, but said behavior is all Nintendo would see for Waluigi.

Eh, not sure if the outcry happening online makes it less of an outcry (outside of the few toxic fans which are obviously not the kind I'm talking about here) when Nintendo has noted it even.

 

[BrawlX10]

He and the fans are different people with different mindsets and visions

I think this needs to be highlighted more.

 

[Watuna4343]

I think even after all this outcry, it can still be difficult to figure something out for Waluigi.

He doesn't have any mainline stuff to latch onto as an anchor meaning all he has is spin-offs so what to use and what not to use? How does one take all of this spin-off content and try to make something cohesive out of it?

Sure, fans have made movesets before but that is not an indication that Sakurai can figure something out. He and the fans are different people with different mindsets and visions. A good example of this is how Mega Man in Smash Flash 2 basically had a Monado-like wheel that would change one of his specials before they watered down his kit to be more like Smash 4's (but with a handful of unique moves like Noise Crash for down air).

Basically, what I'm saying is if Waluigi doesn't make it in at this point, the only thing holding him back is Sakurai struggling to think of something that feels right for Waluigi. No inherent hatred like what people assume he has towards the purple plumper, just a creative roadblock.

Oh, don't get me wrong. There's absolutely no hatred by Sakurai, Waluigi is a fictional character after all, and what he killed his mother or something to have a vendetta against him lol (he was an assist Trophy all the way from Brawl after all so that makes any speculated 'hatred' even more ridiculous). What was holding Waluigi back is imo the same thing that was holding Toad back and that was that they didn't have unique moveset potential and weren't (at the time at least) popular so there was no reason to consider them. But imo, I have to parrot what I've seen others say but... if ROB can have a moveset made out of him without even being a video game character, if Captain Falcon, Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt etc. can all have movesets made of them which are practically Smash originals, I really don't see how that's a problem for Waluigi.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He and the fans are different people with different mindsets and visions.

I think this needs to be highlighted more.

Wait...You guys aren't a part of the Sakurai hivemind?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wait...You guys aren't a part of the Sakurai hivemind?

Unfortunately not.

I'm not cracked enough at King of Fighters to qualify

 

[Will]

Unfortunately not.

I'm not cracked enough at King of Fighters to qualify

You have to do the Toby Fox route and beat Sakurai in a game of Smash to unlock the hivemind. If you perform a JV3 on him you get the true ending where you get a free Mii costume of whoever you want.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think it's worth noting that while Sakurai is a creative mastermind, he does have limitations. Said limitations have even impeded or stopped him from adding Excitebiker, PAC-Man, Villager, Miis, Ridley, Chrom, Heihachi, and probably many more. Just because there is a direction for a character to take, doesn't mean Sakurai will find it, at least right off, and I don't think we even need to discuss how often we write off characters for this reason only for them to show up in the next game.

Now, arguing that he will or won't find inspiration on any given character is also really silly. A better question to ask is if they're popular enough for him to give them more thought, and in Waluigi's, case, the answer is probably "yes".

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I think even after all this outcry, it can still be difficult to figure something out for Waluigi.

He doesn't have any mainline stuff to latch onto as an anchor meaning all he has is spin-offs so what to use and what not to use? How does one take all of this spin-off content and try to make something cohesive out of it?

Sure, fans have made movesets before but that is not an indication that Sakurai can figure something out. He and the fans are different people with different mindsets and visions. A good example of this is how Mega Man in Smash Flash 2 basically had a Monado-like wheel that would change one of his specials before they watered down his kit to be more like Smash 4's (but with a handful of unique moves like Noise Crash for down air).

Basically, what I'm saying is if Waluigi doesn't make it in at this point, the only thing holding him back is Sakurai struggling to think of something that feels right for Waluigi. No inherent hatred like what people assume he has towards the purple plumper, just a creative roadblock.

I see where you're coming from. The sports games tend to give the characters unique moves (a lot of Waluigi's involve thorny vines for some reason), but they wouldn't be able to be as flashy if Waluigi used them in Smash. And there's things like the Vacuum Orb or a Piranha Plant, which Waluigi used specifically in Mario Party games. But it would be hard to combine all these things into a moveset that feels right and has an actual playstyle.

 

[dream1ng]

I do also wonder about the chances of a idol duo getting in Smash with Octoling.

I still think Sakurai is going to pull a Sakurai move and add someone other than Octoling should Splatoon get an original newcomer. Because it's not that Splatoon doesn't have other notable characters, it's just Octoling lends itself to being a character more easily, so it's understandably who people land on.

But I just think Octoling is so derivative of Inkling, if they were to be added, it'd be as a clone/semi-clone, with Sakurai getting more creative for an original character. And, to clarify, no, I'm not saying Octoling is incapable of an original moveset, I just don't think we'd get one from the character.

 

[Louie G.]

Basically, what I'm saying is if Waluigi doesn't make it in at this point, the only thing holding him back is Sakurai struggling to think of something that feels right for Waluigi. No inherent hatred like what people assume he has towards the purple plumper, just a creative roadblock.

Majorly agree with this, as I would any other character, because Sakurai’s metric for creating a fun moveset is not the same as ours. People can come up with ideas all they like but Sakurai is a different person and might not see those ideas as compelling in a vacuum.

That said, if Sakurai is interested in or is asked to address the demand for Waluigi then I don’t think he will struggle all that much. I’ve said in the past that Waluigi has a strong sense of character, and I see this informing his moveset more than his multitude of spinoff appearances. Utilizing his lanky structure, underhanded cheating tactics and capacity for schemes to spectacularly blow up in his face feel more tuned to what Waluigi can uniquely do, which is something Sakurai has stressed as an important factor for inclusion. I don’t think swinging a tennis racket is particularly that unique hook he’s looking for though.

To allude to Ridley who was mentioned before, in a different context… Ridley’s moveset actually doesn’t draw all that much from the games. It’s more focused on creating a character true to Ridley’s essence (a relentless killing machine) and branching off his most prominent design traits (he doesn’t really use his wings like that in Metroid). I would also argue that Waluigi’s famous green foil is made distinct through how his own awkward personality contrasts from that of his brother, and informs how he performs those same actions. So when all else fails in creating a fun moveset out of canonical material, Sakurai isn’t above simply constructing what works best for the character as an individual.

Footnote as well, Waluigi can’t be compared directly to Ridley and K. Rool’s ballot results but Sakurai is not naive to all fan demand divorced from this. Ridley had visible enough support to be acknowledged in two separate interviews before the Ballot even happened. And to be honest with you, certain old school Ridley fans were not all that better behaved than the worst of the Waluigi fans. Seriously go back to that old Smash 4 support thread if you want a few good laughs.