Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hypercat-Z]

This is a very running thought but... What if Nintendo and other companies will use the next Smash game to resume very old IPs people nowdays might have never heard of?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Speaking of Shantae, how likely do you think her inclusion is? She was noted to be a popular request alongside Dante, Lloyd and Dragonborn.

She might have more of a chance than most indie characters due to having a long-running series, but she'd be outprioritized by several non-indie third-parties.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Has anybody seen Sakurai’s latest interview?
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...ould-avoid-trying-to-appeal-to-western-tastes

Reminds me of the "Japanese hamburger" statement a week or so back.

 

[fogbadge]

This is a very running thought but... What if Nintendo and other companies will use the next Smash game to resume very old IPs people nowdays might have never heard of?

I'll ask the Ice Climbers

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'll ask the Ice Climbers

Being fair, Ice Climbers were never meant to be revived when added in Melee.

Pit is a straighter example of Hyper's question, even if reviving Kid Icarus wasn't the original intent (IIRC, Uprising started off as a Star Fox game)

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It strikes me as odd when people pair Shantae alongside like... Undertale and Cuphead in terms of chances, which are just, like, clearly much more prolific games/characters. Shantae is a fanbase darling but very far from the front in terms of overall prominence.

And I know somebody will raise the Banjo over Master Chief argument, but... I mean it's Shantae, not Banjo. Lost in that comparison is the scale of even the smaller Microsoft option versus the scale of the smaller option when it comes to these indies.

I mean Shantae was pretty lucky to get as much content as she did in Ultimate. Frankly the best thing that ever happened to her chances was Shovel Knight getting AT'd, because he was the more requested character beforehand. Hence the AT.

It's because she has more potential for a fun moveset.

 

[Will]

I honestly don't get that "literally who" mindset, discovering new characters, stages, items, franchises and etc that you don't know about is fun and part of what makes big crossovers fun, imo. Like i didn't know 90% of the cast of Project x Zone 1 back in 2013 and i still had a lot of fun with the game disovering all of that.

I agree. It doesn’t stop the salty, obnoxious people posting that question online though.

Sometimes, hoes just mad.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Sometimes, hoes just mad.

Why did that become a Meme? I know it started when Hero was announced but what was the origin?

 

[Gengar84]

I agree. It doesn’t stop the salty, obnoxious people posting that question online though.

Sometimes, hoes just mad.

Same here. Part of the fun is discovering new franchises you might not have been familiar with previously through Smash. I became a Fire Emblem fan thanks to Smash. I had no idea who Marth or Roy was previously. There hasn’t been a character in Smash since Lucas that I was completely unfamiliar with so it would be cool to see more.

 

[Will]

Why did that become a Meme? I know it started when Hero was announced but what was the origin?

It’s a song. I do not remember who made it.

Hero was leaked six months before their reveal when people discovered a “brave” character file. A lot of people guessed it correctly, but a lot of other people were hoping for something different. Most hoes were honestly just disappointed, but that vocal minority going “literally who”? Yeah, those hoes were very mad… until the Banjo reveal about an hour after Hero’s, but the meme was already out before then IIRC.

 

[Gengar84]

It’s a song. I do not remember who made it.

Hero was leaked six months before their reveal when people discovered a “brave” character file. A lot of people guessed it correctly, but a lot of other people were hoping for something different. Most hoes were honestly just disappointed, but that vocal minority going “literally who”? Yeah, those hoes were very mad… until the Banjo reveal about an hour after Hero’s, but the meme was already out before then IIRC.

Dragon Quest is pretty huge. I wouldn’t have imagined it would have been the type of series to get that reaction, especially after VIII and XI. I get being disappointed if you don’t care for Dragon Quest but the “literally who?” thing is a strange reaction. It’s a dumb reaction to anything but statements like that just show the person’s ignorance more than anything else.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It strikes me as odd when people pair Shantae alongside like... Undertale and Cuphead in terms of chances, which are just, like, clearly much more prolific games/characters.

Are they? Cuphead has one game. Undertale is, like, 1 and a half.

Shantae is a long running, well established game franchise with 6 games going back over 20 years.

She might have more of a chance than most indie characters due to having a long-running series, but she'd be outprioritized by several non-indie third-parties.

She has more of a chance than most indie characters because she's not an indie character.

This is a very running thought but... What if Nintendo and other companies will use the next Smash game to resume very old IPs people nowdays might have never heard of?

I almost feel like it's the opposite. With games like Ghosts N' Goblins Resurrection, Contra: Operation Galuga or Ninja Gaiden: Ragebound, it almost seems like other companies are reviving very old IPs in an attempt to get them into Smash.

 

[Will]

Dragon Quest is pretty huge. I wouldn’t have imagined it would have been the type of series to get that reaction, especially after VIII and XI. I get being disappointed if you don’t care for Dragon Quest but the “literally who?” thing is a strange reaction. It’s a dumb reaction to anything but statements like that just show the person’s ignorance more than anything else.

It’s just ignorance and petty name calling, like any other chronically online reaction to JRPG characters getting in Smash unless they were created by Tetsuya Nomura

 

[Gengar84]

I almost feel like it's the opposite. With games like Ghosts N' Goblins Resurrection, Contra: Operation Galuga or Ninja Gaiden: Ragebound, it almost seems like other companies are reviving very old IPs in an attempt to get them into Smash.

That would be awesome but I’m wondering if you might be slightly overvaluing Smash’s influence a bit. Sure, Smash is huge and most companies would love to see their characters join but I don’t know if they’d go as far as reviving a dormant series just for that purpose.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

So I remember around 2020 there was a leak that the Smash team was in talks with Nihon Falcom to get one of their characters in Smash, I don't remember the specifics but I recall a lot of people were very confident this was factual info. We were well in to Fighter Pass 2 at the time so obviously they weren't trying to get a character in FP2, They would have been getting legal stuff done for something in the future.
If this actually happened, That makes it seem like Falcom will have representation in the next Smash game.
Like, A series like YS fits pretty well with a lot of the third party series that get into Smash, Long running series from a Japanese developer.

 

[Perkilator]

So I remember around 2020 there was a leak that the Smash team was in talks with Nihon Falcom to get one of their characters in Smash, I don't remember the specifics but I recall a lot of people were very confident this was factual info. We were well in to Fighter Pass 2 at the time so obviously they weren't trying to get a character in FP2, They would have been getting legal stuff done for something in the future.
If this actually happened, That makes it seem like Falcom will have representation in the next Smash game.
Like, A series like YS fits pretty well with a lot of the third party series that get into Smash, Long running series from a Japanese developer.

Estelle Bright from Trails in the Sky has always been my Nihon Falcom pick for Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

Estelle Bright from Trails in the Sky has always been my Nihon Falcom pick for Smash.

I’m looking forward to trying out the Trails in the Sky remake. I’m not overly familiar with Estelle yet but she seems pretty cool from what little I’ve seen. I played the demo of Trails through Daybreak and I liked the main protagonist from that game (Van Arkride). Adol Christian from Ys seems like he could be fun too.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Are they? Cuphead has one game. Undertale is, like, 1 and a half.

Shantae is a long running, well established game franchise with 6 games going back over 20 years.

Yeah but even with only 1 game both Cuphead and Undertale sold more than Shantae with 6 games (Shantae franchise had sold 3 million games by 2020, while Cuphead has 6 million and Undertale is more than 5 million according to numbers I could found).

Also Cuphead has a show which was pretty big, and Undertale probably has arguably one of the biggest cult following a indie game ever had aside from Minecraft and Five nights I guess.

 

[NotGenerico]

Regarding Falcom, I have to mention that Rean Schwarzer is a pick I could see happening over Estelle or Adol. He's still the most popular Trails protagonist in Japan, had 4 games focusing on him as a protagonist (5 if you count Reverie) and Falcom made a big deal of him returning in Kai. He's also got the most obvious Final Smash I have seen in a while with Valimar, lol.

 

[Oracle Link]

I mean Ganondorf was far and away the big pick in the Smash 2 poll for Zelda, certainly, but Ganondorf also ended up as one of the clone characters, so he was likely added later on like the other clone characters. Meanwhile, Zelda, Sheik, and Child Link all received the same vote count, all ended up in the game off the heels of Ocarina, and Sheik gave Zelda an easily unique angle to take with a new Smash character, since they were the first transformation character, so with the same number of votes and Ganondorf seemingly being sidelined to later make Falcondorf, I think it makes perfect sense for the period in time Melee was developed, since Ocarina would've only been like 2 years old.

Also Ganondorf as a transformation character in normal gameplay would be kinda weird and likely hard to implement imo, like Ganon's final form in OoT is at least twice Link's size, probably more, so that'd look real weird if it was like normal playable character size I think.

I mean any ganondorf is fine really (maybe other than wind waker!? But theres only one type of ganon that people clamour for:

And that is pig ganon who is twice as big as link sometimes! Specifically a small sprite link so yeah size wise ganon is fine! But yeah that means if nintendo doesnt want 3d ganondorf turning into 2d ganon that might make a transformation impossible/redudant

If you ask me i think (canon left by the wayside)
Totk Ganondorf with some cross ganon moves, a demonking alt and a original ganon design based on pig ganon for the final smash would be my favourite!

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It strikes me as odd when people pair Shantae alongside like... Undertale and Cuphead in terms of chances, which are just, like, clearly much more prolific games/characters. Shantae is a fanbase darling but very far from the front in terms of overall prominence.

And I know somebody will raise the Banjo over Master Chief argument, but... I mean it's Shantae, not Banjo. Lost in that comparison is the scale of even the smaller Microsoft option versus the scale of the smaller option when it comes to these indies.

I mean Shantae was pretty lucky to get as much content as she did in Ultimate. Frankly the best thing that ever happened to her chances was Shovel Knight getting AT'd, because he was the more requested character beforehand. Hence the AT.

Shantae is an example of right place, right time with the time in which she was demanded matching up with the Smash Ballot, not in small part due to the developers themselves feeding the bandwagon. Nowadays, her games have fallen off and bigger indies have entered the scene much more organically than her

 

[Dukefire]

It strikes me as odd when people pair Shantae alongside like... Undertale and Cuphead in terms of chances, which are just, like, clearly much more prolific games/characters. Shantae is a fanbase darling but very far from the front in terms of overall prominence.

And I know somebody will raise the Banjo over Master Chief argument, but... I mean it's Shantae, not Banjo. Lost in that comparison is the scale of even the smaller Microsoft option versus the scale of the smaller option when it comes to these indies.

I mean Shantae was pretty lucky to get as much content as she did in Ultimate. Frankly the best thing that ever happened to her chances was Shovel Knight getting AT'd, because he was the more requested character beforehand. Hence the AT.

The thing is that Shantae has been sticking around longer than usual indie characters that come and go. Sure, she isn't that impactful like Undertale via Sans, Hollow Knight, Hades, Shovel Knight, and Cave Story to name some. She could've disappeared into obscurity if Pirate's Curse didn't save the series years ago.

 

[BrawlX10]

If we got a Blizzard rep, which one do you think it's more likely: Diablo, Starcraft, World of Warcraft or Overwatch?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

If we got a Blizzard rep, which one do you think it's more likely: Diablo, Starcraft, World of Warcraft or Overwatch?

Having no sort of expertise in the subject, I'd say between Diablo and Overwatch.

 

[Ivander]

If we got a Blizzard rep, which one do you think it's more likely: Diablo, Starcraft, World of Warcraft or Overwatch?

Personally want a Starcraft character, but most likely it would be Warcraft, especially due to World of Warcraft's influence and popularity throughout the years.

 

[Gengar84]

If we got a Blizzard rep, which one do you think it's more likely: Diablo, Starcraft, World of Warcraft or Overwatch?

I’m leaning towards Overwatch but that’s my least wanted of all of them. WarCraft is the biggest but it’s the only Blizzard IP with zero Nintendo presence. Not sure how much that hurts. StarCraft at least had a game on N64 and both Diablo and Overwatch are on Switch. My most wanted Blizzard characters are Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft) and Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft).

 

[cashregister9]

If we got a Blizzard rep, which one do you think it's more likely: Diablo, Starcraft, World of Warcraft or Overwatch?

StarCraft is still very popular (Especially overseas) and absolutely has the legacy and content for appearing in something like Smash. But it has not had new content in a while.

Diablo is always getting new things and the whole series is pretty much available on every modern console meaning it is very accessible. It has a bit of a shallower reach than the other series because of its difficulty and theming. But like it's not that big of a problem in the grand scheme of things.

Warcraft was a cultural phenomenon not really duplicated until like, Fortnite. Everyone knows World Of Warcraft, my parents and grandparents know WoW. I've studied the effects of World Of Warcraft in school. World Of Warcraft is one of the most important games ever IMO and it created the modern MMO. I could see Warcraft getting representation in Smash on its impact and legacy alone. Not even getting into the plethora of iconic and popular characters that would be very unique for smash. That was also like 15 years ago, and FFXIV has taken the MMO crown and WoW isn't as accessible as the others due to it being an MMO with a subscription. And the other Warcraft games have the StarCraft problem, But like wow is still popular and the expansions are still good.

Overwatch is like the perfect mix of the other 3, popular, impactful, still relevant, and has an iconic roster. Yeah it's not as popular as it was, but like, it is still really damn popular. The Internet has overblown how much it has fallen off.

Now the biggest hurdle is that Blizzard was run by the scum of the earth not too long ago.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Overwatch is like the perfect mix of the other 3, popular, impactful, still relevant, and has an iconic roster. Yeah it's not as popular as it was, but like, it is still really damn popular. The Internet has overblown how much it has fallen off.

From what I've heard, it wasn't "end of life" dying, but it was dying. However, the recent update has done a ton to revitalize the game, so it's actually in a pretty decent standing now.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Warcraft was a cultural phenomenon not really duplicated until like, Fortnite.

I think you could make the argument Warcraft's cultural phenomenon status was duplicated when Minecraft existed.

 

[Gengar84]

StarCraft is still very popular (Especially overseas) and absolutely has the legacy and content for appearing in something like Smash. But it has not had new content in a while.

Diablo is always getting new things and the whole series is pretty much available on every modern console meaning it is very accessible. It has a bit of a shallower reach than the other series because of its difficulty and theming. But like it's not that big of a problem in the grand scheme of things.

Warcraft was a cultural phenomenon not really duplicated until like, Fortnite. Everyone knows World Of Warcraft, my parents and grandparents know WoW. I've studied the effects of World Of Warcraft in school. World Of Warcraft is one of the most important games ever IMO and it created the modern MMO. I could see Warcraft getting representation in Smash on its impact and legacy alone. Not even getting into the plethora of iconic and popular characters that would be very unique for smash. That was also like 15 years ago, and FFXIV has taken the MMO crown and WoW isn't as accessible as the others due to it being an MMO with a subscription. And the other Warcraft games have the StarCraft problem, But like wow is still popular and the expansions are still good.

Overwatch is like the perfect mix of the other 3, popular, impactful, still relevant, and has an iconic roster. Yeah it's not as popular as it was, but like, it is still really damn popular. The Internet has overblown how much it has fallen off.

Now the biggest hurdle is that Blizzard was run by the scum of the earth not too long ago.

Yeah, I’m really hoping they addressed that under their new ownership. I love their characters and worlds but it was hard to support them knowing everything that went on over there.

As far as WarCraft goes, I think Hearthstone is still running and that’s more accessible than World of WarCraft since there’s no subscription fee. If you don’t like competing online, it still has really fun single player content like Dungeon Run where you don’t have to spend a penny on cards. WarCraft was also the only Blizzard IP to get a movie so there’s that. It’s only problem is the lack of Nintendo presence but I feel like its overall legacy and impact might be enough despite that.

 

[Lionfranky]

StarCraft is still very popular (Especially overseas) and absolutely has the legacy and content for appearing in something like Smash. But it has not had new content in a while.

Diablo is always getting new things and the whole series is pretty much available on every modern console meaning it is very accessible. It has a bit of a shallower reach than the other series because of its difficulty and theming. But like it's not that big of a problem in the grand scheme of things.

Warcraft was a cultural phenomenon not really duplicated until like, Fortnite. Everyone knows World Of Warcraft, my parents and grandparents know WoW. I've studied the effects of World Of Warcraft in school. World Of Warcraft is one of the most important games ever IMO and it created the modern MMO. I could see Warcraft getting representation in Smash on its impact and legacy alone. Not even getting into the plethora of iconic and popular characters that would be very unique for smash. That was also like 15 years ago, and FFXIV has taken the MMO crown and WoW isn't as accessible as the others due to it being an MMO with a subscription. And the other Warcraft games have the StarCraft problem, But like wow is still popular and the expansions are still good.

Overwatch is like the perfect mix of the other 3, popular, impactful, still relevant, and has an iconic roster. Yeah it's not as popular as it was, but like, it is still really damn popular. The Internet has overblown how much it has fallen off.

Now the biggest hurdle is that Blizzard was run by the scum of the earth not too long ago.

What I find interesting in this discussion is lack of Japan discussion. From what I've gathered, Overwatch seems to have advantage when it comes to Japan factor among Blizzard properties. Warcraft is following behind with Hearthstone because I've seen Japanese streamers playing Hearthstone. I know this is personal, biased, anecdotal experience, but not too far behind from reality....

But I still stand firm on my stance that Japanese factor is overblown.

 

[cashregister9]

From what I've heard, it wasn't "end of life" dying, but it was dying. However, the recent update has done a ton to revitalize the game, so it's actually in a pretty decent standing now.

It took a huge hit, but getting on Steam and with the constant updates, it has definitely been getting it's footing back.

I think you could make the argument Warcraft's cultural phenomenon status was duplicated when Minecraft existed.

Oh absolutely, I just thought of Fortnite first. But you could also argue that Minecraft's popularity transcends the levels of Warcraft's popularity tbh.

 

[dream1ng]

It's because she has more potential for a fun moveset.

It's mostly because she was a Nintendo-oriented indie that looked like she meshed well with the cast in a time those qualities could get you further popularity-wise, then her momentum was uninhibited by the more popular Shovel Knight getting deconfirmed.

Are they? Cuphead has one game. Undertale is, like, 1 and a half.

Shantae is a long running, well established game franchise with 6 games going back over 20 years.

They are.

Not all games are equal. Atelier has almost 30 games going back almost as many years, and then there's Fortnite.

Undertale and Cuphead have wider reach, be it more global popularity, much higher audience numbers, an actual TV show, etc, despite fewer games.

I know this is only worth so much, but look at the google results:
Shantae:

Cuphead:

Undertale:

Shantae is an example of right place, right time with the time in which she was demanded matching up with the Smash Ballot, not in small part due to the developers themselves feeding the bandwagon. Nowadays, her games have fallen off and bigger indies have entered the scene much more organically than her

The thing is that Shantae has been sticking around longer than usual indie characters that come and go. Sure, she isn't that impactful like Undertale via Sans, Hollow Knight, Hades, Shovel Knight, and Cave Story to name some. She could've disappeared into obscurity if Pirate's Curse didn't save the series years ago.

Yeah, I remember her and Shovel Knight being the indies that outclassed the rest during the ballot. And for back then, under the Nintendo-association paradigm that was thought important, I understand why she gained popularity.

Then some characters are lucky enough to have that grandfather them forward despite changing terrain, tho ofc having regular-ish releases helps. Like, if we finally got a proper Shovel Knight 2, that would certainly bump him back up a bit.

And I don't have anything against the character, it's just her being equated to indies who... are just in a league above her that gives me pause. Like, the first indie being Shantae? Over, for instance... Sans? It's a tall order.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

You know, given the thing I said about humanoid characters and there being more echoes and a semi clone in Ultimate’s base game, and that Smash 6 likely won’t be hindered to the point of repeating those things, I do think Shovel Knight may have a better chance at being playable in Smash 6. Maybe Shantae, too.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

My opinion is that Sans or any Undertale character is the most likely indie rep with Shantae and Shovel Knight not being far behind.

 

[Gengar84]

One thing that I like about WarCraft and League of Legends more than the other cultural phenomenon games like Minecraft and Fortnite is that they have lore and worlds with fully fleshed out characters with their own backstories and cool designs and powers. Minecraft and Fortnite characters are typically more blank slate avatars so they’re not quite as exciting to me. That clearly didn’t stop Steve getting into Smash so it’s not a dealbreaker but I feel like having actual characters that people care about should help a lot.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

My opinion is that Sans or any Undertale character is the most likely indie rep with Shantae and Shovel Knight not being far behind.

I can see those happening.

Also, one other thing to everyone; remember the Smash Ballot?

With the game that followed, Smash Brothers Ultimate, which focused on Everyone is Here, which limited time and maybe resources for base game, I think Ultimate was not a good game to follow up on the ballot, if you know what I mean, even with its DLC.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don’t know if they’d go as far as reviving a dormant series just for that purpose.

I do!

Sakurai's Office:
3P: "Can we put Arthur/Rizer/Hayabusa/Kunio in Smash Ultimate?!"
Sak: "I don't think so. He hasn't had a game in over 10 years."
3P: "We'll fix that!" throws together a retro-style digital release on Switch
Sak: "Maybe for Smash 6."
ArcSys: makes, like, three more
Sak: sigh "Fine. Have a Spirit Event."

If we got a Blizzard rep, which one do you think it's more likely: Diablo, Starcraft, World of Warcraft or Overwatch?

Blizzard would probably want Overwatch.

I want Illidan or Kerrigan.

 

[Gengar84]

I do!

Sakurai's Office:
3P: "Can we put Arthur/Rizer/Hayabusa/Kunio in Smash Ultimate?!"
Sak: "I don't think so. He hasn't had a game in over 10 years."
3P: "We'll fix that!" throws together a retro-style digital release on Switch
Sak: "Maybe for Smash 6."
ArcSys: makes, like, three more
Sak: sigh "Fine. Have a Spirit Event."

Blizzard would probably want Overwatch.

I want Illidan or Kerrigan.

We have the exact same two most wanted Blizzard characters. That’s cool.

Anyways, lack of recent appearances in games didn’t stop characters like Banjo, K. Rool, Pit, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers, or others. I don’t think Sakurai would say no just because they haven’t had a game in a while. I think Hayabusa was already likely before these new games.

 

[BrawlX10]

I agree. It doesn’t stop the salty, obnoxious people posting that question online though.

Sometimes, hoes just mad.

Watch some people call characters like Popular Character from Genshin Impact, Malenia from Elden Ring, Claptrap from Boderlands, Yasuo from League of Legends or Sylvanas from World of Warcraft "literally who" if they get in lol, simply because they're not as promient in Nintendo consoles.