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I’m guessing DLC. I think we’re only getting a few base game third party newcomers and they will be limited to characters with strong Nintendo connections. DLC will likely be anything goes where we could see things like Fortnite.
For base game, the third party characters I feel most confident in are Shadow the Hedgehog, Zero, and Ryu Hayabusa. I could also see a Tales character in this spot considering Namco will likely be helping with the game. Most others, I’d lean DLC.
I’m guessing DLC. I think we’re only getting a few base game third party newcomers and they will be limited to characters with strong Nintendo connections. DLC will likely be anything goes where we could see things like Fortnite.
For base game, the third party characters I feel most confident in are Shadow the Hedgehog, Zero, and Ryu Hyabusa. I could also see a Tales character in this spot considering Namco will likely be helping with the game. Most others, I’d lean DLC.
Thinking about it and unrelated to Jonesy, I could see we geting a inde character in the base game if we get Zagreus, Hollow Knight, Shovel Knight or Shantae, they would probably be cheap to include an would make plenty of people hyped. Sans seems more DLC material, though, not because of the undertale license begin necesarily more expensive, but more because he'll probably sell like crazy.
Now going back to Jonesy, yeah, he does make more sense as DLC, base game newcomer 3rdparties are likely probably going to be double dips like Geese, Shadow, Zero, Chun-li or Legacy characters like Arthur, Bomberman, Bill Rizer, Axel Stone or Ryu Hayabusa.
Jonesy, Ramirez, Skull Trooper, Brite Bomber, Peely, Cuddle Team Leader, Midas and Drift are my guess.
For a easter egg, it would be cool if the items Midas pick ups turn into Gold.
If Event Tourneys return in Smash 6, it would be cool if Fortnite event toruney was "Solid Gold" were all fighters have the Gold status effect, a reference of the mode from Fortnite.
Thinking about it, it's kind of difficult to think of a Robot Master that would be added. The pool of characters here would likely just be the super popular ones, which I think limits us to Cut Man, Guts Man, Metal Man, Quick Man, Air Man, Shadow Man, and if you dig a little deeper, I think Pharoah Man, and Gemini Man can squeak in as well.
Of these, I think Pharoah Man and Shadow Man is the only two to have a varied moveset assuming we're taking his arcade appearances into account. The rest kind of spam a single attack pattern at you and a decent amount of them already have their only attack in Mega Man's moveset.
Mavericks would probably be a safer bet since even the simpler ones have multiple attack patterns.
Thinking about it, it's kind of difficult to think of a Robot Master that would be added. The pool of characters here would likely just be the super popular ones, which I think limits us to Cut Man, Guts Man, Metal Man, Quick Man, Air Man, Shadow Man, and if you dig a little deeper, I think Pharoah Man, and Gemini Man can squeak in as well.
Of these, I think Pharoah Man and Shadow Man is the only two to have a varied moveset assuming we're taking his arcade appearances into account. The rest kind of spam a single attack pattern at you and a decent amount of them already have their only attack in Mega Man's moveset.
Mavericks would probably be a safer bet since even the simpler ones have multiple attack patterns.
Well Elec Man was a dedicated Assist Trophy in Smash 4 (that didn't get brought back in Ultimate for some reason?), that might show he's viewed as more relevant.
Who are we predicting for the Joker spot as the first big DLC character to kick things off? I admit that my bias is likely clouding my judgement a bit but I feel like Jinx has a real shot here. She’s pretty massive in pop culture and her game has been huge for years but doesn’t overlap much with Smash speculation for various reasons. I feel like she’d be a perfect analogue to Joker in that she’d remind everyone that anything is possible.
This Smash is going to be very interesting because a lot of my favorite characters have legitimate arguments to get in but they could just as easily all miss the boat. For quite a few characters on my list, things are lining up better for them now than at any time in the past. It will definitely make the speculation season interesting for me even if I don’t end up with anyone on my most wanted list.
Who are we predicting for the Joker spot as the first big DLC character to kick things off? I admit that my bias is likely clouding my judgement a bit but I feel like Jinx has a real shot here. She’s pretty massive in pop culture and her game has been huge for years but doesn’t overlap much with Smash speculation for various reasons. I feel like she’d be a perfect analogue to Joker in that she’d remind everyone that anything is possible.
This Smash is going to be very interesting because a lot of my favorite characters have legitimate arguments to get in but they could just as easily all miss the boat. For quite a few characters on my list, things are lining up better for them now than at any time in the past. It will definitely make the speculation season interesting for me even if I don’t end up with anyone on my most wanted list.
Crash, hotly requested 3rd Party that could either act as a suprise in a Direct or even as a TGA surprise. Owned by Microsoft too who I think wouldn't passs up the chance to include even more of their characters. Could also work as compensation for having Steve and Banjo in the base game, so they get the 1st DLC slot that will probably be one of the best selling characters.
Who are we predicting for the Joker spot as the first big DLC character to kick things off? I admit that my bias is likely clouding my judgement a bit but I feel like Jinx has a real shot here. She’s pretty massive in pop culture and her game has been huge for years but doesn’t overlap much with Smash speculation for various reasons. I feel like she’d be a perfect analogue to Joker in that she’d remind everyone that anything is possible.
This Smash is going to be very interesting because a lot of my favorite characters have legitimate arguments to get in but they could just as easily all miss the boat. For quite a few characters on my list, things are lining up better for them now than at any time in the past. It will definitely make the speculation season interesting for me even if I don’t end up with anyone on my most wanted list.
Funnily enough, one that immediately comes to mind is another Sega character.
Considering the whole "will they or won't they?" in regards to whether or not he'll actually have a major guest appearance in anything, as well as just how much bigger the series has gotten over the years, I definitely think he'd elicit pretty similar reactions to Joker's reveal.
Who are we predicting for the Joker spot as the first big DLC character to kick things off? I admit that my bias is likely clouding my judgement a bit but I feel like Jinx has a real shot here. She’s pretty massive in pop culture and her game has been huge for years but doesn’t overlap much with Smash speculation for various reasons. I feel like she’d be a perfect analogue to Joker in that she’d remind everyone that anything is possible.
This Smash is going to be very interesting because a lot of my favorite characters have legitimate arguments to get in but they could just as easily all miss the boat. For quite a few characters on my list, things are lining up better for them now than at any time in the past. It will definitely make the speculation season interesting for me even if I don’t end up with anyone on my most wanted list.
My guesses:
. Master Chief
. Dante
. Crash
. Sans
. Jinx, Ahri or Yasuo
. Fortnite
. 2B
. Genshin Impact
. Malenia
I think Fortnite, Elden Ring, League and Genshin Impact are more likely than people think honestly, not necesarily as the first fighter, but in general.
On a side note, what newcomers from each games do you think were the most suprising or not expected when they were added, obviously at the time of their reveal/adition, not from a 2025 prespective.
Well Elec Man was a dedicated Assist Trophy in Smash 4 (that didn't get brought back in Ultimate for some reason?), that might show he's viewed as more relevant.
My guesses:
. Master Chief
. Dante
. Crash
. Sans
. Jinx, Ahri or Yasuo
. Fortnite
. 2B
. Genshin Impact
. Malenia
I think Fortnite, Elden Ring, League and Genshin Impact are more likely than people think honestly, not necesarily as the first fighter, but in general.
On a side note, what newcomers from each games do you think were the most suprising or not expected when they were added, obviously at the time of their reveal/adition, not from a 2025 prespective.
Before I order them, I’ll lay out my thoughts of each character’s merits and drawbacks.
Belmonts: I think there are two draws that would help them make it to the next game: Castlevania was a third party franchise that fans heavily wanted based on the ballot, and Konami seemed to provide a large amount of Castlevania content in Ultimate. I’d say that their biggest drawback is competing with other highly requested fighters (Banjo and Sora) or characters who come from franchises with a larger legacy. Ken (are we counting echoes?): Even if echoes are pruned, I assume that Ken would be one that’s prioritized next game given his gaming legacy and that Ryu is probably returning. Joker: While I think he’s one of the less probable ones, Persona is a historically significant franchise, and I could see Nintendo/Atlus keep Joker to maintain their relationship, and Joker’s character/moveset may be something influences Sakurai to keep him. Hero: I never really think much about Hero in terms of speculation oddly enough. For the moment, I kind of see him possibly being one of the less likely ones depending on where Square Enix and Nintendo’s priorities lie, and it doesn’t help that Hero has less of a draw to Sakurai compared to Joker and Terry. Banjo & Kazooie: They feel like one of the more probable third parties to return out of the ones debuting in Ultimate given that they were a highly requested fighter, and they were relatively easy to get the negotiations for. While Banjo-Kazooie is dormant, that isn’t going to be a major detriment like with Ness or Pit. Terry: He feel like Joker where I think Sakurai’s interest would be the primary driver to keep him on the roster, and it feels like his prioritiy just gets reduced by other third parties here. Steve: I could see him be a high priority given that Nintendo worked with Microsoft for four or five years for the negotiations on Steve, and they have done some future proofing. Sephiroth: Final Fantasy VII will probably return in some form, and it really depends on how Square Enix wants to approach it: maybe Cloud is just base game, maybe a third fighter is DLC, and the other two are base, or Cloud and Sephiroth are a packaged deal. Kazuya: A Tekken character was considered back in 2015, but I feel like Banjo, the Belmonts, and Sora had more requests, and Steve and Final Fantasy have been a bigger focus, so I can see Kazuya being a lower priority. Sora: From Ultimate’s third party newcomers, I could see Sora being one of the more likely ones to return as he was heavily requested, and negotiating with Disney seemed to be easy.
For the moment, I’m leaning towards this:
Ken (if we’re counting him)
Banjo & Kazooie
Belmonts
Steve
Sora
Sephiroth
Joker
Terry
Hero
Kazuya
Bowser Jr. was leaked by the ESRB. He never got a negative reception then, but he was largely overshadowed by the rest of the leak. His trailer, while viewed positively wasn't mind blowing. If Jr. was revealed before the ESRB leak, would he be treated more positively?
I’d assume that Bowser Jr. would have received a positive reception if revealed outside of the ESRB leak. From what I remember, he was one of or even the frontrunner for the Super Mario series, and while some argued that a franchise could only have four or five fighters at the time, Super Mario is one of the few franchises where having six or so fighters wouldn’t be negatively received.
I’m unsure how the DLC cycle will be approached next game, but some choices that cool be cool to see as openers that aren’t as highly speculated would include Majima, Chosen Undead, Sol Badguy, or Ragna.
If we’re going by prominence, I’d probably say Excitebike is the most prominent dormant franchise without a fighter (assuming that Nintendogs and Brain Age won’t have a fighter deemed feasible by Sakurai).
For more relevant franchises, Ring Fit Adventure is the frontrunner here given its success.
In terms of requests, I think Golden Sun has the most requested fighter from a franchise not in SSB yet.
While they’re not as notable, Rhythm Heaven, Famicon Detective Club, Advance Wars, and Astral Chain are a few IPs that could also lend themselves to an interesting fighter.
Who are we predicting for the Joker spot as the first big DLC character to kick things off? I admit that my bias is likely clouding my judgement a bit but I feel like Jinx has a real shot here. She’s pretty massive in pop culture and her game has been huge for years but doesn’t overlap much with Smash speculation for various reasons. I feel like she’d be a perfect analogue to Joker in that she’d remind everyone that anything is possible.
This Smash is going to be very interesting because a lot of my favorite characters have legitimate arguments to get in but they could just as easily all miss the boat. For quite a few characters on my list, things are lining up better for them now than at any time in the past. It will definitely make the speculation season interesting for me even if I don’t end up with anyone on my most wanted list.
Dragon Quest is absolutely massive in Japan though. It's pretty much considered a national treasure and the average Japanese's reaction to Hero was comparable if not bigger to the average Westerner's reaction to Sora or Steve. The Square Enix characters are all very unlikely to return anyway but if only 1 did return, I don't see how it's not Hero.
When I was much younger, I saw that SSF2 was going to be adding a character creator. They didn't end up doing this, but I started making sprites for a character that I wanted to make. The character in question? Snake Man.
I think he was my favorite Robot Master at the time? I dunno. My idea for him involved turning into a giant snake and dashing upward for his up special. Thinking about it, it was kinda funny how much I made up since his only attack is Search Snake in the source material.
My guesses:
. Master Chief
. Dante
. Crash
. Sans
. Jinx, Ahri or Yasuo
. Fortnite
. 2B
. Genshin Impact
. Malenia
I think Fortnite, Elden Ring, League and Genshin Impact are more likely than people think honestly, not necesarily as the first fighter, but in general.
Now that Steve made it into Ultimate, I think that opens the door to these types of games that people might have dismissed before. As long as the character is cool and fun to play, I’m down for pretty much anything.
As far as League, I do have experience with all three of those characters. Jinx through Arcane and Ahri and Yasuo through Ruined King. I think any of them could be great. My only small hangup with Yasuo is that he’s another swordsman in a game already full of them. We don’t really have any eastern style swordsmen besides maybe Sephiroth so he’d still stand out that way.
I was just thinking of that. I’m curious what everyone thinks of this game. It’s definitely interesting but it’s giving me the same vibes as that Bomberman game that everyone hated for trying to be too dark and edgy back in the day. Definitely not something I ever expected from the franchise. I’d happily take a stage from this game over Pac-Land. The stage we have now looks like a kid drew it in and Paint.
I thought more people would feel this way, but as a big classic Namco fan, I must admit I am a hater. I think it's just about the least interesting thing they could've possibly done with their retro backlog, and to me it really just looks like a bogstandard Modern Metroidvania with the Pac-Man license vaguely tacked on. I really don't understand what people are seeing in it beyond the initial shock factor of "wow it's Pac-Man but edgy!" but I'm probably biased as someone who cares way too much about these games
I thought more people would feel this way, but as a big classic Namco fan, I must admit I am a hater. I think it's just about the least interesting thing they could've possibly done with their retro backlog, and to me it really just looks like a bogstandard Modern Metroidvania with the Pac-Man license vaguely tacked on. I really don't understand what people are seeing in it beyond the initial shock factor of "wow it's Pac-Man but edgy!" but I'm probably biased as someone who cares way too much about these games
I thought more people would feel this way, but as a big classic Namco fan, I must admit I am a hater. I think it's just about the least interesting thing they could've possibly done with their retro backlog, and to me it really just looks like a bogstandard Modern Metroidvania with the Pac-Man license vaguely tacked on. I really don't understand what people are seeing in it beyond the initial shock factor of "wow it's Pac-Man but edgy!" but I'm probably biased as someone who cares way too much about these games
Yeah, I hear you. I get the feeling that this wasn’t what they were going for but for me it’s “Wow, this is so stupid that it’s actually pretty funny.” Of course, it would get less funny if this replaced classic Pac-Man but as a dumb one time spinoff, I’m cool with it. I probably won’t ever play it but it doesn’t offend me. I do get why it would if you were a huge fan of classic Pac-Man. It’s like if they made a DOOM game that looked and played like Animal Crossing. Funny for a one time thing but less so if they kept it up.
I thought more people would feel this way, but as a big classic Namco fan, I must admit I am a hater. I think it's just about the least interesting thing they could've possibly done with their retro backlog, and to me it really just looks like a bogstandard Modern Metroidvania with the Pac-Man license vaguely tacked on. I really don't understand what people are seeing in it beyond the initial shock factor of "wow it's Pac-Man but edgy!" but I'm probably biased as someone who cares way too much about these games
I don't mind different takes, especially if they are one-offs. Though I do wish Souls-likes/more recent Metrovanias did more with their setting than just "The world has gone to hell/is an awful place and everything and everybody is insane and broken." Doesn't help that that's been becoming the theme of alot of games recently.
I’d love to see a Mega Man Metroidvania where the different powers from the Robot Masters could help you traverse new areas and solve puzzles. Keep the same general aesthetic as the classic or X series but modernized. That could be a lot of fun.
I thought more people would feel this way, but as a big classic Namco fan, I must admit I am a hater. I think it's just about the least interesting thing they could've possibly done with their retro backlog, and to me it really just looks like a bogstandard Modern Metroidvania with the Pac-Man license vaguely tacked on. I really don't understand what people are seeing in it beyond the initial shock factor of "wow it's Pac-Man but edgy!" but I'm probably biased as someone who cares way too much about these games
As someone who never got deep into Pac-Man, I totally understand why the dedicated fandom would be miffed, but also I really like metroidvanias and that't enough to get me interested. The concept was kind of stupid when it was just the Secret Level episode, but the fact they doubled down and made a weird spinoff game out of the weird barely-accurate adaptation is honestly kind of impressive.
Though yeah, it does have a lot of the Standard Modern Soulslike/Hollow Knight-esque Metroidvania trappings, even if it's just aesthetic. The running with the cape covering their arms, the attack swings that aren't animated beyond the simple swish marks, the whole world having gone to hell... Though, I'll at least give some points for having a dedicated hellish maze location and not just "oops the apocalypse happened in the medieval kingdom and now everything is depressing."
I thought more people would feel this way, but as a big classic Namco fan, I must admit I am a hater. I think it's just about the least interesting thing they could've possibly done with their retro backlog, and to me it really just looks like a bogstandard Modern Metroidvania with the Pac-Man license vaguely tacked on. I really don't understand what people are seeing in it beyond the initial shock factor of "wow it's Pac-Man but edgy!" but I'm probably biased as someone who cares way too much about these games
The original Pac-Man games and other Namco arcade games are games I grew up with and loved playing. Pac-Man was basically one of the very first "gaming mascots" I was introduced to do alongside Link.
I honestly love their execution of the concept of Shadow Labyrinth so far since, as out of place as the standard Pac-man sprites and sound effects are in a dark Metroidvania, the way it's handled seems just self-aware enough yet still willing to go all in on the concept to be genuinely fun. That, and the game and level design just looks good.
I’d love to see a Mega Man Metroidvania where the different powers from the Robot Masters could help you traverse new areas and solve puzzles. Keep the same general aesthetic as the classic or X series but modernized. That could be a lot of fun.
I don’t know how I feel about the fact that this next smash will most likely feature mostly 3rd Parties as newcomers again.
Now I’m sure we’ll get the usual Pokémon, Fire Emblem, and maybe Mario characters but other than that I’m not sure if we’ll get much else.
That’s kind of a double edged sword to me. On one hand I love the excitement of never ever 3rd Parties getting in like Master Chief, Kiryu, 2B, Hayabusa, etc. but on the other I’m going to be just a little disappointed if we don’t get characters like Raven Beak, Elma or a Xeno 3 character, a Rhythm Heaven character, and Officer Howard.
It’s definitely a weird time in the legacy of Smash.
I don’t know how I feel about the fact that this next smash will most likely feature mostly 3rd Parties as newcomers again.
Now I’m sure we’ll get the usual Pokémon, Fire Emblem, and maybe Mario characters but other than that I’m not sure if we’ll get much else.
That’s kind of a double edged sword to me. On one hand I love the excitement of never ever 3rd Parties getting in like Master Chief, Kiryu, 2B, Hayabusa, etc. but on the other I’m going to be just a little disappointed if we don’t get characters like Raven Beak, Elma or a Xeno 3 character, a Rhythm Heaven character, and Officer Howard.
It’s definitely a weird time in the legacy of Smash.
I think we’ll get a fair amount of first party characters in the base game and mostly third parties as DLC like we got for Ultimate. Even then, we still got a few first party characters as DLC. I wouldn’t be so quick to write off a Xenoblade or Metroid newcomer. The large majority of my remaining most wanted characters are third party so I’m okay with the shift. There’s still a lot of first party characters I want too but they’re either less likely in general or would likely be echoes if they did get in, which is less exciting.
I've said this before, but I'm hoping the roster for the next Smash game will balance out first-party and third-party characters. That includes newcomers.
I don’t know how I feel about the fact that this next smash will most likely feature mostly 3rd Parties as newcomers again.
Now I’m sure we’ll get the usual Pokémon, Fire Emblem, and maybe Mario characters but other than that I’m not sure if we’ll get much else.
That’s kind of a double edged sword to me. On one hand I love the excitement of never ever 3rd Parties getting in like Master Chief, Kiryu, 2B, Hayabusa, etc. but on the other I’m going to be just a little disappointed if we don’t get characters like Raven Beak, Elma or a Xeno 3 character, a Rhythm Heaven character, and Officer Howard.
It’s definitely a weird time in the legacy of Smash.
I've said this before, but I'm hoping the roster for the next Smash game will balance out first-party and third-party characters. That includes newcomers.
So, you want a roster that’s 50/50 between first party and third party characters? I think the newcomers would have to be entirely third party if they want to get close to that.
So, you want a roster that’s 50/50 between first party and third party characters? I think the newcomers would have to be entirely third party if they want to get close to that.
I was just thinking of that. I’m curious what everyone thinks of this game. It’s definitely interesting but it’s giving me the same vibes as that Bomberman game that everyone hated for trying to be too dark and edgy back in the day. Definitely not something I ever expected from the franchise. I’d happily take a stage from this game over Pac-Land. The stage we have now looks like a kid drew it in MS Paint.
As much as Pac-Land is bad, I don't think Shadow labyrinth is really the way to go for a Pac-Man stage. Like yeah maybe the stage would be more fun, but it doesn't help the main problem that it would be a pretty poor Pac-Man representation. Maybe if there's enough spot for multiple Pac-Man stage, I'd take something else + Shadow labyrinth, but having Shadow labyrinth alone wouldn't represent the Pac-Man universe very well.
Playing Namco Museum on my older sister's PS2 was a big part of my childhood, so I'm pretty fond of classic . (I like the original World too but never got into its sequels.)
So, as strange as this might be, I'm actually really, really excited. (The fact it's a Metroidvania definitely helps.) It is jarringly different, but it doesn't feel cynical. And we know this isn't some replacement for the original character. It's an off-the-wall project because they had a cool idea and ran with it. I don't think it's quite fair to compare it to something like Bomberman: Act Zero. (Which I don't entirely hate either though I understand why most people do within the context of its release.)
All this to say, that while I've been a longtime supporter of adding Ms. Pac-Man to Smash, if she's stuck in legal limbo, I'd unironically be down for No. 8 and Puck to be our second Pac-Man rep.
