Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

If they do make another Super Mario Maker, it'd be cool if we could play as more characters. We can already play as Link in the second game but imagine if the third game also had Samus, Kirby, and...maybe some third-party characters like Mega Man? Super Mario Bros. Crossover could become an official thing like that.

 

[SharkLord]

Youthfully optimistic? I’m turning 41 this month lol. Look, I know it might not make a difference but what’s the alternative? I know I’ll have a clearer conscience if I at least try.

Anyway, back on topic, since it was confirmed that Sakurai’s mystery project was Kirby Air Riders and we won’t be seeing Smash for a while now it opens up the door to more recent characters that might have missed their chance for the base roster otherwise. Are there any characters you really want to see that have better chances now that the development is starting later?

When discussing the ramifications of Smash 6 possibly being Sakurai's secret project, the general agreement was that anything released after 2022-2023ish was at risk. The primary benefactors from that time period are Bandana Dee (Debuted way earlier, but Forgotten Land's given a substantial boon to his prominence), Noah and Mio, any Gen 9 Pokemon, Alear, anyone introduced in Tears of the Kingdom, potential reworks for the Zelda vets based on TotK or EoW, Oatchi, and depending on how favorably you view the XCX port, Elma.

Out of them, Noah and/or Mio, the ScarVi Pokemon, and Alear are still on shaky ground, depending on when and how the roster is set. If the roster's been hammered out already, they've got a pretty decent shot at making the roster. But if Sakurai hasn't finalized the roster yet, or if he's planning ahead for upcoming releases, there's a good chance they'll be cycled out in terms of "hot new thing" status. Elma's in a similar boat, plus the fact that XCX DE is just a remaster and not a full new installment, which likely puts her a bit lower in terms of priority.

TotK content feels safer; We're still getting spinoffs for the Champion timeline, and with how long these games take to make nowadays, we might not see another mainline Zelda for another couple of years, so this current branch of the series will probably hang around in the public concience a little while longer. That said, the wealth of options for TotK newcomers makes it hard to pin down any one character; I wouldn't rule out one, but they're competing with each other and the possibility of a Ganondorf rework.

This leaves Bandana Dee and Oatchi as the biggest benefactors. Bandana Dee has been a major character and popular request ever since Kirby's Return to Dreamland, and his significance has only increased since then. Forgotten Land firmly cemented him as Kirby's No. 2, while also being the series' big breakout hit. Similarly, Pikmin 4 brought the series into the public eye with its sales, and since it doesn't get new releases as often as other series, Oatchi will probably remain an important face of the series for a while.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

To stear the conversation to something less depressing. How likely do you guys think Melee is for NSO? It's weird Smash 64 was never added right? But surely Melee will be something they'll fight to include?

To be fair the wii u never got smash 64 on VC. Or brawl on the eshop for that matter, despite loads of prominent wii games showing up. I wonder if they just want people to focus on the newest game and think that could act as competition.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

To stear the conversation to something less depressing. How likely do you guys think Melee is for NSO? It's weird Smash 64 was never added right? But surely Melee will be something they'll fight to include?

It could happen but not 100% sure. 64 and Melee wouldn’t have the licensing issues compared to later games and especially since 64 was on the Wii’s VC. 64 isn’t on Switch Online yet so probably later on.

Wouldn’t matter to competitive players since they will probably play on the original hardware or through other means.

The games included are generally almost identical to the original releases so I don’t think the Japanese and American versions will be the same as PAL.

 

[NintenRob]

To be fair the wii u never got smash 64 on VC. Or brawl on the eshop for that matter, despite loads of prominent wii games showing up. I wonder if they just want people to focus on the newest game and think that could act as competition.

It's unusual though, like does Smash have weird legal issues to rerelease? Even without the third parties you do have a bunch of different companies involved, like HAL, Game freak, Ape, ect. And of course Sakurai himself. But they DID release Smash 64 on the Wii Shop. So what's changed? It's curious to think about.

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

Consider this...

Cranky Kong is added to the next Smash game.
BUT
Diddy Kong and King K. Rool are both cut, and everything else related to Rare's DK games are taken out.

Discuss.

(Note: This is solely due to the growing theory that Nintendo wants to soft-reboot Donkey Kong back to the arcade days. Subject to change.)

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Consider this...

Cranky Kong is added to the next Smash game.
BUT
Diddy Kong and King K. Rool are both cut, and everything else related to Rare's DK games are taken out.

Discuss.

(Note: This is solely due to the growing theory that Nintendo wants to soft-reboot Donkey Kong back to the arcade days. Subject to change.)

I understand K. Rool, but I also understand Diddy, given his crimes.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It's unusual though, like does Smash have weird legal issues to rerelease? Even without the third parties you do have a bunch of different companies involved, like HAL, Game freak, Ape, ect. And of course Sakurai himself. But they DID release Smash 64 on the Wii Shop. So what's changed? It's curious to think about.

I mean considering 64 and Melee were made when Sakurai was still at HAL, I doubt it has anything to do with Sakurai's personal preferences on this stuff, and even now, considering he's basically a contracted director for Smash but Nintendo owns the rights, obviously. Like he can voice his opinion on rereleases like that probably, but Nintendo owns the rights, so they'd have final say between the two.

I could MAYBE see a group like Pokemon Company/Game Freak or Itoi being involved, but Pokemon spin-offs have been on NSO for a while and they approve of their characters every time a new game rolls around anyway presumably, so it really is just a crapshoot to think about why 64 and Melee don't get rereleases. Like sure, you could say it's to keep pushing the new one but that didn't stop Mario Kart from being on like every NSO app while 8 Deluxe was running around becoming the fifth best selling video game ever made lol

 

[CosmicEternity44]

By the way, price aside, anyone know how powerful the Switch 2 is? Is it as powerful as Microsoft and Sony’s newest consoles or their previous consoles before the latest ones?

 

[Gengar84]

Consider this...

Cranky Kong is added to the next Smash game.
BUT
Diddy Kong and King K. Rool are both cut, and everything else related to Rare's DK games are taken out.

Discuss.

(Note: This is solely due to the growing theory that Nintendo wants to soft-reboot Donkey Kong back to the arcade days. Subject to change.)

I would be extremely disappointed. RARE is one of my all time favorite game companies and I absolutely loved the SNES DKC games. DKC2 in particular is one of my favorite games ever made. I never really cared about DK before DKC and I think I’m about to go back to not caring about DK after the redesign. The new design and game loses everything I loved about the character and series in favor of Son of the Mask level zaniness that I’m not really a fan of to say the least. The gameplay does look fun but also completely different from the series I loved.

 

[Ivander]

View attachment 401105
Weee!

Speaking of art, do you think we could see a new Mario Paint to take advantage of the mouse feature? I think the mouse has the potential to make creating stages easier in Stage Builder too.

I don't know about a new Mario Paint, but I could see Mario Paint for the NSO happen, especially with the new mouse controls. Light-gun games like Duck Hunt, Hogan's Alley and Gumshoe could also happen too.

To stear the conversation to something less depressing. How likely do you guys think Melee is for NSO? It's weird Smash 64 was never added right? But surely Melee will be something they'll fight to include?

No idea at this point. A Dual-release of Smash 64 and Smash Melee would be cool to see, but considering we still don't have some notables in other NSO libraries like Wario Land 1 and 2 for GB, Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones for GBA and Donkey Kong 64 & Diddy Kong Racing for N64(which shouldn't have any issues now considering Rare has put out titles like both Banjos, Goldeneye, Killer Instinct, Battletoads, Blast Corp and Jet Force Gemini on the NSO), it could be a long time before either title happens.

And I didn't mention Mario Golf Advance and Mario Tennis Power Tour because while those are also notably missing, with Gamecube NSO being a thing now, those I could see getting released alongside Mario Golf Toadstool Tour and Mario Power Tennis.

 

[SharkLord]

Consider this...

Cranky Kong is added to the next Smash game.
BUT
Diddy Kong and King K. Rool are both cut, and everything else related to Rare's DK games are taken out.

Discuss.

(Note: This is solely due to the growing theory that Nintendo wants to soft-reboot Donkey Kong back to the arcade days. Subject to change.)

If they wanted to soft-reboot DK to the arcade days, I don't see why they'd keep around a Rare creation. Yeah, he's canonically supposed to be the arcade DK in his elder years, but the concept of "Cranky Kong" is undeniably a DKC thing. They've also ported over DKCR, featured Diddy in the Mario Movie and in a Super Nintendo Land ride, and Bananza has apes clearly based on Diddy, so it doesn't seem like they're trying to erase Diddy entirely, either.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I almost wonder if not rereleasing 64 and Melee right off the bat is just because Nintendo doesn't wanna have to pay Microsoft some licensing money just because the Motion-Sensor Bombs looked like the ones in GoldenEye in 64, and then in Melee you have that for the international release and Perfect Dark mines for the Japanese release lol

Like that's the only thing in either of those games I can think of that's technically third party, though it wasn't at the time. But then again I have to wonder why that'd be such a big deal considering they have full on Rare games like Banjo Kazooie and Tooie on NSO, and I doubt they'd have to pay much licensing for just a mine, at least for Perfect Dark's, since GoldenEye is a weird legal area, but again, GoldenEye is on NSO, so...

 

[Guynamednelson]

and then in Melee you have that for the international release and Perfect Dark mines for the Japanese release

The Cloaking Device was a Perfect Dark item in all versions of Melee, too.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t know if it’s just me and I don’t know if I can explain this well but what I loved about the original trilogy was partly the tranquility of it all. There’s an almost haunting atmosphere in a lot of the stages and the scenery and music really pulls you in and immerses you in a way that almost no game has done before or since. This new game gives me strong vibes of the Son of the Mask movie, which is one of my least favorite movies ever made. It just goes so over the top trying to be wacky and zany that it loses all the tranquility the series had previously. It’s not just that I don’t care for the actual design of the character, but the tone of the game has changed so much that it’s unrecognizable.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The Cloaking Device was a Perfect Dark item in all versions of Melee, too.

True, but considering both of those games are on the Mature NSO, I'd be surprised if either item was the reason for it lol

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Consider this...

Cranky Kong is added to the next Smash game.
BUT
Diddy Kong and King K. Rool are both cut, and everything else related to Rare's DK games are taken out.

Discuss.

(Note: This is solely due to the growing theory that Nintendo wants to soft-reboot Donkey Kong back to the arcade days. Subject to change.)

I don’t think Nintendo is retiring the other Rare characters. I think they want to just simply wanted to focus on DK as the main character. Also Rambi is supposedly also in the game.

If they wanted to then they wouldn’t have appeared in the Mario Movie or Super Nintendo World.

It’s like how Luigi’s appearances in the 3D games are inconsistent like not appearing at all (64, Sunshine, Bowser's Fury), not playable (Odyssey), post game/unlockable (Galaxy, 3D Land, 64 DS) or available from the start (3D World).

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

Consider this...

Cranky Kong is added to the next Smash game.
BUT
Diddy Kong and King K. Rool are both cut, and everything else related to Rare's DK games are taken out.

Discuss.

(Note: This is solely due to the growing theory that Nintendo wants to soft-reboot Donkey Kong back to the arcade days. Subject to change.)

Diddy Kong getting cut is impossible, he is very popular character and it can be unfair,mainly he became removed on Smash

while King K. Rool, probably he could be removed in Smash, even Nintendo is not using the kremlings on the current DK games, but even K. Rool was a most requested character for join in Smash, it could be a desappointing for he get cut

and i don't really know on why Nintendo could be Rare characters, i know that Nintendo can't use Rare anymore by Rare is from Microsoft currently, but the characters made for their own company, that is so hard, if Dark Samus was cutted in Smash 6, it could be just becasue if Retro Studios was purchased by another company or just because for removing the echo fighter idea?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Consider this...

Cranky Kong is added to the next Smash game.
BUT
Diddy Kong and King K. Rool are both cut, and everything else related to Rare's DK games are taken out.

Discuss.

(Note: This is solely due to the growing theory that Nintendo wants to soft-reboot Donkey Kong back to the arcade days. Subject to change.)

If they wanted to soft-reboot DK to the arcade days, I don't see why they'd keep around a Rare creation. Yeah, he's canonically supposed to be the arcade DK in his elder years, but the concept of "Cranky Kong" is undeniably a DKC thing. They've also ported over DKCR, featured Diddy in the Mario Movie and in a Super Nintendo Land ride, and Bananza has apes clearly based on Diddy, so it doesn't seem like they're trying to erase Diddy entirely, either.

This, but also keep in mind that these are the Mario devs (and I'm sure that they're the Mario devs because this game is basically Super Mario Odyssey but with Donkey Kong). For them, characters are functions. If they can't think of something for a character to do, they just don't add them. Heck, Luigi wasn't in Super Mario Odyssey at launch.

That being said though, I suspect they just put a Kong on each level. Cranky's the first one you meet, but lower levels have Diddy and Dixie and Funky and...Well after that you'd have to start bringing back Kongs they stopped using like Wrinkly, Candy, or Chunky, so they may not go that far, but I wouldn't rule it out either.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

I also agree this discussion has gone on too long for what it's worth. I did contribute in extending it but to get back on the topic at hand of funny fighting game; I've recently been playing through the Trails series by Falcom and it's a really good set of JRPGs. Halfway through Trails in the Sky SC and Estelle Bright is lowkey in my top 5 most wanted fighters for next game now. I think she'd be really cool wielding a bow staff which allows for a very unique playstyle setting herself apart from other third party JRPG fighters

Awesome to hear man. I am happy to see more people getting into the Trails series lately since it’s arguably my favorite gaming franchise at the moment after finishing most of the games right now.

All main characters in Trails could work great as a smash bros character tho yeah Estelle Bright really does stand out with her unique weapon that’s not represented in smash.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

It’s not just that I don’t care for the actual design of the character, but the tone of the game has changed so much that it’s unrecognizable.

Dude, it's truly terrible from every angle.

First off, I feel like from a gameplay perspective DK has always been a precision platforming series (even going back to the arcade game). The one exception to this would be DK64 which is probably the most controversial and flawed game in the series. The core 5 DKC entries are probably the most hardcore platformers of any Nintendo franchise barring, like, Lost Levels. Bananza totally misses the mark on this front by...seemingly barely being a platformer.

Then, there's the characters. Visual redesign or not, the Kong family itself is a huge draw and something the fans of the series have identified deeply with. I don't think it's a stretch to say that 95% of fans, if asked, would want to see every Kong return in some form, and for us to meet even more new members of the family. This makes the absence of Diddy, Dixie, and the other Kongs feel completely tonedeaf to me in a way that's hard to overstate. Meeting more extended-family Kongs, seeing changes to the family such as Wrinkly dying and becoming a ghost between games - I understand that gameplay-wise you gotta do what makes sense; but these guys should at least have appearances as shopkeepers, recurring NPCs, tutorial-givers, something. Same goes for the Animal Buddies and the Kremlings. Tweaking their exact design or function is one thing - completely not even mentioning or featuring them is another.

These open-zone games are also not emphasizing the identity of the settings themselves very well. In the first wave of 3D platformers, the hub worlds made sense and had meaning without having to be huge. Peach's Castle, Gruntilda's Lair, DK Isles - these central hubs are fun to explore but are memorable because they're locations that open up over time and serve a narrative function. They directly reinforce the entire reason you're on your journey in a way that Sublevel 1,246 of an absurdist mineshaft will never be able to.

That's not even touching the music, the "what if you just... didn't even have to solve the puzzle?" type of hollow game design carried straight out of BotW / TotK, DK wearing denim overalls, Chunky erasure via DK being given the Hulk-esque strength powers, the absolutely hideous enemy and boss characters... it's a mess.

 

[DarthEnderX]

For a party that's supposed to be against discrimination, the Democrats sure like sparking unnecessary fights instead of just turning the other cheek. I'm a card carrying liberal but my god it sucks. The Republicans hate me for being liberal, the Democrats hate me for not being an activist about every little cause (I.E. you're not liberal enough!). It's so freaking tiring, man.

I’m sorry but that’s insane reasoning. By that logic everything is political

To stear the conversation to something less depressing. How likely do you guys think Melee is for NSO? It's weird Smash 64 was never added right?

Hasn't been added YET.

Just because Gamecube NSO is out doesn't mean N64 NSO is over.

By the way, price aside, anyone know how powerful the Switch 2 is? Is it as powerful as Microsoft and Sony’s newest consoles or their previous consoles before the latest ones?

Supposedly PS4-ish.

 

[SharkLord]

Same goes for the Animal Buddies and the Kremlings. Tweaking their exact design or function is one thing - completely not even mentioning or featuring them is another.

I haven't seen the Treehouse footage yet, but there's screenshots where Cranky mentions Rambi by name, and there's even a little Rambi icon next to his name for emphasis.

Better look at Cranky looks like Rambi is here! pic.twitter.com/vuc5rC9Aa2

— ExpandDong(Donkey Kong Bananza AHHHH) (@ExpandDong15) April 3, 2025

I don't have enough knowledge on the DK series to judge, but it seems likely there's more DKC elements in there, we just haven't seen them yet

 

[Louie G.]

All I want to say about Donkey Kong is this... I understand the frustration around such significant change, but to another token I don't think there's any harm in letting Donkey Kong do and be multiple things. This doesn't mean there can never ever be a traditional Donkey Kong Country again with lush, somber environments. Maybe when Retro has their hands a bit less full. Meanwhile, Mario explores many different styles, tones and genres and we celebrate when he's doing something fresh and new.

Definitely a vulnerable wound when it's a series that hasn't been getting much activity, I get it. But this is a character who will ALWAYS have something to do. I've always held to that through the constant doomerism and it's held true. For as rocky as a road Donkey Kong has been he will always come back, he is too valuable of a character. If you don't like this game, I'm sure there's another one down the line you'll like better. Sorry if you don't like the design.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I haven't seen the Treehouse footage yet, but there's screenshots where Cranky mentions Rambi by name, and there's even a little Rambi icon next to his name for emphasis.

Better look at Cranky looks like Rambi is here! pic.twitter.com/vuc5rC9Aa2

— ExpandDong(Donkey Kong Bananza AHHHH) (@ExpandDong15) April 3, 2025

View attachment 401111
I don't have enough knowledge on the DK series to judge, but it seems likely there's more DKC elements in there, we just haven't seen them yet

Not to mention the ostrich character from the trailer, who, while we don't know if they're actually an Expresso redesign or just an NPC, Expresso hasn't been seen since like the original DKC (outside of cameos like Expresso Street in New Donk City in Odyssey), so imo having an Ostrich NPC at all is kind of a deep pull in and of itself lol

 

[SharkLord]

All I want to say about Donkey Kong is this... I understand the frustration around such significant change, but to another token I don't think there's any harm in letting Donkey Kong do and be multiple things. This doesn't mean there can never ever be a traditional Donkey Kong Country again with lush, somber environments. Maybe when Retro has their hands a bit less full. Meanwhile, Mario explores many different styles, tones and genres and we celebrate when he's doing something fresh and new.

Definitely a vulnerable wound when it's a series that hasn't been getting much activity, I get it. But this is a character who will ALWAYS have something to do. I've always held to that through the constant doomerism and it's held true. For as rocky as a road Donkey Kong has been he will always come back, he is too valuable of a character. If you don't like this game, I'm sure there's another one down the line you'll like better. Sorry if you don't like the design.

I'm not really into Donkey Kong, but Jungle Beat was a game that involved him punching the crap out of everything, right? So much that it was the first game to get an E10+ rating. So I don't think it's too unprecedented to have a game where Donkey kong goes around breaking things

 

[Louie G.]

I'm not really into Donkey Kong, but Jungle Beat was a game that involved him punching the crap out of everything, right? So much that it was the first game to get an E10+ rating. So I don't think it's too unprecedented to have a game where Donkey kong goes around breaking things

Jungle Beat is what this has been reminding me of the most, that game barely had any of the extended DK cast in it too. Mind you that was kind of a weird transitional era for Donkey Kong, after Nintendo had parted ways with Rare, so I'm not sure if it's a particular sore spot for some fans who aren't very fond of this one either. Nevertheless I doubt anyone was pulling their hair out thinking they took Diddy out back because he didn't appear for one game lol.

What's happening in regards to Diddy and Co. right now is a huge overreaction anyway. We only have one single trailer for this game and we've already seen Cranky Kong. The NPC monkeys look exactly like Diddy Kong. We can't say anything definitively here. And they aren't erasing him from the series, even if for some reason he isn't here.... as mentioned before, even Luigi wasn't in Odyssey lol. Diddy will pop up again at some point if not just in Bananza outright.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

View attachment 401110

Hasn't been added YET.

Just because Gamecube NSO is out doesn't mean N64 NSO is over.

Supposedly PS4-ish.

I can appreciate the Simpsons joke, even if I wouldn't necessarily apply it to my own experience. It's more just about people fighting the wrong battle and getting into unneeded fights haha

I almost wonder if not rereleasing 64 and Melee right off the bat is just because Nintendo doesn't wanna have to pay Microsoft some licensing money just because the Motion-Sensor Bombs looked like the ones in GoldenEye in 64, and then in Melee you have that for the international release and Perfect Dark mines for the Japanese release lol

Like that's the only thing in either of those games I can think of that's technically third party, though it wasn't at the time. But then again I have to wonder why that'd be such a big deal considering they have full on Rare games like Banjo Kazooie and Tooie on NSO, and I doubt they'd have to pay much licensing for just a mine, at least for Perfect Dark's, since GoldenEye is a weird legal area, but again, GoldenEye is on NSO, so...

I think it's less about that and more of a "why do they need the same game but lesser" to Nintendo. They've never brought a Smash game forward, and I think there's a reason for it.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think it's less about that and more of a "why do they need the same game but lesser" to Nintendo. They've never brought a Smash game forward, and I think there's a reason for it.

Maybe? But they did put Smash 64 on Wii VC, they just haven't done it again since, so it's not like there's never been precedent for it. I guess with Ultimate it's not STRICTLY necessary to them, but it just seems a bit odd.

Also unrelated, but been having issues loading the boards tonight, looked at the current user list and uh, 150 guests??? Feel like that's not normal lmao

 

[DarthEnderX]

The Treehouse presentation of Street Fighter 6 says it still has rollback netcode.

So come on Nintendo! Bring that **** to Smash! It's the one thing Smash still sucks at!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah my innitial reaction towards Bananza wasn't all too optimistic either. It lacked the familiar cast I grew up with. And seemed like another Jungle Beat situation in every way imaginable. However, that has passed since the confirmation of Cranky and Rambi being there.

I do think we'll at least SEE Diddy, I just have doubts he'll be playable. I cannot imagine that as much, since this whole game is about using DK's strenght for destruction of everything. That's not something Diddy is capable of by any means.

I am also not too sure if K.Rool or the Kremlings are gonna be there. Likely not.

However... This is probably just one of the first DK games coming out. It probably will be the biggest one however. This is the 3D Mario team that's behind it. 3D platfomers outdo 2D ones everytime. Kirby's Forgotten Land is prime example of this. So this is both reassuring but also concerning.

Where is Diddy? Honestly... this was my biggest gripe with the Switch 2 Direct. It started with Mario Kart World. It takes direct inspiration from Diddy Kong Racing. It's clear as day. Hoovercrafts and planes and exploration? Yeah, that's Diddy Kong Racing. Now where's Diddy? And where's he in Bananza? If we cannot even get this one character who was even a mainstay in the so called revival game of DKC, that's just bad news.

Just gonna wait and see what's next I suppose.

 

[fogbadge]

Or maybe, just maybe, they're trying something new with the DK series

 

[dream1ng]

I don’t know if it’s just me and I don’t know if I can explain this well but what I loved about the original trilogy was partly the tranquility of it all. There’s an almost haunting atmosphere in a lot of the stages and the scenery and music really pulls you in and immerses you in a way that almost no game has done before or since. This new game gives me strong vibes of the Son of the Mask movie, which is one of my least favorite movies ever made. It just goes so over the top trying to be wacky and zany that it loses all the tranquility the series had previously. It’s not just that I don’t care for the actual design of the character, but the tone of the game has changed so much that it’s unrecognizable.

This is (probably) the same team that put this

this

and this

in the same game. A Mario game, no less.

They took a series where this was the music:

And then made this:

They ain't give a **** about tonal consistency, lol.

But to be fair, this isn't a Donkey Kong Country game, and it doesn't pretend to be. It doesn't use that label. This is EPD wanting to put its own mark on... what is technically their series, and pretty much only carrying over elements of the Rare games because people expect it. We've also yet to see... most of the game, including further Rare characters.

I figure it's like when a property gets a new movie that was a tonal shift from the previous one. Can you appreciate it for what it is - it might be good - or can you only see it as that one thing? Like, I think some superheroes work better with a serious tone, and other works better with a more light-hearted tone, but that doesn't mean the inverse can't be good.

Also, tbf, keep in mind even for the original games, they're not picking the "serene" tracks like Aquatic Ambience or Stickerbrush Symphony for short reveal trailers meant to convey the excitement and action-packed nature of the games. I don't expect Bananza's soundtrack to be on the same level as the DKC trilogy, but we've also heard so little of it, it would be fair to at least reserve judgment on the music.

And tbh... this might be a hot take, but Rare went a little bananas nuts with how many Kongs they made over the course of basically four games.

 

[toonito]

so Luke, Jamie, and Kimberly from SF6 are getting amiibos. interesting SF6's big 3 are getting them.

Now all we need is a Chun-Li amiibo to make the Ryu-Ken-Chun-Li => Luke-Jamie-Kimberly complete

cmon Sakurai

 

[Diddy Kong]

Or maybe, just maybe, they're trying something new with the DK series

Everyone done this before already. These exact developers with Jungle Beat. Retro Studios too.

I would've liked things to be more the same FOR ONCE.

 

[Gengar84]

This is (probably) the same team that put this

this

and this

in the same game. A Mario game, no less.

They took a series where this was the music:

And then made this:

They ain't give a **** about tonal consistency, lol.

But to be fair, this isn't a Donkey Kong Country game, and it doesn't pretend to be. It doesn't use that label. This is EPD wanting to put its own mark on... what is technically their series, and pretty much only carrying over elements of the Rare games because people expect it. We've also yet to see... most of the game, including further Rare characters.

I figure it's like when a property gets a new movie that was a tonal shift from the previous one. Can you appreciate it for what it is - it might be good - or can you only see it as that one thing? Like, I think some superheroes work better with a serious tone, and other works better with a more light-hearted tone, but that doesn't mean the inverse can't be good.

Also, tbf, keep in mind even for the original games, they're not picking the "serene" tracks like Aquatic Ambience or Stickerbrush Symphony for short reveal trailers meant to convey the excitement and action-packed nature of the games. I don't expect Bananza's soundtrack to be on the same level as the DKC trilogy, but we've also heard so little of it, it would be fair to at least reserve judgment on the music.

And tbh... this might be a hot take, but Rare went a little bananas nuts with how many Kongs they made over the course of basically four games.

I have said multiple times that the gameplay still looks like a lot of fun for what it is. So much so that I was still willing to pick it up despite my personal dislike of the new design and tone of the game. The problem is that what it is is completely different from what made me fall in love with the series. It feels like a total 180 from tranquil and atmospheric to in your face wacky and zany. I didn’t have any issues with Tropical Freeze. I missed the Kremlings but I was willing to give the new villains a chance and I still liked them too. Despite the lack of Kremlings, I felt the game did a great job at retaining the immersion of the previous games. So yeah, it’s not a total dealbreaker and I’ll still play the game if it looks fun but I no longer care for the character himself. It’s all a personal opinion but this current iteration of DK is probably my absolute least favorite video game character right now.

As for DK64, I’m honestly not a huge fan of that game either. I didn’t really like any of the new Kongs and I wasn’t a fan of what they did to Diddy Kong. Still, despite that I feel like it at least kept some of what I liked about the previous games. I also don’t like Conker very much. I appreciate that it was trying to be different and set itself apart from other platformers but the humor just didn’t land for me. So it’s not exactly a bias towards RARE. If you love the new design and direction of the series, that’s totally fine and I’m not going to call you wrong for having a different opinion. I’m just not personally into it.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With DK Bananza, it's still way too early to say how many DKC elements they've incorporated. Having Gnawty and Cranky Kong in it is still far more than anything Jungle Beat ever did. Honestly the fact that it's likely a younger EPD team working on this than the EAD group that developed JB, and that the Country games have endured with DK's legacy in the past 20 years leaves me pretty optimistic. This is a context far removed from the awkward period of Donkey Kong post Rare buyout and one where it feels like an earnest effort to acknowledge what came before it.

Moreover, a successful 3D DK game means strong success for the brand overall, which increases the chances of DK spin-offs and perhaps even more 2D games that could continue the Country series. Mario and Zelda have separate 3D and 2D lines, so Donkey Kong doing the same thing with EPD handling one and perhaps Retro doing the other feels entirely possible. With Bananza, a rising tide lifts all boats when it comes to DK so I'm all for it.

 

[fogbadge]

Everyone done this before already. These exact developers with Jungle Beat. Retro Studios too.

I would've liked things to be more the same FOR ONCE.

like those 5 DKC games?

 

[Gengar84]

With DK Bananza, it's still way too early to say how many DKC elements they've incorporated. Having Gnawty and Cranky Kong in it is still far more than anything Jungle Beat ever did. Honestly the fact that it's likely a younger EPD team working on this than the EAD group that developed JB, and that the Country games have endured with DK's legacy in the past 20 years leaves me pretty optimistic. This is a context far removed from the awkward period of Donkey Kong post Rare buyout and one where it feels like an earnest effort to acknowledge what came before it.

Moreover, a successful 3D DK game means strong success for the brand overall, which increases the chances of DK spin-offs and perhaps even more 2D games that could continue the Country series. Mario and Zelda have separate 3D and 2D lines, so Donkey Kong doing the same thing with EPD handling one and perhaps Retro doing the other feels entirely possible. With Bananza, a rising tide lifts all boats when it comes to DK so I'm all for it.

Yeah, I’m not really hoping for this game to fail or anything. I’m also completely fine with them trying something completely different like this even if I don’t personally care for it. I just hope that it isn’t a permanent change. While it’s nice to see classic characters like Cranky return and Rambi being referenced, the main things I loved about the series were the atmosphere, tone and music. If those classic characters no longer feel like themselves, they may as well be completely different characters in my eyes. Again, you’re not wrong to think differently and the game does look like a lot of fun, it’s just not what I was personally hoping to see. Doesn’t mean I won’t still give it a shot if things ever become affordable.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Dude, it's truly terrible from every angle.

First off, I feel like from a gameplay perspective DK has always been a precision platforming series (even going back to the arcade game). The one exception to this would be DK64 which is probably the most controversial and flawed game in the series. The core 5 DKC entries are probably the most hardcore platformers of any Nintendo franchise barring, like, Lost Levels. Bananza totally misses the mark on this front by...seemingly barely being a platformer.

Then, there's the characters. Visual redesign or not, the Kong family itself is a huge draw and something the fans of the series have identified deeply with. I don't think it's a stretch to say that 95% of fans, if asked, would want to see every Kong return in some form, and for us to meet even more new members of the family. This makes the absence of Diddy, Dixie, and the other Kongs feel completely tonedeaf to me in a way that's hard to overstate. Meeting more extended-family Kongs, seeing changes to the family such as Wrinkly dying and becoming a ghost between games - I understand that gameplay-wise you gotta do what makes sense; but these guys should at least have appearances as shopkeepers, recurring NPCs, tutorial-givers, something. Same goes for the Animal Buddies and the Kremlings. Tweaking their exact design or function is one thing - completely not even mentioning or featuring them is another.

These open-zone games are also not emphasizing the identity of the settings themselves very well. In the first wave of 3D platformers, the hub worlds made sense and had meaning without having to be huge. Peach's Castle, Gruntilda's Lair, DK Isles - these central hubs are fun to explore but are memorable because they're locations that open up over time and serve a narrative function. They directly reinforce the entire reason you're on your journey in a way that Sublevel 1,246 of an absurdist mineshaft will never be able to.

That's not even touching the music, the "what if you just... didn't even have to solve the puzzle?" type of hollow game design carried straight out of BotW / TotK, DK wearing denim overalls, Chunky erasure via DK being given the Hulk-esque strength powers, the absolutely hideous enemy and boss characters... it's a mess.

I dunno...

Donkey Kong Bonanza might be more akin to Donkey Kong 64, and you're right that it's kinda the most flawed entry, but it doesn't do the main thing holding that title back, which is the character swap (but only in specific locations) mechanic. In terms of format, it's also a more like Super Mario Odyssey than your typical N64 collectathon. I do understand the disappointment of it not being what you want from the series, but it's also not likely to be an objectively bad game because of it.

As was said before, the Kong family and Animal Buddies are actually present. The Kremlings might be as well since we have seen a crocodile themed enemy, but that's a little more iffy.

I feel like the open zone thing is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. There is no hub world, and the game isn't really built around one. This does put the onus on each level being something unique to be memorable, and while we haven't seen that quite yet, these are the same devs who made monochrome village, low poly soup world, soda water beach, and Bowser's very Japanese fortress. I have faith they'll be able to do something similar here. Also, these really aren't mineshafts. They're entirely different worlds. This makes it so that the setting makes 0 sense (how the heck is it broad daylight underneath a dark cave?), but it does allow each "sublevel" the chance to stand out from the next.

As for the puzzles...I dunno. There are probably going to be a lot of them that you can just circumvent due to the nature of being able to dig anywhere, but there's also a couple of puzzles that they've shown off that you can't, and some of those "but what if you didn't have to solve the puzzle" moments were technically solving the puzzle, just not in the way you're hinted toward, and sometimes you can miss out on stuff for doing it that way.

DK's overalls go away after the intro, but the reason he's wearing them there is mainly to hint toward the clothing customization. If you don't like the pants, maybe you'll like some of the other things he can wear, or maybe you'll want to not put anything on him because DK wearing clothes other than the tie is weird. Either way it'll be up to you.

Giving Donkey Kong huge feats of strength isn't Chunky Kong erasure. Chunky Kong not having appeared for 26 years is, and that's not Bonanza's fault for the most part. As far as their strength as a power goes, I feel like they overlapped on that from the jump, with Chunky being slightly stronger in DK 64, but that status was immediately usurped in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, and DK has since punched the moon out of orbit. If we're worried about Chunky losing his uniqueness, he kinda already has. Although who knows. If Chunky is in this game somewhere maybe he'll be used in a puzzle where you have to have him punch through concrete, or even something harder, which would put him back on top in terms of strength.