Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Idon]

Game aside, I just hope this gives em an excuse to replace DK side B with something more interesting

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Game aside, I just hope this gives em an excuse to replace DK side B with something more interesting

You don't understand. Donkey Kong headbanging is an important part of his moveset 'cuz he's a true metalhead! You can't mess with perfection.

 

[Diddy Kong]

like those 5 DKC games?

3. Retro did much the same as these guys do. There's certain stuff that they build off from, but it's not too much. I still missed the Rare tag teams, K.Rool and the Kremlings, underwater levels in the first game, DK Island even being shaped like it used to.

Sure these are Donkey Kong Country games but there's a clear distinction between Rare and Retro Studios their works.

It's not a bad thing. But I would have just preferred if there where more familiar elements from game to game. All other series do this, but it's denied all the time with Donkey Kong. To the point that having Diddy, Cranky and Rambi being the bare minimum being "worthy" enough to be brought back for a game called Donkey Kong Country Returns. In fact, these are the only elements being brought over. That's not really a lot...

 

[fogbadge]

3. Retro did much the same as these guys do. There's certain stuff that they build off from, but it's not too much. I still missed the Rare tag teams, K.Rool and the Kremlings, underwater levels in the first game, DK Island even being shaped like it used to.

Sure these are Donkey Kong Country games but there's a clear distinction between Rare and Retro Studios their works.

It's not a bad thing. But I would have just preferred if there where more familiar elements from game to game. All other series do this, but it's denied all the time with Donkey Kong. To the point that having Diddy, Cranky and Rambi being the bare minimum being "worthy" enough to be brought back for a game called Donkey Kong Country Returns. In fact, these are the only elements being brought over. That's not really a lot...

honestly it sounds to me it’s more about the characters more anything else. there were plenty of other returning elements for the old DKC games in returns not just characters

 

[Thegameandwatch]

After the secret project by Sakurai was revealed to not be Smash, what newer characters do you think has a higher or lower chance since its not known if its even in development.

If I had to guess Pokemon since there is a chance that Gen 9 is off the table. Maybe even Gen 10 if Smash 6 is a late release.

Game aside, I just hope this gives em an excuse to replace DK side B with something more interesting

It should have been a Barrel or even stuff from DK 64 which was relevant when Melee was being developed. Maybe they didn't want DK to have a projectile?

 

[fogbadge]

After the secret project by Sakurai was revealed to not be Smash, what newer characters do you think has a higher or lower chance since its not known if its even in development.

If I had to guess Pokemon since there is a chance that Gen 9 is off the table. Maybe even Gen 10 if Smash 6 is a late release.

well I’d say it’s a good thing for some of the recent revivals we’ve had the last couple years. and yes I certainly agree that this makes it far more likely to be a gen 10 Pokemon in smash

part of me thinks that nabbit and maybe toadette could be dark horse picks for next time. what with their prominent roles in recent mainline titles

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maybe they didn't want DK to have a projectile?

They don't. DK was at first Smash's closest thing to a traditional grappler, which means that his strengths are dummy strong buttons, grab capabilities, and high weight, but his weaknesses are being big, having a terrible up special, and most importantly, having trouble getting into his preferred range due to being slow. In subsequent entries, they've realized this trade-off isn't working for him, and have been making him faster and faster, so giving him a projectile is still a bad idea in this framework.

I think his frame data is still too much of a limiter on his ability to approach for a projectile to make him broken, especially if it's fairly limited, but from the dev's point of view it's likely both a terrible idea balance wise, and something that takes away from his intended power fantasy, which would make him less unique.

 

[Gengar84]

Instead of a barrel toss for his side special, what about a barrel launcher for his recovery? I know it’s another thing that every character could do in DKC and it wasn’t exclusively a DK thing but it could be fun. I don’t hate his current Spinning Kong recovery but it’s just another thing completely made up for Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

honestly it sounds to me it’s more about the characters more anything else. there were plenty of other returning elements for the old DKC games in returns not just characters

Elements yeah but characters are very important too. Rare put a huge emphasis on the supporting Kong cast. It's a family they build for Donkey Kong. And that's how it always felt and was supposed to be.

It's not that that's absent totally. Especially DK's bond with Diddy and Cranky remained ever strong. But it's a shame it couldn't be expanded upon more.

Characters aren't just "functions" here. That's why we're so attached to them.

And Diddy being playable is just my personal thing. He was deemed just as important as DK in Rare'a games. Maybe even more as he is the rising star of the series. However that part didn't quite survive the transition between developers. And it doesn't look like he will be included at all in a playable role in Bananza. The gameplay simply doesn't allow for it am afraid...

I'll take it for what it is. Am happy Donkey Kong gets this game. But I'm allowed to not like everything about it. I'll play it once I get a Switch 2. Maybe even buy it beforehand. Because a Switch 2 is expensive and my wife is due giving birth to my daughter in the beginning of June exactly so... yeah. Other priorities.

 

[Arcadenik]

Game aside, I just hope this gives em an excuse to replace DK side B with something more interesting

I would like Donkey Kong to get a new moveset.

B - wind up punch

Side+B - rides Rambi (ground) or headbutt (midair)

Up+B - launches from a barrel cannon

Down+B - throws barrels (ground) or ground pound (midair)

Final Smash - the stage becomes 25m like the arcade and 8-bit Donkey Kong throws 8-bit barrels that can one-hit KO opponents

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Instead of a barrel toss for his side special, what about a barrel launcher for his recovery? I know it’s another thing that every character could do in DKC and it wasn’t exclusively a DK thing but it could be fun. I don’t hate his current Spinning Kong recovery but it’s just another thing completely made up for Smash.

I'm fairly certain this also was never a thing because of the whole "heavies need bad recoveries" thing*. So instead they based his up special off of Dixie Kong of all things. He probably should get barrel cannon though.


*I'm 90% certain this design philosophy exists because of casual play. Heavies are difficult for casuals to deal with because they do an obscene amount of damage compared to other characters when both are just mashing, and are the hardest to knock off stage. They are ridiculously easy to edge guard sure, but edge guarding doesn't exist in causal play, so the only way you K.O. fighters is launching them far enough that they can't come back. Ergo, give them a bad recovery so they don't live forever against opponents that don't know what they're doing.

 

[Diddy Kong]

DK will be more of a lightning bruiser next Smash am sure. He moves around FAST in Bananza. And he'd probably be based around that game mostly. I think a Barrel Cannon recovery is long overdue. Likely will happen. And he's probably gonna punch more instead of slap. That's also a good thing.

Weird how he's gonna have a less serious looking design but probably a more serious looking fighting move set in Smash. Kinda ironic.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

DK will be more of a lightning bruiser next Smash am sure. He moves around FAST in Bananza. And he'd probably be based around that game mostly. I think a Barrel Cannon recovery is long overdue. Likely will happen. And he's probably gonna punch more instead of slap. That's also a good thing.

Weird how he's gonna have a less serious looking design but probably a more serious looking fighting move set in Smash. Kinda ironic.

I hope that they also don't give DK and Diddy Kong generic stock voice lines again but not counting on it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Donkey Kong headbanging is an important part of his moveset 'cuz he's a true metalhead!

Everyone knows Donkey Kong only listens to hardcore rap.

Sure these are Donkey Kong Country games but there's a clear distinction between Rare and Retro Studios their works.

Yeah. The Retro ones play better...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah. The Retro ones play better...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even if they're wrong.

 

[NintenRob]

So in fairness to the idea of Diddy Kong not being in Bananza

Luigi also missed out on a few 3D Mario games, wasn't even in Odyssey until a post launch update

 

[Diddy Kong]

So in fairness to the idea of Diddy Kong not being in Bananza

Luigi also missed out on a few 3D Mario games, wasn't even in Odyssey until a post launch update

He's probably there. Just not playable.

My autism is displeased.

I also don't really like the comparison to Luigi. Luigi has his own games, and the Mario series release way more steadily than DK ever did. Luigi has more playable roles than DK has games. I get your point, but I don't agree with it.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Luigi also missed out on a few 3D Mario games, wasn't even in Odyssey until a post launch update

3D World is also the only time where he was available from the start in a 3D Mario game when he was playable.

 

[Opossum]

Maybe they didn't want DK to have a projectile?

This is definitely it imo, and one I mostly agree with. It's why I definitely wouldn't give him the Coconut Gun (just make it an item imo). But I mostly agree with it in a traditional sense. I think in a very specific situation, it can be done well and not contradict his play style, and that's with a slow, rolling barrel projectile. It travels along the ground, meaning approaching opponents need to jump over it, limiting their approach. This allows DK to get in close and either grab them on their landing, or follow them up and hit them with his up air.

It's the one way I feel you can give DK a projectile without making him feel decidedly un-DK.

 

[AreJay25]

A potential big DK Bananza spoiler got leaked on Nintendo's Korean website.

Spoiler

Pauline seems to be in the game in some form.

I know Pauline is a bit of a... contentious topic when it comes to potential characters, but hey, she keeps showing up in stuff, including another big 3D platformer. It's worth keeping her in mind.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

It hould have been a Barrel or even stuff from DK 64 which was relevant when Melee was being developed. Maybe they didn't want DK to have a projectile?

Honestly I love Headbutt, headbutting your enemies so hard they end up in the ground is raw AF.

But this would probably be the best place to compromise on the Barrel situation, even if I think adding a barrel is unnecessary. Make him take out a barrel and slam it so hard on ur head that it buries you and I feel like that would be fine.

 

[Noipoi]

A potential big DK Bananza spoiler got leaked on Nintendo's Korean website.

Spoiler

Pauline seems to be in the game in some form.

I know Pauline is a bit of a... contentious topic when it comes to potential characters, but hey, she keeps showing up in stuff, including another big 3D platformer. It's worth keeping her in mind.

Well…she definitely resembles Pauline, but she looks much younger. Her proportions are smaller, she’s got freckles, no make up on…she looks like a kid.

Also her bracelet looks like the Odd Rock DK’s been hanging out with. Could they be connected in some way? The rock does seem to really like music…

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think in a very specific situation, it can be done well and not contradict his play style, and that's with a slow, rolling barrel projectile. It travels along the ground, meaning approaching opponents need to jump over it, limiting their approach. This allows DK to get in close and either grab them on their landing, or follow them up and hit them with his up air.

So what you're saying is give him Hammerfall.

...Wait no, that's the dash. What was the face plant...Slide Head? Why is Hammerfall the move where he slides across the ground and Slide Head the move where he face plants?

Well…she definitely resembles Pauline, but she looks much younger. Her proportions are smaller, she’s got freckles, no make up on…she looks like a kid.

Also her bracelet looks like the Odd Rock DK’s been hanging out with. Could they be connected in some way? The rock does seem to really like music…

Pauline is a rock child was not the reveal I was expecting today.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

A potential big DK Bananza spoiler got leaked on Nintendo's Korean website.

Spoiler

Pauline seems to be in the game in some form.

I know Pauline is a bit of a... contentious topic when it comes to potential characters, but hey, she keeps showing up in stuff, including another big 3D platformer. It's worth keeping her in mind.

Well, okay. I was doomposting about the game, but if they make Banaza a

Spoiler

game that genuinely tries to bridge the gap between Arcade era and DKC era

, then I'm actually all for it. I still wish it was more an actual platformer rather than an exploration game with light platforming, but this could be really cool in terms of the story.

 

[Louie G.]

Not sure what these leaks entail yet, but the case for you-know-who grows stronger by the day. I’m still a bit wary of Pauline for a number of reasons but if she’s going to continue to have this level of brand relevance, even across series, I think we need to have a serious conversation.

 

[Noipoi]

Not sure what these leaks entail yet, but the case for you-know-who grows stronger by the day. I’m still a bit wary of Pauline for a number of reasons but if she’s going to continue to have this level of brand relevance, even across series, I think we need to have a serious conversation.

It’s time to jump up in the air!
Use your neutral air!
Down smash and your cares will melt away!

 

[Ivander]

You thought Pauline in Smash would be all about that Mario Odyssey-based moveset, but surprise, she'll have this game for moveset design too. Hold onto your butts when she suddenly picks up the ground to throw at fighters.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Well…she definitely resembles Pauline, but she looks much younger. Her proportions are smaller, she’s got freckles, no make up on…she looks like a kid.

Also her bracelet looks like the Odd Rock DK’s been hanging out with. Could they be connected in some way? The rock does seem to really like music…

Spoiler

Clearly that’s Pauline Jr.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'll take a shot at a DK moveset remix:

Due to his new design being more compact, DK gets a slight size, weight, and range nerf. This is kind of assuming Smash doesn't redesign him to keep the more physically imposing aspect of his design like the Super Mario Bros. Movie kinda did, but eh. Donkey Kong's speed remains the same, but his overall mobility is increased in a couple of ways, most notably that his dash attack is jump cancelable. This doesn't keep your full momentum like it does in the Donkey Kong Country series (otherwise he'd be able to fling himself across the stage which doesn't really fit in with his design), but it does allow for movement mixups. Dash attack now rolls off ledges, but jump canceling it does not consume your double jump, even in the air, allowing him to go deeper with his edge guards or mixup his movement in general.

Spinning Kong has been removed for Barrel Blast: A barrel cannon appears around DK and launches him in the inputted direction. This doesn't launch him super far, especially compared to other instances of barrel cannons, but it has a fairly strong hitbox at the initial launch, and spikes if you angle it downward. It doesn't spike the whole way down, but the move does have a hitbox, and due to the nature of the move, DK will die if you use it over a pit and don't grab a ledge or something. Overall it's akin to a slightly less powerful, but slightly less limited version of Wing Blitz. Also I think this means he now has 5 spikes, which is amusing.

Headbutt has been removed and replaced with Barrel Slam. Donkey Kong slams a DK Barrel in front of him, then picks it up. In the air, the initial barell slam spikes. On the ground, if an opponent is right in front of Donkey Kong when he slams the barrel, they will be trapped inside for a second or two depending on their percent. As an item, this barrel is different from the normal item, as it never yields items, and drops to the ground quickly when thrown, rolling along the ground when it lands. If another character somehow gets ahold of this item, they won't be able to jump or attack while holding it, and their throw animation will be super laggy, but DK can move around unimpeded. The DK Barrel also does less damage and knockback, so it doesn't K.O. opponents like the regular item can. Enemies trapped inside a the barrel recieve less knockback than normal, but can't do anything about DK throwing them away and/or attacking them in this state.

One last tweak: Using Hand Slap on the same platform as a DK Barrel cause it to launch into the air, allowing it to hit on platforms above it as a mixup, but since DK has to comit to the Hand Slap to do this, it's probably not a super strong option outside of style points.

Spoiler: Things I thought about, but didn't include.

• Clap: It's not intuitive as a down special, and he technically already has this.
• Terrain surfing: I considered allowing him to surf on heavy items like crates and barrels, but this doesn't really do anything for his kit other than be funny. At worst, it could actually give him acess to a burst movement tool that he really shouldn't have for balance reasons.
• Ground slam: This could be a new version of aerial Hand Slap, but I technically already gave him a stall n' fall move so he really doesn't need this.

 

[Dukefire]

I think smash bros not being released this year and next year is good to allow the voice actor and design changes to be implemented.

As we all know so far, DK is getting his 80's look, Sakurai is working on his old project of Kirby Air Riders and Charles Martinet is no longer the voice for the Mario bros and Wario bros since he retired and now the president of Mario. What else will occur for Nintendo characters?

 

[fogbadge]

Not sure what these leaks entail yet, but the case for you-know-who grows stronger by the day. I’m still a bit wary of Pauline for a number of reasons but if she’s going to continue to have this level of brand relevance, even across series, I think we need to have a serious conversation.

I’d never have guessed that turning into a rock would be a potential move for her

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

Well…she definitely resembles Pauline, but she looks much younger. Her proportions are smaller, she’s got freckles, no make up on…she looks like a kid.

Also her bracelet looks like the Odd Rock DK’s been hanging out with. Could they be connected in some way? The rock does seem to really like music…

OMG, Baby Pauline is real!....or is it a Child Pauline or Kid Pauline?

 

[Noipoi]

I think smash bros not being released this year and next year is good to allow the voice actor and design changes to be implemented.

As we all know so far, DK is getting his 80's look, Sakurai is working on his old project of Kirby Air Riders and Charles Martinet is no longer the voice for the Mario bros and Wario bros since he retired and now the president of Mario. What else will occur for Nintendo characters?

-King Dedede could get his Club Penguin design
-Samus might be slightly tweaked to resemble her current appearances, along with a Dread costume
-Assuming we get Mega Greninja in Z-A they could update his final Smash
-Both Bowser and Steve will now be voiced by Jack Black

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

-Both Bowser and Steve will now be voiced by Jack Black

 

[Ivander]

Wait, after getting a closer look, I don't know if it's my computer screen or maybe even dirt or tiny rocks:
But I'm looking at the image of the Pauline-like and on her face, the Pauline-looking character has freckles, something that Pauline doesn't have.

Spoiler: Bigger image of the leaked image

Is it just my computer screen & whatnot or does anybody else see what I'm seeing?

 

[Noipoi]

Wait, after getting a closer look, I don't know if it's my computer screen or maybe even dirt or tiny rocks:
But I'm looking at the image of the Pauline-like and on her face, the Pauline-looking character has freckles, something that Pauline doesn't have.

Spoiler: Bigger image of the leaked image

Is it just my computer screen & whatnot or does anybody else see what I'm seeing?

No, you’re definitely right.

And it could be a childish feature meant to show that this is a younger version of the character. Or she could be an entirely new character.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Here's a thought: If there comes Smash Bros. Melee and Smash Bros. 64 on the Nintendo Switch Online thing, and both had online multiplayer modes, would that tide fans over until Smash 6 is announced and its first trailer comes up, in case we don't get a Switch 2 Edition of Smash Bros. Ultimate? I mean, both Smash Bros. 64 and Smash Bros. Melee were popular, especially Smash Bros,. Melee.

 

[Noipoi]

Here's a thought: If there comes Smash Bros. Melee and Smash Bros. 64 on the Nintendo Switch Online thing, and both had online multiplayer modes, would that tide fans over until Smash 6 is announced and its first trailer comes up, in case we don't get a Switch 2 Edition of Smash Bros. Ultimate? I mean, both Smash Bros. 64 and Smash Bros. Melee were popular, especially Smash Bros,. Melee.

Short term: Maybe
Long term: No way

If they dropped 64 or Melee on NSO, that might keep players occupied until a new Smash releases in say 2027. Especially Melee.

But if they waited until the 2030’s, people would be going rabid no matter what was on Switch Online. The people demand a new Smash hype cycle.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I’d wager the Mini-Pauline is a completely new character.

 

[Stratos]

I’d wager the Mini-Pauline is a completely new character.

Since Cranky Kong was the first Donkey Kong who, in his youth, had come face to face with Mario and had then kidnapped Pauline, then this character, "Mini-Pauline", cannot be Pauline, unless something supposedly happened and she became even younger, although I don't think so.