Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Stratos]

A character that would be surprising and strange at the same time for Super Smash Bros. series coming as newcomer, would be the Centipede from the video game series Centipede. Of course, this is just an opinion.

 

[kirbstr]

Thanks! ROB is a character that perplexes me a bit tbh, since I can see him both as lower priority among the 1st party unique fighters and also as mid-to-high priority, so I guess he could go either way, Ultimately I thought the characters here would be simply prioritized over him but I wouldn't be surprised if ROB ended up as a planned-but-cut character close to getting finished. Palutena though is one I kinda disagree. I understand that she's Sakurai's character basically and that she's popular but there are more popular, unique and/or iconic or bigger characters than her. I do think Sakurai will try not to cut her but in a roster where less than 50 vets return I think Sakurai would struggle a lot to justify keeping her over plenty of other characters, imo she is one of the characters most dependant on the returning roster of the next game. Jigglypuff, yeah is one of the characters that people love to see cut but at this point I'd be shocked if she ended up getting cut. Pokémon Trainer on the other hand being out-priorizied by Mewtwo is... interesting tbh. I think the former is far more unique and represents Pokémon perfectly, not to mention that in Ultimate they revamped the voice lines and added a full female counterpart, showing some actual care to the fighter. I'd bet on Pokemon Trainer over Mewtwo any time of the day personally. Konami losing their characters was moreso as I wrote above a Smash 4/Snake kind of situation where they are simply put not asked back because they can only bring so many characters back. Though I can totally see why Rayman is thought of as unlikely and he might not get in but even as someone as me who is rather harsh on the 3rd parties, I have to acknowledge that every Smash game adds at least 2-3 new 3rd party newcomers





I think that people are very biased towards certain characters and see them get cut far too easily than they actually are. And Jigglypuff is the biggest example to that. It seriously would be shocking to cut her and to assume that an OG Smash character getting cut would get no backlash is very naive. And also I have to say - it makes 0 sense to have every other Smash 64 character as untouchable and then have Jigglypuff as 'such an easy cut'. Whether people like it or not, she's much more of a lock than most other characters.

But thats kind of my point. Keeping characters like Jigglypuff around just for being OG is silly given the scenario of severe roster cuts. I'm not saying Puff is an "easy" cut, Pichu and Young Link are probably the only "easy" cuts on the entire Ult roster.

Also, every other 64 character has more going for them than Jigglypuff. Captain Falcon and Ness are the only other characters really worth considering cutting from the OG 12. Ness is worth keeping to represent the Mother series even if he's basically a Smash character atp. Same goes for Falcon, and if there were a character that got to stay around for just being iconic to smash everyone would agree on Falcon.

Also she has been nearly cut before, which puts her firmly in the camp of NOT being more of a lock than most other characters.

 

[Fa7oFuru]

What characters would you love to see in Smash even if they aren’t the most logical first or next choice for their respective series? I’ve got a ton of them but here’s a few I’d be personally hyped by series that aren’t the obvious choice:

Returning Series:

Super Mario: Goomba
Legend of Zelda: Impa (HW)
Pokémon: Gengar
Fire Emblem: Tharja or Lyn
Metroid: EMMI
Xenoblade: Nia
Kid Icarus: Medusa
Sonic: Knuckles
Final Fantasy: Princess Garnet
Street Fighter: Juri, Guile, or Vega
Kingdom Hearts: Xemnas or Ansem

New Series:

Astral Chain: Jena Anderson
Chrono Trigger: Magus
Mortal Kombat: Sub-Zero
WarCraft: Illidan
Tales: Alphen/Shionne or Velvet
Disgaea: Etna
River City: Misako (RCG)
Octopath Traveller: H’aanit

Returning Series:

Super Mario: Dry Bones (my most wanted ever is Geno so I'm excluding him for obvious reasons)

Legend of Zelda: Marin

Kirby: Magolor

Pokemon: Chandelure

Mother: Duster (used to be one of my most wanteds but I've pushed him down to wanting him as an Assist Trophy, If logic aside I think he'd be so fun)

Fire Emblem: Black Knight (non-echo, maybe semi-clone ala Marth to Roy but I think an FE villain would be awesome)

Kid Icarus: Phosphora (I just like her. She's cute)

Xenoblade: Malos (again, another villain for a franchise not having one already. I think it would be super cool logical inclusions aside and Malos is a fun character)

Sonic: Amy Rose (again she's cute. My most wanted from Sonic is Shadow who makes a lot of logical sense so I'm excluding him)

Persona: Aigis

Mega Man: Tron Bonne (I love playing as her in MvC and I think a mech fighter is a sorely missed trope in Smash despite the many fighters we already have. Bowser Jr. kind of fills this role but not to a satisfying extent imo)

Street Fighter: Sakura or Rashid

TEKKEN: Reina Mishima

Final Fantasy: Kefka Palazzo or Y'shtola

Fatal Fury: Geese Howard (again, villain. Not only a villain but one of the most bad*** and ruthlessly vile antagonists in Fighting Games. Such a cool character, Geese is just That Guy.)


New Franchises:

Rhythm Heaven: Rhythm Reporter
Nintendo Retro: Sukapon
Tales Of Series: Velvet Crowe
Trails Series: Kevin Graham
UNDERTALE: Papyrus (preferably as a duo w/Sans ofc)
When They Cry: Furudo Erika

 

[MBRedboy31]

Anyone who wants to cut Puff needs to think of a new character that fits in its archetype (super high aerial horizontal mobility, incredibly floaty, extremely poor ground mobility, super glass cannon)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Anyone who wants to cut Puff needs to think of a new character that fits in its archetype (super high aerial horizontal mobility, incredibly floaty, extremely poor ground mobility, super glass cannon)

Wario.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Wario.

Wario is the 14th heaviest character in Ultimate (tied with 4 other characters.)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Anyone who wants to cut Puff needs to think of a new character that fits in its archetype (super high aerial horizontal mobility, incredibly floaty, extremely poor ground mobility, super glass cannon)

but let's face it most people who want Jigglypuff gone aren't wanting another mon like it in its place

 

[Gengar84]

It’s not so much wanting Jigglypuff gone as it is thinking that it might not always be a priority just because it was in the first Smash game. My brother’s been a Jigglypuff main since Smash 64 so I’d love to keep her but she does seem like the least promoted Pokemon on the roster.

The closest characters I can think of on the current roster are Kirby, Metaknight, and Sora but none of them quite fit all those categories. One of my favorite Pokemon is Orbeetle. I wonder if it would fit. Kind of goes against its base stats in Pokemon but I could see it for Smash. Not that Orbeetle has any chance.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Wario is the 14th heaviest character in Ultimate (tied with 4 other characters.)

Buuut, he also has high air mobility, is really floaty, has stubby hitboxes, does chunky damage, and has a skillshot move that just kills you!

Basically the same character.

What? Still not satisfied? Aight I gotchu:

Spoiler

but let's face it most people who want Jigglypuff gone aren't wanting another mon like it in its place

Yeah honestly I'd wager most competitive players would rather there be 0 characters with Jigglypuff's playstyle due to its extreme focus on evasion.

Personally, I'd rather they just bring Jigglypuff back than replace it.

 

[Gengar84]

Okay, I got one that will make everyone happy. What about Mallow from Super Mario RPG? I heard people really want a character from that game.

 

[ZagarTulip]

I hope we get a new Metroid character in Smash 6, they tend to have cool designs

 

[Gengar84]

I hope we get a new Metroid character in Smash 6, they tend to have cool designs

Same. I’m actually trying to play through Super Metroid for the first time on the Switch Online. I rented it a couple times when I was a kid but I always got completely lost early on. I think I’ll try the Prime 1 remake after that.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

What? Still not satisfied? Aight I gotchu:

Spoiler

Jigglypuff haters watching her get cut and replaced with a literally almost identical mon:

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Just replace Jigglypuff with Scream Tail. :V

 

[Thegameandwatch]

My gripes mostly come from roster building. Turning this:

()

Into something more modest without making it just Gen 1 Pokémon and the newcomer is a huge headache, and Jigglypuff doesn't help at all.

The fact that some also value for popularity reasons (Lucario) or for gameplay reasons (Incineroar)

Results in Greninja being the non-Gen 1 Pokemon to appear the most in roster builders if it’s not the stereotypical Gen 1 + New.

Just replace Jigglypuff with Scream Tail. :V

Probably one of the best candidates for an echo fighter.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hop off the GOAT; he threw the Actual Sun into the ocean to save his family and I will hear no disrespect.

We needed that sun!

A character that would be surprising and strange at the same time for Super Smash Bros. series coming as newcomer, would be the Centipede from the video game series Centipede. Of course, this is just an opinion.

There's no way the Atari rep is Centipede instead of Bentley Bear.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

But thats kind of my point. Keeping characters like Jigglypuff around just for being OG is silly given the scenario of severe roster cuts. I'm not saying Puff is an "easy" cut, Pichu and Young Link are probably the only "easy" cuts on the entire Ult roster.

Also, every other 64 character has more going for them than Jigglypuff. Captain Falcon and Ness are the only other characters really worth considering cutting from the OG 12. Ness is worth keeping to represent the Mother series even if he's basically a Smash character atp. Same goes for Falcon, and if there were a character that got to stay around for just being iconic to smash everyone would agree on Falcon.

Also she has been nearly cut before, which puts her firmly in the camp of NOT being more of a lock than most other characters.

I feel like Puff is in a weird camp where she sorta jumps the line when development time gets low since she's easy to make and never really changes.

I will continue to point at her outprioritizing Mewtwo in two games (technically three if we include Mewtwo being scrapped in the original) to mean that clearly the dev team feels like there's something worth keeping there, even if it is just Jigglypuff being the token joke character that's easy to make.

So like yes she's low priority and yes there's always that chance, but if she's getting put in half the games before an iconic super popular Pokemon like Mewtwo is, clearly there's something at least Sakurai sees worth in in some regard.

 

[Oracle Link]

But I would argue Marx and Magolor are similarly popular - both have a respectable amount of merchandise,

Anyway, I actually agree with kirbstr about wanting updates to Meta Knight. I'm not sure specifically what I would suggest right now, but he's been given quite a lot more to do in the main series since Brawl and his moveset is a little barebones / sauceless right now.

Do i hear MERCHANDISE?

These are all my Kirby Plushies (magolor and Marx Included) a big contribiuting factor for a plush in my collection is if they are or are related to bosses/enemies so that kirby can fight them!
Thats why marx was one of the first!
(I could almost count myself lucky that there arent more zelda figures or ill run out of space!)
One of them is a custom kirby that i got as a surprise! (Eventhobi already had multiple kirbys atcthat point!)

Also on that meta knight point!
I think if meta knight just worked, felt and sounded likevin brawl he would feel much stronger even if he isnt actually stronger!
(Like is there a reason his hits have to sound whimpy?)

 

[Watuna4343]

But thats kind of my point. Keeping characters like Jigglypuff around just for being OG is silly given the scenario of severe roster cuts. I'm not saying Puff is an "easy" cut, Pichu and Young Link are probably the only "easy" cuts on the entire Ult roster.

Also, every other 64 character has more going for them than Jigglypuff. Captain Falcon and Ness are the only other characters really worth considering cutting from the OG 12. Ness is worth keeping to represent the Mother series even if he's basically a Smash character atp. Same goes for Falcon, and if there were a character that got to stay around for just being iconic to smash everyone would agree on Falcon.

Also she has been nearly cut before, which puts her firmly in the camp of NOT being more of a lock than most other characters.

That she was almost cut in Brawl holds little weight in 2025 heading into Smash 6. Ness was almost cut in Melee and you seem OK with keeping him. And besides, the point was exactly that Jigglypuff is as much of a Smash character as Fox, Ness and Captain Falcon and they also are part of the OG 12 so there is definitely some double standard you raise in the OG 12 argument not applying specifically to Jigglypuff and yet not to any other Smash 64 character that is known almost exclusively from Smash. Like if there are severe cuts and the 'OG 12' argument is not strong enough to keep someone, it's not just Jigglypuff who will get cut and someone like Captain Falcon and Ness is getting the boot along with her. That's the whole point I'm trying to make

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Like if there are severe cuts and the 'OG 12' argument is not strong enough to keep someone, it's not just Jigglypuff who will get cut and someone like Captain Falcon and Ness is getting the boot along with her. That's the whole point I'm trying to make

And you'd be wrong because Ness and Captain Falcon carry whole franchises with them and Jigglypuff is just one of many Pokémon that could be purged on a moments notice.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I don't mind either way if Jigglypuff stays or goes. It was a pretty fun inclusion in hindsight, but there's many more iconic Pokemon than it now, especially from Gen 1.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

And you'd be wrong because Ness and Captain Falcon carry whole franchises with them and Jigglypuff is just one of many Pokémon that could be purged on a moments notice.

Yeah like, I don't think Puff is getting cut, but Ness and Falcon carry a lot more with them than Puff does, especially since I feel like Lucas getting cut (again, I guess I should add) is extremely likely since he's the only character on the roster now that's still Japan-exclusive I'm pretty sure lol

 

[fogbadge]

And you'd be wrong because Ness and Captain Falcon carry whole franchises with them and Jigglypuff is just one of many Pokémon that could be purged on a moments notice.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Temporarily unblocking to say that if we're at a point we're talking about cutting Ness, Lucas is already gone and out of the equation.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

The issue with speculating roster cuts is that whoever gets cut needs to be less popular than everyone you add as newcomers.

As such, it's easy to speculate cuts to 3rd party characters because "muh licensing", when that has yet to ever be an issue for the Smash team or Nintendo.

If the next smash game does make big cuts, I'd hope they stop prioritizing "series vets" that are only really relevant to Smash and nobody is banging the table to keep.

Like, it's time for Jigglypuff to go. I'd rather keep every pokemon on the roster over it. Same with ZSS and Sheik. Cool concepts for what they were originally designed for, but would people really miss them? Falco too. I think before Ultimate cutting Falco would sound like blasphemy, but nowadays he's more known for being an obnoxious cutscene combo character than anything.

Well everybody that gets added to Smash picks up some degree of popularity. Even if they weren't popular before, they'll pick up fans by getting played.

That said, future newcomers will also be picking up popularity. So even if some fans are upset about cuts, other fans will become pleased by who they now get to play. And this might also include characters who weren't popular before being a newcomer.

Ultimately, it might not be hard to balance who goes in and who goes out.

 

[Louie G.]

The Ness disrespect frustrates me. The Mother series is well cemented into Smash's identity and unlikely to be carved out entirely unless we see a massive series overhaul. Ness is one of the more foundational zoner / mage archetypes in the game as well as consistently one of the most popular characters to play across both casual and competitive bases. Removing him would be egregious for all of these reasons. Whereas keeping or removing Jigglypuff probably comes down to late development as usual. I think she probably sticks around but it will likely always come down to that.

Also, cutting Captain Falcon is a ridiculous conversation that deserves no real credibility. Even if he wasn't one of the most iconic and popular characters in the series, F-Zero 99 just came out two years ago. GX being one of the starter NSO titles is significant too. F-Zero arguably has more going on right now than even Star Fox does. And that's not an invitation to start contemplating Fox's removal either.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

especially since I feel like Lucas getting cut (again, I guess I should add) is extremely likely since he's the only character on the roster now that's still Japan-exclusive I'm pretty sure lol

Roy is the only other character whose game is Japanese exclusive if Melee doesn’t count but has appeared in Fire Emblem games released in the west such as Blazing Blade’s epilogue (supposedly not in Europe), Heroes and Engage.

 

[Stratos]

The first 12 are iconic, so it would be hard to think that any of them would be cut. Although I consider Jigglypuff the most likely to be cut, but since it is one of the original 12 I would say it is impossible.

 

[fogbadge]

Temporarily unblocking to say that if we're at a point we're talking about cutting Ness, Lucas is already gone and out of the equation.

I didn’t know you had me blocked

 

[Watuna4343]

And you'd be wrong because Ness and Captain Falcon carry whole franchises with them and Jigglypuff is just one of many Pokémon that could be purged on a moments notice.

Never said that wasn't the case but even so, we are talking about situations where the cuts are harsh. And in harsh conditions, it's absolutely not out of the realm of possibility for whole franchises that are not exactly top priority to get axed (in fact it's rather possible). But in case the cuts aren't as dire of course they're not going to go but neither is Jigglypuff. As mentioned before ease of development is on her side and if being a Smash staple would help the likes of Ness and Captain Falcon, I don't see why it wouldn't help her either (again, we are talking about harsh cuts vs non-harsh cuts).

 

[SharkLord]

I think we've had this discussion before - The conclusion was that Jigglypuff seems to be a low-priority fighter, but also light on resources, since she has a similar body type to Kirby and fairly simply motions. If push comes to shove I think she's on the table for being cut, but I can also see her being slipped in if Sakurai realizes they have enough resources left.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

The only way I could see Ness and Captain Falcon get cut is if for some reason they decide to cut down the Nintendo characters to around 30.

Even then I could still see them remaining, but no way do I see Jigglypuff remaining in that scenario.

 

[Kirbeh]

The solution is to disregard the entire series history and decide the roster based on sales.

Cut all the retro characters, surprise characters, secondary characters and any characters/franchise that hasn't been featured in/gotten a new game within the past 2-3 years. All newcomers must come from an upcoming release that's expected to sell well, so no new franchises. Any franchise below 50mil units sold does not qualify.

The result? The perfect investor roster.
The fans will love it. Trust me

 

[Tman_03]

Real quick. Hey, Imma back, and i wanna know a good "consensus" for narrowing the roster to 30. Specifically so I can make a Super Smash Brothers themed EDH deck for Magic the Gathering!

 

[HyperSomari64]

The solution is to disregard the entire series history and decide the roster based on sales.

Cut all the retro characters, surprise characters, secondary characters and any characters/franchise that hasn't been featured in/gotten a new game within the past 2-3 years. All newcomers must come from an upcoming release that's expected to sell well, so no new franchises. Any franchise below 50mil units sold does not qualify.

The result? The perfect investor roster.
The fans will love it. Trust me

The mural on Nintendo Museum let you know which franchises will be represented with fighters, just see the 3x3 squares. (Maybe Samus or DK [interchangeable] can have the 8th slot in this "the New 8" scenario, while one of the two, Fox, Alear and Noah will be the four unlockables)

 

[NintenRob]

Of all the times to cut Jigglypuff, it feels like the wrong time now. She's more relevant to the games then she has ever been. She's intended to be the first terrastilized Pokemon you encounter in Scarlet and Violet, plus Scream Tail exists

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

So like yes she's low priority and yes there's always that chance, but if she's getting put in half the games before an iconic super popular Pokemon like Mewtwo is, clearly there's something at least Sakurai sees worth in in some regard.

Also there's more Pokemon present that weren't around in Brawl who she could feasibly be higher priority than, so by default she probably wouldn't have to wait as long to get developed (though I still expect her to be low priority); I could see her surviving simply from that

Granted I don't think Mewtwo is one of those anymore; he's not out of the woods but his proven popularity is probably gonna be enough to definitively tilt the needle in his favor against Puff.

Never said that wasn't the case but even so, we are talking about situations where the cuts are harsh. And in harsh conditions, it's absolutely not out of the realm of possibility for whole franchises that are not exactly top priority to get axed (in fact it's rather possible). But in case the cuts aren't as dire of course they're not going to go but neither is Jigglypuff. As mentioned before ease of development is on her side and if being a Smash staple would help the likes of Ness and Captain Falcon, I don't see why it wouldn't help her either (again, we are talking about harsh cuts vs non-harsh cuts).

I guess it'd come down to how you define "harsh cuts"; I think there would have to be less than 30 first party veterans for Ness, Falcon, and other similar characters to be in danger, and for Ms. Pufferton, it's more like... under 50-55, as someone likely in the middle at best for Pokemon since I can't bias my way into putting her above Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario or Greninja. And I feel 50-55 first party vets is much more plausible than under 30.

 

[NintenRob]

Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario or Greninja

Above all else, I do these are Pokemons most essential four. Things would have to be really egregious for any of them to be cut.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

since I can't bias my way into putting her above Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario or Greninja.

Maybe you can't, but I definitely can.

Time for Lucario to step aside and let a real fighter stay in the spotlight while he trains himself to be an actually fun character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Ness disrespect frustrates me. The Mother series is well cemented into Smash's identity and unlikely to be carved out entirely unless we see a massive series overhaul. Ness is one of the more foundational zoner / mage archetypes in the game as well as consistently one of the most popular characters to play across both casual and competitive bases. Removing him would be egregious for all of these reasons. Whereas keeping or removing Jigglypuff probably comes down to late development as usual. I think she probably sticks around but it will likely always come down to that.

Also, cutting Captain Falcon is a ridiculous conversation that deserves no real credibility. Even if he wasn't one of the most iconic and popular characters in the series, F-Zero 99 just came out two years ago. GX being one of the starter NSO titles is significant too. F-Zero arguably has more going on right now than even Star Fox does. And that's not an invitation to start contemplating Fox's removal either.

This is kind of a weird argument chain because it wasn't initially talking about Ness or Captain Falcon. I brought them up as legacy picks in a more general conversation about them. Then it kinda devolved into weather or not Ness and Captain Falcon should be cut based on what inclusion criteria we're supposed to be using...I dunno.

EDIT: I suppose that's SmashBoards for you. A big 'ol game of argument telephone. lol