Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Nabbitfan730]

And you'd be wrong because Ness and Captain Falcon carry whole franchises with them and Jigglypuff is just one of many Pokémon that could be purged on a moments notice.

Franchises that hold no relevance today especially in comparison to Pokemon. If the OG 12 somehow dismantled, in no world is the Pokemon getting cut and Ness and Falcon of all characters are staying. They already made the mistake with Mewtwo. No longer.

Fox, Falcon, Ness and Puff are all gone which would hurt me honestly. I don't like talks of OG 12 getting cut. Those characters are the essential bedrock of Nintendo history and them getting touched means a special part of Smash being lost along the way. The All-Star

You could cut them and make a new OG 12 with Inkling, Min Min, Isabelle and Marth but it wouldn't feel the same.

I'm pretty sure if Puff was on the low-priority chopping block everyone said she was, I'm pretty sure she would've been cut already. Smash 4 was perfect opportunity

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Franchises that hold no relevance today especially in comparison to Pokemon. If the OG 12 somehow dismantled, in no world is the Pokemon getting cut and Ness and Falcon of all characters are staying. They already made the mistake with Mewtwo. No longer.

So when something goes against your argument it’s a “mistake” that won’t happen again, and you’re sure it won’t happen again, because…..?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Real quick. Hey, Imma back, and i wanna know a good "consensus" for narrowing the roster to 30. Specifically so I can make a Super Smash Brothers themed EDH deck for Magic the Gathering!

One Fighter per series!

Trim the newcomers and three others from this:

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Franchises that hold no relevance today especially in comparison to Pokemon. If the OG 12 somehow dismantled, in no world is the Pokemon getting cut and Ness and Falcon of all characters are staying. They already made the mistake with Mewtwo. No longer.

I feel like this is pretty disingenuous. F-Zero just got a new installment in the last couple of years and Earthbound is so, SO legendary that the popularity RPGs in that vain has skyrocketed, Undertale especially but not exclusively

 

[smashkirby]

Would AnYone give a **** about Muddy Mole?

Insanely violent coughing

So, about ol' Muddy...

How would everyone feel about Dillon as a weird niche surprise character? I’ve never played his games but I always thought his design was pretty neat and he could make for a fun Smash character. He’s not very well known at all but I think it’s fun to bring in characters like that every now and then just to keep things fresh.

Personally, I'd be into the idea. What's more, I've had similar thoughts myself regarding characters like Rusty Slugger/Inuji Darumeshi, Mallo, Tempo, Sakura Samurai, and Kageshina Kurabe. Just saying, giving the eShop some more playable representation would be pretty neat.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

How would everyone feel about Dillon as a weird niche surprise character? I’ve never played his games but I always thought his design was pretty neat and he could make for a fun Smash character. He’s not very well known at all but I think it’s fun to bring in characters like that every now and then just to keep things fresh.

I would actually love to see Dillion as a playable character in Smash. I know he may not be the most importantly character out there, but I always wanted him playable since before Smash 4.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Real quick. Hey, Imma back, and i wanna know a good "consensus" for narrowing the roster to 30. Specifically so I can make a Super Smash Brothers themed EDH deck for Magic the Gathering!

If we are talking about narrowing down the roster to 30 veterans then I think these are the characters least likely to get cut.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If we are talking about narrowing down the roster to 30 veterans then I think these are the characters least likely to get cut.

I doubt they'd bother to keep Sonic as the ONLY 3P character. They'd either keep several, or cut them all.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I doubt they'd bother to keep Sonic as the ONLY 3P character. They'd either keep several, or cut them all.

At least Megaman would stay along with him.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I doubt they'd bother to keep Sonic as the ONLY 3P character. They'd either keep several, or cut them all.

Yes, I never meant to suggest otherwise.

These are just the 30 characters I think are the least likely to get cut in general, not the 30 characters I think Nintendo would pick if they decided to only bring back 30 characters (which I think is highly improbable).

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Wonder if this had been talked about before - but what of your personally wanted newcomers or characters have you come to feel like are just not in the cards realistically anymore, or had their chances gone since past games?

Currently to me, I've long come to feel the characters I've been wanting the most since Melee and Brawl just have had no chance in Smash anymore due becoming too codified on the NPC-roles they're given, or passed over due myriad of following factors.

1 - Dixie Kong = Lack of Interest on Moveset Potential, and Apathy on DK Series

Despite being explored as possibly being a duo character with Diddy before getting cut, Sakurai hasn't ever bothered revisiting Dixie ever since, making me personally believe he views her with having not much interesting to go off on her own (even with her ponytail, it's just isn't enough or even noteworthy for him.)

On that end, there's also me observing how Sakurai personally hadn't been interested on exploring DK-series series since Brawl to give it more characters, if going by how it took us the Smash Ballot to give us K.Rool - whilst glossing over potentials of Cranky Kong as a new unexpected retro rep that'd also allow the OG Donkey Kong of arcade-era be on the roster, and even Funky Kong as a possible echo/semiclone.

2 - Toad (Captain or Reg.) = No Inherent Moveset Potential => Codified NPC for Peach's Special Move since Melee, possibly for foreseaable future.

As someone wanting Toad since Melee-days, I feel like Sakurai has just never seen Toad beyond being an easily frightened little guy representing many interchangeable ones of his kind as we see him in first stage of Melee's Adventure Mode.

Even past Captain Toad getting his own game, the playable appearances of Toads in NSMB-games, his solo playable roles in SMB2, SM 3D World and probably most interesting of all, Wario's Woods - none of them has made Sakurai to consider him again for a fighter status, making it easy for him to move on working on Rosalina, Bowser Jr and eventually Piranha Plant over him. The very last one has definitely told me enough that Toad's just not inherently interesting character for him to explore, possibly since Melee-days. Maybe Toad's just that kinda everyguy NPC and thus, this is the best he'll get, especially with Captain Toad's train having gone by a decade ago now?

Ultimate making Toad be more active in Peach's moveset seems to make me wonder should I wish for Toad to grow more active in Peach's moveset enough to make them to a duo-character, but that itself feels pretty unlikely due being parasitic (no pun intended).


3 - Takamaru = Too Obscure To Be Playable. (Same for Starfy, Lip and Isaac)


Pretty self-explanatory as Sakurai had said so himself about Takamaru. But to me, it's bit saddening as it feels like this is what the characters like Takamaru, remain as, possibly for as long as the series keeps on going - unless he becomes the new "retro rep" in Smash 6 (which by that point, would maybe feel too trite for Sakurai to do after Piranha Plant letting him experiment in very new ways while sticking on a prime IP)

The only way for them to get possibly out this status would be to receive a big revival or reboot enough to make the series go out of the C-List tier to B-List, enough to stand in level of Fire Emblem or Xenoblade for example. To quote a certain ogre: "Like that's ever going to happen".

(Little Mac meanwhile had both luxury of a recently new game and a moveset potential that just happened to interest Sakurai at the time based on Mac's Assist Trophy-based moves in Brawl.)

I've kinda come to feel relatively accepting and ambivalent on too-obscure series or protagonists to have a playable spot in Smash in general, especially those very much more active in Japan-only territory p but I can't help bringing up above point especially, as it basically makes obscurities just mere "museum exhibits" in Smash in the long run, and make them lose much intrigue after people becoming mainly familiar of them on being Smash... and nothing else.


____

I kinda do hope to see more character reworks of existing ones I already like to play as, but it's kinda clear to me how I'm not that excited for next Smash outside of it being a possible rebooted entry, which could mean a new, refreshed take on things we haven't seen a while or could use reworks, especially older characters dating way back to 64's Smash.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Wonder if this had been talked about before - but what of your personally wanted newcomers or characters have you come to feel like are just not in the cards realistically anymore, or had their chances gone since past games?

The biggest one for me is Waluigi, but that would imply he had a "realistic chance" before and not anymore as opposed to the simple fact he never had one to begin with and I had blind hope until after Smash For.

Shadow would be another example after Ultimate except the whole Year of Shadow and what came with it could very well be a renewed spark of possibility, so cautiously hoping next time.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Do any of you have most wanted Third Party villains? (In the same vein as Sephiroth) Personally mine is Psaro Banesword who i’ve talked about before.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Wonder if this had been talked about before - but what of your personally wanted newcomers or characters have you come to feel like are just not in the cards realistically anymore, or had their chances gone since past games?

Currently to me, I've long come to feel the characters I've been wanting the most since Melee and Brawl just have had no chance in Smash anymore due becoming too codified on the NPC-roles they're given, or passed over due myriad of following factors.

1 - Dixie Kong = Lack of Interest on Moveset Potential, and Apathy on DK Series

Despite being explored as possibly being a duo character with Diddy before getting cut, Sakurai hasn't ever bothered revisiting Dixie ever since, making me personally believe he views her with having not much interesting to go off on her own (even with her ponytail, it's just isn't enough or even noteworthy for him.)

On that end, there's also me observing how Sakurai personally hadn't been interested on exploring DK-series series since Brawl to give it more characters, if going by how it took us the Smash Ballot to give us K.Rool - whilst glossing over potentials of Cranky Kong as a new unexpected retro rep that'd also allow the OG Donkey Kong of arcade-era be on the roster, and even Funky Kong as a possible echo/semiclone.

2 - Toad (Captain or Reg.) = No Inherent Moveset Potential => Codified NPC for Peach's Special Move since Melee, possibly for foreseaable future.

As someone wanting Toad since Melee-days, I feel like Sakurai has just never seen Toad beyond being an easily frightened little guy representing many interchangeable ones of his kind as we see him in first stage of Melee's Adventure Mode.

Even past Captain Toad getting his own game, the playable appearances of Toads in NSMB-games, his solo playable roles in SMB2, SM 3D World and probably most interesting of all, Wario's Woods - none of them has made Sakurai to consider him again for a fighter status, making it easy for him to move on working on Rosalina, Bowser Jr and eventually Piranha Plant over him. The very last one has definitely told me enough that Toad's just not inherently interesting character for him to explore, possibly since Melee-days. Maybe Toad's just that kinda everyguy NPC and thus, this is the best he'll get, especially with Captain Toad's train having gone by a decade ago now?

Ultimate making Toad be more active in Peach's moveset seems to make me wonder should I wish for Toad to grow more active in Peach's moveset enough to make them to a duo-character, but that itself feels pretty unlikely due being parasitic (no pun intended).


3 - Takamaru = Too Obscure To Be Playable. (Same for Starfy, Lip and Isaac)


Pretty self-explanatory as Sakurai had said so himself about Takamaru. But to me, it's bit saddening as it feels like this is what the characters like Takamaru, remain as, possibly for as long as the series keeps on going - unless he becomes the new "retro rep" in Smash 6 (which by that point, would maybe feel too trite for Sakurai to do after Piranha Plant letting him experiment in very new ways while sticking on a prime IP)

The only way for them to get possibly out this status would be to receive a big revival or reboot enough to make the series go out of the C-List tier to B-List, enough to stand in level of Fire Emblem or Xenoblade for example. To quote a certain ogre: "Like that's ever going to happen".

(Little Mac meanwhile had both luxury of a recently new game and a moveset potential that just happened to interest Sakurai at the time based on Mac's Assist Trophy-based moves in Brawl.)

I've kinda come to feel relatively accepting and ambivalent on too-obscure series or protagonists to have a playable spot in Smash in general, especially those very much more active in Japan-only territory p but I can't help bringing up above point especially, as it basically makes obscurities just mere "museum exhibits" in Smash in the long run, and make them lose much intrigue after people becoming mainly familiar of them on being Smash... and nothing else.


____

I kinda do hope to see more character reworks of existing ones I already like to play as, but it's kinda clear to me how I'm not that excited for next Smash outside of it being a possible rebooted entry, which could mean a new, refreshed take on things we haven't seen a while or could use reworks, especially older characters dating way back to 64's Smash.

I feel like Dixie not making it in yet makes sense. I have a lot to say about why, so I’ll put it in a spoiler tab.

Spoiler

Until Tropical Freeze Dixie didn’t have a notable role since DKC3, and the roster for Smash for was decided before characters from Tropical Freeze could have been considered. Her lack of relevance was probably a nail in the coffin for her at the time.

As for Ultimate, the newcomer selection was limited, with more popular requests like King K. Rool being prioritized, and two unique DK characters was probably not in the cards. Some think she could have been added as an echo fighter, but I and others doubt Sakurai would want to go that direction with her (I’d get into why, but that would take too long ).

With Dixie Kong being used a lot more prominently in recent years, with her LEGO set, appearing in the Mario movie, her inclusion in Super Nintendo World, and appearing on merchandise like the new DK calendar, her chances seem to be the best they’ve ever been.

I think she’d be a Diddy semi clone, but I could also see them revisiting the duo idea, but with her and Kiddy. Ultimate already established them as being a notable duo if Dixie’s enhanced Spirit is anything to go off of

As for Toad I think I mostly agree, but I do think Captain Toad still may have a shot. Realistically Ultimate would have been the Captain’s only chance of becoming playable, and that game’s newcomer selection was rather limited, and they were probably not requested enough to take priority.

It has been over a decade since Captain Toad’s game though, which is a definite hindrance, but they do still make regular appearances in Mario games. Really I think their biggest obstacle is the competition with other Mario characters.

As for Takamaru, I definitely think he needs a new game if he wants a chance at becoming playable unfortunately. I think this is the case for a lot of Nintendo characters I really want to see like Chibi-Robo, Ray, and Saki.

Another character I think isn’t in the cards anymore is Tails. For the longest time I saw Tails as the number two Sonic character, but Shadow has completely overshadowed him in pretty much every way, and Tails has sadly lost prominence as time has gone by.

I have no doubt that if we get another Sonic character it will be Shadow, and I doubt we will get a 3rd, and even if we did I think Eggman might be next in line, he’s more requested than Tails, and would have more to offer than a third animal that curls up into a ball to attack.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I wouldn’t rule out a new retro character, but as time goes on, that scale begins to skew towards the GBA and GCN era to pull a retro face from.

With Pokémon, a Gen 9 representative feels less likely after Sakurai’s project being announced. Skipping on Galar and Paldea is pretty much skipping the entire Switch era of Pokémon. On the other hand, a Gen 10 representative may be more unique and interesting. We’ll have to wait and see.

Judging by Xenoblade X’s place in the Xenoblade series as of XDE, and how close we’re cutting likely with the roster planning, I feel that Elma just isn’t in the cards. There’s too much competition with XB3 or even a future XB4 or XC2 NS2E to get a fighter.

With Metroid Prime 4 coming this year, it will likely be a fight for a Metroid character between Raven Beak and Sylux. I do think Sylux would be the one to get in out of these two.

 

[RileyXY1]

I wouldn’t rule out a new retro character, but as time goes on, that scale begins to skew towards the GBA and GCN era to pull a retro face from.

With Pokémon, a Gen 9 representative feels less likely after Sakurai’s project being announced. Skipping on Galar and Paldea is pretty much skipping the entire Switch era of Pokémon. On the other hand, a Gen 10 representative may be more unique and interesting. We’ll have to wait and see.

Judging by Xenoblade X’s place in the Xenoblade series as of XDE, and how close we’re cutting likely with the roster planning, I feel that Elma just isn’t in the cards. There’s too much competition with XB3 or even a future XB4 or XC2 NS2E to get a fighter.

With Metroid Prime 4 coming this year, it will likely be a fight for a Metroid character between Raven Beak and Sylux. I do think Sylux would be the one to get in out of these two.

I think that even Gen 10 is gonna be skipped, so we'll pretty much have three gens completely skipped over due to just how long we'll have to wait for the next Smash game after Ultimate's release.

 

[Watuna4343]

If we are talking about narrowing down the roster to 30 veterans then I think these are the characters least likely to get cut.

View attachment 401365

See, this is literally why I think the OG 12 status not only applying to Jigglypuff is a double standard, because in such a small roster with such drastic cuts, I can't see Ness and Captain Falcon staying but keeping Pokémon and Fire Emblem to 2 reps and 1 rep (especially if we are - rightfully, might I add - keeping 4 Mario characters, ) just doesn't feel realistic at all. And I am not even talking about putting Jigglypuff in here but I mean, come on, cutting Lucario for example? Ness and Captain Falcon both absolutely get axed in this case of harsher cuts

 

[fogbadge]

Wonder if this had been talked about before - but what of your personally wanted newcomers or characters have you come to feel like are just not in the cards realistically anymore, or had their chances gone since past games?

pretty much. Toad, sure he has plenty going for him but he has had for a while and he's always passed over. Toadette, much the same although her prominence does seem to have gone up a fair bit recently. Chibi-Robo, always been a more niche series and it's been dormant for a while. Tails, popular, gaming icon but people love shadow.

 

[DarthEnderX]

what of your personally wanted newcomers or characters have you come to feel like are just not in the cards realistically anymore, or had their chances gone since past games?

King Hippo.

The biggest one for me is Waluigi, but that would imply he had a "realistic chance" before and not anymore as opposed to the simple fact he never had one to begin with and I had blind hope until after Smash For.

Do any of you have most wanted Third Party villains? (In the same vein as Sephiroth) Personally mine is Psaro Banesword who i’ve talked about before.

Fighters
Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
M. Bison [Street Fighter]
Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]
Majima [Like A Dragon]
Wesker [Resident Evil]
Vergil [Devil May Cry]

Echoes
31e. Liquid Snake [Snake]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]

Bosses
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]
Astaroth [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]

 

[Nabbitfan730]

So when something goes against your argument it’s a “mistake” that won’t happen again, and you’re sure it won’t happen again, because…..?

The raging popularity to bring back sure is good evidence

Why bring him back for 4 if it wasn't?

Especially when Lucario fulfills his archetype

I feel like this is pretty disingenuous. F-Zero just got a new installment in the last couple of years and Earthbound is so, SO legendary that the popularity RPGs in that vain has skyrocketed, Undertale especially but not exclusively

Free title remake of the first title isn't exactly mainstream relevancy and Earthbound is such a blanket statement that applies to almost every franchise already in and even then that description is kinda overstated

Undertale is its own popularity which comes with other inspirations that isn't Mother. I argue this is probably reason why they would be cut if push really comes to shove over Puff.

Undertale is much relevant and popular in the modern day than Mother really was. Show anyone a pic of Ness and Sans or even just mention the games and find out who actually "legendary"

 

[Gengar84]

Do any of you have most wanted Third Party villains? (In the same vein as Sephiroth) Personally mine is Psaro Banesword who i’ve talked about before.

I do, though a lot of them are in a sort of gray area between heroes and villains but all were at least antagonists or morally gray at one point. Here’s a few I’d love to see:

Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Jinx (League of Legends)
Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)
Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)
Fulgore (Killer Instinct)
Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
Xemnas or Ansem (Kingdom Hearts)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Diablo (Diablo)
Velvet Crowe (Tales)
Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors)

 

[Guynamednelson]

I wouldn’t rule out a new retro character, but as time goes on, that scale begins to skew towards the GBA and GCN era to pull a retro face from.

Nintendo seems to care about the NES era more than you think. It was the first console to get games on Nintendo Switch Online, and the character wall at the Nintendo Museum features several NES-era sprites and artwork as well as characters who haven't gotten new games since then

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I think these are the safest Nintendo characters if the roster got drastic cuts (not that it should ever get that low). You'd have to add more Pokémon and FE if you were gonna try to make this an official roster, but I still don't know which ones would be highest priority.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Free title remake of the first title isn't exactly mainstream relevancy and Earthbound is such a blanket statement that applies to almost every franchise already in and even then that description is kinda overstated

Undertale is its own popularity which comes with other inspirations that isn't Mother. I argue this is probably reason why they would be cut if push really comes to shove over Puff.

Undertale is much relevant and popular in the modern day than Mother really was. Show anyone a pic of Ness and Sans or even just mention the games and find out who actually "legendary"

Show anyone a pic of Simon or Samus alongside the Knight from Hollow Knight. Of course times have gone on and things that were inspired by the older games have become more popular because well, they’re new.

The problem is you’re basing the whole of your argument off of popularity alone while ever since Melee the Smash games have prided themselves on bringing niche, forgotten, or otherwise irrelevant characters to the forefront. Trophies weren’t put into Melee willy-nilly. Sakurai has always had a soft spot for gaming legacy and history. The Legacy of Earthbound and F-Zero far outweighs their popularity and that’s something that needs to be taken into account.

Yeah, on a side-by-side Sans is obviously going to be more well known but Toby Fox started out as an Earthbound ROM Hacker and Undertale wouldn’t have existed without Earthbound. Games inspired by Earthbound come out QUITE often now not just Deltarune. Yeah, F-Zero has been mostly dormant but it’s went on to inspire Redout, FAST, and even Mario Kart. Metroid might not be the most popular Metroidvania around but its name is the Genre.

There’s an argument to be made for legacy characters and when there is so much industry love for those classics it’s hard to make the argument that cutting them wouldn’t make a massive hole in the roster. Jigglypuff, as much as I doubt she’ll ever be cut isn’t even in the Top 10 most popular Pokémon so cutting her doesn’t feel like a very big deal but as Smash fans we all know it REALLY is.

 

[Will]

I think these are the safest Nintendo characters if the roster got drastic cuts (not that it should ever get that low). You'd have to add more Pokémon and FE if you were gonna try to make this an official roster, but I still don't know which ones would be highest priority.

I can’t believe Kirby Dragons kept all the Kirby characters

 

[Pupp135]

I think these are the safest Nintendo characters if the roster got drastic cuts (not that it should ever get that low). You'd have to add more Pokémon and FE if you were gonna try to make this an official roster, but I still don't know which ones would be highest priority.

This is mostly in line with what I’d expect in addition to the mostly dormant fighters who have very strong ties to the SSB series (Captain Falcon (F-Zero technically isn’t dormant anymore), Ness, Pit, and Mr. Game & Watch) and Mii Fighters. From Pokemon and Fire Emblem, my current hunch for the highest priorities is Pokemon Trainer and Lucario for Pokemon and Ike and Byleth for Fire Emblem.

 

[RileyXY1]

Show anyone a pic of Simon or Samus alongside the Knight from Hollow Knight. Of course times have gone on and things that were inspired by the older games have become more popular because well, they’re new.

The problem is you’re basing the whole of your argument off of popularity alone while ever since Melee the Smash games have prided themselves on bringing niche, forgotten, or otherwise irrelevant characters to the forefront. Trophies weren’t put into Melee willy-nilly. Sakurai has always had a soft spot for gaming legacy and history. The Legacy of Earthbound and F-Zero far outweighs their popularity and that’s something that needs to be taken into account.

Yeah, on a side-by-side Sans is obviously going to be more well known but Toby Fox started out as an Earthbound ROM Hacker and Undertale wouldn’t have existed without Earthbound. Games inspired by Earthbound come out QUITE often now not just Deltarune. Yeah, F-Zero has been mostly dormant but it’s went on to inspire Redout, FAST, and even Mario Kart. Metroid might not be the most popular Metroidvania around but its name is the Genre.

There’s an argument to be made for legacy characters and when there is so much industry love for those classics it’s hard to make the argument that cutting them wouldn’t make a massive hole in the roster. Jigglypuff, as much as I doubt she’ll ever be cut isn’t even in the Top 10 most popular Pokémon so cutting her doesn’t feel like a very big deal but as Smash fans we all know it REALLY is.

And that's not getting into the biggest game that was inspired by Earthbound: Pokémon.

 

[Oracle Link]

I wanna talk about my Personal most wanted zelda fighters in Detail!
(I wont really go over popular picks)

1. SMOL Link

Hes my favourite Videogame Character Design Period! Hes my favourite and most nostalgic link (because he looks like the gb sprites)
He would be a great new succsesor of the small link moniker, a good addition (minus the fact that there are already 5 links in smash) or an amazing costume of some kind
And thanks to echoes of wisdom and the oracles he could have fun twists on existing link moves like triple bow shot, bombchus, switch hook (for a goofy grab), and rocs cape/feather as his double jump!

2. Octorok

And here we have my favourite Enemy in gaming! (Whenever nintendo makes them with the classic recipe)
He has great moveset potential thanks to all the octorok variants in zelda and because hes an octopus there arent many characters who could provide his blend of zoning and tentacle based attacks!
I do hope at the very least nintendo picks the classic octoroks as the variant featured in spirits, miicostumes and as an enemy in the next game!

3. A goron (probably Yunobo/Daruk)

Minus the above mentioned, the big 3, ganon reciving a new moveset! and smAol zelda replacing beeg zelda its my most wanted zelda thing!
I really wanna see a goron in smash! Granted unlike link and octorok i dont really see me maining him however he would be such a cool/ important zelda thing to have!
Again i would be fine if they recieves a stage or mii costume but gorons have probably the most moveset potential of every zelda race! From roling, to hammer, to bomb flowers and daruks protection and the fire roll in daruks or yunobos case!

LASTLY WHAT EVER SMASH 6 DOES!
Please for the love of god have atleast 1 small link sure i have my favourite! But even a port of ultimate toon link with a new cel shaded model
Or even young link from Oot, albw or friggin Zelda 1
Is better then nothing!
Such a important part of zelda History HAS to be preserved! Link is still a kid in the majority of zelda and i think that deserves more respect!

 

[Laniv]

Wonder if this had been talked about before - but what of your personally wanted newcomers or characters have you come to feel like are just not in the cards realistically anymore, or had their chances gone since past games?

Currently to me, I've long come to feel the characters I've been wanting the most since Melee and Brawl just have had no chance in Smash anymore due becoming too codified on the NPC-roles they're given, or passed over due myriad of following factors.

1 - Dixie Kong = Lack of Interest on Moveset Potential, and Apathy on DK Series

Despite being explored as possibly being a duo character with Diddy before getting cut, Sakurai hasn't ever bothered revisiting Dixie ever since, making me personally believe he views her with having not much interesting to go off on her own (even with her ponytail, it's just isn't enough or even noteworthy for him.)

On that end, there's also me observing how Sakurai personally hadn't been interested on exploring DK-series series since Brawl to give it more characters, if going by how it took us the Smash Ballot to give us K.Rool - whilst glossing over potentials of Cranky Kong as a new unexpected retro rep that'd also allow the OG Donkey Kong of arcade-era be on the roster, and even Funky Kong as a possible echo/semiclone.

2 - Toad (Captain or Reg.) = No Inherent Moveset Potential => Codified NPC for Peach's Special Move since Melee, possibly for foreseaable future.

As someone wanting Toad since Melee-days, I feel like Sakurai has just never seen Toad beyond being an easily frightened little guy representing many interchangeable ones of his kind as we see him in first stage of Melee's Adventure Mode.

Even past Captain Toad getting his own game, the playable appearances of Toads in NSMB-games, his solo playable roles in SMB2, SM 3D World and probably most interesting of all, Wario's Woods - none of them has made Sakurai to consider him again for a fighter status, making it easy for him to move on working on Rosalina, Bowser Jr and eventually Piranha Plant over him. The very last one has definitely told me enough that Toad's just not inherently interesting character for him to explore, possibly since Melee-days. Maybe Toad's just that kinda everyguy NPC and thus, this is the best he'll get, especially with Captain Toad's train having gone by a decade ago now?

Ultimate making Toad be more active in Peach's moveset seems to make me wonder should I wish for Toad to grow more active in Peach's moveset enough to make them to a duo-character, but that itself feels pretty unlikely due being parasitic (no pun intended).


3 - Takamaru = Too Obscure To Be Playable. (Same for Starfy, Lip and Isaac)


Pretty self-explanatory as Sakurai had said so himself about Takamaru. But to me, it's bit saddening as it feels like this is what the characters like Takamaru, remain as, possibly for as long as the series keeps on going - unless he becomes the new "retro rep" in Smash 6 (which by that point, would maybe feel too trite for Sakurai to do after Piranha Plant letting him experiment in very new ways while sticking on a prime IP)

The only way for them to get possibly out this status would be to receive a big revival or reboot enough to make the series go out of the C-List tier to B-List, enough to stand in level of Fire Emblem or Xenoblade for example. To quote a certain ogre: "Like that's ever going to happen".

(Little Mac meanwhile had both luxury of a recently new game and a moveset potential that just happened to interest Sakurai at the time based on Mac's Assist Trophy-based moves in Brawl.)

I've kinda come to feel relatively accepting and ambivalent on too-obscure series or protagonists to have a playable spot in Smash in general, especially those very much more active in Japan-only territory p but I can't help bringing up above point especially, as it basically makes obscurities just mere "museum exhibits" in Smash in the long run, and make them lose much intrigue after people becoming mainly familiar of them on being Smash... and nothing else.


____

I kinda do hope to see more character reworks of existing ones I already like to play as, but it's kinda clear to me how I'm not that excited for next Smash outside of it being a possible rebooted entry, which could mean a new, refreshed take on things we haven't seen a while or could use reworks, especially older characters dating way back to 64's Smash.

Well, I choose blind, foolish faith relentless optimism for Toad, so I'll say Vaati. Dude is effectively dead

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well, I choose blind, foolish faith relentless optimism for Toad, so I'll say Vaati. Dude is effectively dead

I'd still kill for Vaati to be in Smash in general... always have since the 2000s. Maybe I'll pivot on getting him to Smash Bros Crusade instead~

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Wonder if this had been talked about before - but what of your personally wanted newcomers or characters have you come to feel like are just not in the cards realistically anymore, or had their chances gone since past games?

I think Tingle's time has probably passed. While the kneejerk antipathy towards him is long gone, there hasn't really been a major groundswell of supporters that's emerged, and the LoZ series has become far more populated with figures that are realistically ahead of him terms of fan support and possibly gameplay potential. Over time he increasingly feels like a relic of the 2000s period that's fun to see pop up in series celebrations like Hyrule Warriors but not really much beyond that.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, I choose blind, foolish faith relentless optimism for Toad, so I'll say Vaati. Dude is effectively dead

well he took a sword to the eye

 

[chocolatejr9]

Wonder if this had been talked about before - but what of your personally wanted newcomers or characters have you come to feel like are just not in the cards realistically anymore, or had their chances gone since past games?

Currently to me, I've long come to feel the characters I've been wanting the most since Melee and Brawl just have had no chance in Smash anymore due becoming too codified on the NPC-roles they're given, or passed over due myriad of following factors.

1 - Dixie Kong = Lack of Interest on Moveset Potential, and Apathy on DK Series

Despite being explored as possibly being a duo character with Diddy before getting cut, Sakurai hasn't ever bothered revisiting Dixie ever since, making me personally believe he views her with having not much interesting to go off on her own (even with her ponytail, it's just isn't enough or even noteworthy for him.)

On that end, there's also me observing how Sakurai personally hadn't been interested on exploring DK-series series since Brawl to give it more characters, if going by how it took us the Smash Ballot to give us K.Rool - whilst glossing over potentials of Cranky Kong as a new unexpected retro rep that'd also allow the OG Donkey Kong of arcade-era be on the roster, and even Funky Kong as a possible echo/semiclone.

2 - Toad (Captain or Reg.) = No Inherent Moveset Potential => Codified NPC for Peach's Special Move since Melee, possibly for foreseaable future.

As someone wanting Toad since Melee-days, I feel like Sakurai has just never seen Toad beyond being an easily frightened little guy representing many interchangeable ones of his kind as we see him in first stage of Melee's Adventure Mode.

Even past Captain Toad getting his own game, the playable appearances of Toads in NSMB-games, his solo playable roles in SMB2, SM 3D World and probably most interesting of all, Wario's Woods - none of them has made Sakurai to consider him again for a fighter status, making it easy for him to move on working on Rosalina, Bowser Jr and eventually Piranha Plant over him. The very last one has definitely told me enough that Toad's just not inherently interesting character for him to explore, possibly since Melee-days. Maybe Toad's just that kinda everyguy NPC and thus, this is the best he'll get, especially with Captain Toad's train having gone by a decade ago now?

Ultimate making Toad be more active in Peach's moveset seems to make me wonder should I wish for Toad to grow more active in Peach's moveset enough to make them to a duo-character, but that itself feels pretty unlikely due being parasitic (no pun intended).


3 - Takamaru = Too Obscure To Be Playable. (Same for Starfy, Lip and Isaac)


Pretty self-explanatory as Sakurai had said so himself about Takamaru. But to me, it's bit saddening as it feels like this is what the characters like Takamaru, remain as, possibly for as long as the series keeps on going - unless he becomes the new "retro rep" in Smash 6 (which by that point, would maybe feel too trite for Sakurai to do after Piranha Plant letting him experiment in very new ways while sticking on a prime IP)

The only way for them to get possibly out this status would be to receive a big revival or reboot enough to make the series go out of the C-List tier to B-List, enough to stand in level of Fire Emblem or Xenoblade for example. To quote a certain ogre: "Like that's ever going to happen".

(Little Mac meanwhile had both luxury of a recently new game and a moveset potential that just happened to interest Sakurai at the time based on Mac's Assist Trophy-based moves in Brawl.)

I've kinda come to feel relatively accepting and ambivalent on too-obscure series or protagonists to have a playable spot in Smash in general, especially those very much more active in Japan-only territory p but I can't help bringing up above point especially, as it basically makes obscurities just mere "museum exhibits" in Smash in the long run, and make them lose much intrigue after people becoming mainly familiar of them on being Smash... and nothing else.


____

I kinda do hope to see more character reworks of existing ones I already like to play as, but it's kinda clear to me how I'm not that excited for next Smash outside of it being a possible rebooted entry, which could mean a new, refreshed take on things we haven't seen a while or could use reworks, especially older characters dating way back to 64's Smash.

Eudan from Dragalia Lost. Loved that game, but unless they REALLY want to include a rep for their mobile games (and even then, FEH is right there), his chances pretty much died with his game. Still have some copium for a potential rerelease, though...

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

See, this is literally why I think the OG 12 status not only applying to Jigglypuff is a double standard, because in such a small roster with such drastic cuts, I can't see Ness and Captain Falcon staying but keeping Pokémon and Fire Emblem to 2 reps and 1 rep (especially if we are - rightfully, might I add - keeping 4 Mario characters, ) just doesn't feel realistic at all. And I am not even talking about putting Jigglypuff in here but I mean, come on, cutting Lucario for example? Ness and Captain Falcon both absolutely get axed in this case of harsher cuts

As I said earlier

These are just the 30 characters I think are the least likely to get cut in general, not the 30 characters I think Nintendo would pick if they decided to only bring back 30 characters (which I think is highly improbable).

I don’t think you can make a “realistic” 30 character veteran roster, because a 30 character veteran roster is already so unrealistic.

Also 2 Pokémon and 1 Fire Emblem veterans, this isn’t even accounting for newcomers.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Eudan from Dragalia Lost. Loved that game, but unless they REALLY want to include a rep for their mobile games (and even then, FEH is right there), his chances pretty much died with his game. Still have some copium for a potential rerelease, though...

There is also stuff like Granblue fantasy or even Fate grand order giving it competition mobile game wise.

 

[Oracle Link]

BTW If Toy Link Replaces Toon Link (or just if we get a toy link Game with Customization) How would you like THIS Outift:

I think Toy Link In Toon Clothes goes absolutly Hard! (or honestly the opposite just a whimsical Creature)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, I choose blind, foolish faith relentless optimism for Toad, so I'll say Vaati. Dude is effectively dead

Man Vaati takes me back. I wanted Vaati too. Minish Cap is one of the GOATs. I remember when Vaati was "the most likely Zelda newcomer" because he was on of the few reoccurring characters. Which nowadays didn't mean much because he had the staying power of an open jar of mayonnaise. He isn't remembered by people aside from hardcore Zelda fans (like me) or old Smash speculators (also me).

Thinking back though, Vaati support was always kind of weird. All the fan movesets I saw used wind magic. That's something we see in a small text box but never in game. He has cool attack from his actual boss fights but people latched on to a potential idea instead. In a way, he reminds me of Sylux, where people like the potential more than what was actually shown. At least Sylux has a chance to show what they can do. We'll probably never see Vaati again.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Man Vaati takes me back. I wanted Vaati too. Minish Cap is one of the GOATs. I remember when Vaati was "the most likely Zelda newcomer" because he was on of the few reoccurring characters. Which nowadays didn't mean much because he had the staying power of an open jar of mayonnaise. He isn't remembered by people aside from hardcore Zelda fans (like me) or old Smash speculators (also me).

Thinking back though, Vaati support was always kind of weird. All the fan movesets I saw used wind magic. That's something we see in a small text box but never in game. He has cool attack from his actual boss fights but people latched on to a potential idea instead. In a way, he reminds me of Sylux, where people like the potential more than what was actually shown. At least Sylux has a chance to show what they can do. We'll probably never see Vaati again.

I think one of the most telling indications of his status was Vaati not appearing in Hyrule Warriors when that game was filled with various deep cuts from the series. Granted the broader circumstances of that game (Koei Tecmo perhaps not keen on including a character from a Capcom developed Zelda title given their recent enmity) didn't help, but there certainly didn't seem like there was that much of outcry from the fandom that he wasn't included either.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I think Tingle's time has probably passed. While the kneejerk antipathy towards him is long gone, there hasn't really been a major groundswell of supporters that's emerged, and the LoZ series has become far more populated with figures that a realistically ahead of him terms of fan support and possibly gameplay potential. Over time he increasingly feels like a relic of the 2000s period that's fun to see pop in series celebrations like Hyrule Warriors but not really much beyond that.

Also the fact that he hasn’t appeared physically in a mainline title since the Minish Cap. He had his own games on the DS but most of them were Japanese exclusive.

I think his negative reception in the west is why he hasn’t appeared much after the 2000s

BTW If Toy Link Replaces Toon Link (or just if we get a toy link Game with Customization) How would you like THIS Outift:

Not sure if that will happen since Smash generally either puts a default weapons or iconic weapon that was present in their game so it’s likely that “Toy” Link would use the weapons that were featured in his official artworks rather then using weapons from a completely different Link.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Man Vaati takes me back. I wanted Vaati too. Minish Cap is one of the GOATs. I remember when Vaati was "the most likely Zelda newcomer" because he was on of the few reoccurring characters. Which nowadays didn't mean much because he had the staying power of an open jar of mayonnaise. He isn't remembered by people aside from hardcore Zelda fans (like me) or old Smash speculators (also me).

Thinking back though, Vaati support was always kind of weird. All the fan movesets I saw used wind magic. That's something we see in a small text box but never in game. He has cool attack from his actual boss fights but people latched on to a potential idea instead. In a way, he reminds me of Sylux, where people like the potential more than what was actually shown. At least Sylux has a chance to show what they can do. We'll probably never see Vaati again.

I think people really like those type of magic users since they have so much moveset potential. I always said that one of the reason Isaac was / is such a popular characters is probably because the idea of having a new magic users in Smash more than Golden sun being popular itself. Ashley is also a very popular pick for being a mage user despite WarioWare having a lot of other interesting pick, and Kamek recently got a surge in popularity with the Mario movie.