Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Bones0]

I still dont understand what the red shells are. Is it an item? I can imagine DI'ing no problem when you know of an incoming hit but I'll give it a go anyway.

I cannot seem to get any successfull DIs out nor techs/tech rolls (Fightning the cpu here) I'll keep trying and get back with my progress.
Q: Is tech chasing a term describing you reading and reacting to missed or succesfull techs only? Or does that refer to any kind of follow up where the opponent hits the ground/surface inbetween? Or does it cover more than that?
I find the term Tech to be very unprecise in terms of the name itself. Short for technical? Isn't it essentially just L-cancelling?

Thank you for the DA tilt fair combo. I usually follow up DAs with more DAs lol or upsmash or downsmash. Tilts are great but I haven't been using them effectively partly because tilts are"hard" to do consistantly for a beginner in rushed situations. All but dtilt for some reason.

When I asked for a movement drill it was more of a request for how to more all over say Battle Field quickly and efficiently.
Would wave landing on each platform and jump to the next one mixing it up with DDs be enough (I cant do that yet tho) but what could I add on top of that?

Red shells are an item that homes in on you. If you wanted to see what SDI was, you could smash the stick as soon as the red shell collides with you.

DI isn't really a binary thing that you either get or don't get. Your influence over your trajectory can be drastic but also subtle. If you are holding the stick at all before you get hit, you are inevitably DIing. You just need to work on DIing perpendicular to the default angle to make as much of a difference as possible. DIing throws like Fox's or Puff's uthrow left/right is probably the easiest way to tell when you're doing it.

If you can't tech, make sure you are pressing the trigger in all the way. A good way to practice teching is to play Jigglypuff's Break the Targets mode. Ignore the targets and timer and instead run into the burners to your immediate left. As they knock you back into the wall, press L/R and you should wall tech. Ground teching is the same timing. Consulting ssbwiki: "The word 'tech' is borrowed from the competitive communities of other fighting games and traces its origin back to technical bonuses awarded in Capcom games for performing special maneuvers to escape grab attacks and get much less damage and more recovery time."

Teching is NOT L-canceling. Teching is pressing the trigger all the way in to make your character getup from their landing quicker. L-cancelling only requires a light press of L/R or Z, and it halves the amount of landing lag you receive when landing during an aerial.

Pretty much any punish you do after an opponent lands on the ground during tumble is considered a tech chase. Traditionally it is thought of as chaining multiple throws together by throwing them, reacting or reading their tech option (including not teching at all) and then regrabbing them. Sheik's dthrow is probably the most iconic "tech chase" move, and you will see all the top Sheik players utilize it to various degrees.

Dashing, DDing, WDing, and WLing are really the only techniques you need to move around a stage.

 

[The_Trip]

double post.

 

[The_Trip]

Thank you so much Bones0, it means alot that you take the time and explain these things. I know alot (if not all) of this info is to be found on the wiki and elsewhere, but it does make a big difference hearing it in response to a question.
Little did I know that you can hold a direction within an unlimited timeframe before getting hit to successfully DI where SDI needs to be incredibly precisely timed.
This is somewhat comforting to know in say a situation where you are sent flying high and when coming down almost guaranteed to get followed up on. In this situation it is really "easy" to predict the incoming attack thus DI'ing becomes "easy".
In close combat its a daunting task to get that timing as well as keeping control of your own movement.
Here is an idea for an approach tho: Rely on retrieving aerials using the cstick and hold up and to the side on the control stick. Would that be a way of doing it?

Since yesterday I have done many successfull techs playing the computer. I can really feel the difference!
I have yet to tech into a roll but I can see how it will help getting your ground and space once again.

I have also successfully Wd'ed back DA to double tilt fair. I seems like it only works at mid %age, like 40+. Would I be able to do the combo earlier with a SFFL'd fair in the end?
Until then I try and get a grab/tech chase combo using dthrow as you say. It also feels awesome to do dthrow WD upsmash.

I am starting to drill train SFFLs in place.
Regarding those is if safe to say that I only need to practice the neutral, back and forward ones? I cant seem to get anything from the downair in a SFFL (because of the windup the hitbox never comes out) and the upair only has hit box on the legs so it seems pointless to use it close to the ground.
I really really like the diar tho. Any tips on using that? I have seen m2k and kirbykaze use them to combo when the opponent hit and upper platform then jump from the ground and punish them on the platform (so awesome!!) Any other applications? Would it be possible to a ken combo with sheik?

 

[Bones0]

Thank you so much Bones0, it means alot that you take the time and explain these things. I know alot (if not all) of this info is to be found on the wiki and elsewhere, but it does make a big difference hearing it in response to a question.
Little did I know that you can hold a direction within an unlimited timeframe before getting hit to successfully DI where SDI needs to be incredibly precisely timed.
This is somewhat comforting to know in say a situation where you are sent flying high and when coming down almost guaranteed to get followed up on. In this situation is really "easy" to predict the incoming attack thus DI'ing becomes "easy".
In close combat its a daunting task to get that timing as well as keeping control of your own movement.

Since yesterday I have done many successfull techs playing the computer. I can really feel the difference!
I have yet to tech into a roll but I can see how it will help getting your ground and space once again.

I have also successfully Wd'ed back DA to double tilt fair. I seems like it only works at mid %age, like 40+. Would I be able to do the combo earlier with a SFFL'd fair in the end?
Until then I try and get a grab/tech chase combo using dthrow as you say. It also feels awesome to do dthrow WD upsmash.

I am starting to drill train SFFLs in place.
Regarding those is if safe to say that I only need to practice the neutral, back and forward ones? I cant seem to get anything from the downair in a SFFL (because of the windup the hitbox never comes out) and the upair only has hit box on the legs so it seems pointless to use it close to the ground.
I really really like the diar tho. Any tips on using that? I have seen m2k and kirbykaze use them to combo when the opponent hit and upper platform then jump from the ground and punish them on the platform (so awesome!!) Any other applications? Would it be possible to a ken combo with sheik?

What %s you can do the combo will depend on the opponent's character as well as their DI. All of these variables coming into play for even the most basic combos is what makes Melee so amazing, so just keep experimenting and you will develop an intuitive understanding and feel for when you can do certain moves or combos.

As for tips on using dair, that is Sheik specific so I would recommend heading to the Sheik forums and finding the main discussion thread. In there, you can ask other Sheik players about character-specific stuff. I'll just leave you with one of my favorite Mew2King clips of all time where he shows what happens when you have precision tech chasing and followups using dair.

 

[The_Trip]

That's exactly what I was referring to. What a beautiful combo :O
Thanks again for your help.
I'll post again if I can come up with more general gameplay questions.

 

[menotyou135]

I have a simple question. Why was DK64 taken off as a counterpick stage? It was a neutral in 64. I understand removing it as a neutral when better neutrals exist, but why not be a counterpick?

 

[Bones0]

I have a simple question. Why was DK64 taken off as a counterpick stage? It was a neutral in 64. I understand removing it as a neutral when better neutrals exist, but why not be a counterpick?

Some characters are easily timed out.

 

[menotyou135]

Some characters are easily timed out.

Which ones?

 

[Krynxe]

prime example ^

 

[Scroll]

My account has been activated. I will no longer be using The_Trip account at all

 

[menotyou135]

prime example ^

Thank you. Was the same problem present in 64 with characters like Jiggs and Kirby?

 

[tauKhan]

I don't play 64 and watch it rarely, but the problem seems to apply to the smash 64 at top level in general.

 

[Riposte__]

I need help getting Dolphin to work with a melee rom. When I drag the extracted file into the Dolphin emulator it briefly opens a black window, then shuts. Is there a place I should get a rom from that works better, or is there something i'm missing?

 

[Krynxe]

Thank you. Was the same problem present in 64 with characters like Jiggs and Kirby?

Smash 64 does not have an in-game timer for stock matches, so players would have to approach eventually.

The map was also slightly smaller relative to character size, and camping vertically is just generally less effective in that game. (camping is why Hyrule was removed from being legal)

 

[Ben Zed]

I posted this question as a thread already, but it's probably more suited to be posted here any way, so...

"Pretty straight forward; I have no idea how to practice DI, SDI, ASDI, or whatever alone. In fact, I'm only vaguely aware of the difference among any of these. If someone could even clarify that, that would be awesome, as I obviously can't practice something I don't fully understand.

Also, on an unrelated note, I found that using the C Stick for ledge dropping keeps you from fast falling, something I hadn't realized and I find incredibly useful. The only issue is that I find that I'll randomly D-air from time to time instead of just releasing the edge. Is that random, or am I actually doing something wrong?"

 

[Xyzz]

random dair when letting go via the c-stick: probably accidentally going from left to down, so you get two inputs
di: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RP3sbS7Dm0 there's a video for that, and a thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/a-gu...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/

 

[AquaTech]

Help! After being a casual melee player back in high school, I'm trying to pick it up again now. I am mostly starting out with Marth now. I can wavedash, but I cannot for the life of me figure out the timing for L-Cancel. I've watched tutorial videos about practicing with Bowser or Ganondorf, but I'm basically in two situations. Either I miss the L-Cancel, or I get it, but I then sit in my shield for a split second. I can't find the happy medium. Can someone precisely explain to me what your L input is when coming down from an aerial. When do you tap it, how hard do you push it, and when exactly do you let it go?
Just got my new white controller in the mail today and trying to test all this out

So do you push L when you are executing your aerial in the air? Or right when you land, or before you land?
Do you tap it for a split second? Or hold it until L-cancel has happened?

 

[Bones0]

Help! After being a casual melee player back in high school, I'm trying to pick it up again now. I am mostly starting out with Marth now. I can wavedash, but I cannot for the life of me figure out the timing for L-Cancel. I've watched tutorial videos about practicing with Bowser or Ganondorf, but I'm basically in two situations. Either I miss the L-Cancel, or I get it, but I then sit in my shield for a split second. I can't find the happy medium. Can someone precisely explain to me what your L input is when coming down from an aerial. When do you tap it, how hard do you push it, and when exactly do you let it go?
Just got my new white controller in the mail today and trying to test all this out

So do you push L when you are executing your aerial in the air? Or right when you land, or before you land?
Do you tap it for a split second? Or hold it until L-cancel has happened?

You need to press L within 7 frames of landing.

You only need to light press the trigger. Pressing it all the way in (to the click) can cause you to accidentally airdodge, it can mess up your techs because you can't input another tech for 40 frames, and like you said with your problem, you will accidentally shield because the first half of the trigger does the L-cancel and the second half is shielding after your lag ends.

You do not need to hold L/R/Z until you land. Just release it asap.

Just sit down and practice L-cancelling Marth's aerials for 30 minutes and you'll start getting the hang of it in no time(dair will be the easiest to tell if it was done correctly because it has the most lag).

 

[AquaTech]

You need to press L within 7 frames of landing.

You only need to light press the trigger. Pressing it all the way in (to the click) can cause you to accidentally airdodge, it can mess up your techs because you can't input another tech for 40 frames, and like you said with your problem, you will accidentally shield because the first half of the trigger does the L-cancel and the second half is shielding after your lag ends.

You do not need to hold L/R/Z until you land. Just release it asap.

Just sit down and practice L-cancelling Marth's aerials for 30 minutes and you'll start getting the hang of it in no time(dair will be the easiest to tell if it was done correctly because it has the most lag).

Ah thank you, that "within 7 frames of landing" cue really helped me frame it mentally, I can do it pretty consistently with Marth and Falcon now, thanks!

 

[Ohsm]

I am a huge fan of hax's BF only idea which sparked a couple of years ago.
So my question is: did anyone actually tried a tournament with just BF on the stage list?

 

[Bones0]

I am a huge fan of hax's BF only idea which sparked a couple of years ago.
So my question is: did anyone actually tried a tournament with just BF on the stage list?

No because no one wants to play on BF for the rest of their lives when there are 5 other perfectly good stages that add variety to the strategy of the game.

 

[Scroll]

I have severe problems with applying DI intentionally.
If you have any tips on how to get started to incorporate DI please share!

Would doing one day of practice, doing nothing but matches against a lvl 9 cpu, ONLY DI'ing, be any good?
I haven't done this excersise yet, but I can imagine DI'ing pretty good if 100% of my focus is on that.
My problem is that I can't seem to grasp the idea of DI'ing proactively while approaching/neutral game.

How do I DI at say 10:30 while approaching at 3 O'clock?
Is my goal to DI every single hit I take?

 

[Xyzz]

It's also my goal to win every single tournament match I play... so far I haven't been successful with that

The best place to start is with stuff where DI is trivial, e.g. Sheik's downthrow takes 30 frames and you virtually always want to DI it the same way (the only exception being when you can slide off a ledge or sth).

 

[Scroll]

thanks.
I think you misunderstood/didn't read my whole post for some reason thoughm because I am not asking for advice on trivial DI.
I can DI effectively on all up and down throws and follow ups (predictable/trivial DI)
My problem is with the neutral game while approaching.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I'm going to sound like a total idiot when asking this, I know, but what's the point of dashdancing in place rather than standing still? Doesn't it make your hitboxes stick out?

 

[Sashimi]

If you land an attack that has multiple hitboxes with different properties (ie tipper vs not tipper) and more than one of those hitboxes touches your opponent, how does the game decide which hitbox is the one that hits?

 

[Scroll]

I'm going to sound like a total idiot when asking this, I know, but what's the point of dashdancing in place rather than standing still? Doesn't it make your hitboxes stick out?

It's like staying on your toes.
You can compare it to a boxer jumping slightliy up and down. It's basically easier to react/move from this idle motion.

Also a moving target is harder to hit than a still one.

 

[Kadano]

If you land an attack that has multiple hitboxes with different properties (ie tipper vs not tipper) and more than one of those hitboxes touches your opponent, how does the game decide which hitbox is the one that hits?

The game checks for hitbubble collisions in the order the hitbubbles are built into the Pl**.dat file. You can check for the order in Toomai’s “SSBM Hitboxes (NTSC 1.0).xlsx” (0>1>2>3) or by using Master Hand to open up your Pl**.dat file.

 

[Bones0]

I'm going to sound like a total idiot when asking this, I know, but what's the point of dashdancing in place rather than standing still? Doesn't it make your hitboxes stick out?

 

[ToastRider]

ive heard a few people say something about holding their R trigger down while plugging in their controller or holding xystart with it down so they can airdodge or shield faster. is this something that all good players do and should i try to get used to it, or do most people play with default triggers?

 

[Mensrea]

Hey everyone. I'm new here. I recently acquired a copy of Melee. I had one previously, but it was stolen. I had been playing Brawl in the absence of Melee, but when a friend offered to trade me my Brawl for his Melee, I jumped on the opportunity.

Now I am looking to get better at the game competitively. I'm a good casual player, and competent in most regards, but I would be dominated in the competitive scene as of right now. I would like to learn advanced techs, how to space, etc.

So my questions is two pronged. First off, I love Samus, is there any way to be competitively viable with her in Melee? Or is she a lost cause?

Secondly, where should I go for instruction on better Melee play? Where should I start?

 

[Bones0]

ive heard a few people say something about holding their R trigger down while plugging in their controller or holding xystart with it down so they can airdodge or shield faster. is this something that all good players do and should i try to get used to it, or do most people play with default triggers?

It's called trigger tricking, but the large majority of players use default triggers. Holding the trigger in when you plug in doesn't allow you to airdodge or shield faster, it just prevents you from light pressing with that trigger which can help for powershielding. Some people also remove the spring which is what allows them to get the hard press faster because it basically turns an analog trigger into a digital button.

Hey everyone. I'm new here. I recently acquired a copy of Melee. I had one previously, but it was stolen. I had been playing Brawl in the absence of Melee, but when a friend offered to trade me my Brawl for his Melee, I jumped on the opportunity.

Now I am looking to get better at the game competitively. I'm a good casual player, and competent in most regards, but I would be dominated in the competitive scene as of right now. I would like to learn advanced techs, how to space, etc.

So my questions is two pronged. First off, I love Samus, is there any way to be competitively viable with her in Melee? Or is she a lost cause?

Secondly, where should I go for instruction on better Melee play? Where should I start?

Samus is amazing. Check out Plup's videos from some of the recent summer majors (CEO, MLG, and Evo).

Good starting places:
- Smash Lounge: lists and describes all of the major advanced techniques
- Advanced How To Play: 3-part video series further demonstrating the advanced techniques
- Smash Lab: there are 5 episodes (CTRL+F "Smash Lab") packed with top player commentary about general strategy
- Facebook Groups: list of regional Facebook groups you can join to get active in your local scene; the best way to improve BY FAR is to start going to tournaments and playing people

 

[Ben Zed]

So I'll post this question in a few threads, hopefully one of them is the appropriate one and/or will yield a response.

So everyone says the L/R triggers on the white gamecube controllers are awful, and after trying out one of my other older controllers, I think I get it. The springs are harder to push down, and it makes it a lot harder to wavedash (or hardpress in general) by reaction; generally it messes up my timing.
So my question is, will taking the springs out of the controller do anything to fix this? If I do, should I replace them, perhaps with springs from one of my decade old controllers? Or does the problem lye elsewhere? I imagine someone has gotten bothered enough by the triggers so as to try to alter them.

 

[Mensrea]

snip

Wow this is exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you so much. This is awesome.

 

[Bones0]

So I'll post this question in a few threads, hopefully one of them is the appropriate one and/or will yield a response.

So everyone says the L/R triggers on the white gamecube controllers are awful, and after trying out one of my other older controllers, I think I get it. The springs are harder to push down, and it makes it a lot harder to wavedash (or hardpress in general) by reaction; generally it messes up my timing.
So my question is, will taking the springs out of the controller do anything to fix this? If I do, should I replace them, perhaps with springs from one of my decade old controllers? Or does the problem lye elsewhere? I imagine someone has gotten bothered enough by the triggers so as to try to alter them.

Afaik, there are only 2 different types of springs, and they have the same resistance. I have used white controllers and not noticed anything weird about the triggers. Your older controllers probably feel easier to press because they are broken in. Breaking in the white controller probably wouldn't take long, but you could also swap the springs or simply remove them and sandwich them under a large book for a while to reduce the resistance.

 

[Ben Zed]

Afaik, there are only 2 different types of springs, and they have the same resistance. I have used white controllers and not noticed anything weird about the triggers. Your older controllers probably feel easier to press because they are broken in. Breaking in the white controller probably wouldn't take long, but you could also swap the springs or simply remove them and sandwich them under a large book for a while to reduce the resistance.

So long as it won't be a lasting issue, I guess that's fine. I haven't had a new controller other than this one in like 8 years, so maybe that's why I wouldn't remember this being and issue lol. I've been using this one for a few months though, so I was starting to get a bit annoyed.

 

[forkgirl]

I have a couple questions:

1. I'm reentering the melee scene after a 2-3 year hiatus. In tournament rulesets I noticed that people who press pause during a match will be penalized by losing a stock. I'm curious why the pause option is even on. When and why did this change?

2. I found my two controllers in a box and brought my good, broken in controller to a recent tourney. After a few matches,in the middle of a tournament match, my shield stayed up and all I could do was roll around the stage. (It's like my R got stuck or something) Luckily my opponent let me replug my controller and it was fine for a bit, but kept happening, and more and more frequently as I played with it. A couple weeks later, I went to another tournament and decided I had to use my less broken in white controller. The exact same thing kept happening with this controller. I've never had this issue before and find it strange that it happened to both my controllers at the same time. Like I said, it's as if the R button is getting stuck on the inside (it springs back up, and doesn't feel any differently). If I open the controller, what should I do to fix this? Also, how is this caused? Do I press it too hard, or is this just normal wear and tear, or possibly from sitting in a box for a few years?

 

[Bones0]

I have a couple questions:

1. I'm reentering the melee scene after a 2-3 year hiatus. In tournament rulesets I noticed that people who press pause during a match will be penalized by losing a stock. I'm curious why the pause option is even on. When and why did this change?

2. I found my two controllers in a box and brought my good, broken in controller to a recent tourney. After a few matches,in the middle of a tournament match, my shield stayed up and all I could do was roll around the stage. (It's like my R got stuck or something) Luckily my opponent let me replug my controller and it was fine for a bit, but kept happening, and more and more frequently as I played with it. A couple weeks later, I went to another tournament and decided I had to use my less broken in white controller. The exact same thing kept happening with this controller. I've never had this issue before and find it strange that it happened to both my controllers at the same time. Like I said, it's as if the R button is getting stuck on the inside (it springs back up, and doesn't feel any differently). If I open the controller, what should I do to fix this? Also, how is this caused? Do I press it too hard, or is this just normal wear and tear, or possibly from sitting in a box for a few years?

1. Because people are dumb. I almost always turn off pause in my tournament matches.

2. It sounds like it might be the rubber piece in between the actual trigger and the circuit board sensor. It is gray with a black circle in the center, and it sort of pops in when pressed. If that piece is broken, it might be getting pushed down and not popping back up properly. Whatever is causing it, it should be pretting obvious when you open it up.

 

[abetts]

I'm super new to the melee scene. I'm talking maybe 1 month of reboot after playing the game casually on its release. I play netplay sometimes when bored and am wondering how to improve from getting bodied every single match I play. I try to make notes of what works and what doesn't but it's incredibly frustrating to play against those who are way more skilled. Any other way to go about learning? Thanks.

 

[Scroll]

I'm super new to the melee scene. I'm talking maybe 1 month of reboot after playing the game casually on its release. I play netplay sometimes when bored and am wondering how to improve from getting bodied every single match I play. I try to make notes of what works and what doesn't but it's incredibly frustrating to play against those who are way more skilled. Any other way to go about learning? Thanks.

Welcome!

The first big step towards becomming better is, well, wanting to become better.
Next step is to set small goals and work towards archiving them and only them. Trying to take in too much info at once will be counter productive (in most cases). It's hard to hold back on oneself and not overshooting with one's goals.
A good example is: My goal is to learn to short hop consistantly
or: My goal is to learn the terminology (which is very important if you wanna read specific guides etc.)

If you havent already then read this article (Break it into parts!! )
http://smashboards.com/threads/10-000-words-of-power.295524/