Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Okay great! Thanks a lot!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Thanks for the pickup bones, thats what I was going to say

 

[Scroll]

I am in the same situation, well not really, but I like to play and practice DI and all other things everyday. Trust me this will be your godsend:
Get youself a GC -> USB converter (google/ebay: "Mayflash") and set youself up for Dolphin Emulator netplay.
Follow this guide for a fool proof setup: http://smashboards.com/threads/dolphin-online-melee-netplay.335432/
and use this IRC to find players: https://qchat.rizon.net/?channels=dolphin-ssbm&uio=Nz10cnVlJjk9MzU3fe

Sure it can be suboptimal performance, but at the end of the day it's still pvp Melee and not a dumb computer you're practicing DI on.
Have fun!

 

[JudgeCheerio]

When looking at melee frame data, I usually see things such as start-up and ending lag. Where can I find info on frame (dis)advantage on block? Is there a way to find it myself without the use of an external device?

 

[Zeppeli]

Does anybody have an advice regarding DIing away from Fox's standard juggle moves? (Utilt, Dtilt, low % nair, bair, uair, etc).

Seems as though I always get caught in a frenzy of hits whenever I get upthrow uaired (and miss the SDI on the uair).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

When looking at melee frame data, I usually see things such as start-up and ending lag. Where can I find info on frame (dis)advantage on block? Is there a way to find it myself without the use of an external device?

Some places have it, but its not in SDM's original data. You can do the math yourself if you know how much damage the move does. http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-advantage-on-block.309694/

Does anybody have an advice regarding DIing away from Fox's standard juggle moves? (Utilt, Dtilt, low % nair, bair, uair, etc).

Seems as though I always get caught in a frenzy of hits whenever I get upthrow uaired (and miss the SDI on the uair).

Each move requires different DI, but generally you want to hold down+away to escape combos. Only do up+in for survival. This is really broad advice though, and you didnt even mention your character (btw, ask on their forums for better advice).

 

[Estwood]

Why don't more people wall jump? I once saw a mediocre fox win against a really good peach because he walljumped -> Shine spike.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

guys why is melee so hard

Okay real talk though: I'm playing my heart out each day, and there are times when I face dudes who are just flat out superior to me in everyway. They cycle through the cast, and even do mirrors with me and I still lose. My question is simple: how do I develop my mental skill? I'm not talking about tech skill to wd oos 50 times or understanding when it's safe to attack from the ledge. I mean the ability to analyze the situation and know what opportunities are good and what aren't, to see what puts me in a good situation and ultimately the ability to persevere no matter how many stocks or matches I'm down.

What do I do to train my brain for matches?

 

[Bones0]

guys why is melee so hard

Okay real talk though: I'm playing my heart out each day, and there are times when I face dudes who are just flat out superior to me in everyway. They cycle through the cast, and even do mirrors with me and I still lose. My question is simple: how do I develop my mental skill? I'm not talking about tech skill to wd oos 50 times or understanding when it's safe to attack from the ledge. I mean the ability to analyze the situation and know what opportunities are good and what aren't, to see what puts me in a good situation and ultimately the ability to persevere no matter how many stocks or matches I'm down.

What do I do to train my brain for matches?

Spend a lot of time just thinking about the game, watching videos, and browsing your character's main discussion thread to see how other players view the game. There's plenty of bad examples online though, so don't take other peoples' analysis or perspectives as law. Beyond that, here are some posts from the last page that address this area:

No offense, but if you haven't found it I don't think you are looking very hard. For example, one of the stickies next to this one is a thread labeled "Drastic Improvement". And here is a google search you can use to find more: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site:smashboards.com improve

All I'm really going to tell you is not to get too upset because the phase you are in now is normal, and nearly everyone goes through it, if not playing Melee, then when they play other games, other sports, or even doing other activities in life. You have been met with a challenge that may feel insurmountable even if you logically understand it isn't. At first this sucks, but then you overcome that obstacle. Then you overcome 2 more. Then you overcome an entire array of obstacles as you continue to improve. Thus, you will transform into a better competitor and likely a stronger individual in general. Here's a great starting point now that you are past the "learn how to play the game" phase and entering the "learn how to be good at the game" phase.

http://myneverendingbrainstorm.blogspot.com/2014/07/goals-in-ssbm-intro-to-player-vs-player.html

Really good video series I found for improving past "learn the advanced techniques": Sauce's Metagain

 

[Kip Smithers]

wish wolf was in melee

 

[Monkley6]

guys why is melee so hard

Okay real talk though: I'm playing my heart out each day, and there are times when I face dudes who are just flat out superior to me in everyway. They cycle through the cast, and even do mirrors with me and I still lose. My question is simple: how do I develop my mental skill? I'm not talking about tech skill to wd oos 50 times or understanding when it's safe to attack from the ledge. I mean the ability to analyze the situation and know what opportunities are good and what aren't, to see what puts me in a good situation and ultimately the ability to persevere no matter how many stocks or matches I'm down.

What do I do to train my brain for matches?

I've also found that slowing down a little bit and thinking about everything I'm doing in friendlies helps a lot. Don't let yourself go into autopilot and just start throwing out moves. Think about WHY you're doing it, and the consequences if it doesn't work out, and how you can change it so it's better for you maybe.

 

[Outthere]

I was watching a video earlier and D1 says, "For those of you that STILL don't know how to do it, crouch cancel grab is holding down and L or R and A." -I completely didn't know this at all. I've been following melee for over a year now and consider myself to know most of the technical game at this point, so it took my by surprise that I didn't know something so simple and obvious. This also happened when I learned that, at 100%, options from ledge change for the worse. Completely obvious, yet I'd never noticed it before a commentator pointed it out.

Has anyone ever had this happen to them before? Any that they'd like to share?

 

[CeLL]

What is the easiest way to unlock Mushroom Kingdom II? I know the unlock condition, but I have no clue how to go about getting one of those trophies.

I was watching a video earlier and D1 says, "For those of you that STILL don't know how to do it, crouch cancel grab is holding down and L or R and A." -I completely didn't know this at all. I've been following melee for over a year now and consider myself to know most of the technical game at this point, so it took my by surprise that I didn't know something so simple and obvious. This also happened when I learned that, at 100%, options from ledge change for the worse. Completely obvious, yet I'd never noticed it before a commentator pointed it out.

Has anyone ever had this happen to them before? Any that they'd like to share?

It took me about 6 months of competitive Brawl, and years of casual play before that, to learn about ledge rolling. I was so shocked that it existed I didn't have a clue about it.

 

[The Soap]

I meant to ask about this before, forgot about it, but just recently remembered so I'll ask it now. I was playing Fox vs. a computer Samus on Pokemon Stadium, on the fire transformation. I was on the right side of the tree, and Samus was to the right of me; she grabs me and f-throws me into the tree, I miss the tech and I fall straight through the stage to my death. Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before on PS? I looked it up and there seems to be a similar glitch on the grass transformation in Brawl, but I can't find anything for Melee.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yup its known that you can fall through the right side of the tree, but it isn't very common at all (I haven't seen it in years, honestly). A much easier and reproducible stage fall through is in between the two branches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMkGb3RxxYo

 

[CeLL]

How do you calculate hitlag?

 

[Kadano]

How do you calculate hitlag?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RP3sbS7Dm0

 

[Comet7]

How does catching items work? I've been playing smash for years now and I still don't know... lol

 

[Bones0]

How does catching items work? I've been playing smash for years now and I still don't know... lol

http://smashboards.com/threads/kada...data-application.337035/page-13#post-16365127

 

[Phan7om]

Players who have great movement/tech skill with their character but arent the best (Bizzaro, Jeapie, Dark, KJH come to mind for example) arent the best with their character because they lack something. What is it that they need work on?, and whatever that is would/could that extra movement potentially make them "better" than whoever is the best?

For Example if Dark could punish, mindgame, read, etc. just as effectively as Mango could he be better than him?

 

[Bones0]

This probably will come off as a confusing question that probably would take a whole page to answer thoughtfully but here i go anyway.

Players who have great movement/tech skill with their character but arent the best (Bizzaro, Jeapie, Dark, KJH come to mind for example) arent the best with their character because they lack something. What is it that they need work on?, and whatever that is would/could that extra movement potentially make them "better" than whoever is the best?

For Example if Dark could punish, mindgame, read, etc. just as effectively as Mango could he be better than him?

Obviously if Mango had Dark's tech skill he would be better. Tech skill is only a small aspect of the game though. The reason some people can have amazing tech skill and still perform poorly is because tech is a tool. You still need knowledge, experience, strategy, and great game sense to USE those tools effectively.

 

[Evoke]

definitely not as confusing as my matrices homework gohan

 

[Phan7om]

Idk i guess I dumbed down the question too much/asked it wrong. Ill ask again more to what I meant in my last question.

Those people that I've listed above have really good movement/tech skill, but of course they lack something that makes them a lot worse than the best. Actually forget Dark/KJH because with the 20XX theory and stuff I could see its use, focus more on Bizzaro/Jeapie in this example. My questions is what are they not doing, what uses for those "tools" are they missing? Is their tech "getting in the way?"

Probably a lot simpler a question than I originally thought, but the answer im looking for isnt like "They need to punish better" or anything like that unless im just overcomplicating this lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

This probably will come off as a confusing question that probably would take a whole page to answer thoughtfully but here i go anyway.

Players who have great movement/tech skill with their character but arent the best (Bizzaro, Jeapie, Dark, KJH come to mind for example) arent the best with their character because they lack something. What is it that they need work on?, and whatever that is would/could that extra movement potentially make them "better" than whoever is the best?

For Example if Dark could punish, mindgame, read, etc. just as effectively as Mango could he be better than him?

What makes one player better than another in games such as Hearthstone or Chess where speed of play isn't a large factor and turns involve mostly thinking time? I choose the term "decision making". The same thing applies to smash: it's normally not the overarching strategy that loses you the game, but poor decisions (like fighting sheik/marth at the edge). The better your decisions, the better your overall outcome, even if you are executing the same overall strategies.

Your next question will probably be something along the lines of: "what are better decisions and how do i make them?" The answer isn't very straight forward and you'll have to figure out the specifics through experience and observation. But the important part to remember is when you lose, don't say "my tech skill sucked", say "my decision making sucked". If you make good decisions, tech skill is [mostly] unnecessary.

 

[DualCats]

Could anyone offer advice on pivoting tilts? Particularly on utilt/dtilt. I'm not really sure what the input is technically supposed to look like. I would estimate that less than 5% of my attempted pivot utilts or dtilts are successful; they generally end up being pivot jabs or angled ftilts (and often shorthops in the case of utilt attempts).

 

[Xyzz]

Chess where speed of play isn't a large factor

Give bullet chess a shot someday :D

And the 'speed of play' in chess is the speed of getting to a good decision. It's largely ineffectual in Heartstone, but the quality of play in a 2h per person game is vastly superior to say a 30minute per person match

 

[Dapplegonger]

Back when items were legal early on in the days of Melee, were all items legal or just certain items. If the latter is true, what were the items lists like? Also, what stages used to commonly be legal (like Mute City)? I want to add some variety to my play aside from just the modern tournament legal rulesets, but I still want to do something that at least used to be considered fair.

EDIT: To avoid a double post, I'll just post this unrelated topic here.
How do you SHFFL u-airs? Whenever I try, I end up either doing a full-hop or a double jump. Is there any easy way to do this?

 

[Evoke]

jump with x/y and/or c stick your uair

 

[Bones0]

Back when items were legal early on in the days of Melee, were all items legal or just certain items. If the latter is true, what were the items lists like? Also, what stages used to commonly be legal (like Mute City)? I want to add some variety to my play aside from just the modern tournament legal rulesets, but I still want to do something that at least used to be considered fair.

EDIT: To avoid a double post, I'll just post this unrelated topic here.
How do you SHFFL u-airs? Whenever I try, I end up either doing a full-hop or a double jump. Is there any easy way to do this?

There's no items, but if you want some more variety for some laid back fun matches, try Cactuar Stamina Pancake.

There's no "easy" way. Personally, I just tilt up+A when SHFFLing uairs. Some people use the C-stick (how they get to it in time is beyond me), and then of course you have people who are able to SH with the stick (making it way easier to C-stick the uair). Some people also claw Y/X (use their index finger) which also allows for easy C-stick pressing after jumps.

 

[otter]

why do people sometimes use shield breaker as an edgeguard instead of f smash?

 

[Kadano]

why do people sometimes use shield breaker as an edgeguard instead of f smash?

More active frames (6 vs. 4 frames)
Quicker from release (5 vs. 8 frames)
Less lag after release (33 vs. 45 frames)
Can be charged longer, thus covers some recovery stalling
Grows stronger than fsmash
Hitbubbles reach further behind him, so quick recoveries like Illusion / Phantasm are less likely to warp through.

Only downsides imho:
1. More startup until charge (11 vs. 3 frames)(usually not a problem)
2. Slightly less downward reach
3. Weaker when in low charging levels

 

[Dapplegonger]

There's no items, but if you want some more variety for some laid back fun matches, try Cactuar Stamina Pancake.

Well I know items are banned now, as are many stages, but I saw in the Smash Documentary that several items used to be legal, as well as stages like Mute City and PokéFloats. I was just wondering what some of those old item and stage lists used to look like.

And btw, I tried that Cactuar Stamina Pancake thing out with my brother, it was pretty fun. I'd heard of it, but I never knew what it was.

 

[otter]

More active frames (6 vs. 4 frames)
Quicker from release (5 vs. 8 frames)
Less lag after release (33 vs. 45 frames)
Can be charged longer, thus covers some recovery stalling
Grows stronger than fsmash
Hitbubbles reach further behind him, so quick recoveries like Illusion / Phantasm are less likely to warp through.

Only downsides imho:
1. More startup until charge (11 vs. 3 frames)(usually not a problem)
2. Slightly less downward reach
3. Weaker when in low charging levels

awesome, thank you. I pretty much only see it used as an occasional edgeguard. Do you think it has other practical uses?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Back when items were legal early on in the days of Melee, were all items legal or just certain items. If the latter is true, what were the items lists like? Also, what stages used to commonly be legal (like Mute City)? I want to add some variety to my play aside from just the modern tournament legal rulesets, but I still want to do something that at least used to be considered fair.

I don't remember the full list of items banned, but I know bob-ombs and stars were. I know pokeballs and food were legal. Items were already banned when I started playing competitively.

And historically speaking, it was only the west coast that used items in tournament. EC was 5 stock FD only, WC was 3 stock w/ items and [almost] all stages. When the coasts started competing against each other, EC wouldn't accept a win by WC with items and WC wouldn't accept a win by EC on FD only. EC won the item war but WC kinda won the stage war.

As for stages, there were some early tournaments that only turned off things like Flat Zone and IC mountain. I don't think Hyrule was banned at first. Then the stages where excessive camping and stage hazards interrupted the match (Big Blue, Brinstar Depths, Yoshi's Island 64, and Great Bay, among others) too much were removed. This slowly turned into a 'neutral' vs 'counterpick' mentality, where the non-neutral stages were seen as worse by most of the community and slowly removed from the game for balance purposes.

 

[Bones0]

Well I know items are banned now, as are many stages, but I saw in the Smash Documentary that several items used to be legal, as well as stages like Mute City and PokéFloats. I was just wondering what some of those old item and stage lists used to look like.

And btw, I tried that Cactuar Stamina Pancake thing out with my brother, it was pretty fun. I'd heard of it, but I never knew what it was.

I was saying CSP doesn't have items on in the ruleset. As far as what items used to be legal, you probably won't be able to find much, and there certainly wasn't a standard ruleset back when items were legal. You'd play with whatever items the TO said you should. lol I think the types that were banned most often were Bob-ombs, Heart Containers, Starman, mushrooms, and pretty much anything that made it really unfair. It was more stuff like beam swords and star rods that people tried to keep legal.

 

[Kadano]

awesome, thank you. I pretty much only see it used as an occasional edgeguard. Do you think it has other practical uses?

In PAL, it’s sometimes useful in a combo after a fair (our dair sucks, remember?). I also view it mainly as an edgeguarding tool. Because of the sluggish startup lag, it’s too risky to try breaking weak shields with it.

 

[AlphaQHard]

I hear some people say try not to roll in competitive. do they mean shield roll or tech roll?

I hear you can use your double jump as youre about to get meteor smashed. Supposedly that helps you not get meteor smashed as far. is this true?

 

[otter]

I hear some people say try not to roll in competitive. do they mean shield roll or tech roll?

I hear you can use your double jump as youre about to get meteor smashed. Supposedly that helps you not get meteor smashed as far. is this true?

Shield Roll. It's not that you shouldnt ever use it, but since weaker players are notorious for using it as a crutch, you should avoid using it until you are capable of moving where you want without it. Good players will just in one spot and wait for you to roll and then hit you during the recovery.

I think people meant that you can jump AFTER being hit by the meteor smash. its different than a true spike.

 

[Bones0]

I hear some people say try not to roll in competitive. do they mean shield roll or tech roll?

I hear you can use your double jump as youre about to get meteor smashed. Supposedly that helps you not get meteor smashed as far. is this true?

Usually people are referring to regular rolls, especially when someone is trapped in their shield near the ledge. Prime example of what happens to people who roll in predictably (3:54:22):

As long as they aren't expecting or waiting to react to your roll, it can be a great tool that totally reverses stage control. Just make sure you are consciously using it instead of habitually using it out of fear. Techrolling in is also a common habit people have because they are instinctively trying to get as far away from the edge as possible, so like with anything, you have to be unpredictable or else the opponent will keep expecting you to techroll in.

Meteor smashes are moves that spike you downwards, but unlike a traditional spike, you get sent flying straight down whereas true spikes (Marth's and Falco's dair primarily) send you slightly to the side. When you get hit by a meteor smash, you can cancel the KB with a DJ or up-B after a small period of time (I think it's 20 frames [1/3rd of a second], but not sure on that). I'm pretty sure even CPUs meteor cancel so to see what it looks like, just test it on them. Here are just a few of the characters with a meteor spike for a dair: Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Samus, DK, Ness, and Kirby. There are also some non-dair meteors like Mario's fair, IC's fair, and even Doc's usmash (which is only a meteor on grounded opponents).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Rolls are good. They are invincible and you move to favorable position. But if the opponent understands why you want to roll and waits for it, you will end up looking very foolish.