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[CeLL]

I have downloaded the 20xx hackpack but don't know how to set it up so that it flashes red and white when practicing l cancelling.

Debug Menu (below Melee) -> Gameplay Codes -> L Cancel

 

[Ridel]

Any Idea where i can pick up a said crt on the cheap?

If there is a local Yard Sale in your area, then I would go check it out they seem to go quite cheap there.

 

[switchedflip]

Debug Menu (below Melee) -> Gameplay Codes -> L Cancel

Thanks good sir

If there is a local Yard Sale in your area, then I would go check it out they seem to go quite cheap there.

I will be sure to check that out

 

[CeLL]

What causes Fox not to be able to tech Falco's dthrow?

 

[Kadano]

What causes Fox not to be able to tech Falco's dthrow?

http://smashboards.com/posts/1714568/
I think that’s the best information available on that phenomenon.

Also, the dthrow on Fox is a chaingrab until ~36%. Starting at ~36% before throw, Falco needs to dash → JC grab in case Fox DI’s away (which would escape the standing grab). If Fox DI’s towards, a standing grab (without turning) will catch him.
Fox can shine your grab by holding down.

SDI is impossible for Fox whatsoever.

Note that this is only true in NTSC. In PAL, Fox is slightly lighter, which alters the throw animation’s speed and gives him the opportunity to tech.

 

[Bones0]

http://smashboards.com/posts/1714568/
I think that’s the best information available on that phenomenon.

Also, the dthrow on Fox is a chaingrab until ~36%. Starting at ~36% before throw, Falco needs to dash → JC grab in case Fox DI’s away (which would escape the standing grab). If Fox DI’s towards, a standing grab (without turning) will catch him.

SDI is impossible for Fox whatsoever.

Note that this is only true in NTSC. In PAL, Fox is slightly lighter, which alters the throw animation’s speed and gives him the opportunity to tech.

The post said the soonest you can act is 6 frames after Falco is actionable. Wouldn't that mean Fox could shine out of the CG? If it's really guaranteed until 30%, I'm about to start practicing it... lol I had tested dthrow combos in Training Mode, but I didn't really trust them because it seemed like humans can just landing cancel with ASDI down.

 

[Kadano]

The post said the soonest you can act is 6 frames after Falco is actionable. Wouldn't that mean Fox could shine out of the CG? If it's really guaranteed until 30%, I'm about to start practicing it... lol I had tested dthrow combos in Training Mode, but I didn't really trust them because it seemed like humans can just landing cancel with ASDI down.

Okay, you’re right. He can shine out if he does it frame-perfect and holds down for ASDI.

Still, I think this pseudo-chaingrab is one of these things which are good to try and only stop doing them if your opponent starts doing the correct counter.

If he does that, you can still shine him first until something like 15% damage (even if he holds away).

I guess dthrow has some mixup potential between regrab and shine. If he DI’s down or in, you can shine him. If he DI’s away, you can regrab him.

 

[Bones0]

Okay, you’re right. He can shine out if he does it frame-perfect and holds down for ASDI.

Still, I think this pseudo-chaingrab is one of these things which are good to try and only stop doing them if your opponent starts doing the correct counter.

If he does that, you can still shine him first until something like 15% damage (even if he holds away).

I guess dthrow has some mixup potential between regrab and shine. If he DI’s down or in, you can shine him. If he DI’s away, you can regrab him.

Whoops, nvm. Didn't realize we were talking about DI down vs. away. Any chance you could test dthrow dtilt/dsmash combo %s? My notes have dthrow dtilt working starting at 23%.

 

[Hunybear]

Can anyone link me to a comprehensive tech chase guide.

 

[Bones0]

Can anyone link me to a comprehensive tech chase guide.

There's no such thing.

 

[CeLL]

How should I be angling my shield in a game, or is it really complicated?

 

[Bones0]

How should I be angling my shield in a game, or is it really complicated?

There are only really two reasons to angle your shield:
1. Cover a part of your body that will be poked otherwise. If an opponent is likely to attack your feet, angling your shield down can protect you better. You can light shield to achieve a similar effect, but you will have more shield stun and may not want the additional pushback.
2. Enter shield stun earlier in the move. If an opponent is coming down on top of you and already has a hitbox out, angling your shield upwards can allow you to enter shield stun slightly earlier (relative to them landing) which gives you better frame advantage. As a side bonus, it can also mess up FF timings occasionally if they try to FF after the aerial is out but before they are within range of your shield (you cannot FF during hitlag).

 

[tauKhan]

@ CeLL Another reason to angle shields would be getting easy shield asdi. For example, when doing the marth killer, you hold stick to force you off the edge. You don't really care about the angling in most cases, but holding the asdi input pre-emptively causes angling as well, so that could qualify as a reason to angle shield.

I generally shield asdi towards the opponent when expecting a punishable move on my shield, so that I can be closer to the opponent. For instance, you can shield grab raptor boost with many of the top tiers if you asdi, but cannot if you don't asdi.

Also a specific case where you want to angle shield down is if you are shielding on a plat and don't have near full shield. It is generally very easy for competent players to purposively shield stab your feet.

 

[M.C.Jeducation]

I've been looking at some frame data for different characters on smashboards. I've learned some interesting things but for the most part i dont know what to make it. What can I learn from frame data and how do I go about using what I've learned in gameplay?

 

[Sef]

What's the best way to ledge drop? Is C-stick down OK to use?

Because, basically, earlier this year I started playing Project M, and in that I got into the habit of ledge dropping with the C-stick. And when I've been playing Melee, that habit's carried over. But sometimes, in Melee, if I ledge drop with C-stick down, and try to immediately double jump, I down air. Not sure why it's happening (it seems to be a specific timing, maybe it's reading my input twice? Any idea what this could be?) And it costs me a stock, so it's a pretty bad problem.

Now I've been practicing stuff involving ledge dropping (ledge dashing, etc) and the random down airs seem to be happening less often. I definitely feel more comfortable ledge dropping with C-stick down, but getting a down air feels kind of random, and it always makes me SD. So I'm not sure if I should just start ledge dropping with the control stick and get used to that, or just keep practicing with C-stick down.

Are there any other players that ledge drop with C-stick down? And anyone know what's causing my random down airs and how to stop them (I'd prefer not to change the way I ledge drop, because other ways of ledge dropping have other problems).

 

[Bones0]

What's the best way to ledge drop? Is C-stick down OK to use?

Because, basically, earlier this year I started playing Project M, and in that I got into the habit of ledge dropping with the C-stick. And when I've been playing Melee, that habit's carried over. But sometimes, in Melee, if I ledge drop with C-stick down, and try to immediately double jump, I down air. Not sure why it's happening (it seems to be a specific timing, maybe it's reading my input twice? Any idea what this could be?) And it costs me a stock, so it's a pretty bad problem.

Now I've been practicing stuff involving ledge dropping (ledge dashing, etc) and the random down airs seem to be happening less often. I definitely feel more comfortable ledge dropping with C-stick down, but getting a down air feels kind of random, and it always makes me SD. So I'm not sure if I should just start ledge dropping with the control stick and get used to that, or just keep practicing with C-stick down.

Are there any other players that ledge drop with C-stick down? And anyone know what's causing my random down airs and how to stop them (I'd prefer not to change the way I ledge drop, because other ways of ledge dropping have other problems).

I ledgedrop with C-stick when I scar jump. Just make sure you go straight down because if you angle it a little to the left or right it can count as 2 inputs and you aerial.

 

[tauKhan]

@ Sef As @ Bones0 said, if you don't input straigth down cardinal direction, a dair will happen always (at least on my controller). I don't know why this happens. If you instead drop by c-stick away, it takes more complicated input to result in a bair, which seems pretty weird. Maybe it's just my controller though, but you could try c-stick away, that's what I used to do.

I think it's a lot easier to do ledgedashes by dropping with controlstick, and I switched to that after I started doing them, so unless you claw, it might be easier to you to just switch to control stick dropping. Other option might be to make a smaller input with the c-stick, I think dropping has a much lower threshold than aerials.

 

[Sef]

@ Sef As @ Bones0 said, if you don't input straigth down cardinal direction, a dair will happen always (at least on my controller). I don't know why this happens. If you instead drop by c-stick away, it takes more complicated input to result in a bair, which seems pretty weird. Maybe it's just my controller though, but you could try c-stick away, that's what I used to do.

I think it's a lot easier to do ledgedashes by dropping with controlstick, and I switched to that after I started doing them, so unless you claw, it might be easier to you to just switch to control stick dropping. Other option might be to make a smaller input with the c-stick, I think dropping has a much lower threshold than aerials.

Dropping with the control causes problems for me too though. I've also been messing around with Yoshi's up B ledge stall, and unless I'm really precise with my inputs, ledge dropping with control stick away also causes me to SD (I assume it's because I have to let the control stick return to neutral before I double jump, otherwise I double jump away from the ledge, throw the egg too far away from the ledge, and miss the sweetspot).

I guess I just need to keep practicing until I find something I'm comfortable with

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, I also used it for Yoshi's egg stall back when I was messing around with him. I would just C-stick down, then tap jump, then time the B press. I never got super good at it, but for how little I practiced it I was pretty consistent. I virtually never dair anymore so I wouldn't worry about it causing SDs after you're well versed with the method.

 

[Sef]

Yeah, I also used it for Yoshi's egg stall back when I was messing around with him. I would just C-stick down, then tap jump, then time the B press. I never got super good at it, but for how little I practiced it I was pretty consistent. I virtually never dair anymore so I wouldn't worry about it causing SDs after you're well versed with the method.

yea, I've been messing around with both methods now and I've got a bit more consistent with both. I feel like I should stick to control stick away for ledgedashing, though. It's not worth risking a down air SD when dropping with control stick away has no risk of SDing at all (unless I airdodge offstage obviously, but that can happen if I drop with the C-stick too).

If I do stick with Yoshi, it doesn't seem like there's a 'better way' to do the ledge stall, though. From what I can see, every single method involves precise inputs that make me SD if I mess up. I guess the only way for this is a lot of practice. I think I'll ask the Yoshi boards how they do it...

 

[tauKhan]

@ Sef I tried this a bit myself, and I there's no risk of dair if you let go with a light c-stick down input (tap about halfway through to the controller frame). Interestingly, I switched away from c-stick dropping when I wanted to learn edge eggs. I just tap down, immediately dj with x and time the up b. I don't like tap jumping there, because the upb must be precisely timed after drop dj, and I think it's easier to get the timing right between two button inputs with the same hand.

 

[Bones0]

yea, I've been messing around with both methods now and I've got a bit more consistent with both. I feel like I should stick to control stick away for ledgedashing, though. It's not worth risking a down air SD when dropping with control stick away has no risk of SDing at all (unless I airdodge offstage obviously, but that can happen if I drop with the C-stick too).

If I do stick with Yoshi, it doesn't seem like there's a 'better way' to do the ledge stall, though. From what I can see, every single method involves precise inputs that make me SD if I mess up. I guess the only way for this is a lot of practice. I think I'll ask the Yoshi boards how they do it...

I don't see any benefit to using C-stick ledgedrops for ledgedashes since it'd be extremely hard to tap jump and get a consistently good waveland angle.

When you practice ledgedashing with Yoshi, make sure you do it (at least some of the time) on BF. I use away on the control stick to ledgedrop before ledgedashes and it's no problem, but with certain characters it can make it more likely to DJ under the stage (Yoshi, Samus, Ness, etc). Definitely try out tilting down to ledgedrop to avoid SDing on BF. I don't use it because it doesn't affect my mains and it just feels weirder, but I had a phase where I tried tilting down to release and I was able to ledgedash just fine without worrying about SDing when I played Yoshi. If I played him just messing around today, I'd probably still be able to do the tilt down release decently enough.

 

[Sef]

I don't see any benefit to using C-stick ledgedrops for ledgedashes since it'd be extremely hard to tap jump and get a consistently good waveland angle.

When you practice ledgedashing with Yoshi, make sure you do it (at least some of the time) on BF. I use away on the control stick to ledgedrop before ledgedashes and it's no problem, but with certain characters it can make it more likely to DJ under the stage (Yoshi, Samus, Ness, etc). Definitely try out tilting down to ledgedrop to avoid SDing on BF. I don't use it because it doesn't affect my mains and it just feels weirder, but I had a phase where I tried tilting down to release and I was able to ledgedash just fine without worrying about SDing when I played Yoshi. If I played him just messing around today, I'd probably still be able to do the tilt down release decently enough.

Oh, when I was dropping with the C-stick, I wasn't tap jumping to immediately double jump, I was using X. Though come to think of it that's probably not a good idea because of how awkward it is to ledge drop and then double jump with X in a small frame window (since I have a normal controller grip).

But I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with the control stick, so eh. Dropping with the C stick doesn't seem to have any advantage in Melee, at least from what I can see.

And I haven't actually tried control stick down. It seemed too easy to immediately fast fall, though I'll try that out.

 

[Death Arcana]

does anyone know if theres a thread explaining the edge slide off after a tech roll?
or how to do it?

 

[Kadano]

does anyone know if theres a thread explaining the edge slide off after a tech roll?
or how to do it?

Magus thread with a list of techs that always¹ slide off: http://smashboards.com/threads/detailed-throws-techs-and-getups-frame-data.206469/

Video explanation on latent momentum that can cause slipping for every roll if it is of sufficient size: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkdPVUlrSOo&t=12m

¹If the latent horizontal momentum is stronger than the tech’s end momentum and operates in the opposite direction, you actually don’t slip off.

 

[T0RN]

Help stickywalking?

 

[Kadano]

 

[datyvk]

Learned to L-cancel on some character by muscle memory rather than when the character hits the ground, missing some l-cancel in some situation now(different jump hitting shield etc), any tips?(I use middle finger on R if it makes a different)

 

[ManoxMano]

try practicing against a bunch of Ice climbers CPUs. Hitting one or more will change the timing of when you have to L-cancel
L-cancel at different jump heights (short hop, full hop, double jump, running off a platform etc)

 

[tauKhan]

Learn to input l-cancel before you land on visual cue. Practice on hits and whiffs, different fall speeds/ trajectories etc. Grind it a lot in short bursts (maybe 5 minutes at one go, I'm not an expert on this one), concentrating only on getting the cancel, and when you miss, think how/why you missed it.

 

[Suudsu]

I've noticed that when wavedashing forward off a platform, you can avoid entering your teeter animation by shielding as you approach the edge. I've never heard of this being used, so I assume there must be a better way to avoid teetering. What would it be?

 

[tauKhan]

Just hold forward on the control stick.

 

[Cubonebonebone]

So I'm pretty inexperienced with melee and I had a question about l canceling. Do pro's l cancel everything? If not what do they not l cancel? Obviously they would l cancel moves with tons of landing lag but is it just not worth it to l cancel moves with little lag?

 

[Xyzz]

Experienced players l-cancel virtually everything. There isn't a point to not l cancel. Just practice till it's not a button you have to think about pressing but rather something you just automatically do when you are about to hit the ground.

There's no downside to it, except the requirement to hit the button at the correct time; so why wouldn't you want to do it? (Oh and try to learn it with z or soft pressing L/R, so you don't use your tech window)

 

[Cubonebonebone]

Experienced players l-cancel virtually everything. There isn't a point to not l cancel. Just practice till it's not a button you have to think about pressing but rather something you just automatically do when you are about to hit the ground.

There's no downside to it, except the requirement to hit the button at the correct time; so why wouldn't you want to do it? (Oh and try to learn it with z or soft pressing L/R, so you don't use your tech window)

When you say soft pressing you mean pushing the shoulder button untill right before the button is pressed right?
I had no idea you couldnt tech without pressing the shoulder all the way :O thanks!

 

[tauKhan]

@ Cubonebonebone IIRC the threshold to inputting l-cancel is slightly higher than the the lightest lightshield input. You don't have to press even halfway in to l-cancel.

 

[twopercent]

So yeah I'm currently on house arrest. I can leave for work and school (and like 2 hours of leisure time per week) but other than that I'm stuck at home. As a result, I've been gaming quite a bit. Decided to pick up melee again. I've been practicing against bots (i.e. level 9 computers) and working on tech skills in training mode, but I'm wondering if there's some other better way to practice that I haven't tapped into yet.

TLDR what's the best way to practice when you have no human opponents to play?

-2%

 

[Kadano]

So yeah I'm currently on house arrest. I can leave for work and school (and like 2 hours of leisure time per week) but other than that I'm stuck at home. As a result, I've been gaming quite a bit. Decided to pick up melee again. I've been practicing against bots (i.e. level 9 computers) and working on tech skills in training mode, but I'm wondering if there's some other better way to practice that I haven't tapped into yet.

TLDR what's the best way to practice when you have no human opponents to play?

-2%

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...re-alt-stages-costumes-new-debug-menu.351221/

 

[twopercent]

post

alright thanks, i'll look into that.

 

[Ozai Firelord]

Im a marth main and I really struggle with approach. I know his fair is good but is there anything else that I should know