Possible new AT. Spin Sliding. Now paired with Dash Delay.

[Tommy_G]

I had this thread bumped from a few months ago. I did it actually like a week or so after the game officially came out, seeing as I had it before then for a while, but looked over it like how a lot of you looked over this thread....besides I wasn't very good at it a long time ago.

Spin sliding is a weird animation where you get a extra boost of speed when you spin while walking if done with the right timing. It can cancel into anything giving characters sliding smash attacks or sliding grabs. Maybe this can be used for mindgames (Kinda like how dash dancing did) and such or maybe it's something useless.

Feed back please, and I did screw up quite a bit in the video. I got a few good slides though. Some spin slides for certain characters go faster than running. Less running = less tripping, which is always a good thing.

Edit: When I say slide, I mean right when the character spins, not when it is into a charging smash attack.
Spin Sliding only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LblsuBC2i8

Dash Delay:

This technique might not seem useful at first, but it adds in a mind game effect in the sense that you can practically do anything out of this. The delay time can tell you whether you should punish a roll, sidestep dodge, a shield, or it can space attack and slide in with a counter. You can Up-B, Side-B, jump, and grab directly out of the initial dashing animation (possibly a jump cancelled up-smash too, but I haven't tried it) and are able to do anything out of it towards them and have a pivot sliding attack effect to it. It seems to help characters with good pivot grabs. Link I used because I know he has a good pivot slide with the side tilt, Falco is my main, and Marth is too good with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCA5hTvZIYM

 

[Pabs]

A bit old. Really useful w/ Link and his ftilt.

 

[Bud]

It has uses, but is known.

 

[Tommy_G]

This isn't a Craqwalk(I hate that stupid name) Why don't people post it if it's known. I have not seen it once. W/e make what you will of it.

 

[thesultan2112]

it's the same as the whole boost thread stuff (i forgot the reall thread list, if yoiu just search it you will find it), justt without the usful parts i.e the turn and the grab,

 

[Jewdo]

Reminds me slightly of the Pivot Slide. The Pivot Slide used two rapid pivots to slide attacks forward, but I don't remember anyone pointing out that it could be used as an alternative movement method. I'll double-check, but I think you might have something here. Whether a new use for an old mechanics exploit or a new technique entirely, I'll wait until I see an input method to decide.

*edit: Here's information on the Pivot Slide for reference.

- Pivot Sliding
How to Perform: See picture at http://trashpile.net/upload/pivotslide.gif
Effect: Character slides forward visibly and performs the move you entered on the pivot. This can be any smash (via c-stick) or a Tilt (just press A after the pivot).
Video: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=t6jdzQteqiA
OP: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160785

 

[Tommy_G]

There are no dash attacks or dashes for that matter at all. The spin slows down the walk but if you time it right, moving back towards the initial direction has the game make the character catch up to where they would be if they didn't turn. Seeing as it can go into anything. Sliding Charging smashes to wait for sidestep dodges, grabs for shield spammers, retreating grabs(reverse pivot grab away from them) for aggro people. I can't see how this isn't a mind game or technical trick (more mindgame though) except for the start up time is a slight bit slow, but you can aerial into it(start up animation can be during an aerial just to get that speed of a full walk).

Edit: Looks like a pivot slide just multiple times. Hmm who knows. Haven't see pivot sliding on here before . I guess I missed that technique on that thread, but it still speeds up walking speeds and has mindgame potential. I'm going to practice with it, but I don't have people to practice with until next week :-/

 

[edddddie]

that looks really cool

 

[acv]

this is kind of good but does it work that well with all characters, or just luigi?

 

[Jewdo]

I've tried this myself now.

The input is simply starting a walk and doing a Pivot Slide out of it, or starting a Pivot Slide and doing several more in a row. Spin Sliding/Pivot Slide Walking can pretty much be called a fancy walk, as it has all of the benefits of a regular walk (do any attack, suddenly dash in either direction, turn or stop on a dime, can be Crawl Dashed, etc).

Mechanically, it has no advantage over regular walking - there is nothing you can do during a Spin Slide/Pivot Slide Walk that you can't do while walking, and based on your description, it isn't faster than walking either. If the character just catches up to the point they would have been without the interruption, then no net speed gain is present - only a short period of abnormally fast speed. Any attack you perform from a Pivot Slide will still finish at the same location as if you had just continued walking and performed the attack. The attack just slides between the point of the pivot and the intended target area. Though it may seem like an advantage in approaching (attack moves through more space), it only gives the opponent more frames to react to your attack if they stay put. You started your attack farther away, so the hitbox needs to cover a greater distance before it can damage your opponent.

What sets this apart from regular walking is that every turn/spin is a possible fake-out for some players. "Is he going to turn around, or warp forward? Dash? Stop? Attack?" For those who don't understand the Pivot Slide or its mechanics, this is an aggravating trip. However, nothing is stopping you from doing any of those things from a normal walk, so players who understand this will not be phased. It's a mindgame that will catch a newbie or impulsive player off-guard, but not anyone with an intimate knowledge of the game. They'll know to wait for you to get near, then shield/sidestep/jump, and punish or escape you as they see fit. Patient players will be most successful in dealing with fake-out approaches like this.

Sorry if I'm ranting a lot or just not making any sense. It's late here where I am, and I'm probably going to edit this tomorrow morning or so after I've had a good night's rest. Thanks for the new info, sorry if I'm being a jerk, and I'll see you all tomorrow.

*edit: It's tomorrow. I've edited my post for clarity, so disregard the above paragraph.

 

[Tommy_G]

Seeing you are able to dash attack out of it, you can also dash grab if they shield spam or reverse pivot grab. Reverse pivot grabs scare people into sidestep dodging early and they usually get caught or you can reverse pivot grab away from them if they run at you. It's weird and I'm wondering if this has any potential.

Edit: I needed some sleep too I know this is faster than regular walking. If you are able to pivot slide over and over again, the period where the character slows down turns into the walking speed. So it's really a walking speed->boost from pivot->walking speed, etc. If there was no boost of speed, I would just think this was a funny spin. Playing against people who sit back and camp as well as people using it incorrectly would obviously get punished for it, but just like Wavedashing and L-canceling; we all were punished when were learning how to do them.

 

[Jewdo]

I don't think Spin-Sliding is any faster than walking. I tested this with Link and Luigi, two characters with noticeable Pivot Slide range and speed. I walked from left to right while a Jigglypuff did a d-taunt, then did spin-sliding from left to right while Jigglypuff did a d-taunt. The reason for the d-taunt is that it has distinct beginning and ending sound, and thus could be used as a reliable measure for the same amount of time passing. I was always able to travel further before the d-taunt ended by walking than I could by spin-sliding. Still, the possibility existed that I'm not as good at it as you, so I checked out the video.

In the video posted above, Luigi travels from the left edge of the stage to where DK is standing between 0:13 and 0:16. He travels the same distance between 0:16 and 0:18 by walking, then again between 0:19.5 and 0:21.5/0:22. Yes, Luigi's speed while sliding is faster than walking, but his speed while doing the spin is much slower, bringing the net speed of long-distance travel down. Even if the time spent spinning were perfectly minimized, I believe the resulting speed of long-distance spin-sliding would be the same as a long-distance walk.

I think the Pivot Slide is best for a one-time speed boost, not a fast-travel substitute for walking. Doing a Pivot Grab forward is certainly useful (nice range extension), but I would prefer to do it out of one spin, not several, for optimum speed.

 

[nightSN]

good for the mind games, im sure everyone has done it before, thanks for confirming it with us though (: and im sure only the "slippery" chars can do this

 

[Tommy_G]

Actually I've noticed Fox, Falco, and Wolf do it pretty well too. It's really nice for spacing because you can stop and move back quickly and still be able to act unlike rolling. Luigi's isn't too different from his walk but he is exceptionally slide-y so I thought it would help. I've never seen anyone do it yet, btw.

It wouldn't be amazingly intelligent to spin from far away because you'll get hit with projectiles, but turning away to space and having the spin add speed to cover the distance before lag ends to get to them and hit them is pretty nice.

 

[Emperor Time]

I did it for a while and stopped. I guess i'll try again.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

this could confuse some ppl, sometimes, i guess...

 

[suzuki brawl]

hey very nice,at the first time I thought it was useless but its a cool AT

 

[ph00tbag]

Why don't people post it if it's known. I have not seen it once. W/e make what you will of it.

Some people don't need to post their "AT"s on the SWF to validate themselves. They just use them, and the techniques spread.

 

[suzuki brawl]

this At is good cause it cancel the runnning into a sliding smash atk

 

[St. Viers]

it's a movement trick, that is occasionally useful...but isn't this pretty much just shell-shifting or whatever squirtles thing is? If so, it could be useful if you can cancel the turnaround slidy momentum with an up=smash, making it another means of travelling while charging a smash >__>

 

[chic]

how do you do this?

 

[Tommy_G]

Look up pivot sliding on the technique thread and repeat the motions over and over again for the desired direction.

I think I might have found some kind of a moon walk thing too. If you spin slide and quickly jolt the control stick the opposite direction , the character jumps forward but doesn't go anywhere but maybe a little bit of distance. It's at least 1/3 less than a "fox trot" distance. If you tilt the control stick back after this dash animation, you will slide just like the slides from a normal pivot slide. I will get a video up when I can.

 

[Gmoney]

FL is breaking the game. Wut? Keep at it, Tommy G.

 

[SketchHurricane]

FL is breaking the game. Wut? Keep at it, Tommy G.

Well, I don't really see why you would want to slide backwards in a dash animation, what's the point? Probably looks mad cool though.

The spin sliding thing is a bit much too. You can just walk forward, the speed difference is just not that significant. What I have found though, is that this can be a nice little fake out from time to time. I tried it in a match using Link. You can walk forward, spin slide just out of range for a little stutter step of sorts to make them whiff, the slide in with an attack.

Keep messin with it though peeps, you might find some stuff.

 

[Tommy_G]

Bump for the Waltzing thread....I hate that name. It's just ugly.

 

[redgreenblue]

You realize there is a thread with a technique identical to this one on Brawl Tactical as well? Jeez this is pointless.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Well, I don't really see why you would want to slide backwards in a dash animation, what's the point? Probably looks mad cool though.

The spin sliding thing is a bit much too. You can just walk forward, the speed difference is just not that significant. What I have found though, is that this can be a nice little fake out from time to time. I tried it in a match using Link. You can walk forward, spin slide just out of range for a little stutter step of sorts to make them whiff, the slide in with an attack.

The point isn't the speed boost-- the point is the SLIDE. Which allows you to, for instance, charge smash attacks while you approach your opponent via the little slide. If you can charge smash attacks during a regular walk then you know something we don't.

 

[D. Disciple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bBMnEVgruE hehehehe. Look at the date, known this for awhile. Works well with characters that slide around a lot.

I do it at around 1:40 in the video.

 

[Tommy_G]

Computers do it all of the time. Doesn't mean they would notice it to put it on smashboards and share with others....or maybe you're just greedy with possible mind game techniques. Either way I want to see this game evolve which means I'm going to share the stuff I find.

 

[D. Disciple]

Nah, I was gonna mention it on the Fox boards back then, but forgot about it. Since I really don't play Fox, and was only able to do it whenever I played him or Falco. It just looked flashy to me, so I just brushed it aside.

 

[BrawlBro]

wow where did this dash delay come from? lol

It looks GREAT with marth im glad I happened to run across this. Hopefully this post will bump this up and get it noticed.

 

[The_NZA]

Lol, i second what sam panda said...I hope brawl's metagame is just us spinning like a bunch of *******.

 

[Sosuke]

This is what techniques are coming too...

 

[BrawlBro]

ive been messing around with dash delay im picking up on a couple things

dash delay to normal dash is useful mind game because its same animation diffirent spacing.

dash to delay walk leads to slow dash, easiest seen with marth, dash delay then act as if you would walk but instead your character dashes in a slower pace. I dont know how that could be useful but its an observation, Ill keep trying to mess with it.

Lastly I think it might only work with marth but dash delay to fsmash is awesome. You actually have to tap the control stick and A you cant C stick it. C stick causes dash attack, theres probably some directional reason that doing the charge up smash style works.