Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Um, sorry, but your singles numbers are off. Lucario maxes Aura at 170% regardless of stock.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1382/auramythtrainerinfinity.png Use this for even stock percents.

 

[RT]

Lol @ people getting mad from being called a nobody.

Unless you're top 5 with a character, YOU ARE A NOBODY.

It's not personal, it's the truth.

Either get better and get recognized or be quiet and deal with it.

As for Marth matchup, it's all about spacing. One of Marth's main focus is his spacing. Learn to space against his fair and fsmash. Recover intelligently, Marth has a pretty good edgwguard game. And don't get spiked.

 

[DrSoussou]

Um, sorry, but your singles numbers are off. Lucario maxes Aura at 170% regardless of stock.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1382/auramythtrainerinfinity.png Use this for even stock percents.

Yeah you're right, thanks. I was lazy and only tested with Aura Sphere charge because I assumed that the increments were the same for all moves. Apparently they're not, which is good to know. At least I got the aura sphere numbers right lol.

Too bad there's nothing on here about stock difference or team battles at all. Maybe I'll work on that in the next week or so, shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[iRJi]

I'm bad at videos but I can try to describe it. Basically you're going to start by moving forward in the air (holding forward). The inputs should then follow as such: tilt back on the control stick very slightly (basically go from holding forward to tilting the stick back into neutral position) and then very quickly perform a B-reverse forward. In other words, follow the tilt-to-neutral by pressing B while tilting it back to the full forward position.

Hold forward > tilt back to neutral > B > tilt back to full forward

The timing is very precise and the tilt sensitivity can also be very specific, but if you do it correctly you should wavebounce backwards while still facing forward. As with all wavebounce/b-reverse/turnaround-b tricks with Lucario's Aura Sphere, you can do this with both a charge or a release of Aura Sphere.

Tips for perfecting your training:
1. Turn off the volume and make your room quiet. This helps you hear the clicks of your controller inputs and reinforces your muscle memory when you do it correctly. In other words, you'll hear the correct sequence of clicks and remember the sound/feeling/timing of doing them when you get it right.
2. If you wavebounce perfectly, you should have no problem fitting in a wavebounce Aura Sphere immediately after a short-hopped Fair and before hitting the ground. Use this application to shorten your possible window of completion, and you will force yourself to get used to the speed and timing of the tech. This is also a very practical technique to use in combat, so give it a try regardless.
3. DON'T GIVE UP!! This can be frustrating, and after a million wiffs you're gonna start to hate Force Palm, but just slow it down, practice your tilting, and focus on the speed and delicacy of the inputs.

Good luck, hope you get it down! If you keep accidentally doing FP, you're either moving too far past the neutral position on your first tilt back, or you're inputting the B-reversal too slowly.

Hi guys, I'm DeLux and I write smash tutorials.

The "double B reversal" you are asking about is what is called "wavebouncing" or less often a "recoil special".

In order to do this, you have to combine both methods of turning around a special option. The two methods are:

Turn around special: Where one makes an analog stick input in the direction opposite of which they are facing before they input special button.

For example:

Analog back tap and release > Special button = Turn around Neutral special
Analog back tap and hold > Special button = Turn around Side Special
Analog back tap and/or hold down in reverse direction > down + special button = Turn around Down Special
Analog back tap and/or hold Up in reverse direction > Up + special Button = Turn around Up Special



The secondary method of turning around while performing a special is a "Reversal". This causes a player's momentum to shift in the completely opposite direction while turning around and performing the option.

For example:
Special button > Tap analog stick back = Neutral Special Reversal
Tap and/or hold analog stick in direction you are facing > Special Button > Tap Analog Stick Back = Side Special Reversal
Tap and/or hold analog stick in direction you are facing with down orientation > Special Button > Tap analog stick back = Down Special Reversal
Tap and/or hold analog stick in direction you are facing with up orientation > Special Button > Tap analog stick back = Up Special Reversal

It is important to note that the direction you tap the analog stick does not equal the direction your character will move and will is more inline with the direction they will face. It is not uncommon with a reversal to tap the control stick left only to have your character to reverse momentum to the right, especially if you were drifting backwards in compared to the direction your character was facing originally.


So in order to do the wavebounce, you combine the two:

Gently move control stick in reverse direction > Special input > tap control stick forward = Neutral Special Wave Bounce
Tap control stick back and hold > Special input > tap control stick forward = Side Special Wave Bounce
Tap control stick back and hold in downward orientation > Special input > tap control stick forward = Down Special Wave Bounce
Tap control stick back and hold in upward orientation > Special Input > Tap control stick forward = Up Special Wave Bounce

Remember, the reversal aspect of the special option is what causes the bounce back as it reverses momentum. So in order to bounce backwards, you want to retain as much of your forward momentum as possible with precise and efficient inputs prior to hitting special. Similarly, if you drift away while facing from someone, you can use the wave bounce to launch yourself back towards them. But in effect, the turn around special aspect makes you face backwards, and then the reversal aspect makes you turn around yet again (while shifting momentum) making you face the original direction.



If you input behind you with enough delicacy to not induce a run and hit grab, that is one way. If you buffer a control stick flick and a grab and release the grab button input within the buffer window to not cause a shield buffer, it will frame perfect turn around grab.

Very helpful. Thanks guys. I got it down, kinda. Just gotta practice it now.

Um, sorry, but your singles numbers are off. Lucario maxes Aura at 170% regardless of stock.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1382/auramythtrainerinfinity.png Use this for even stock percents.

I am pretty sure its 173 for max.

/shrug, I don't do this research anymore.

@RT.: Your wrong.

 

[RT]

About...?

 

[Sunnysunny]

About...?

Mmm I think he means the "You have to be in top 5" part. Top 5 doesn't mean much. You can not be in top 5 and still be freaking amazing. But yea, thats basically what I meant by "You're a nobody right now." I was told the same thing when I first started playing this game. I was cocky, vein, all that jazz. It wasn't until I humbled myself that I began to start learning and taking advice from other people to heart. I'm still not as good as I want to be.

I mean, i'm still cocky, but its somewhat warranted now. Somewhat.

Aww jeeze. I still gotta right that Marth MU right up. Alright, i'll get too it tonight and post here. Haha. Funny, yesterday I had a ton of friendlies with a Marth main I know. =w=

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557 It has the stock formulas and stuff too.

Also I don't see any increase beyond 170 on their chart either.

 

[sadpanda811]

again if anyone could get the numbers for the doubles with lucario and the stocks and everything that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[hichez50]

Why don't more lucario players use side-B B reversal. It allows use to punish uncommited reads while saving our FCAS.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Why don't more lucario players use side-B B reversal. It allows use to punish uncommited reads while saving our FCAS.

Isn't sideB pretty stupid easy to punish on whiff?

 

[hichez50]

At lower percents, but on the b reverse it could prove useful ecpecially at high percents when it does crazy knockback. And at higher percents you may not have the time/space to devote to charging another FCAS, but you retain some of the munervability.

 

[DrSoussou]

I only ever use it if I need a desperate B-reverse and don't wanna use my FCAS.

Its pretty dangerous, not a good offensive move and yes, easy to punish on whiff.

IMO

 

[hichez50]

What do you mean by punish on whiff(barley hitting?)

 

[Sunnysunny]

Whiffing is when you're just out of range from hitting your opponent.

Usually alot of lucario's moves are pretty safe on whiff, and can even be used to bait the opponent, but whiffing side b is just bad. ._.

 

[DrSoussou]

it has a lot of ending lag after the hitbox comes out, and that makes it easy for your opponent to land a harder punish on you for whiffing it. this is made worse by the fact that if you're trying to b-reverse with it your odds of missing go up.

idk, i guess it has a few uses but i'd rather just charge/fire my sphere in most cases instead.

 

[hichez50]

it has a lot of ending lag after the hitbox comes out, and that makes it easy for your opponent to land a harder punish on you for whiffing it. this is made worse by the fact that if you're trying to b-reverse with it your odds of missing go up.

idk, i guess it has a few uses but i'd rather just charge/fire my sphere in most cases instead.

Defiantly. A couple weeks ago I remember reading some lucario user didn't like FCAS because he couldn't B-reverse. This is sort of a solution.

 

[Karnu]

Guys can I try an answer questions?

:3

 

[hichez50]

Yeah of course. It if we think you are right we will either not post or post in agreement. If we think you are wrong we will then discuss and will find out more stuff about lucario. WIN! WIN!

 

[ViperGold42]

is he still claiming that Lucario has no real chain grab and that anyone who picks him up as a secondary will always be a nobody?

 

[DrSoussou]

lol chill. i still laugh at the fact that drama even exists on these boards.

To the best of my knowledge, the only "chain-grabs" that Lucario has are FP on heavies and Uthrow on Fox for a bit. Unless it has frame-advantage (like it does on Lucas and Ness) a grab-release > re-grab isn't considered a chain. If you get away with it, its because your opponent is a CPU or they're making mistakes. Big ones...multiple times in succession.

I'm not gonna comment on whatever you two said to each other but someone earlier said that as long as you're not power-ranked you're a nobody, so accept it. There's some truth to this, but in general I think that skill is relative. This is a game, so just focus on being as good as you wanna be with whatever characters you wanna use.

 

[ViperGold42]

lol chill. i still laugh at the fact that drama even exists on these boards.

To the best of my knowledge, the only "chain-grabs" that Lucario has are FP on heavies and Uthrow on Fox for a bit. Unless it has frame-advantage (like it does on Lucas and Ness) a grab-release > re-grab isn't considered a chain. If you get away with it, its because your opponent is a CPU or they're making mistakes. Big ones...multiple times in succession.

I'm not gonna comment on whatever you two said to each other but someone earlier said that as long as you're not power-ranked you're a nobody, so accept it. There's some truth to this, but in general I think that skill is relative. This is a game, so just focus on being as good as you wanna be with whatever characters you wanna use.

yep he's still at it, he's messageing me on AIb calling me a nobody again, man I pity him, yeah I thank Trela for basicaly teaching me this grab, and why do you have to be in the power-rankings to play Brawl? so you're calling me a nobody too, how about you read what you just wrote "This is a game" WHO CARES.

 

[DrSoussou]

idk what to even say anymore

 

[Sunnysunny]

You got yourself banned by throwing a temper tantrum and making several post about me calling me a douche bag in completely unrelated topics and forums.

Thats what got you banned.

You then showed up to MY aib account.

I apologized.

and you proceeded to call me an "******" and post blogs all around town filled with blatant lies to besmerch my name because your ego can't take a little criticism.

After which I ignored you.

Like I said, i'll gladly help you in whatever way possible, but get over it. I've already alerted a mod that you won't drop it, so if you continue to persist that "I'm a fraud" or I claimed lucario has no chaingrabs you will be banned again, because its basically trolling at this point. If you want to dig your own grave and lie in it be my guest. I've been in the community for quite some time, and have done nothing but try and help it. I have several students and fellow member that can vouch for that, and wouldn't spend my time targeting some random that was banned and already taken care of.

Leave it be and drop it.

 

[John2k4]

Viper, please do not start arguing with others in that manner in this thread.

 

[ViperGold42]

Viper, please do not start arguing with others in that manner in this thread.

yeah 2 days ago, I've gotten 2 days worth of messages from Alt accounts from him.

 

[John2k4]

Viper, please stop trying to instigate conflicts here.
Last warning.

---

Q/A thread back on topic GO!

Any specific tips for going against a Meta Knight? I try to stay out of the air around him, but am wondering what else I can specifically do..

 

[Sunnysunny]

You DO know this thread is only for Lucario related questions though, right?

Instead of doing the right thing and just reporting it, letting it die, or putting me on the ignore list, you're going to every board and whining about it to people who have nothing to do with it, and don't care.

A mod: http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=203606

And the ignore list is under "User CP"

You have no excuse now. I'm putting you on my ignore list as well. I trust you too do the same and stop bugging me, or bring up a situation that happened 7 days ago and was already resolved.
----------------------------------

@John: I honestly can't stand that MU. Nearly everything is punishable while were at low percent. I find myself using alot more Double team against him then others, atleast against aggro knights.

Its the defensive MK's that are a REALLY problem. Seriously, nearly everything we do can be punished. Against those kinda of metaknights, you have to just REALLY vary your approaches and attack strings up. At higher percent you can KINDA keep him out though, because of the increase shield stun, and shield knock back. Still a tough MU though.

Thats all I got though. MK's is banned for the most part in CO so... ._..

 

[BlueXenon]

Can someone please tell me how to fight marth with lucario?

 

[DrSoussou]

So I've had a question for a while that I always forget to put on here and I've finally answered it, so I wanna share it with you guys.

Ever used Extremespeed and then tried to use it again immediately after, only to find that it didn't work? Well I've finally figured out why that happens and how to get around it if you need to.

If you're in the air when you use ES, then land, you'll NEVER be able to use ES again without jumping or getting hit into the air to reset it. This is true regardless of whether you ES directly into the stage/platform from the air, or expend its entire range, become neutral, and fall onto a stage/platform. The only exception to this is if you ES in midair and cling to a wall. In this case, you have to LAND first AND THEN jump or be hit to reset.

Most of you already knew this, but what I have learned is that there are differences between ability to re-use ES after first using it from the air, and first using it while standing on a stage/platform.

If you use ES directly from a standing position, you can ALWAYS use ES again immediately after. The only exception to this is if you travel in a perfectly horizontal direction while on the same stage/platform. In that case, all you have to do is bend your ES upwards at the very end, even if its barely noticeable. As long as you see Lucario go through his landing lag afterwards, you should be able to use ES again right away. If this isn't working for you, its probably because you have tap jump on and you're accidentally jumping when you input Up-B, thus registering as a midair ES.

Now you're all like "wow great, this is useful...". Well I realize that its not, after all how often do you use ES while on stage, let alone twice in a row.

What may be useful is the fact that you can (from a standing position) use ES to cling directly to a wall, and then use it again immediately after leaving that wall. You can't cling again after using it the second time, but you can grab a ledge, or simply gain a good amount of distance.

Basically, when using ES from a standing position, Lucario can use it again immediately as long as he becomes airborne sometime during the move. For example, it won't work again if you ES straight to the left or right while on Final Destination, but if you're on Battlefield standing on the left or right platform, you can ES straight to the other and then back again immediately because you're traveling over the air in between.

This is especially useful on maps with many moving platforms and walls, the best of which would be Rainbow Cruise. I can see myself using it on Frigate Orpheon when the right half of the map moves below the left and the wall is exposed. From the low platform, ES to automatically wall-cling, jump and attack, ES again in midair to follow, retreat, or recover.

Also, while I was playing with this, I sort of learned how to employ the ledge-cancel glitch. It seems to only work from a 45-degree diagonal angle above and away from any ledge, but to achieve it all you have to do is bend your ES right as Lucario meets the stage. You can do anything directly out of this, but I'm not sure if you can ES again because I didn't have the speed or presence of mind to try it when I actually got it.

Another ledge trick with ES is using it directly from the stage to automatically edge-hog an opponent. If you've ever tried to do this and flown off the stage to your death, try this instead. As long as the ledge is within range of your ES, and you're holding the stick in one specific place, you'll always grab it perfectly.

On the control stick, there are 4 "cardinal" directions (Up,D,L,R). Between each pair is a "semi-cardinal" direction (akin to NorthEast, SE, SW, and NW). If you're on the stage, use ES, and hold the stick in the space BETWEEN the notch for Down and either the notch for Down-Right or Down-Left (depending on which direction you're trying to go, left or right), you will always grab the ledge perfectly and not die.

Anyway, like I said, nothing new or particularly useful was discovered here. I just finally grasped a more complete understanding of ES and thought I'd share it with you guys. If anything was unclear or you're thinking of a possible exception, let me know and I'll see what I have to respond with. Sorry this turned into a f***in essay.

 

[John2k4]

Thanks Sunny. =)

That was a very intetesting read, Soussou. I will check it out when I finish getting my Wii set up.

 

[DrSoussou]

Any specific tips for going against a Meta Knight? I try to stay out of the air around him, but am wondering what else I can specifically do.

Generally this is the idea, but a lot of the time when I see Lucario players face off against MK's they try to use ground-game and nothing else. I personally think that one of the most important things in the MU to remember is this: yes, he is much better than you in the air, but if you allow him to dominate it then you really can't win.

A good MK will punish you every time you approach with SHFair, but if you show him that your only answer to his Dair camping is a scared little Up-tilt, he's going to keep doing it until you lose. You can't be aggro with your aerial frame-traps, but you have to establish SOME sort of aerial presence and make him realize that the air isn't completely safe for him either.

I honestly can't stand that MU. Nearly everything is punishable while were at low percent. I find myself using alot more Double team against him then others, atleast against aggro knights.

Its the defensive MK's that are a REALLY problem. Seriously, nearly everything we do can be punished. Against those kinda of metaknights, you have to just REALLY vary your approaches and attack strings up. At higher percent you can KINDA keep him out though, because of the increase shield stun, and shield knock back. Still a tough MU though.

Thats all I got though. MK's is banned for the most part in CO so...

Lucario's worst MU, imo, but its MK so that doesn't really mean anything special. I've found the exact same thing when playing against aggro knights. Double-team can actually work somewhat frequently because they're almost constantly throwing out attacks. Obv don't try it too much.

Can someone please tell me how to fight marth with lucario?

What happened to that MU summary, Sunny?? trollolol

 

[Sunnysunny]

Holy ****....
That post Sousou! You know....there can be multiple mentors for one character right? Like...damn. I only skimmed it so far, but i'll read it in full in the morning. Looks interesting.

Nnng. I know I know, I need to get to the marth MU. I've een being way to lazy lately. Promise i'll hit you guys up with it tomorrow. <3

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

For Marth to remain in control he either needs to be on the ground or doing his short hop shinanegans usually. He has trouble dealing with someone under him.

Know when Aura Sphere beats FAir and such. Generally he will stale it to a point where you can beat it with less. There have been multiple write-ups about this MU, so I suggest searching the boards for them.

 

[BlueXenon]

Thankyou I read the marth mu thread. I dont think it said anything about fighting marth in the air.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224215

 

[Micklem]

Sorry if this was explained somewhere, but I can't find/figure it out..

Is there a way to cancel an aura-sphere charge with a pivot? (grounded, via shield) I was wondering if it may be possible to grab or SHFair an opponent after you've caught them in the charge hitbox, but lucario is facing the wrong way for it. I know you can pivot a shield rise, but it doesn't seem to work. The best follow-up I've been able to manage is SHDair, and that doesn't always seem to catch them.

 

[DrSoussou]

SHDair is the easiest follow-up, but like you said, its not completely reliable.

The best option is one that Trela uses frequently, unfortunately it can be rather difficult, especially if you're not used to C-stick aerials. Basically just jump out of shield (shield+jump simultaneously) towards your opponent and use a "retreating" aka "backwards" Fair. To the best of my knowledge, there's no such thing as a pivot-cancel. Your options while charging Aura Sphere are as follows. On stage: spot-dodge, jump OoS, roll, fire aura sphere, shield, grab. In the air: airdodge or fire aura sphere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6owcwjkHjy4#t=3m40s
at 3:45 Trela uses this technique while recovering

 

[Micklem]

Ah ok, got it. Thanks Soussou. I'll get practising.

Damn Trela is amazing.

 

[BlueXenon]

When you fair someone at low %'s, how do you know if you should use another fair or use a nair?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Your position, opponent's position, their %s, if you have your second jump if the opponent has a quick escape move, if you want to stale NAir, and what part of FAir you hit the opponent with. There's probably more.

Against characters like Marth you probably want to use NAir unless you hit them with the ending hitboxes of FAir and want to try another FAir. If the opponent can't really do anything to another FAir, then do another one.

Meat Knight can punish you with a Shuttle Loop if you aren't fast enough. If you want to be a top-level Lucario you need to have a flexible mind if you want to land strings at different percents.

 

[DrSoussou]

If you want to be a top-level Lucario you need to have a flexible mind if you want to land strings at different percents.

This is like the most important thing about learning Lucario's frame-traps. Brawl isn't street fighter. there are almost no guaranteed combos relative to other moves. If you don't adapt to every game you play you can't succeed. using the same strategy in every game is never going to work.

When you fair someone at low %'s, how do you know if you should use another fair or use a nair?

as far as this goes, i'd say that Nair is usually your best bet if you're attacking a grounded opponent. Landing with Fair has a good amount of punishable lag, Nair has none at all and therefore can be used to follow-up with a jab->grab combo.

Offstage, try not to use Nair because you'll have to go through the entire animation and could end up dead.