Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[Sunnysunny]

Sometimes the aurasphere makes contact with snake before his grenade and disappears. Lucario's jab1 doesn't disappear when it makes contact with something so it can end up hitting both Snake and his nade.

~BC~ please~

 

[Masonomace]

Why is it that Snake's grenade sometimes doesn't explode on impact against a fully charged aura sphere but explodes after a jab?

It all depends on how Snake throws his grenades against us. If he throws his grenades hard and it clinks/clashes with a FCAS at low% the grenade then bouncing on the ground and detonates remainder of time left. But I believe if the grenade is tossed at us, and we use our 1st Jab it can explode on contact. Another possibility that i haven't confirmed for myself yet is if we Jab1 on a hard thrown grenade, our jab clinks with the grenade and then waits to blow up. (I believe our jab can clink with a hard thrown nade if we time it and not let it hit us first)

Sometimes the aurasphere makes contact with snake before his grenade and disappears. Lucario's jab1 doesn't disappear when it makes contact with something so it can end up hitting both Snake and his nade.

^ this also

 

[Karnu]

~BC~ please~

Didn't see it x.X

 

[DrSoussou]

I don't think projectiles (bar the ones like Toon Link's bomb) trigger it? I believe they just stop it.

I have a few questions I compiled over a period of time playing. I'd be grateful if someone could answer some:

1) If they shield my down-air, what can I do to follow up (or at least avoid punishment)?

2) Should Lucario GIMP?

3) If the opponent isn't in the air, should Lucario do a full jump (ever)?

4) Is Lucario's dash attack ever a legitimate combo-starter?

5) How are more than two moves done in a short-hop approach? EX. How are more than the following moves done (if possible): short hop forward - forward air - neutral air/forward air)?

Thanks guys.

1) It depends on exactly where you are in the air relative to their shield. If your feet are within their shield, you have very little room to throw out another aerial before they touch the ground, whereas if you're high above their head poking them with Dair, you have more options. In general, however, your best attack options will be another Dair or a Nair, both of which will lose to a full shield if your opponent decides to keep holding it. You can't escape with a b-reverse mixup because Dair cancels sideways momentum, so you can only escape with double-jump.

2) YES, Fair-frametraps destroy a lot of characters' recovery. Lucario is also decent at stage-spiking (Fair/Bair into stage or weak-side Dair) and his floatiness helps with footstools. His only disadvantage is getting back to the ledge. Since ES has no hitbox, you HAVE to get there before your opponent. In other words, if you're gonna try to gimp, MAKE IT COUNT.

3) From a distance, I like to full-hop charge AS because its intimidating and unpredictable. Other than that, I can't really think of a reason I guess.

4) Yes, sourspot/late-hit Datt --> Utilt -> follow-up aerial (usually SHNair). Datt -> turnaround dash-Grab -> anything from any throw. At higher%, Datt -> turnaround Fair -> whatever.

5) You can't do more than two aerials from a short-hop if you're jumping from and onto even ground.

EDIT: Good questions, there's a lot of active discussion here. Sorry I'm jumping in late.

 

[Pivot]

Thanks for the help!

I've been playing wireless matches. The lag isn't really all that horrible. If you learn the rhythm of the lag it's bearable.

 

[DrSoussou]

my eyes bled the first time i played wifi. i've been seeing a therapist ever since

 

[yessi]

What do you do to DI if your being sent flying vertically?

I usually tilt the control stick to the bottom corners and spam fair, but it feels like it has no influence.

I've seen players DI from stronger hits and at higher percents, so I know I'm doing something wrong.

 

[DrSoussou]

Vertical DI is the hardest, imo. Picture your opponent hitting you with Up-smash at the dead center of FD. If you're launched straight up and slightly right, but pull to the left for DI, you'll steer your vector closer into the ceiling's blast zone and die sooner. The correct DI would be to use C-stick to spam Fair or Dair and use the analog stick to pull down and to the right. Correct me if I'm wrong. I also don't know how Fair vs Dair plays into it. I've seen Lucario's use both successfully but it doesn't look like an exact science. I can only assume that Dair has more of an effect if the distance you have to travel before death is longer, so that its momentum cancelling properties have more time to take effect.

 

[yessi]

I think that dair>fair makes sense because dair comes out faster, so you start quicker, and fair ends faster, so you can be done sooner.

I have personally never done this, but that's because I never really thought about it until now.

Its just a theory, but I think that it's better than fair>fair or fair>dair.

 

[Meta651]

I have questions about the Marth and Game & Watch Matchup

Game & Watch

1) What can i do against the Bair of G&W, it outranges me and if i shield the last hitbox hit me

2) What is a safe punish his Dsmash and space him?, i fear that sour that sends me down

3) What move is a good combo starter and what are the follow ups options? its weight so little that i cant rack damage

4) Its better to go offensive or more campy?

Marth

1) What can i do against his Fair?

2) Its a good idea to try to gimp him?

3) I can SDI his Dancing Blade?

4) Same as before, agrresive or campy

Im a Metaknight main, you can guess by my avatar, but always i wanted to main Lucario also so im working on it, im always checking this board.

Sorry if something is written wrong, im Latin American.

 

[DrSoussou]

I have questions about the Marth and Game & Watch Matchup

Game & Watch a difficult MU for Lucario, imo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1ZCyWFT3w0#t=6m15s

1) What can i do against the Bair of G&W, it outranges me and if i shield the last hitbox hit me retreat from it, its a really good move. if he's using it for spacing like he should, you'll have trouble beating it with anything so never challenge it in the air. your shield should be able to beat the whole thing, though. unless you're on a platform and he pokes you from the bottom, just keep holding shield.

2) What is a safe punish his Dsmash and space him?, i fear that sour that sends me down his Dsmash has very little ending lag so its really hard to punish, and the range is too large for most attacks to get around it. If you spot-dodge it, try for a grab. Unfortunately that's not even highly reliable, so try taking a step back and using your jab combo. Act quickly so he doesn't interrupt it with his jab, though.

3) What move is a good combo starter and what are the follow ups options? its weight so little that i can rack damage Combos are very difficult against G&W because he has a lot of options for interrupting (jab on the ground and Nair). He's also light, so your window for landing an effective string is smaller than usual. Try a dash-attack into uptilt or Ftilt into a quick follow-up. However, you want to be careful about trying to start a frame-trap against him in the air.

4) Its better to go offensive or more campy? It could go either way, but I would say this is more of a campy MU. G&W has a lot of options that hurt badly up close, and he counters our approach options pretty strongly. I prefer making him approach, in which case, anticipate Bair.

Marth slightly in Marth's favor, but close to even I think

1) What can i do against his Fair? His Fair beats ours, so don't challenge with it. Stay on the ground and space with Fsmash and AS (he has no projectile). If he manages to get in close with Fair, dodge/block and punish with Utilt/grab or roll and attack or reset.

2) Its a good idea to try to gimp him? Not usually, because he can stall with his Side-B and stage-spike you with Up-B if you're holding the ledge. You can't use Fair-frametraps to gimp him either, because he'll use Up-B to escape. He can also use his counter to negate any attacks when you're both off the ledge, which is dangerous for Lucario because our Up-B has no hitbox. This is the only safe way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJpahokTHzU#t=50s

3) I can SDI his Dancing Blade? I've always wondered about Dancing Blade, ask the Marth boards and come back and tell us what we should do.

4) Same as before, agrresive or campy Definitely more campy. The simple fact that Marth has no projectile means we can sit back and abuse him with AS, and we should. It gives us free damage and lets us dictate the tempo of the match.

Im a Metaknight main, you can guess by my avatar, but always i wanted to main Lucario also so im working on it, im always checking this board. There are great guides on the Lucario boards. Start with this one: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-lucario-starter-guide-and-minor-database.239748/, and then check out the one I just posted last night: http://smashboards.com/threads/lucario-clinic-options-strategies-and-ats.336601/

Sorry if something is written wrong, im Latin American. no te preocupes, eran preguntas buenisimas

 

[hichez50]

Welcome!!! It is nice to see so many new faces on the boards. Drsoussou has provided some really good advice. Most of it is correct/accurate. There are a little things that I would like to expand or make more clear.

If your question doesn't show up on the reply just refer to drsoussou's advice.

I have questions about the Marth and Game & Watch Matchup

Game & Watch

3) What move is a good combo starter and what are the follow ups options? its weight so little that i can rack damage
-first hit jab> grab/FP is always good. As first hit jab> dtilt pops GAW in the air and we can follow up during early-mid percents. One thing that wasn't mentioned is that GAW can intrepert out moves very well with his up-B.

4) Its better to go offensive or more campy?
-I would say it requires an adaptive playstyle. One of our biggest camping tools(Aura Sphere) is rendered useless agaisn't smart GAW players. In order to get AS to make contact we have to use it intelligently out of offensive options or to punish landing/shield drops. Offensive play is great vs. GAW you just have to know when you need to stop. GAW is great at punishing our landing/ long ending lag. If we try to go to deep with a combo he will surely just hit us when we have to stop.

One side tip is be careful how you jump. GAW's upair destroys us when we have used our second jump.

Marth


3) I can SDI his Dancing Blade?
Yes. All you have to do is DI away. I am pretty consistent at it. Just a little practice and you should be fine.

4) Same as before, agrresive or campy
-I don't really like the words aggressive or campy in this MU. I would say you need a patient play style in this MU. Lucario can't really approach marth in the air(of course their are exceptions). We can only follow-up things we have previously done. With AS you have to be careful for marth not to get too close. A good marth with PS and slowly walk toward lucario. If marth gets too close that severely limits our options.

I like to get grab reads against marths. When lucario forces marth to take the air that is when we can use our aerials.

If you want me to expand/clarify on any ideas mentioned please let me know.

 

[Meta651]

Thanks for the advice!, its really useful.

Something a forgot, what to do against G&W Dair? what i do its to get away and space Ftilt or Fsmash but i dont know what to do if im hit with it in the ground

 

[hichez50]

If you get hit by Dair there is nothing you can do. A lot of the time the GAW will Dtilt then try to follow up with an aerial. Your best bet is to try to predict wh3at your opponent will follow the Dtilt with and aviod that.

 

[LucarioMaster]

I'm always asked this question , can my opponents mash my FP at low % even if lucario is at high aura?

 

[hichez50]

Yes. It is quite annoying. If they haven't been released they can mashout. Also Breaking out of grabs is always dependent on how much percent the person being grabbed has taken.

 

[DrSoussou]

I'm always asked this question , can my opponents mash my FP at low % even if lucario is at high aura?

I believe there are 10 frames available before a grab registers wherein your opponent can buffer their mashing inputs, and if they fill these 10 frames with enough struggle, they'll just pop right out before the throw deals damage. This is considered along with other standard grab-release factors, such as the graber's %, the grabee's %, amount of pummels (if any), and amount of time between grab and throw. Since FP is technically a grab, this applies here as well. To answer your question: Yes, and its regardless of aura.

 

[Rizen]

*BUMP*
I have a question that came up on the Wolf boards, how good is Lucario on Lylat? I got the idea somewhere that it's often his best stage but IDK.

On a more general topic, what stages does Lucario like to start on, ban and counter pick?

 

[Konrad-QD]

I personally ban lylat because it messes with my recovery. Its a decent lucario stage because it's size allows him to stay alive longer and he has decent platform gimmicks. I wouldn't say its a particularly good stage though because his recovery isn't very good there (no clinging options). As far as lucario CPs go, FD, YI, PS1 and FO are the usual counter picks for most matchups. I tend to ban either lylat, or battlefield because of recovery. Beyond that it really depends a lot on the matchup and ruleset. For example FO is a great lucario counter pick if he is going against a spacey or olimar but not a great one vs metaknight or snake.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

I'm always a little iffy about taking Oli to Frigate, he is a force of nature on the second transformation plus increased chance of purples...

 

[LucarioMaster]

Fregate is good against Marth ZSS Olimar Falco Fox Wolf TL Ike and DK i think , even vs DDD, bad vs Snake Wario and MK
Lylat is good against ICs (maybe vs Marth?)
FD is good against every characters (except characters with projectiles)
YI is just mad good.

 

[Rizen]

Okay thanks Lucarios

Wolfs decided the MU is best played by what stage the player prefers except ban Frigate.

 

[DrSoussou]

My opinion: the most important thing to remember on this topic is that Lucario doesn't have stages that he's incredibly worse/better on (other than whether or not it has walls to cling to), and a lot of it comes down to personal preference. The best thing to do is frequently practice with Lucario on every legal map until you are equally comfortable playing everywhere.

That means that your starter and counterpick choices should always be influenced most by the matchup that you're facing, which is unlike certain characters that always have to ban a certain map because any opponent will CP them there. Only if the MU is not affected significantly at all by stage choice should you make a decision solely based on your opponent's or your own personal preference.

P.S. My order of favorite stages is FD, BF, YI, Lylat, Frigate, and SV...but you better believe I'm immediately banning FD against Falco/ICs, BF against Snake, and most of all YI against Sonic. I also generally ban SV against MK and take them to FD, as well as other characters with bad/no projectiles.

 

[Karnu]

How to beat Yoshi?

 

[LucarioMaster]

it is one of the easiest MU! he has no killmoves front at us except Uair, use your moves with a lot of hitbox and just trying to punish a maximum and try to be as faster as him in the air and shield the eggs.
If you DI correctly you can survive up to 160-170%!

 

[Konrad-QD]

How to beat Yoshi?

so you can aura sphere on reaction whenever he throws an egg and unless he's on the ledge you'll get a free AS punish. Therefore you shouldn't feel like you have to approach at all. In a neutral stance yoshi will bait your approach into pivot grab. The best way to counter this is to wave bounce-aura sphere punish the grab. If yoshi jumps at you you should catch him with fair strings. if he dashes at you he has limited mixup options (power shield, dash attack, spot dodge, roll, etcet). You can try to condition him to spot dodge and then punish with fsmash for an easy kill.

If Yoshi is on the ledge stalling with egg toss, you can charge an aura sphere and time it such that the yoshi can't egg toss and grab the ledge without getting hit by it. At some percentages and stages the AS doesn't reach a size large enough to accomplish this in which case you can also time a roll towards the ledge and then dair+jump nair to frame trap him off the ledge. Alternatively you can extreme edge hog him with your up B when you are sure that his only option is to grab the ledge. This is difficult to do vs yoshi since the yoshi can stall with eggs, nonetheless it is an option worth considering.

If you want to approach you can do so. Yoshi has limited OOS options due to the mechanics of his shield. Therefore dair on shield or nair on shield is fairly safe. Be aware that Yoshi is harder to combo because his nair (I believe) comes out quickly and at low percents can cancel your combo and hit you. Don't feel pressured to rack up damage in a combo if you risk being killed or punished heavily. Rather tag on small pieces of damage and remain safe since as LucarioMaster mentioned Yoshi's kill options are limited and predictable. Our Dair does not beat yoshi's Uair, be aware of this.

Finally, I have been told that footstooling Yoshi is an automatic kill. I have never done this in practice since I'm not good at this but it is worth considering. I hope this helps and if you need more information here is a link to the thread: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/yoshi-vs-lucario-35-export.258600/

PS: I feel qualified to speak on this matchup since MX, one of the best yoshi's in the world is from my region and I have had the pleasure of playing him on many occasions

 

[BRE]

I play on brawl wifi alot wit no lag and Im pretty good, but it seems like some people are playing the game at a faster pace than me.Someone told me to work on my speed.
How do improve my game playing speed?

P.S. I know about short hop, etc

 

[Meta651]

Could you be more specific in what aspect do you want to improve?

 

[BRE]

Could you be more specific in what aspect do you want to improve?

Fast falling, dashing, being harder to hit

 

[Angiance]

Jumping: rising momentum = F-Air; falling momentum = N-Air/D-Air | Grounded: Jab 1&2 (never the 3rd), OoS play, Aura sphere (duh) | Reaction: U-Tilt, Force Palm; AD from platforms; neutral opponent = never FH

 

[Konrad-QD]

Fast falling, dashing, being harder to hit

Become fluent with all your b tricks, b reverse, wave bounce, b pivot etcet. learn to fast fall after a sh fair. be fluent with ff nair and ff air dodge to pivot grab (the timing on the fast fall is different for each). learn to ff - side b in various situations (after a sh fair or in general when you're landing and stalling with dair you can ff to side b instead of stalling with dair.

you can practice dash dancing not so you can necessarily dash dance in a game but more so you can dash quickly whenever you feel like doing so in the game.

 

[BRE]

Become fluent with all your b tricks, b reverse, wave bounce, b pivot etcet. learn to fast fall after a sh fair. be fluent with ff nair and ff air dodge to pivot grab (the timing on the fast fall is different for each). learn to ff - side b in various situations (after a sh fair or in general when you're landing and stalling with dair you can ff to side b instead of stalling with dair.

you can practice dash dancing not so you can necessarily dash dance in a game but more so you can dash quickly whenever you feel like doing so in the game.

Thanks

 

[Konrad-QD]

Hey so have people ever experimented with changing vertical momentum while doing a b reverse/ wave bounce? For example, can you stall with dair then wavebounce and initiate a ff at the same time? I had this idea but I can't test it until I get back from Europe and was wondering about this after watching Richi vs M2k. Also, I read somewhere that lucario's f tilt can be tilted up or down... what are the uses for this?

 

[DrSoussou]

Forward-tilt is a great move, its two hitboxes are disjointed and come out pretty quickly. upward-angled forward tilt is great for MUs against aerial characters, including MK, Kirby, Peach, etc. The downward version isn't particularly useful imo, but I guess it can be used as a substitute for dtilt against someone holding the ledge (although that option isnt usually a great one to begin with).

As far as the first part of your post, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Vertical momentum comes from jumping, knockback, or falling. b-tricks only affect horizontal momentum. you can combine the two to change aerial trajectory, but there's nothing new to be discovered there. No, you can't stall with dair and then wavebounce because dair eliminates all of your horizontal momentum. However, you can initiate a fastfall and then wavebounce as long as your fall has at least some horizontal momentum. The fast-fall has to come first, AD to cancel.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Angled ftilt can also work as a pretty good shield poke when their shield is low.

 

[Konrad-QD]

what about when you're on a platform? can ftilt angled downwards hit some characters below the platform? How does it compare to dair OOS in that regard?

 

[Angiance]

As good (and adorable) as B-Air is, U-Air defeats the realistic purpose of it; most of the things B-Air does, U-Air does better and more. Question: reverse U-Tilt cost frames?

 

[Angiance]

Oops, wrong thread ^ - ^;

 

[Kokomaniac]

I know this might be tough to answer, but in what situations would it be beneficial to b reverse? Instead of just being flashy in front of my friends with it, how can I actually utilize it practically?

 

[Konrad-QD]

I know this might be tough to answer, but in what situations would it be beneficial to b reverse? Instead of just being flashy in front of my friends with it, how can I actually utilize it practically?

Regarding the uses of b reverse:

I think its useful to talk about wavebounce, b reverse, and turnaround b all at the same time because the uses overlap for these techniques. I'm going to assume that you know how to execute all three of these on a technical level and understand the differences in what they do. Just in case here is a thread that explains this well:
http://smashboards.com/threads/lucario-clinic-options-strategies-and-ats.336601/

Look under "glossary - non specific"

Basically WB reverses momentum, TB reverses the direction lucario is facing without reversing momentum and BR reverses both momentum and lucario's orientation.

There are tons of uses when you combine these techniques but I'll go through a couple just to get you started.

1. Avoiding juggles/edge guards
   1. Basically mixing these options up allows you to throw off your opponent when they are trying to juggle you. Because Lucario's mobility increases dramatically when you employ these techniques you can force your opponent to commit to an option and avoid it. Examples: http://youtu.be/-cYq_qUJRe0?t=2m6s, http://youtu.be/-cYq_qUJRe0?t=2m18s
2. Mixing up approaches
   1. Lucario's basic approach option is sh fair to dair. problem is that this is highly punishable if the opponent predicts it. So you have to have a lot of mix up options that force your opponent to react in different ways. shFair to wavebounce is a great option because it fakes the approach altogether and punishes the opponent really hard (aura sphere to the face) for trying to punish your approach with an attack. shfair to ff side b is another option which is usually a TB if you land the cross-up. Examples: http://youtu.be/uc4Ro78OzWA?t=3m12s, http://youtu.be/uc4Ro78OzWA?t=25s, http://youtu.be/uc4Ro78OzWA?t=1m12s,
   2. You can also TB and land with the ASC on top of your opponent which punishes an opponent who overuses shield. You can usually get a shdair or a backwards shfair to nair out of this. Example: http://youtu.be/ERYPW4wdbzQ
3. Mindgames, spacing and camping with the AS
   1. This is more of a broad category than the other categories. Basically you can use TB, BR and WB to throw your opponent off and make them have a difficult time figuring out what your next move will be. If you mess up your opponents spacing then they will wiff attacks which lets you punish their mistakes. example: http://youtu.be/uc4Ro78OzWA?t=3m3s I b reversed into a semi-fully charged AS which pushed Ally back far enough to cause him to wiff the ftilt which yielded a free fsmash.

For more information, I think the thread I cited at the beginning of this post does a great job explaining options thoroughly.