R.I.P. Bowsercide

[MrEh]

Well guys, better start using dash klaw then.

Dash Klaw suicides are way easier to pull off at losing percents because you can actually grab someone offstage, push TOWARDS the stage, and force yourself under the lip. It's pretty funny.

 

[muddykips]

hey, this seems like the most appropriate place to ask this.

i was playing for glory 2v2, and since i was at a high percent, i used a bowsercide on someone who had just respawned in order to reset my damage.

but then something went wrong.

what the heck just happened

 

[Mericus]

hey, this seems like the most appropriate place to ask this.

i was playing for glory 2v2, and since i was at a high percent, i used a bowsercide on someone who had just respawned in order to reset my damage.

but then something went wrong.

what the heck just happened

Looks like your teammate " love tapped " you before you died.
I only played a bit of teams, but it seemed that when your partner is responsible for your KO they lose points as well.

 

[King Bowser Koopa]

Someone has probably already said this, but if you are already one stock ahead then Bowserciding is still a viable option at the right percentages. It might be nerfed but it s by no means gone. You just have to work a little harder for it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Someone has probably already said this, but if you are already one stock ahead then Bowserciding is still a viable option at the right percentages. It might be nerfed but it s by no means gone. You just have to work a little harder for it.

Still not worth the risk of getting the version where they can still recover from it.

 

[King Bowser Koopa]

you're right but I guess we'll just have to take what we can get and make the most of it

 

[MagiusNecros]

you're right but I guess we'll just have to take what we can get and make the most of it

Which is basically once they reach 130ish% and depending on weight class you use Klaw as your KILL move.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Depends on if they're at the center of the stage or not. It'll be easier to use fthrow if they're already at 130+% and at the edge of the stage.

 

[Jerodak]

I usually just use Bowsercide on anyone that I know is incapable of recovery from that low. It's a lot easier than memorizing stages, but you get to use it on fewer characters. I feel like this will get fixed sooner or later though, in which case, at least this won't be permanent.

 

[B!squick]

I usually just use Bowsercide on anyone that I know is incapable of recovery from that low. It's a lot easier than memorizing stages, but you get to use it on fewer characters. I feel like this will get fixed sooner or later though, in which case, at least this won't be permanent.

Didn't you hear though? Game is PERFECT, no more patching required.

I mean, they haven't patched it by now, so I'm not holding my breath. I've learned my lesson though. I'm not bothering with the next Smash if Sakurai is heading the development again.

"Fool me once, I'm mad. Fool me twice, how could you. Fool me three times, you're officially that guy, okay? You know him, you know the one. You go to the bar and he's like, "This suit is, uh, officially it's a Giorgio Armani, actually my dad knows him." **** you!... I ain't havin' that ****!"

~ JonTron​

 

[MrEh]

The only thing we know is that Sakurai is a goddamn perfectionist. He'll probably fix glitches, but nothing else at this point. (and not even all the glitches either. lol)

 

[S_B]

The only thing we know is that Sakurai is a goddamn perfectionist. He'll probably fix glitches, but nothing else at this point. (and not even all the glitches either. lol)

That perfectly sums up the type of "perfectionist" Sakurai is, yes.

The type that was happy to let Brawl ship with a crapton of bugs (some completely game-breaking) so long as the ****-space emissary was chock full of forgettable and confusing bull****

On that subject, does a Brawl competitive scene even exist these days? I haven't bothered checking in a while...

 

[B!squick]

@ S_B It's going to be at Apex I think... for some reason.

Oh yeah, I'm calling it now - Brawl winner: MK, Smash4: Diddy, Melee: Fox. 64: Mario.

 

[-Kagato-]

I certainly do hope Bowsercide gets fixed. It's a real punch to the balls when you lose a tournament match because the rules only favor the move initiator if it leads to Sudden Death only.

Makes for an incredibly salty situation.

 

[Hitman JT]

I certainly do hope Bowsercide gets fixed. It's a real punch to the balls when you lose a tournament match because the rules only favor the move initiator if it leads to Sudden Death only.

Makes for an incredibly salty situation.

You haven't been around for a while, but Zigsta fell victim to a bogus Bowsercide loss after being lied to by the Apex TOs. Here's the thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/bowser-and-the-suicide-clause.392566/

 

[-Kagato-]

I must be taking crazy pills because I feel like most people in that topic are choosing to ignore Double KO results from Bowsercide and just jump straight into "Bowser loses" without paying attention to the fact the move is bugged.

Seriously, am I crazy? Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that?

 

[Zigsta]

I must be taking crazy pills because I feel like most people in that topic are choosing to ignore Double KO results from Bowsercide and just jump straight into "Bowser loses" without paying attention to the fact the move is bugged.

Seriously, am I crazy? Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that?

No, you're not crazy. There's a reason I stopped replying to the thread. :/ But thanks for trying your best!

 

[Jerodak]

I must be taking crazy pills because I feel like most people in that topic are choosing to ignore Double KO results from Bowsercide and just jump straight into "Bowser loses" without paying attention to the fact the move is bugged.

Seriously, am I crazy? Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that?

One of the issues is that there are people who think that the move isn't bugged and is working as intented, even while faced with a staggering amount of evidence which strongly suggests otherwise. Hopefully the bug will just be fixed soon.

Spoiler

Then perhaps we shouldn't let anyone know that it's been fixed and just let them try to cheesecide... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL-4xn_bAI8

 

[B!squick]

I'm sad. My Apex predictions were off.

 

[Hitman JT]

The main argument there is consistency; the move may be bugged but the game makes it clear that it wants Bowser to lose. The 3DS version is Bowser's loss always and Dash Slam only causes sudden death consistently on one stage: Wrecking Crew, which isn't even tourney legal

 

[Zigsta]

The main argument there is consistency; the move may be bugged but the game makes it clear that it wants Bowser to lose. The 3DS version is Bowser's loss always and Dash Slam only causes sudden death consistently on one stage: Wrecking Crew, which isn't even tourney legal

That's just so weird about Wrecking Crew. I wonder if it has something to do with the coding on the stage being different due to its bombs. Only logic I can think of.

 

[-Kagato-]

The main argument there is consistency; the move may be bugged but the game makes it clear that it wants Bowser to lose. The 3DS version is Bowser's loss always and Dash Slam only causes sudden death consistently on one stage: Wrecking Crew, which isn't even tourney legal

Prism tower and Arena Ferox also led to sudden death, and I didn't test all stages. I just tested a few at random. So there goes that theory. And it was normal flying slam.

Edit - Just tested it a few more times for consistency. Yup. Prism Tower always leads to Doube KO as does Arena Ferox. I'll take a little time to check other stages, but clearly Bowser was not meant to always lose on the 3ds version either.

Add Rainbow Road to the Double KO list.
And Brinstar.
And Dreamland.
And Reset Bomb.
And Pictochat.
And Wily Castle.

So about that whole "Bowser's supposed to always lose on the 3ds version" comment.....

 

[Jerodak]

The main argument there is consistency; the move may be bugged but the game makes it clear that it wants Bowser to lose. The 3DS version is Bowser's loss always and Dash Slam only causes sudden death consistently on one stage: Wrecking Crew, which isn't even tourney legal

Well sure, that's a reasonable argument if we're willing to also ignore the fact that dash slam is the most glitched out version of Bowser's side b. It doesn't stop Luma from attacking when Rosalina is grabbed by it while the default version does. Also, even the standard mechanics of the percentage determining control haven't been consistent. There have been reports of opponents being very far behind in percent and having more control over the steering than they should. All of this goes directly against how the move was originally designed to work. It's meant to be used for sacrificial K.Os, not exclusively of course but the designers did account for that, which is why the opponent is able to steer it at all, because otherwise the Bowsercide would be completely unfair.

http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/characters/bowser.html Unless I'm mistaken, this is an official Nintendo website, and the images used for the side b explanation seem to support my argument.

Even if some of the dev team's choices have been a little dubious, I don't think they'd intentionally put something this glaring into the game. They essentially worked on two completely separate games at once, and for separate platforms as well. It's not surprising that a few things like this may have slipped past the radar, the team must have been exhausted by the time the game came out, and possibly more so by the time the patch was done, so I'm not even upset at them for it, I just want this problem to be recognized, then promptly fixed! (:

 

[Hitman JT]

Prism tower and Arena Ferox also led to sudden death, and I didn't test all stages. I just tested a few at random. So there goes that theory. And it was normal flying slam.

Edit - Just tested it a few more times for consistency. Yup. Prism Tower always leads to Doube KO as does Arena Ferox. I'll take a little time to check other stages, but clearly Bowser was not meant to always lose on the 3ds version either.

Add Rainbow Road to the Double KO list.
And Brinstar.
And Dreamland.
And Reset Bomb.

Well this is quite the fine mess of a move. WTF Ninty. Although I'm pretty sure it caused Bowser's loss on every omega I tried it on.

so I'm not even upset at them for it, I just want this problem to be recognized, then promptly fixed! (:

I'll be mad at them for you then, it's their fault that Ziggy got Montreal Screwjob'd

 

[Jerodak]

I'll be mad at them for you then, it's their fault that Ziggy got Montreal Screwjob'd

Yeah that was unfortunate, Zigsta has my condolences. Hopefully, he'll have a much better experience next time and continues to visit tournaments; I'd like to get a look at his Smash 4 plays.

 

[-Kagato-]

Well this is quite the fine mess of a move. WTF Ninty. Although I'm pretty sure it caused Bowser's loss on every omega I tried it on.

I have the full list in my previous post now. And yes, all Omegas led to Bowser dying first, but Omegas aren't the only stages in the game.

 

[Zigsta]

Yeah that was unfortunate, Zigsta has my condolences. Hopefully, he'll have a much better experience next time and continues to visit tournaments; I'd like to get a look at his Smash 4 plays.

I definitely will! I won't ever go to Apex again, but I'll definitely attend other tournaments. I've just been super busy with writing literally every day after Apex. I'm expecting things to calm down in April though, so I can hopefully attend at least one or two tournaments then. I really miss getting to play more regularly. I usually play once every two weeks for a couple hours with a friend, do stupid things with Bowser, and then go back to being busy. XD

 

[MrEh]

We here in Hawaii just use a modified suicide clause.

In the event of a sudden death due to a suicide move, the player who initiated the suicide move wins. Respect the results screen in all other instances.

This keeps our ruleset clean without having specific rules regarding specific characters. This rule also doesn't particularly favor Bowser, but it's what we think is fair overall. We still feel that players who initiate suicide moves deserve to win in the event where the victor is unclear.

 

[-Kagato-]

I've had some locals use a modified version as well, which is just "If both players are on their final stock and an inescapable suicide move is used to end the game, the initiator is awarded the win regardless of what the game says." Inescapable was added because when it comes to things like Inhale or Bite, it's very possible for a last-second escape, where as Flame Choke and Flying Slam offer no such possibility.

 

[MrEh]

So what happens if someone get's Bowsercided, but they jump out of it before dying?

 

[-Kagato-]

So what happens if someone get's Bowsercided, but they jump out of it before dying?

Depends on the stocks. If it's the last stock for both Bowser and the opponent, the win is given to the initiator of the suicide move: Bowser. If Bowser has more stocks and loses a life, but the opponent recovers, then so be it. If Bowser loses his last stock and the opponent has 2 or more, then Bowser loses. So Bowser is awarded the win only if both players are on the last stock, or if Bowser has more stocks and the opponent can't recover (obviously).

It's a ruling that rewards the suicide move initiator if it is uninterrupted and results in a Game Over as long as the stocks are equal, regardless of what the result screen says.

 

[S_B]

Depends on the stocks. If it's the last stock for both Bowser and the opponent, the win is given to the initiator of the suicide move: Bowser. If Bowser has more stocks and loses a life, but the opponent recovers, then so be it. If Bowser loses his last stock and the opponent has 2 or more, then Bowser loses. So Bowser is awarded the win only if both players are on the last stock, or if Bowser has more stocks and the opponent can't recover (obviously).

It's a ruling that rewards the suicide move initiator if it is uninterrupted and results in a Game Over as long as the stocks are equal, regardless of what the result screen says.

In other words, it awards the win to the person who SHOULD win in the goddamn first place...

Seriously, when the only reason Bowser doesn't get the win is due to Sakurai/Namco leaving a bug in the game, I see no problem with tournament organizers stepping in.

After all, does anyone honestly believe Bowser was meant to take the match to sudden death on some stages but die first on others? What would the logic behind that be?

 

[33percentgod]

It's complete BS what they did to this move. Plain and simple. It's a great kill move that's completely taken away by anyone who actually KNOWS the game. Countless times I've died because the opponent steered me over the edge. And it's a deliberate move because I see them try to get back up to the ledge as fast as possible.

Bowser already has enough going against him and then this slap in the face comes along. What purpose does it serve AT ALL?