Saltus Combo (testers wanted) *please read thread*

[swordgard]

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this, I'm leaving for a trip in the morning or I'd test it myself. I'm just bothered because the frame data doesn't check out, and actually watching the video, MK looks like he finishes his bounce animation and doesn't force get up before getting hit (like when you mistime the ice block while hobbling Dedede with Ice Climbers).

I'm not ruling it out, it just seems...sketchy. If this works and is practical enough to make Sheik an MK counter, I will pick up Sheik and use her in tournament But I'm going to wait until a Sheik beats a notable MK with this and some testing has been done.

And SDI is actually really effective on unsweetspotted bair :/ Remember that Peach can do the exact same thing as Sheik is doing int his video, except using Wario's grab release to guarantee the footstool, and using float to cut eliminate frames from the footstool (footstool > float > release float so you don't go anywhere), and it's not an infinite cause Wario can smash DI the bair to move out of grab range.

Ok, lets make this clear. Its super easy to SDI out of this "infinite". This isnt hobbling or even near that whichr equires some skills to SDI out of. SDI the bair behind or farther away, or SDI the ftilt. Simple as it is. Stop advertising stuff as "infinite" when A)its escapable
B) its not really infinite.


I really dont feel like proving once again such infinites arent infinites cause of SDI, go try it yourself its not even hard to time.


Wrong quote but w/e

 

[saviorslegacy]

What's a saltus? Anyway I said before that this could only be banned if it works on everyone.

Anyone notice a striking similarity between the content of this thread and the one below? Coincidence?

Nope.. that is not a coincidence. That thread got me started.


Saltus= a Latin noun for the word jump.
Thus it is called the jump combo.

*Saltus Combo*

 

[swordgard]

Nope.. that is not a coincidence. That thread got me started.


Saltus= a Latin noun for the word jump.
Thus it is called the jump combo.

*Saltus Combo*

Please addres the comments i made >.>

 

[saviorslegacy]

Please addres the comments i made >.>

More or less.... that was an imp. sentence. I say we wait.

 

[Gea]

More than likely you can't play Sheik good enough to time it. <,<

I will advertise the word infinite until I have seen research made by several people proving that this does not work on all characters.

Timing has nothing to do with DI. I haven't tested myself so I can't comment on if you CAN SDI out of it but I would assume you can, especially when you need a footstool and SDI "teleports" you. What if I SDI upwards and away? Towards you? Down at the ground and away?

Even if it works in theory (like, the frames added up), in practice following DI is a tricky thing. Just play this cool and wait.

 

[swordgard]

More than likely you can't play Sheik good enough to time it. <,<

I will advertise the word infinite until I have seen research made by several people proving that this does not work on all characters.

You do realize how far SDI brings you if you manage to bring 2 inputs in1 ftilt you wont be anywhere close enough to do it

Whatsover, with 2 SDI i can land behind you, making you impossible to ftilt in the right direction.

The ftilt you just SDI up and away and then you have time to do a uptilt with mk before you reach him.

Gea is right, DI has nothing to do with timing. You cant SDI up the bair if its unsweetspotted though, but you can SDI either away or behind sheik, making the infinite impossible. Sorry savior, i think you should read my DI guide and learn its mechanics :S

 

[n88]

I really, really hope this works. Maybe if it does, MK won't get his own tier. The vid makes it look inescapable, but hard to pull off. I've got my fingers crossed that this works.

 

[swordgard]

I really, really hope this works. Maybe if it does, MK won't get his own tier. The vid makes it look inescapable, but hard to pull off. I've got my fingers crossed that this works.

Simple as it is, this will work versus 90% of the people cause noone or almost uses SDI.

Agaisnt pros, it wont. They SDI the bair and your screwed. Heck they get 2 attacks they can SDI out of.

 

[saviorslegacy]

*I changed my post and thus my mind.


We should not be arguing about it. We should be testing it.
*goes back to making full length video*


:EDIT:
Even if it isn't an infinite. Sheik just got a tech chase.

 

[Gindler]

Guess I just won't get Ftilted, it's not that fast...........................................****

 

[rathy Aro]

Saviors keep calling it an infinite. This is the most traffic the sheik boards has gotten in AGES. XD

I was kind of hoping sheik got to high tier through ftilt->upsmash, but if the infinite works I guess I can take that too. Now that I think about it, even if this is escapable it would have caught lots of people off guard at the next big tourney. Oh well, everyone knows now.

 

[swordgard]

*I changed my post and thus my mind.


We should not be arguing about it. We should be testing it.
*goes back to making full length video*


:EDIT:
Even if it isn't an infinite. Sheik just got a tech chase.

I did testing like 2 minutes ago, you can get out of it.

Its nice, but its definitly not infinite, youl catch pros 2 times or 3 at max.

 

[.AC.]

does ftilt have like no hitstun at all?or does it let mk do any action as soon as its possible?

 

[Tristan_win]

Simple as it is, this will work versus 90% of the people cause noone or almost uses SDI.

Agaisnt pros, it wont. They SDI the bair and your screwed. Heck they get 2 attacks they can SDI out of.

You do realize that pros back in melee did smash di foxes uair to escape the 2nd hit but even so a lot of them continued to get hit by it. Just saying "oh you could smash di it" doesn't completely dis value this lock to be used in a tournament setting.

 

[<π]

: )
Sheik is awesome, right gindz?
Even if she didn't have this... she has needles.

 

[rathy Aro]

I did testing like 2 minutes ago, you can get out of it.

Its nice, but its definitly not infinite, youl catch pros 2 times or 3 at max.

vids (or data) or it didn't happen.

 

[Zankoku]

It's actually not that hard to time SDI on something so telegraphed.

Its nice, but its definitly not infinite, youl catch pros 2 times or 3 at max.

You only get three iterations most of the time anyway.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Guess I just won't get Ftilted, it's not that fast...........................................****

*frame 5

:EDIT:
The Gonzo can be escaped a lot easier than this and it is still used.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Nice find, hopefully It works very well.

I might pick shiek back up again

 

[rathy Aro]

You do realize that pros back in melee did smash di foxes uair to escape the 2nd hit but even so a lot of them continued to get hit by it. Just saying "oh you could smash di it" doesn't completely dis value this lock to be used in a tournament setting.

MAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Why don't we use more of innocentroad's combos and explore them? Unreliable? Not the best options? prejudice against the japanese?

 

[Gindler]

*frame 5

105frames

Yeah, I know. I was joking. I've played <3 enough to hate that thing.

: )
Sheik is awesome, right gindz?
Even if she didn't have this... she has needles.

**** needles, it doesn't help that yoshi loves the Ftilt lock either (even with good SDI )

You gonna try this on MKs now? looks like you won't need a second for him.

 

[saviorslegacy]

MAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Why don't we use more of innocentroad's combos and explore them? Unreliable? Not the best options? prejudice against the japanese?

No just hard.

24 hours ago I could say that I can footstool.
Last night I spent around 5+ hours on testing.
I can now footstool anything that my thread says that can be footstooled with about a 90% success ratio.

This combo is VERY possible. As well as all of the footstool combo's. They just take a LOT of practice.

 

[<π]

yeah. I bested xYz's meta
once...


adam and tom wouldn't let me play him more.
I'm begining to understand the openings more

 

[rathy Aro]

No just hard.

24 hours ago I could say that I can footstool.
Last night I spent around 5+ hours on testing.
I can now footstool anything that my thread says that can be footstooled with about a 90% success ratio.

This combo is VERY possible. As well as all of the footstool combo's. They just take a LOT of practice.

Since when is hard an excuse to not do something useful for smash? If this is really the only reason shame on you, sheik boards.

 

[Tristan_win]

Since when is hard an excuse to not do something useful for smash? If this is really the only reason shame on you, sheik boards.

Mango is scary but keep in mind he was only able to do it that much after years of practice and even so he still got killed by the uair U_U.

and trust me if this is legit the current sheik boards have just died and the new, "I use sheik just because of her power to chain grab lock everyone in the game" will be born.

In other words more stupid posters but for every 10 stupid we get one smart.

 

[stealth3654]

ignore this post

XD

 

[hotgarbage]

Lol, did I NOT bring up the needle lock way earlier in this thread? I'm so stealing credit for that. :3

lol @ "MK's fastest option, air dodge, comes out in 3 frames". Uair is faster than air dodge, which kinda makes me think that frame tester might be crazy. If the data really lines up to show that MK can roll/get up/get up attack out of this, then that's a shame.

On the contrary I'm so used to characters having 3 frame aerials at fastest that I forgot MK has the fastest aerial in the game.

Pretty sad honestly considering that I did his frame data (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614)

And once I realized this I couldn't edit my post because the thread was locked 3 minutes after I posted it ;________;



Anyways... ERRRRRRRRRRR.....

I guess I should apologize for raining on the parade here, so to speak, but I would have posted the data if it had confirmed this working as well, so eh. I'd be happy to take any other frame requests related to this if there are any :V.

 

[swordgard]

It's actually not that hard to time SDI on something so telegraphed.


You only get three iterations most of the time anyway.

What ankoku said. This isnt a 1 time SDI thingy like an upair, you can see it coming MILES away. After the footstool, you know hes gonna try to infinite you, Tristan, this is completely different from the upair. Up air is reaction, this is proaction. Really easier to do. Also, if you mess up1 tilt, not the end of the world, hes gonna retry in 2 seconds and you know it.



Also, i dont have to prove everything i say, believe what you want, or go test it yourself. I know what i know, and im tired of having to prove everything concerning DI over and over for every "combo" that comes out. Theres ton of DI info out there, i wrote a guide, and you can find vids online. SDI is a powerfull tool that destroys almost any repetitive combo that involves a hit, even these "infinites" agaisnt wall such as dtilt from marth. Its all the same to me.

 

[Heartz♥]

Doesn't anyone notice that everytime something new seems to be discovered, it's some sort of ridiculous chaingrab or infinite? I just find it funny that it's kinda happening lol.

This is all too true.

What we need is less ways to be cheap, not trying to find tactics to counter Metaknight, because MK isn't great of a character anymore. Look back at Apex.

Cheapness doesn't always beat cheapness.

But anyway, good discovery. I don't approve of repetitive tactics like Chaingrabbing, but the best thing to do is to avoid getting captured by this kind of stuff.

 

[Tristan_win]

On the contrary I'm so used to characters having 3 frame aerials at fastest that I forgot MK has the fastest aerial in the game.

Pretty sad honestly considering that I did his frame data (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205614)

And once I realized this I couldn't edit my post because the thread was locked 3 minutes after I posted it ;________;



Anyways... ERRRRRRRRRRR.....

I guess I should apologize for raining on the parade here, so to speak, but I would have posted the data if it had confirmed this working as well, so eh. I'd be happy to take any other frame requests related to this if there are any :V.

It's not related to this per say but we do need data on sheik chain and the chain lock and so on...

 

[haloman800]

Crap......

 

[swordgard]

This is all too true.

What we need is less ways to be cheap, not trying to find tactics to counter Metaknight, because MK isn't great of a character anymore. Look back at Apex.

Cheapness doesn't always beat cheapness.

But anyway, good discovery. I don't approve of repetitive tactics like Chaingrabbing, but the best thing to do is to avoid this kind of stuff.

Dont listen to what heartz says >.>

Also tristan link, address my comments as to why you can SDI out if you still have any other things to prove me otherwise.

 

[hotgarbage]

It's not related to this per say but we do need data on sheik chain and the chain lock and so on...

Send me a pm/visitor message detailing exactly what you want looked into and I'd be happy to oblige. I've been fulfilling zelda requests for a while now, so I may as well do Sheik as well .


Back on topic though
I'd like to point out that frame data etc is entirely unnecessary to test this. All people need to do is get a partner and have them hold left or right after they hit the ground from the footstool. If I didn't bone up my data they should be able to roll before Sheik can connect with the falling bair (at least with MK).

I kinda hope that I did bone it up somehow though, as the shake-up this would cause in Brawl's metagame would be pretty fun lol.

 

[Heartz♥]

Dont listen to what heartz says >.>

Listen to this man, saviorslegacy.

 

[rathy Aro]

This is all too true.

What we need is less ways to be cheap, not trying to find tactics to counter Metaknight, because MK isn't great of a character anymore. Look back at Apex.

Cheapness doesn't always beat cheapness.

But anyway, good discovery. I don't approve of repetitive tactics like Chaingrabbing, but the best thing to do is to avoid getting captured by this kind of stuff.

o.o
I don't know what you just said, but I will respond with "go play melee".

Since this is limited to only a few hits is it preferable to ftilt lock or normal ftilt combos?

 

[Heartz♥]

o.o
I don't know what you just said, but I will respond with "go play melee".

Or Brawl+? I refuse to run away from bad matchups and other stuffs. Some people just have to learn how to play the game and not heavily rely on silly gimmicks. That is all I am saying. I don't make a lot of sense because I suck at explaining things. lol

 

[<π]

Aro:
all of the smashes have silly infinites... I don't understand what you mean...

Heartz:
This is what happens with the evolution of any compedetive game. Once you get to a high level of play there isn't "cheap" any more. It's just a winning stratagey.

 

[haloman800]

According to Swordgard, this can be SDI'd out of to uair for meta knight, and either way, I just have to ban FD like I always have.

 

[Nic64]

plus according to hotgarbage's frame data and tests this is totally escapable without SDI anyway

 

[Xyro77]

We need players to test this out in REAL situations. Fests/STDs/Tournies/MMs. Record or report back. This data is very very important