Official Seizon Senryaku: Marth General

[DariusM27]

so going to a regional tournament tomorrow with at least 80 entrants and we are doing round robin pools. there are 4 other players in my pool. the 1st seed is a megaman player, and the 3rd seed is a puff and falcon players. Any tips vs these characters will be highly appreciated, especially vs megaman since i have little experience against him.

Edit: scratch that my pool been changed. There a pickachu and yoshi player. And shaky the ness player is in my pool. Any tips on those characters would be helpful

Get Yoshi in the air. Shield Yoshi alot. Spot dodge read and punish grab attempts. Use nair1 killsetups.

Pikachu... dear god, run for you life. Okay, basically, use dtilt a lot. Stick and move. Don't get combod like mad. You can't rely on shield too much because pikachu's frame data is so good he will punish you so easily. Short hop fairs. Ftilts. Grabs.

 

[Jink8]

Marth has been my favorite character and main since the melee days, I really love the metagame of Smash 4 and I've been playing it for a while now, I main Roy due to Marth's nerfs, but I really wanna pick him back up. Is he worth maining again or should I just use Roy?

 

[Vipermoon]

Here's the thing. Roy isn't exactly better than Marth. Yes he is more mobile and does more damage. But he's free offstage, easy to combo on stage, has worse range, and has to get in close to get anything done. Marth is actually better vs the high and top tiers in general. They both have benefits over the other but neither are solo viable. And maining them both won't accomplish anything (matchup coverage-wise) except making you bad with both characters because of the ways they are different (I tried it once).

 

[H-O-G]

Here's the thing. Roy isn't exactly better than Marth. Yes he is more mobile and does more damage. But he's free offstage, easy to combo on stage, has worse range, and has to get in close to get anything done. Marth is actually better vs the high and top tiers in general. They both have benefits over the other but neither are solo viable. And maining them both won't accomplish anything (matchup coverage-wise) except making you bad with both characters because of the ways they are different (I tried it once).

I still play both but I decided 2 try my hand with Zelda as my secondary any thoughts on that? And it's true they both really dnt help cover each other's matchups.
And when will be the nxt time we challenge another board I would like 2 partake.

 

[Gemba Board]

Is it me, or is the marth character discussion dead as hell. Lol Im willing to bet this is a direct result of marth's downfall from melee. There are like 3 or 4 of you here. It sucks when i need match up or tech advice.

 

[Vipermoon]

Well you do have a point. For example, a smaller number of people have been posting in the thread as the pages went by. I mean, look at the first page. Those were all veteran members who happened to play Marth in Brawl. Some of them even said they'd stick around. Now it's mostly new guys, especially in the actual non-stickied Marth forum. The sudden disappearance of Shaya also sucks.

But I wouldn't call it dead. If you look at a lot of the other character boards, they have a new definition of dead. The Marth boards are far more developed than most of the others (especially for the first few months of Smash 4 where it was at the forefront of character boards).

 

[LancerStaff]

Yeah... Pit's a high tier and things are pretty slow over there, and things are still messy. Don't think tier position has much to do with how popular a board is...

 

[Ako.]

Well, you can't see a board active 24/7 as ppl do have lifes. At least we get posts, and ppl do respond to you and post whenever they have the time.

I actually don't see this board dead.

 

[H-O-G]

Marth will never die!!

 

[Gemba Board]

idk maybe it's because I'm coming from the mk boards. They always got something going on in the batcave, maybe not recently, but they be flappin them wings.

 

[Locuan]

@kj22 is too good~

 

[H-O-G]

Anybody want 2 ditto?

 

[Ako.]

Anybody want 2 ditto?

If u are looking for marth dittos, join the marcina discord group, ppl from there would happily like to ditto u.

 

[HFlash]

So... Vipermoon (and others) how is the Pikachu and Shiek MU? Feels like combo oriented characters kind of destroy Marth. He does ok in the neutral but oh boy.... when they get in, it hurts.

 

[Vipermoon]

Even in neutral he sucks against these characters. He doesn't have the lingering hitboxes required to punish QA and he doesn't have the dash attack and dash grab required to ever punish spaced needles. So he finds himself quickly losing neutral and ends up in disadvantage most of the game.

He capitalizes on those two character's kill power weakness. You'll often see Marth winning these MUs due to rage (I hate that Marth has to rely on this mechanic) and kill power in general.

Those two characters also don't struggle in edgeguards against him while he cannot usually return the favor when they are the ones sent offstage.

Most sucky thing about Sheik: Fair. It outranges some of his options and he doesn't have reliable ways to punish it.

Most sucky thing about Pikachu: size. Pikachu likes to get really close too. Marth's lack of body hitboxes on his main tools makes lots of things whiff at point blank. Every character hates Pikachu's size but rarely do they hate it more than Marth does.

 

[HFlash]

I'd say Falcon hates it just as much but yea. Went to my first local in a really long time, and got 7th of 35 or so. Not bad, but I got really discouraged when I played vs. MVD practicing mario, and almost beat him with Falcon (got a freaking knee on the guy) in tourney, then switch to Marth and barely take a stock off. That's highly discouraging, especially since Mario is definitely not a horrible MU at all. Meh, I'll hold on to my Marth as a pocket but as an actual tournament viable character? Hard to play with a broken character (and not in the good way). Anyway, who do you feel is a good secondary to cover Shiek/Pika?
I'm kind of hovering over to use in those instances.

 

[Vipermoon]

I'd say Falcon hates it just as much but yea. Went to my first local in a really long time, and got 7th of 35 or so. Not bad, but I got really discouraged when I played vs. MVD practicing mario, and almost beat him with Falcon (got a freaking knee on the guy) in tourney, then switch to Marth and barely take a stock off. That's highly discouraging, especially since Mario is definitely not a horrible MU at all. Meh, I'll hold on to my Marth as a pocket but as an actual tournament viable character? Hard to play with a broken character (and not in the good way). Anyway, who do you feel is a good secondary to cover Shiek/Pika?
I'm kind of hovering over to use in those instances.

I'll say Mario. He's a good secondary because he's easy and he does a decent job against those two.

 

[Halifax?]

~~~~~~~~~~

 

[CURRY]

What's the status on Marth's crazy ledge dash tech?

lol, it's been less than a month since Darklink401 posted that thread on our boards on how to do it.
It's still a super cool tech that's inconsistent to perform as heck. There's no one I know of who can do it consistently enough, and on all stages.

Status of this tech is basically comparable to perfect pivoting, except it's less known.

 

[Vipermoon]

People, including the Marth boards, have heard of/seen this tech since very early Smash 4.

 

[Gemba Board]

I don't like calling it "tech". It's mostly done by mistake. No matter what people are claiming, no one is using it deliberately in competitive matches. I'd love to be shown wrong, but sadly, it's been a long while since we first seen it.

 

[Vipermoon]

I want this Marth so bad!

From the description: "grab range increased, up throw is faster, up throw knockback reduction in order to chain grab/longer, fsmash has only tipper hitboxes and is stronger, dair has only spike hitboxes and is stronger, roy's dtilt, dtilt ends early, pummel damage increased, shield breaker actually breaks shields, shield breaker is stronger, shield breaker charges faster, more height from using dancing swords in the air, counter is spammable on the ground, counter gives height in the air, more horizontal control over dolphin slash, dolphin slash goes higher, no landing lag on dolphin slash, no landing lag on aerials"

 

[CURRY]

I want this Marth so bad!

From the description: "grab range increased, up throw is faster, up throw knockback reduction in order to chain grab/longer, fsmash has only tipper hitboxes and is stronger, dair has only spike hitboxes and is stronger, roy's dtilt, dtilt ends early, pummel damage increased, shield breaker actually breaks shields, shield breaker is stronger, shield breaker charges faster, more height from using dancing swords in the air, counter is spammable on the ground, counter gives height in the air, more horizontal control over dolphin slash, dolphin slash goes higher, no landing lag on dolphin slash, no landing lag on aerials"

Oh man, I thought that was actually a new patch until you mentioned the fsmash. The uthrow part scared me a bit. =.=
Two characters being chaingrabbed at the same time by one characters is pretty hilarious, though.
I know that Turbo Mode is nothing new, but lol quintiple fair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtOeaArKdcw&ab_channel=MagicScrumpy

 

[Reizilla]

Ummmm, Shaya, where is your avatar? My life isn't complete right now.

 

[Vipermoon]

Oh man, I thought that was actually a new patch until you mentioned the fsmash. The uthrow part scared me a bit. =.=
Two characters being chaingrabbed at the same time by one characters is pretty hilarious, though.
I know that Turbo Mode is nothing new, but lol quintiple fair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtOeaArKdcw&ab_channel=MagicScrumpy

I could f*p to the noises in your link.

Ummmm, Shaya, where is your avatar? My life isn't complete right now.

Shaya doesn't exist on the internet for some reason. Even his twitter is inactive.

 

[Random4811]

Hey guys! Its been a long time since I've posted here. Lost access to my Wii U, moving to college and all. Lil sister decided she needed it more apparently.

Anyway, I've been representing Marth at my local Tespa chapter vs. some really good players. Its been a fun learning experience.
Trying to come up with good ways to fight Metaknight, because our best player is a MK main. I've been experimenting with some shield breaker stuff. Saw Mr. E do something clever with it, when falling to the edge, throwing out a non charged shield breaker forces your opponent to come after you differently, and it makes it unsafe for them to sit ontop of the ledge.

I've got a local tommorrow that Ill be playing our boy Marth in, so hopefully that goes well.

Also, ****ing Cloud Strife in Smash? **** yeah. Picking him up when he comes out.

 

[Locuan]

Hey Random4811 , it's been a while.

 

[Vipermoon]

Hey Random4811 , it's been a while.

Oh look, the Wii U Backroomer titles are in.

 

[Locuan]

Oh look, the Wii U Backroomer titles are in.

I have no idea as to what you are talking about

 

[JbrockPony]

Skipped to to last page to see if Marth general wasnt dead. Seems like theres some life here.

Will be joining the Marth legion, never really realize how fun he is to use until I decided to pick him up as secondary. And this is coming from a sonic main.

 

[FallenHero]

It has been a while since I posted here, but this is kinda normal for me. I use the boards and post regularly for about 2 months and then just quietly browse the boards for about 2 months without posting anything. This thread seems pretty dead right now considering the last post was 6 days ago, but I assume that is because of the discord group.

Anyways, when I was playing yesterday I noticed that I now have a problem with dealing with pressure during a match. I don't remember if I was even using Marth or not, but I do remember that my friend was using Roy and I had a hard time getting him to stop pressuring me. It isn't just Roy that I have trouble with, it is pretty much any character that can apply pressure really well. The second they start a combo on me or get a grab it becomes really difficult for me to gain back control. Usually after a combo I end up at the edge of the stage, so it is almost like in other fighting games when you are trapped at the wall, but of course there is no wall. With other characters I can usually just go off-stage and use the ledge to help me out, but specifically against Roy it is very dangerous for me to try that, because his aerials come out very fast and a sweet-spot fair from Roy offstage can easily kill me or just send me too far to recover. How is the Marth vs Roy MU? I remember I saw someone here say that Marth beats Roy, but I am pretty bad at the MU. For me Marth seems to do really well at keeping Roy out, but when he gets in it is difficult to get him away from you.

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Went to my first tournament today! I got 17th out of 51 and used Marth the entire time (except two matches where I used Fox and Ike, respectively). Pretty proud of my Marth!

 

[Locuan]

FallenHero , there are ways to reset the situation. Dancing Blade and Dolphin Slash are great tools to get characters out of your face. Also, and I might be making terrible assumptions here, it sounds to me that you might not be conserving your jump or mixing up your recoveries when taken off-stage.

DrRiceBoy , congrats!

 

[FallenHero]

FallenHero , there are ways to reset the situation. Dancing Blade and Dolphin Slash are great tools to get characters out of your face. Also, and I might be making terrible assumptions here, it sounds to me that you might not be conserving your jump or mixing up your recoveries when taken off-stage.

DrRiceBoy , congrats!

I actually did not save my jump for off stage situations for a very long time, but I am using my jump a lot smarter now. I have not really found myself improving much at the game and only getting worse at it because I don't own a Wii U and I barely play the 3DS version so I end up forgetting a lot of the things that used to be second nature for me.

 

[PEACE7]

Any wifi marths wanna give me some practice? Add my skype xxxpeacexxx7

 

[Ako.]

Any wifi marths wanna give me some practice? Add my skype xxxpeacexxx7

Join the discord group, there are alot of marths u can play online with over there

 

[PEACE7]

Join the discord group, there are alot of marths u can play online with over there

is discord free?

 

[Gamegenie222]

is discord free?

yeah its free. Has a phone app as well.

 

[PEACE7]

yeah its free. Has a phone app as well.

ca someone add me to it please my username is xxxpeacexxx7

 

[BozzMac]

Hey guys, this is the admin for the Marcina Discord. Anyone wanting to join the Marcina Discord should leave a comment saying so on this post. It explains what the rules are and what makes Discord better than Skype (where we used to be located). Right now we are doing matchup discussions with the Falcos! So come join us if you want to chime in. Also we are doing a Marcina only tourney today at 6:30PM CST if you want to fight some of us.

Also Peace7, I pm'd you an invite.