Sexy Poses!: An In-Depth Move Analysis for Zelda - Move #18-20, 22 Up/Down B, Dash A

[JigglyZelda003]

pics up now, i hope they aren't too big....

has anyone ever tried for a situational stage spike w/ it?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

autocancelled nair can pop your oponent right up above your head for you to follow up as desired.

 

[lil cj]

I love nair, I use it alot.
It racks up fast damage and good with platforms.
It has some good priority too.

 

[Veggie123]

I remember I played around with nair in training mode a few weeks ago...

Its trajectory is pretty weird, it /usually/ sends in the direction opposite you DI during the attack (DI left, opponent gets sent to right). Although this wasn't including opponent DI so it could give completely different results with it.

It's possible to fully hit short characters with it grounded, but I find that you need to be near-perfect with your timing and it's probably spacing specific so it's usually not worth it.

 

[MrEh]

Use it as a punish move or as a way to smack people around on platforms.

Using it as an approach is asking to be shieldgrabbed. All of Zelda's aerials are unsafe on block, and lack any sort of range. It's usually people's first reaction to shield anything Zelda tries to do in air, since she lacks any sort of "fear-inducing-aerials" that Marth and Gdub love so much. And in most cases, shielding usually works.

It has some good priority too.

No it doesn't.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I should really use Nair more often. It's a good move, but I never find myself using it much. As others have said, it's useful for platform pressure and as an occasional mix-up. Plus it does pretty good damage. I think Nair also has some combos if you only hit with the last few parts of it... (That stuff's in the Great Fairy Fountain IIRC)

BTW, I imagine this most likely won't work, but if you Nair a shielding opponent and they slide off the platform, what do you think are the chances of being able to lightning kick before they can react.

 

[Kataefi]

Not so much combos but positioning mountain... some trajectories of autocancelled Nair have big frame advantages. Hotgarbage was the tester so you might want to ask him for more details. There was even that video of Zelda doing an autocancelled Nair > Bair sweetspot and it registered as consecutive hits lmao (courtesy of the forever gone Villi) :D

Hot mentioned that Nair can set up the platform trip (falling off the sides of the lower Battlefield and other stage platforms) really easily - the shield is pushed in accordance to which side of the move hitting it so those that don't decide to dodge the end hits are in danger of a free setup here (you can bair the fatties or get in a free dsmash/dtilt on everyone else).

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

No it doesn't.

well it has transcendent priority..... but that is normally more desireable on an attack that is more powerful on a single hit and/or has a large hitbox.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

well it has transcendent priority..... but that is normally more desireable on an attack that is more powerful on a single hit and/or has a large hitbox.

And if you're MK those moves also happen to be lightning fast.

Zelda's Nair's priority isn't hopeless though, thanks to it's rather fast startup and range which still isn't horrible. It's possible to go through many things (most of jabs and other Nairs for example) with it if you space it right.

Using it as an approach is asking to be shieldgrabbed.

It's easily shieldgrabbed, but if you need to/are going to approach from air Nair's the best option by far. It's her only aerial to even be considered to be used to approach.

Otherwise, shffled Nairs can offer some followups, mostly into another Nair or U-smash. They're also the closest thing Zelda has to an actual aerial game.

 

[zeldspazz]

I always get nervous trying to approach with it though, cus most likely your going to be a bit higher than your opponent and the hitbox/priority is all in the upper body area, instead of the feet where it would very useful. I only use it for platforms pressure, and at low percentages you can get a Usmash->nair combo for some really good damage. Also, it seems to have pretty bad range ;\ I tihnk its her best aerial though, due to it racking damage and no need for a sweetspot (YES!), plus I think it autocancels for some followups on the ground.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Using it as an approach is asking to be shieldgrabbed.

well thats why we should attempt to go behind them, better than them getting their grubby hands all over her dess.

 

[zeldspazz]

well thats why we should attempt to go behind them, better than them getting their grubby hands all over her dess.

You mean try to jump over them while executing the nair

Upsmash OoS says hi.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

cross-over Nair is alot better if you have to approach, then jumping/falling into them with it, or move behind them while thier shield is up. great for tall people.

too bad its much harder on short people though, especially if your trying to RAR it cause they can just duck........

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Nair is very good and it seems to have a lot of priority from what I can tell it only loses to like disjointed stuff. I like this move a lot by far Zelda's best aerial and gives you frame advantage if it auto cancels after the first hit or something along those lines.

 

[Kataefi]

Zelda is awful in trades, and she'll trade with single-hit aerials that deal 12% or more with this move whilst giving them 3%... this is not good priority.

Nair imo is a mediocre spacing move and I honestly like to keep grounded as much as possible... I will throw it out as a mixup obviously - the only times I use nair is when a) when there are looooooads of platforms everywhere and b) if the character is tall so you can pressure their shield when done from a SH (whether OoS or not). I also like throwing it out there on characters who have slower approaching aerials like Ike and Peach... (not for retreating aerials though). RARing it on grounded opponents I find is better... depends where the angle and tip of her hands are in relation to the opponent.

This is just how I've been personally trying to use it

edit: on positive note... autocancel nairs do give you some good chases into grabs or other moves like Usmash and others because of frame advantages. It just takes a little prediction to know where they'll land. You can set up a single Nair hit from a SH Bair!

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Nair is also good for catching items thrown at you, it last long enough to prevent insta followups.

sometimes i Nair when retreating, not necessarily OoS, people can't resist the sparkles....

 

[MrEh]

Nair is a terrible trade no matter how you look at it. Have fun doing 2% while your opponent smacks you for 10%.

Zelda has no need to approach from air in the first place, unless the situation requires you to do so. (or you can predict an opening)

Why jump in with an unsafe Nair when you can appraoch with Fsmash and (D)tilts? XD

 

[KayLo!]

Sometimes it's necessary to approach from the air, in which case nair is your best option (I'm pretty sure that's all people are saying). It's a balls option and pretty much just as good as having no options, but it's her best aerial for approach nonetheless.

I use it for baiting if I'm playing an aggressive opponent. Generally, people respond to "whiffed" fsmashes more often since they expect it to have more punishable lag, but SH'd nairs can get some reactions out of people who like to be hasty.

Most people are also unaware of Zelda's good movement speed in the air, so retreating nairs will occasionally cause spacing errors on the opponent's part.... at which point you can start dtilting. =D

Also, nair is a godsend vs. Peach. Unless she's spamming well spaced fairs (which is a gift and a curse, since without a fresh one, she'll have a hard to killing you), SH'd nairs on a floating Peach can stop a lot of her aerial BS if you time it correctly. It's somewhat hard to do at first, but once you get used to the timing, you can make a Peach think twice about how they approach you.

 

[choknater]

use nair to shield poke or pressure people who are standing on a platform above you or to punish air dodges when your opponent is too close for sweetspot bair or uair

lol kaylo

ur right that nair is good if peach is not spacing fairs, but i know edrees thinks peach's fair is her best move, and there was once a quote from cort about melee peach that said, "all you have to do is space fairs." brawl peach is not much different. if i played against a zelda with peach i would space fairs all day, and nair her dins fire.

 

[zeldspazz]

Good Luck killing after all those fairs

 

[KayLo!]

@chok: That's.... why I said "unless she's spamming well spaced fairs." x.o

 

[choknater]

lol yeah, im just saying, there probably isnt a peach who WON'T space fairs all day

 

[zeldspazz]

I find the Peaches I play to do more dairs than fairs. One particular Peach I face uses enough turnips a match to feed a country. Her main way of moving is glidetossing. She's the best Peach I face though, she utilizes those turnips extremely well, and that wat she keeps her fair fresh for kills.

 

[choknater]

do turnips refresh moves? :O dang

and yeah turnips are effective against zelda, they can kinda shut down our movement

fairs are way better than dairs in the matchup though, dairs can be punished by stuff while fairs cant honestly

 

[zeldspazz]

*Back on subject*

So, anyway, I noticed that if you hit a grounded opponent with nair, if it hits them the right way it puts them in a position for fair/bair. Not guaranteed but a surprise attack?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Zelda is awful in trades, and she'll trade with single-hit aerials that deal 12% or more with this move whilst giving them 3%... this is not good priority.

Nair imo is a mediocre spacing move and I honestly like to keep grounded as much as possible... I will throw it out as a mixup obviously - the only times I use nair is when a) when there are looooooads of platforms everywhere and b) if the character is tall so you can pressure their shield when done from a SH (whether OoS or not). I also like throwing it out there on characters who have slower approaching aerials like Ike and Peach... (not for retreating aerials though). RARing it on grounded opponents I find is better... depends where the angle and tip of her hands are in relation to the opponent.

This is just how I've been personally trying to use it

edit: on positive note... autocancel nairs do give you some good chases into grabs or other moves like Usmash and others because of frame advantages. It just takes a little prediction to know where they'll land. You can set up a single Nair hit from a SH Bair!

I thought it beats out most non disjointed aerials. I'm not really sure how many aerials there are that does 12+ damage and can beat out Zelda's nair. I think of marth DK snake'sd3. Other than that IDK what would fit with the single hit 12 damage.

 

[Kataefi]

I was just using 12+% as an example legendary - aerial hitboxes don't really have priority, they'll just trade if the hitboxes clash, so Zelda's nair will do a small amount of damage whilst she'll get a lot of damage from single-hit aerials.

 

[zeldspazz]

Weird, it seems that the first couple hits of nair make the opponent be pulled slightly downwards, and then the last hit has the knockback. Cool

 

[MrEh]

I thought it beats out most non disjointed aerials.

It doesn't. Basically, aerial priority doesn't exist. Whoever gets hit first will get hit.

And since Zelda's Nair range is total balls, anything with even a hint of range will usually beat it. Sure, it might beat out Bowser's Nair or something. But as far as aerials go, it's pretty unimpressive in it's ability to "beat" anything.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I was just using 12+% as an example legendary - aerial hitboxes don't really have priority, they'll just trade if the hitboxes clash, so Zelda's nair will do a small amount of damage whilst she'll get a lot of damage from single-hit aerials.

It doesn't. Basically, aerial priority doesn't exist. Whoever gets hit first will get hit.

And since Zelda's Nair range is total balls, anything with even a hint of range will usually beat it. Sure, it might beat out Bowser's Nair or something. But as far as aerials go, it's pretty unimpressive in it's ability to "beat" anything.

Ah I see now I get it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

At least it's zelda's only aerial that doesn't require a sweetspot.

 

[zeldspazz]

At least it's zelda's only aerial that doesn't require a sweetspot.

U-air says hi

 

[KayLo!]

U-air says hi

Uair's hitbox is so small, it might as well be a sweetspot.

I mean, it's not that bad, but it definitely takes some precision to hit with. I don't understand why they gave the move so much fire animation for such a janky hitbox..... if you're in the flames, you should **** well be getting hit.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Uair's hitbox is so small, it might as well be a sweetspot.

I mean, it's not that bad, but it definitely takes some precision to hit with. I don't understand why they gave the move so much fire animation for such a janky hitbox..... if you're in the flames, you should **** well be getting hit.

*thinks back to melee Uair*

you know..... maybe we shouldn't complain about brawl's uair so much.

 

[zeldspazz]

*thinks back to melee Uair*

you know..... maybe we shouldn't complain about brawl's uair so much.

I second that lol. At least now it kills easily. But Kaylo was right, whoever made Zelda's aerials must be shot xD

 

[MrEh]

Whoever thought it was a good idea to put Zelda in smash needs to be shot.

Honestly, it seems like they added Zelda in Melee just to make the roster bigger. No thought went into her moveset either. (As if giving her two of the same aerial didn't make that apparent.)

 

[mountain_tiger]

I second that lol. At least now it kills easily. But Kaylo was right, whoever made Zelda's aerials must be shot xD

I think Zelda's aerials could be much better with a few simple changes. Such as the following: (Brawl+ developers, I hope you're listening)

- Nair: Make it longer ranged with mild disjoint. Otherwise, it's fine as it is.
- Bair: Make the sourspot marginally stronger, so at the very least you're safe on hit.
- Fair: Instead of having sweetspot/sourspot, make it so that it always does 10% damage and mild knockback, making it a useful combo move rather than a situational killer.
- Uair: Knockback and speed from Brawl, hitbox size from Melee.
- Dair: Make the sourspot do more damage and knockback, so that it actually has some potential to kill people if it doesn't sweetspot.

How does that sound?

 

[Brinzy]

Give her a Mother boy's dair. Seriously, there have been so many times where I had to deny myself punishment because my only option that I knew I'd get was a dair, and... it's dair. I guess it's not totally unusable if they have some damage on them, but really?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

- Uair: Knockback and speed from Brawl, hitbox size from Melee.

Oh god no. The hitbox of her Melee Uair is probably the most ******** thing ever: it looks like a giant explosion that could reach anywhere but is actually impossible to hit with. I can't even count the number of times people have landed right in the middle of the Uair, get completely covered by the explosion and then just walked out totally unharmed and punished me.

Pretty much how KayLo! described her brawl Uair hitbox, only much worse.

Spoiler

Is it just me or have we gotten a little sidetracked here?

 

[mountain_tiger]

Let me rephrase that: make the hitbox on Uair the same size as what the hitbox on her Melee Uair looks like it should be.

Though we should really get back on topic to discussing Nair.

BTW, I vote we discuss DSmash (aka 'The Milkmaid Kick') afterwards.