Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[Chaco]

Take it to disputes.

 

[Hive]

dang, i didn't know we even had the disputes thing :/

 

[Lotopius]

What prevents samus from playing omnigay; by camping with missiles, tacking on damage with charged shot during the missile hitstun, spacing with zairs and grabs and up-b OoS in emergencies; efficiently?

 

[Hive]

what prevents samuses brickwalls? hmm... most of them are character specific, which character are you using, or did you have one in mind?

 

[-Crews-]

What prevents samus from playing omnigay; by camping with missiles, tacking on damage with charged shot during the missile hitstun, spacing with zairs and grabs and up-b OoS in emergencies; efficiently?

well a number of things.

-camping with missiles and chargeshot during missile hitstun-
well, we can do all of that. but characters can powersheild, roll past/spot dodge, jump over, take advantage of the lag of those moves (sonic, cf, and quicker chars like that), spam themselves, or simply reflect those types of spam tactics.

-spacing with zairs and grabs-
we can do that as well. its just that zair only goes so far in terms of keeping your opponent in our preferred range. not to mention that some chars (mk being the perfect example) can actually both run under the zair or take advantage of the time it takes for samus to land from doing a zair. trust me, mk's punish me for zairing all the time and im sure it happens to all of us from time to time.

as far as the grab goes. it isn't really our best spacing option due to the lag of a missed grab. i personally find it much safer to either pivot grab an unsuspecting opponent or set up a grab with a missile or something like that. those are pretty much the only two ways i risk a grab. there are exceptions though of course.

-up b Oos-
well there is really never a wrong time to do this when appropriate. but the key words are when appropriate. meaning that up b isn't a move like mk's dsmash that can be spammed like crazy. the landing lag is something to be feared but don't let that keep you from using it.


all in all, i suppose chars that keep us grounded are the reason why we dont play "omnigay" all the time. sure, there are chars like dk and gannon who can't really do anything about this type of playing but faster smaller chars who can take advantage of the fact that were always in the air make it so we can't just spam a certain move as much as we want to. well thats all i really have to say about this. hope i answered your question.

 

[Lotopius]

yep, you did, thanks.

 

[Metatitan]

haaaai. im starting to use samus as my new secondary main! ive used her for awhile so i know most of her AT's, i know her comboes and attacks and stuff, but any advice u can give to someone just okay with the char? as in any tips with spacing and stuff? thanx!

 

[Cherry64]

haaaai. im starting to use samus as my new secondary main! ive used her for awhile so i know most of her AT's, i know her comboes and attacks and stuff, but any advice u can give to someone just okay with the char? as in any tips with spacing and stuff? thanx!

Uhm, We usually say stay away form her as she does blow chunks and it's hard as **** to win anything while using her, but you know all about Low tier chars that only work when they don't know the match-up.

So! advice, well Play other samus mains and learn tricks of the trade from the people who know them already. and this is good keep posting here and play around with her lots we need new moves and such that we can all benefit from. we haven't had a break through with her for a good year.

Guys... if we've milked her for all she's worth ALREADY, then 1 we are screwed and 2 the producers HATE her.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

That's one reason I don't come around anymore on these boards... there doesn't seem to be anything new left in Samus.

 

[Cherry64]

Defs agreed.
look around in this though, it's probably the only thing that seems to be opening our eyes.

 

[spudzalot]

OK I just barely starting using Samus yesterday and I love her. But a huge problem I have with her is her grab, it sucks. Im have always been so dependent on shield grabbing but now its basically worthless with Samus and gets me punished. So, what are some good out of shield option for Samus.

Thanks in advance. :]

 

[Cherry64]

OK I just barely starting using Samus yesterday and I love her. But a huge problem I have with her is her grab, it sucks. Im have always been so dependent on shield grabbing but now its basically worthless with Samus and gets me punished. So, what are some good out of shield option for Samus.

Thanks in advance. :]

Err! I'ma tell you right now HOW to shield grab with samus. Try it out lol, When they smash attack you, SHIELD it then grab, Because either way, if you perfect shield it you'll have time to grab them, if you don't and get knocked back she can still grab them because of her range, Try it out I only jsut started doing this.

Secondly her UpB OoS wrecks aerial approach's Keep that in mind, instead of shield grabbing you can UpB almost ALL aerials unless they are multi-hit, try and stay away from Up B'ing those.

Also you should realize Samus is a hard char to play. you gotta know exactly what's going on at all times, and be steps ahead of your opponents. ALWAYS be prepared or your toast good luck and good hunting

 

[spudzalot]

Err! I'ma tell you right now HOW to shield grab with samus. Try it out lol, When they smash attack you, SHIELD it then grab, Because either way, if you perfect shield it you'll have time to grab them, if you don't and get knocked back she can still grab them because of her range, Try it out I only jsut started doing this.

Secondly her UpB OoS wrecks aerial approach's Keep that in mind, instead of shield grabbing you can UpB almost ALL aerials unless they are multi-hit, try and stay away from Up B'ing those.

Also you should realize Samus is a hard char to play. you gotta know exactly what's going on at all times, and be steps ahead of your opponents. ALWAYS be prepared or your toast good luck and good hunting

All right thankyou. :]

I have mostly been having problems with my friends Marth that is terribly aggressive and with any other character I would shield grab his face after his badly spaced f-aris. But I was having problems with Samus because of the couple start up frames to her grab.

And dont worry I am a pretty good player, I think I can handle Samus.

 

[Crystanium]

I have mostly been having problems with my friends Marth that is terribly aggressive and with any other character I would shield grab his face after his badly spaced f-aris. But I was having problems with Samus because of the couple start up frames to her grab.

Then grab less.

And dont worry I am a pretty good player, I think I can handle Samus.

Samus' learning curve is difficult. Don't think you can waltz in and have everything down. You can know every attack Samus has at her disposal, but that doesn't mean you know how to use it properly.

 

[Serris]

All right thankyou. :]

I have mostly been having problems with my friends Marth that is terribly aggressive and with any other character I would shield grab his face after his badly spaced f-aris. But I was having problems with Samus because of the couple start up frames to her grab.

Then grab less.

Dryn, you could have at least said something constructive.

Spudz, I suggest looking into retreating pivot grabs. Samus' pivot grab is underestimated, and very useful against certain characters. Her homing missiles and charge shots also give some plentiful stun to set up for grabs.

 

[Ravin]

Where the hell are all these Samus players popping up from?

I dont like Samus grab too much unless im punishing someone. Any other time is almost asking to be punished.

 

[NO-IDea]

Where the hell are all these Samus players popping up from?

I dont like Samus grab too much unless im punishing someone. Any other time is almost asking to be punished.

Agreed. Your best Oos options normally don't include grabbing unless at low percentages... which you then follow up with your own aerial combos or retreat and set-up your projectiles.

Otherwise, stick to f-tilt and f-smash for punishing.

If you do like taking advantage of the abnormal length of her grapple beam, then grab when
A) Following up a z-air, homing missiles, etc.
B) Advancing or Retreating (pivot grab is a great mind game both offensively and defensively... although for those opponents that will dash at you, a pre-emptive throw will catch them off guard (MK, Snake, etc.))

Oh, and hi, I'm NO-IDea or NOID for short. Figured I'd introduce myself somewhere...

And yes, Samus has a high learning curve. Don't pick her up unless you've got talent and plan on spending time learning her.

 

[Cherry64]

Where the hell are all these Samus players popping up from?

I dont like Samus grab too much unless im punishing someone. Any other time is almost asking to be punished.

LOL agreed. ah well, at least she has a bit better backing now. I'ma go recruit another I hope.

EDIT: if you REALLY must grab, missile cancel a Homing missile first. only do this when far away.
but dryn is right, samus' Learning curve is stupid. Even if you do know how all her attack work, you won't be able to use them right without loads of practice.

 

[Cherry64]

**** double post I totally forgot I was the last eprson to post, Sorry Dryn

 

[IsmaR]

Where the hell are all these Samus players popping up from?

Welcome to my world 10 months ago.

but dryn is right, samus' Learning curve is stupid. Even if you do know how all her attack work, you won't be able to use them right without loads of practice.?

Part of me likes the challenge, the other part likes actually being able to use her right.

 

[Cherry64]

Lol good ol challenges.

Okay so yesterday I faced a good marth online, and I've come to the realization that it's Very hard. How in the Hell do we get back online when they short hop F air twice and upon landing buffer an F smash?
he's so ridiculously fast that fighting him with samus is like suicide. I mean every time I was hanging on the ledge It was another stock off me. Pretty stupid I'd say

But onto my lame question. How do you get back on the ledge? Are there any tricks or tips for this match-up at all that any one knows? Yes I know, match-up guide except they haven't done marth yet so there's no point in looking there right now

 

[Xyro77]

Lol good ol challenges.

Okay so yesterday I faced a good marth online, and I've come to the realization that it's Very hard. How in the Hell do we get back online when they short hop F air twice and upon landing buffer an F smash?
he's so ridiculously fast that fighting him with samus is like suicide. I mean every time I was hanging on the ledge It was another stock off me. Pretty stupid I'd say

But onto my lame question. How do you get back on the ledge? Are there any tricks or tips for this match-up at all that any one knows? Yes I know, match-up guide except they haven't done marth yet so there's no point in looking there right now

we have done marth. go look

 

[Werk!]

If all else fails, try going under the stage. On all tourney-legal neutral stages (other than Yoshi's, which is CP in my area), Samus can mindgame going under the stage and coming up the other side or returning to the original side.

 

[Cherry64]

Oh? YaY! alright going to look now! :D

If all else fails, try going under the stage. On all tourney-legal neutral stages (other than Yoshi's, which is CP in my area), Samus can mindgame going under the stage and coming up the other side or returning to the original side.

Dude...marth can walk across on top of the stage and be there before me, or if he wants jump of the stage and Up B which would stage spike me.

It was a nice thought though.

 

[Werk!]

Obviously, it comes with a bit of risk. However, you can choose to go either way at the mid-point of the stage, and Marth will need to outpredict you to actually get there to reasonably PUNISH you if he chooses to stay on the stage.

If you're doing this, you'll be bomb-laying sideways at maximum sideways DI--if Marth using double-fair to f-smash, there are windows he CANNOT chase you down from and expect to hit you with Up-B. If you save your second jump and keep mindful of timings and his Up-B, you can recover off of either side--and he will be forced to get back on to the stage, leaving him with lag and you a chance to get back on.

Like all Samus tricksies, this is a lot of work for something that might prove absolutely useless. But every little thing that we can do that they might not know will help in the matchup, and who the hell expects Samus to make it across the bottom of FD?

 

[spudzalot]

Then grab less.



Samus' learning curve is difficult. Don't think you can waltz in and have everything down. You can know every attack Samus has at her disposal, but that doesn't mean you know how to use it properly.

I Know.

Right now Im already going equal with some of my friends mains and I have watched tons of L!te and Xyro vids to get some ideas down. I mean Im not saying I will do amazing in tourneys right now with my Samus but maybe in a couple of weeks ill try and see how good I do. Saying I could handle Samus didnt mean I knew everything about her...

And thanks for the advice on the grabs guys.

 

[Metatitan]

Where the hell are all these Samus players popping up from?

I dont like Samus grab too much unless im punishing someone. Any other time is almost asking to be punished.

well i personally have been lurking o.O

is there a samus xat chat?

 

[Serris]

well i personally have been lurking o.O

is there a samus xat chat?

There have been two:

One by myself, which utterly failed.
One by Xyro, status unknown.

 

[Metatitan]

can i have the link?

 

[Cherry64]

Obviously, it comes with a bit of risk. However, you can choose to go either way at the mid-point of the stage, and Marth will need to outpredict you to actually get there to reasonably PUNISH you if he chooses to stay on the stage.

If you're doing this, you'll be bomb-laying sideways at maximum sideways DI--if Marth using double-fair to f-smash, there are windows he CANNOT chase you down from and expect to hit you with Up-B. If you save your second jump and keep mindful of timings and his Up-B, you can recover off of either side--and he will be forced to get back on to the stage, leaving him with lag and you a chance to get back on.

Like all Samus tricksies, this is a lot of work for something that might prove absolutely useless. But every little thing that we can do that they might not know will help in the matchup, and who the hell expects Samus to make it across the bottom of FD?

no like, while I am going across the bottom, the marth walks across the stage above me and I end up still as screwed because I am still on the ledge and he is still hovering above me with no way to beat it. He is ALWAYS jumping to F air then to N air to side smash, so I cannot Zair him through the stage.

he can walk faster than I can bomb and DI across the stage, I can do it under BF and SV but not FD I still find it absolutely useless however

What do I doo?? the guide didn't go on this, which means we should add that to it lol I'll try and get vids of me getting ***** so you can all see it for yourself

 

[Smoom77]

Um, I can't really find any good uses for Nair. Whenever I try it, it just misses. x.x

 

[Xyro77]

nair has next to no uses. unless the foe is over 125% and nair is fully refreshed

 

[NO-IDea]

nair has next to no uses. unless the foe is over 125% and nair is fully refreshed

Or instead used defensively? It still has good knockback, especially during those times where you're falling, they're coming at you from close range and you've got no time to pull off zair or dair.

And uair would be foolish to utilize in this scenario because it has little horizontal range.

The move I probably use the least is u-tilt. I truly think that move is useless. Only possible use is maybe to edge-guard, assuming your opponent is foolish enough to stay on edge that long or actually fall for it while recovering. Otherwise, there are better options to deal with an aerial approach.

For those who believe u-tilt can be utilized in combos, I'd much rather prefer a grounded up+b or sh-uair over u-tilt any day. Faster, less riskier and has solid knockback to reset spacing.

[EDIT] There's also the sh-homing/super missle to u-tilt. Again, better options lie with d-tilt, jab, f-smash, etc.

 

[Smoom77]

Alright, another one. If I wanted to approach someone with zair, would I want to use a canceled zair or a normal one (assuming you're sh'ing)?

 

[Crystanium]

I beg to differ with Xyro. It's not that great, but it does have its uses.

Or instead used defensively? It still has good knockback, especially during those times where you're falling, they're coming at you from close range and you've got no time to pull off zair or dair.

No. N-air has been nerfed. I wouldn't say the knock-back is good. Your scenario is also a strange one.

Alright, another one. If I wanted to approach someone with zair, would I want to use a canceled zair or a normal one (assuming you're sh'ing)?

What's a "canceled zair" and "a normal one"?

 

[NO-IDea]

I beg to differ with Xyro. It's not that great, but it does have its uses.



No. N-air has been nerfed. I wouldn't say the knock-back is good. Your scenario is also a strange one.

By knockback I refer to nair pushing back and stunning enough so opponents can't respond, usually giving enough time for Samus to get in a jab combo or f-tilt once nair auto-cancels. It does have its uses XD.


And approaching with zair? Depends on how tall he is and how close you are. You'd obviously want the zair canceled if you're using it close range... followed by a bunch of other options. Aim for the head; if they're tall, you wouldn't have zair canceled.

 

[Xyro77]

I beg to differ with Xyro. It's not that great, but it does have its uses.



No. N-air has been nerfed. I wouldn't say the knock-back is good. Your scenario is also a strange one.



What's a "canceled zair" and "a normal one"?

cancel zair is the short version of zair.

 

[Crystanium]

By knockback I refer to nair pushing back and stunning enough so opponents can't respond, usually giving enough time for Samus to get in a jab combo or f-tilt once nair auto-cancels. It does have its uses XD.

Knock-back ≠ hitstun. N-air really isn't that great. I think a retreating d-air would be better. Any attack after n-air can be shielded, and landing in front of your opponent may end up being a shield-grab.

And approaching with zair? Depends on how tall he is and how close you are. You'd obviously want the zair canceled if you're using it close range... followed by a bunch of other options. Aim for the head; if they're tall, you wouldn't have zair canceled.

I know how to use z-air properly. I was just asking what you meant by "canceled z-air," but Xyro already covered that one.

 

[Xyro77]

Knock-back ≠ hitstun. N-air really isn't that great. I think a retreating d-air would be better. Any attack after n-air can be shielded, and landing in front of your opponent may end up being a shield-grab.



I know how to use z-air properly. I was just asking what you meant by "canceled z-air," but Xyro already covered that one.

cancelled zair is actually handy. if you keep cancelling it, the foe thinks u arnt capable of doing it right so they will come within distance. simple tricks work WONDERS if u plan it right

 

[Crystanium]

cancelled zair is actually handy. if you keep cancelling it, the foe thinks u arnt capable of doing it right so they will come within distance. simple tricks work WONDERS if u plan it right

I'm not saying it isn't handy. I just was wondering what "canceled z-air" meant, and you explained it in a succint manner. It's probably much more useful when you're on a stage like Luigi's Mansion with the walls, since it extends further.