Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[Xyro77]

dryn, relax. its a usless tech using a useless move.

 

[noahbaby94]

Can anyone explain to me why samus's roll is soo bad?

 

[Cherry64]

BACK ROLL/FORWARD ROLL: 4-23 / 44 Samus
The entire back roll lasts 44 frames(longest lasting back roll in the game) and Invincibility duration is from 4-23 frames.

First number is invincibility frames, last number is when it ends.
no other char has half their roll being able to get hit out of it.

 

[Hive]

cherry basically nailed it ^^ roll basically sux, only good on occasion imo to get out of tight situations by lowering your center of gravity or getting around an opponent, if anything...

 

[SuSa]

I wanted to see if I was right, and I guess I was. I don't consider it a three-stock unless I have three stocks.



Then I don't know what you're talking about. If you're talking about dash (not run) to u-smash, then that's what I am talking about. It doesn't give Samus any distance. It just covers the same distance a dash would.

It turns out I was tired or something and the extra (______ < about that long on screen.. its not much but its something) didn't actually exist.



SH > right as you land buffer a dash > Usmash

That is what I was talking about. For some reason it seemed to be going further then just dash > usmash...

Yes, jumping as a part of it but I'm not saying:

SH > quickly usmash

now then, let's just drop it because it was nothing,

 

[Cherry64]

Sounds good. Pretty sure it was dropped already lol

 

[-Crews-]

JC smash...




PLEASE FILL OUT THIS SWF SURVEY! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!

http://www.smashboards.com/announcement.php?f=22&a=165


i really need all of you to fill out this survey. SWF/MLG needs this data. Please answer the question TRUTHFULLY!!!!!!

if the link doesnt work, go to the announcement board on front page of SWF

i would love to fill this out but its not letting me. it says i dont have the right to or something like that.

 

[Cherry64]

Rejecteed. maybe it was supposed to be done in like 1 weeks time or something

 

[Metatitan]

is there a samus locater thread?

 

[Xyro77]

i would love to fill this out but its not letting me. it says i dont have the right to or something like that.

Rejecteed. maybe it was supposed to be done in like 1 weeks time or something

how about you READ my post. it tells you what to do if the link fails to work

 

[-Crews-]

how about you READ my post. it tells you what to do if the link fails to work

maybe you should be more specific. a failed link means it doesnt work period, not that there is a requirement to view it.

EDIT: what was all that for? the only good question on it was #17

 

[hdrevolution123]

what is up with the hitstun and hotbox during samuss up-B? Can anyone explain it?

 

[Cherry64]

what is up with the hitstun and hotbox during samuss up-B? Can anyone explain it?

Nope, but that s*** hurts though

 

[Xyro77]

maybe you should be more specific. a failed link means it doesnt work period, not that there is a requirement to view it.

EDIT: what was all that for? the only good question on it was #17

lol well for US, number 17 is the REASON why we should take this test. But the rest of the questions are for helping MLG/SWF know a bit more about us which means that will help them tailor a bit more to us in the future.

 

[SuSa]

Is there a thread that states which characters you have to wait to pummel if you want to hit?

IIRC Bowser/DK don't get hit if you start pummeling immediately after grabbing and mash A. Only a few pummels would actually hit.

 

[Cherry64]

Is there a thread that states which characters you have to wait to pummel if you want to hit?

IIRC Bowser/DK don't get hit if you start pummeling immediately after grabbing and mash A. Only a few pummels would actually hit.

I thought they got hit but it didn't do any damage, which brings up my Q of the day, Does the pummel that doesn't do any damage count for a move decay slot? :D

this could very well be shot down if SuSa is right and it totally misses.
I just rarely pummel boozer or DK...or even fight Dk :S

 

[Xyro77]

Moves exhaust ONLY when the deal damage. Phantom hits and the like DO NOT fill a slot.

 

[jpl315]

is it a bad idea to play with tap jump off when using samus (upb oos)?

 

[Xyro77]

yes.you are correct

 

[Hive]

Tap jump off is not such a big deal. I do at least and I do fine. You can still up b from the shield very quickly with practice and grab oos. I tend to prefer grab oos anyways in many situations because of the range and vulnerability.

 

[Cherry64]

Yes jpl it's a bad idea. Unless your Hive don't do it lol.
Grabbing oos is good yeah, I do it everynow and then, but I do Upb oos way more

 

[n00b]

Tap jump off is not such a big deal. I do at least and I do fine. You can still up b from the shield very quickly with practice and grab oos. I tend to prefer grab oos anyways in many situations because of the range and vulnerability.

you are suggesting grab OOS is better than up B? grab OOS = shield grab.
shield grab only works when moves have high shieldpush or are aerials spaced to retreat like mk's fair.. am i missing something?

 

[SuSa]

I thought they got hit but it didn't do any damage, which brings up my Q of the day, Does the pummel that doesn't do any damage count for a move decay slot? :D

this could very well be shot down if SuSa is right and it totally misses.
I just rarely pummel boozer or DK...or even fight Dk :S

It's like a ghost hit, and doesn't count for move decay.

It also does no damage.

It's pretty stupid....

 

[Metatitan]

As a yoshi main I have R set to jump for egg toss slide. I just press R +up b and i can up B outta shield just fine. I just don't have the invincibility frames or w/e happens when u have tap jump on.

 

[|RK|]

How soon does B-Air kill?

Sweetspotted, that is.

 

[Hive]

grab oos is better against moves that push back your shield, or in situations where screw attack would be more punishable/risky imo, grab oos actually doesn't do that much less damage than screw attack oos if you throw in a 1-2 jabs. Plus it sets up spacing better.

 

[Cherry64]

How soon does B-Air kill?

Sweetspotted, that is.

Not soon enough. On most with good DI like 160-170
heavies with good DI like 185-195
most of the cast with poor DI 140-150
heavies with bad DI 160-170

these are just guesses though

 

[IsmaR]

Not soon enough. On most with good DI like 160-170
heavies with good DI like 185-195
most of the cast with poor DI 140-150
heavies with bad DI 160-170

these are just guesses though

You've got to be ****ing kidding me.

 

[|RK|]

What.

You'd better be mixing that up with Toon Link's arrows >_>

 

[Popertop]

if you chase them off stage it will kill sooner.

predict/force the airdodge and bair, spike is even better

 

[pAce]

Can anyone give any advice on kill setups?

It's really bugging me. I can rack up the damage well but can sometimes struggle when trying KO them. It can mess up my game for me; I end up losing my focus and trying to force it, which I realise can be a bad idea. It doesn't help when I'm trying to be patient then realise they're on 200%.

 

[German Wolf]

Has Samus Super Armor?

 

[LanceStern]

Can anyone give any advice on kill setups?

It's really bugging me. I can rack up the damage well but can sometimes struggle when trying KO them. It can mess up my game for me; I end up losing my focus and trying to force it, which I realise can be a bad idea. It doesn't help when I'm trying to be patient then realise they're on 200%.

Dtilt and Plasma Shot are your best and most reliable killing moves. But if you become really predictable with it, good players WILL EXPLOIT IT and punish you. I learned that the hard way.

The best thing to do is learn when to shoot your plasma shot at different times. You can first barrage with missiles and then shoot it. Once they become accustomed to that, start mixing it up, like shooting when you're recovering onto the stage, or running and then quickly turning around jumping and shooting.

Dtilt just bring out in the middle of a combo or when they approach. It kills at different percentages. Check out my topic.

Another thing I've learned is when they get to HIGH percentages, use your forward tilt more. It comes out fast and usually knocks them off the stage, and that way you have a better chance of hitting them with a killing move because they are worried about recovery.

If it's Wario or MK you are having trouble with, do a grab to them. Let them release into the air and then shoot a plasma shot

 

[LanceStern]

Not soon enough. On most with good DI like 160-170
heavies with good DI like 185-195
most of the cast with poor DI 140-150
heavies with bad DI 160-170

these are just guesses though

bair kills a little faster than that.


EDIT: And sorry Dryn for the double post

 

[Cherry64]

Has Samus Super Armor?

Absolutely none, as for kill moves Lance stern totally nailed it. except the grab release, it'll hit occasionally but most of the time it'll miss due to them being able to air dodge it.
Still a viable way of shooting off a well aimed Charge shot.



EDIT: does it? hmm cool, I thought it was around 150- guess it;s like 130-140

 

[Pleather]

Kind of a stupid question, but hey, I guess that's what the Q and A thread is for;

I'll just keep it short, basically, I saw this thread, http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7561680 which shows Ness' new footstool combo. Samus can't make it back down fast enough from the footstool to keep the combo going. However, Ness uses his psi magnet to momentum cancel, and make it back down in time for a jab lock. I know Samus' morph bombs provide a bit of momentum canceling, and that may enable her to get back down fast enough, so just a thing to consider, if it hasn't already been brought up. However, I can see two possible problems, one, she could be in her morph ball for too long, and be unable to do anything anyways, and two, the explosion of the bomb might screw up the setup.

 

[LanceStern]

Absolutely none, as for kill moves Lance stern totally nailed it. except the grab release, it'll hit occasionally but most of the time it'll miss due to them being able to air dodge it.
Still a viable way of shooting off a well aimed Charge shot.



EDIT: does it? hmm cool, I thought it was around 150- guess it;s like 130-140

Wario can't air dodge it. MK can jump out of it (if you mash jump a lot) but I don't think he can air dodge it

 

[Cherry64]

it's happened to me bud. if you jump then fire it you have a better chance I think, but if they air release and you fire off the ground it shouldn't hit any of the cast


the bomb should be able to kill ness' jab lock yes. also we would DI away from ness after using our morph bomb I don't think any samus would stay in the same place after dropping a bomb

 

[Pleather]

the bomb should be able to kill ness' jab lock yes. also we would DI away from ness after using our morph bomb I don't think any samus would stay in the same place after dropping a bomb

Whoa, bad wording on my part, sorry. In the process of keeping my post short, I left out a few things, namely, that I was talking about a possible footstool combo for samus, not escaping another characters'. A few days ago there was a thread about possible footstool combos, except the idea was shot down when someone realized that after footstooling someone, samus jumps too high, and then falls too slow to be able to follow up with anything. My idea is to use a morph bomb as a momentum cancel immediately after footstooling, similar to the way that ness is able to utilize his psi magnet as a momentum cancel (in order to perform his footstool comb that I linked to in my last post), so that samus can initiate a jab lock on her opponent, or possibly a footstool combo similar to sheik's.

If it's still confusing, I'm probably at fault; I'm really tired right now.

 

[Cherry64]

Whoa, bad wording on my part, sorry. In the process of keeping my post short, I left out a few things, namely, that I was talking about a possible footstool combo for samus, not escaping another characters'. A few days ago there was a thread about possible footstool combos, except the idea was shot down when someone realized that after footstooling someone, samus jumps too high, and then falls too slow to be able to follow up with anything. My idea is to use a morph bomb as a momentum cancel immediately after footstooling, similar to the way that ness is able to utilize his psi magnet as a momentum cancel (in order to perform his footstool comb that I linked to in my last post), so that samus can initiate a jab lock on her opponent, or possibly a footstool combo similar to sheik's.

If it's still confusing, I'm probably at fault; I'm really tired right now.

LOL, my idea haha, we tried tat too, the opponent won't stay foot stooled for long enough, hence he can hit us before we can hit him even with the morph ball momentum cancel.

best idea I heard was jump then morph bomb it, then foot stool and another morph bomb to momentum cancel and drop a bomb. so it'd be like dropping 2 bombs, maybe that'd work as a cool foot stool who knows though

#EDIT: posted this 2 hours after you,who' moar tired