Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[SuSa]

If this works for Samus, a Samus/Zamus option (limited to certain stages) may be viable?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239350

I can't test it for you guys right now, but the switch isn't too hard to perform consistantly and I know being punished is the worst part about it. <_< but you know... yah.. may be helpful

 

[Serris]

If this works for Samus, a Samus/Zamus option (limited to certain stages) may be viable?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239350

I can't test it for you guys right now, but the switch isn't too hard to perform consistantly and I know being punished is the worst part about it. <_< but you know... yah.. may be helpful

It most likely won't work. Zero Suit Samus is programmed to have lag after aerial transformations.

 

[SuSa]

It most likely won't work. Zero Suit Samus is programmed to have lag after aerial transformations.

Really? oo I.. never.. knew... that...was worth saying. <_<

Although if you move, that might save you from being hit away from your armour...

 

[Serris]

Really? oo I.. never.. knew... that...was worth saying. <_<

Although if you move, that might save you from being hit away from your armour...

What I meant was:

Even if she does manage to move off the platform and fall, she'll probably lag out of the transformation.

 

[SuSa]

What I meant was:

Even if she does manage to move off the platform and fall, she'll probably lag out of the transformation.

Most likely is still worth testing. Even if you do, you move, which can prevent someone punishing you for switching. *And if they know about this your ****ed anyways so it's not important* then they decide "hit you or immediately go for armour on platform to use against you"

 

[Cherry64]

Lol any smart player would go for the armour. That can rack up damage instead of just hitting the person once after they change.

 

[SuSa]

Lol any smart player would go for the armour. That can rack up damage instead of just hitting the person once after they change.

Depends what % you are at. I'd go for the kill if you were stupid enough to switch. Then I could grab the armour.

<3 Snake's Fsmash

 

[_Pope_]

Im not sure if anyone tested this yet, but i just tried it with rolling, spot dodging, and neutral a and nothing worked. zs samus's whole get up animation when the armor pops out just happens right on the moving edge.

its too bad to, for some reason i find it very easy to switch and have been toying with the idea of learning zss just to try to fake out an opponent by doing this. a little trick like this would have helped too, but it seems to no avail.

 

[LanceStern]

What direction should I DI when Marth tries to fthrow -> fsmash combo me?

They say it's a true combo on Samus from 0 - 3%, after that, should I DI up or away? Both?

 

[Cherry64]

well for the first percent try not to DI away. you'll get tippered. I haven't had any marth do that to me at low percents though. like fro the start yes, but not after words

 

[mountain_tiger]

When Samsu does Bair, where is the sweetspot? I think it's at the tip of her foot, but for the life of me I hardly ever get it to land. Help here would be appreciated.

 

[Xyro77]

When Samsu does Bair, where is the sweetspot? I think it's at the tip of her foot, but for the life of me I hardly ever get it to land. Help here would be appreciated.

yes it is the tip.

 

[jpl315]

what aerial should be used after knockback?..nair is fastest but i use uair cuz nair is hard to cstick and cannot be used with A while holding a direction...

 

[Cherry64]

...what?

Xyro got it right, I think it might be a bit past the tip of foot but I'm not sure on that.

 

[jpl315]

for momentum cancel/DI...which aerial should be used?

 

[IsmaR]

U-air is good. N-air comes out faster but takes longer overall, I think. Z-air is fastest, but it usually does the early/faster death thing near the blast zones.

 

[NO-IDea]

You can't fast-fall z-air. If you're going to be hit up, z-air would not be the best option. Not to mention the early death near blast zones thing (Ismar.)

U-air is great. In fact, what ends up happening is you accidentally TDI up with the C-stick and inadvertantly u-air once you're sent off (if you do TDI... which you should.)

 

[Cherry64]

I use her Flamer Thrower for it. I'm pretty pro at DI'ing too

 

[LanceStern]

Some more things I've been pondering that maybe people can help me on...

1) Realizing there is a unique possibilty in Jab -> Hyphen Smash or Usmash Out of Shield

Has anyone ever tried these things and found some use?

2) Would it be possible to use Reverse-Neutral B as a form of momentum cancelling for Samus? I noticed a plasma shot gives her a little bit of push backwards... if we are smashed to the side is there a way to hit in the direction we're sailing and neutral B to stop our side momentum?

 

[NO-IDea]

Some more things I've been pondering that maybe people can help me on...

1) Realizing there is a unique possibilty in Jab -> Hyphen Smash or Usmash Out of Shield

Has anyone ever tried these things and found some use?

2) Would it be possible to use Reverse-Neutral B as a form of momentum cancelling for Samus? I noticed a plasma shot gives her a little bit of push backwards... if we are smashed to the side is there a way to hit in the direction we're sailing and neutral B to stop our side momentum?

Oos up+smash I've never tried. Can't think of any particular situation where it could work (they'll either FF the aerial or DI back so the u-smash will either miss or not connect with all hitboxes.)

Jab->Hyphen Smash works well if you're jabbing them while in the air. Little they can do about that if you connect the jab. Easy way to set this up would be FF u-air. Works better on taller characters though.

And haven't tried momentum canceling with specials. I saw innocenttroad's recent vids and am impressed, though.

 

[IsmaR]

Some more things I've been pondering that maybe people can help me on...

1) Realizing there is a unique possibilty in Jab -> Hyphen Smash or Usmash Out of Shield

Has anyone ever tried these things and found some use?

2) Would it be possible to use Reverse-Neutral B as a form of momentum cancelling for Samus? I noticed a plasma shot gives her a little bit of push backwards... if we are smashed to the side is there a way to hit in the direction we're sailing and neutral B to stop our side momentum?

U-smash is good for a lot of things. Just time it right. /notsohelpfuladvice
Really, it's dificult because they'll most likely DI out of it, or they'll dodge it entirely. You gotta catch them off guard, or wait for a good moment, like when you sheild a Bowser's Grab-Release>Down B. The Jab > Hyphen Smash does sound interesting, I'll try it out more.

And I've SD'd from the push of the Charge Shot knockback, so I'd think that it is possible. Definitely hard to pull off, but possible.

 

[LanceStern]

Perhaps we could see more into some of these things....

or how you can IMMEDIATELY down smash out of a MBB? There's a lot of things we haven't explored. Especially the jab -> hyphen smash, out of an uair or what I've been thinking about: the first hit of fair. Definitely not safe though.

The jab-> hyphen smash is really good.

 

[Bimz]

The jab-> hyphen smash is really good.

Its about time someone else said it

 

[NO-IDea]

It's only good versus some characters and if you time AND space it right.

 

[Cherry64]

I use U air to hyphen smash. aim the hyphen smash up though it hits better and does more knockback.

Jab Up smash is not good sadly, I used to try it lots but shield will come out before sliding upsmash does.

 

[Xyro77]

jab to pivot grab is funny as **** and it works more than people know.

 

[LanceStern]

Something found out, don't know if anyone mentioned it.

You know the technique in the combo video where Samus runs to the ledge, shields and then shoots the plasma shot while falling off? or you can pivot and turn around shooting it?

I found if you just run and stop so that Samus does a skidding stop at the ledge, you can get the same falling power shot off as shielding. I guess the shield is a good mind game though.

 

[NO-IDea]

I use U air to hyphen smash. aim the hyphen smash up though it hits better and does more knockback.

Jab Up smash is not good sadly, I used to try it lots but shield will come out before sliding upsmash does.

Agree with the latter. How else would you aim hyphen smash other than up? o.O

 

[Icyo]

What's you guys' opinion on Brinstar?

 

[IsmaR]

Both forms of Samus **** on it.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Well, small sides = Samus dying at mid %s

 

[_Pope_]

I would not mind playing on Brinstar, but would not pick it as well. With her ranged aerial attacks and heavier weight she can put up a good fight against other characters that prefer a level and non-intrusive field. Also, with the smaller sides I do not mind dying a bit faster if it means I can also KO someone quicker with her not-so-amazing kill moves. Its also nice to be able to come up from the bottom of the stage to poke with uair, fair, or up b. With the ledge in the center OoS screw attacks are also safer to pull off, which is always a good addition to any pro Samus stage.

The reasoning I would not pick it is simply that their are other counter picks that I would prefer, such as delfino, bf, pokemon stadium 1, sometimes frigate... Also, the lava can ruin otherwise good spikes, and heavy characters **** here as well.

 

[_Pope_]

I've got a question. Does anyone know how to consistently get the maximum range with Samus's pivot grab? I always seem to get varying distances on the slide, despite trying different timings when I hit Z and the analog stick.

also, does using Z to preform this grab make any difference as opposed to shield+A?

 

[n00b]

^ i think samus's pivot grab is best at one full dash away, or slightly less.

I would advise against using shield + A because brawl buffer system might recognize your input as a roll instead of a pivot grab. on wifi and when i'm rusty, this happens a lot and gets you way punished (maybe not as bad as if you whiff the grab tho )

remember tho that the pivot grab is pretty tricky, so it's good that you can vary the grab length -- it creates mixups. if you say, tick throw w/ jab to pivot grab, you can make it look like you're gonna retreat if you do a full dash's distance before the pivot grab, you can do an instant pivot grab so they can't react, etc. so even if you can consistently get the full range it doesn't mean it's necesasrily the best range to perform the grab imo.

 

[PK-ow!]

Xyro said recently (somewhere else) that while Samus' Fsmash is a KO move, it would always be decayed at relevant percents.

Why would that be? Considering it's poor range, and how its lag doesn't compare favorably to anything else in her arsenal, why would a player take that option? If it's just for damage, I would think patience would win out considering the need for this attack later. I find it's really good on "counter hit" (knockback multiplier on smash-charging characters); K.O.s well in that scenario.


EDIT: OH, about pivoting, I discovered this a while ago in the Wifi waiting room. If you dash, hit A, then hit shield + the direction change, you'll do the Dash Boosted Pivot Grab. It's alarmingly easy with Falco.... odd; but it's sorta hard with Link, just for example.
I see no reason it couldn't be perfected with practice. Just depends on whether you want to hit your trigger like that.

 

[Xyro77]

Xyro said recently (somewhere else) that while Samus' Fsmash is a KO move, it would always be decayed at relevant percents.

Why would that be? Considering it's poor range, and how its lag doesn't compare favorably to anything else in her arsenal, why would a player take that option?

Stutter steping and shield dashing f-smash works wonders. Its a GREAT way to build up melee damage.

 

[Cherry64]

Stutter steping and shield dashing f-smash works wonders. Its a GREAT way to build up melee damage.

it also gives Samus room to breathe, something she needs in any serious match.

oh man, so I found out this awesome rad 3-hit-combo with samus.

Falling Uair to a Jab to an U tilt, if done correctly the Utilt should hit them in the air, meanign a viable kill set up.

Hey Xyro, can you add a section to the ultimate samus guide, KILL SETUP's.

it'd be good info for everyone to know. plus everyone can tell how they generally find kills with Samus. it'd be nice to see what options are available to us ya know?

 

[LanceStern]

I tried that cherry64, also with a Fair -> jab -> utilt... with inhuman reflexes they might be able to do something *coughlevel9cpuscough* but everyone else takes it. You gotta find the right percentages though or else the jab knocks them out of range.

EDIT: You can also try uair -> jab -> fsmash tilted up, that's great as well

And guys, start tilting your fsmash up. I'm sad that my topic has fallen to the next page, but fsmash titled up has great knockback and damage, plus you cover your front AND a little above you. it could accidentally kill them at a good percentage ( ~ 100% if they are near the ledge)

I generally don't like to try and punish people with fsmash because it gets powershielded, I tend to use foward tilt for the speed and range. Fsmash always seems to be a hair too short in terms of range and I get punished instead

 

[daisho]

Hi. I just started to main Samus (for low tiers) and am using her on the aib ladder.

When I lose (which is always since im not very good yet) I am always at a loss of which stage to CP.

What are generally good Samus stages?

 

[_Pope_]

My personal top three are bf, delfino, and smashville, because they attune to her strengths very well. Stages with platforms generally always help Samus as she can use her multi-hit ariels to punish from below while also allowing for safer recovery options with her screw attack. Smashville is good for this reason, and its length also allows for liberal projectile use.

Stages that can be passed through on the bottom (delfino, brinstar, halberd...) are also nice for shield poking and zair use from far distances.

Overall my top counter-pick stage would be delfino, because it covers all of the above advantages, has low ceilings for earlier dtilt kills, and has water hazards for those sweet spike's.