Social Skyworld Hub - "Soaring through the Skys"

[TMNTSSB4]

Nah, that Falcon Punch theory is better.

What if Marth was Captain Falcon, and the original died?

 

[The Merc]

What if Marth was Captain Falcon, and the original died?

Captain Falcon can never die.

 

[LancerStaff]

Oh yeah, Great Bay was photoshopped.

And Friday is apparently Dr. Mario's birthday. So uh... confirmed?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Captain Falcon can never die.

He died in the anime...and in someone's heart.

 

[The Merc]

He died in the anime...and in someone's heart.

Or did?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJLSzsEjpWM

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Or did?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJLSzsEjpWM

This song always makes me think about Gravity Falls.

 

[The Merc]

This song always makes me think about Gravity Falls.

People keep mentioning that show. What is it exactly?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

People keep mentioning that show. What is it exactly?

It's a mystery show. That's the only easy way to explain it without spoilers.

 

[Tito Maas]

Who's that Pit player from Spain again?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Who's that Pit player from Spain again?

Marcbri

 

[Tito Maas]

Oh yeah, Great Bay was photoshopped.

And Friday is apparently Dr. Mario's birthday. So uh... confirmed?

Any info on frame traps for Pit?

 

[Shaya]

in case you missed it: http://smashboards.com/threads/merging-the-pit-and-dark-pit-subforums.412004/

 

[TMNTSSB4]

in case you missed it: http://smashboards.com/threads/merging-the-pit-and-dark-pit-subforums.412004/

Well never forget. Hope The edgers(?) can step their game up when they crossover with us.

 

[Tito Maas]

Well never forget. Hope The edgers(?) can step their game up when they crossover with us.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The edgers is an actual thing for Dark Pit in Vegas.

 

[LancerStaff]

Any info on frame traps for Pit?

You mean the interrupted aerials with rage thing? Haven't had a chance to test since my friend's been busy. Not looking good anyway since every hit has a different angle... It'd literally be a 3-4 frame window to get the right hitbox.

 

[Tito Maas]

You mean the interrupted aerials with rage thing? Haven't had a chance to test since my friend's been busy. Not looking good anyway since every hit has a different angle... It'd literally be a 3-4 frame window to get the right hitbox.

Hm, no I don't think I mean those, but I don't know a whole lot about frame traps or their executions and purposes so I'm not sure how to describe them to you

 

[Koiba]

A frame trap is Almost the opposite of a blockstring. A frame trap introduces a punishable gap in a string of attacks that can beat mashing and O/S crouch-teching. From a mind game perspective, frame traps can entice the opponent to attempt to press button and can produce a counterhit (for big damage).

----------------------------------------------

"A sequence of attacks designed to make the opponent think they have a good opportunity to attack, when they are actually in a poor position to attack."

-------------------------------------------------

Best example of one: Shiek's fair to jab on shield. After the fair, you may think you have time to shield grab but in reality the fair ends in the air and she has time to jab you out of your grab. I'll try to find a video.

Edit: Whoops thought this was a melee post. In any case, explains it a bit below too and hopefully someone comments on my edit likely mistakes since I'm not the best at melee :/. I guess the frame data meta hasn't been exactly fleshed out, and neither have tech traps, but you guys should look that up another time. This knowledge should carry throughout the games, and M2K is a notable user of frame traps in Brawl.

Basically though, here's how a simple frame trap, like Shiek's works.

Shiek's jump Airborne on frame 4 SH air time: 38 Earliest FF: 20 SH FF air time: 27

Shiek's fair: Total: 33 Hit: 5-7 Auto cancel: <4, >11 Landlag: 16 L canceled: 8

Shiek's jab: Total: 17 Hit: 2-3 IASA: 16 Window for second jab: 3-25 Second slice begins: 10 (or later)

Shiek's Grab (Easiest one I could find.) Total: 30 Grab: 7-8

Hypothetical Frame Perfect(?): Assuming M2K, Shiek 1, is playing Flash, Shiek 2, here's how a frame trap might work frame perfectly. M2K short hops (assuming fastfall too), fairs on frame 19 (which hits on frames 23-25), and fastfalls on frame 20. He will hit the ground 27 frame after the initial short hop and 2 frames after the fair hits the shield (frame 7 of fair). The auto cancel is 5-10 so M2K will auto cancel the fair on frame 9, with 4 easy frames of land lag. On the 5th frame, M2K jabs Flash which hits frames 6-7.

There are 8 total frames. With Shiek's grab, Flash has like 1 frame to grab, and with reacting as soon as possible wil almost CERTAINLY not get the grab in time. In a more likely scenario, A Shiek will not hit the auto cancel and L cancel and jab a bit later with probably 10 frames added. Big whoop. That's stil inhuman unless you know what the Shiek is going to do in which case you just punish the jab. I probably made this more confusing or screwed up, but I'm trying to learn too!

http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-hitboxes-and-frame-data.299984/

---------------------

This is the only correct answer thus far. Same with Falco drill to shine on opponents shield or Falcon knee to gentleman on opponents shield. If the opponent tries to shield grab, they will get hit because the grab animation will start (and in turn your shield will drop) but will not complete because there isn't enough space between the shine and drill for the grab to become active. So you get hit.

As opposed to two moves that are super close together (Peach float canceled nair into jab?) where you can't even get your grab to come out or start because it's sort of a "true combo" on your shield (often colloquially referred to as a 'block string' in other games).

It's usually supposed to be for SF but it can be in Smash

 

[Tito Maas]

Dark Pit Amiibo coming tomorrow, dudes! Best Buy exclusive. No online pre-orders, local pick-up only, one per customer, and first come, first serve basis.

Better go early. Don't end up missing out on Dark Pit because you think he's not popular and you can get him whenever or some other foolishness like that.

Super excited!

 

[Tito Maas]

A frame trap is Almost the opposite of a blockstring. A frame trap introduces a punishable gap in a string of attacks that can beat mashing and O/S crouch-teching. From a mind game perspective, frame traps can entice the opponent to attempt to press button and can produce a counterhit (for big damage).

----------------------------------------------

"A sequence of attacks designed to make the opponent think they have a good opportunity to attack, when they are actually in a poor position to attack."

-------------------------------------------------

Best example of one: Shiek's fair to jab on shield. After the fair, you may think you have time to shield grab but in reality the fair ends in the air and she has time to jab you out of your grab. I'll try to find a video.

Edit: Whoops thought this was a melee post. In any case, explains it a bit below too and hopefully someone comments on my edit likely mistakes since I'm not the best at melee :/. I guess the frame data meta hasn't been exactly fleshed out, and neither have tech traps, but you guys should look that up another time. This knowledge should carry throughout the games, and M2K is a notable user of frame traps in Brawl.

Basically though, here's how a simple frame trap, like Shiek's works.

Shiek's jump Airborne on frame 4 SH air time: 38 Earliest FF: 20 SH FF air time: 27

Shiek's fair: Total: 33 Hit: 5-7 Auto cancel: <4, >11 Landlag: 16 L canceled: 8

Shiek's jab: Total: 17 Hit: 2-3 IASA: 16 Window for second jab: 3-25 Second slice begins: 10 (or later)

Shiek's Grab (Easiest one I could find.) Total: 30 Grab: 7-8

Hypothetical Frame Perfect(?): Assuming M2K, Shiek 1, is playing Flash, Shiek 2, here's how a frame trap might work frame perfectly. M2K short hops (assuming fastfall too), fairs on frame 19 (which hits on frames 23-25), and fastfalls on frame 20. He will hit the ground 27 frame after the initial short hop and 2 frames after the fair hits the shield (frame 7 of fair). The auto cancel is 5-10 so M2K will auto cancel the fair on frame 9, with 4 easy frames of land lag. On the 5th frame, M2K jabs Flash which hits frames 6-7.

There are 8 total frames. With Shiek's grab, Flash has like 1 frame to grab, and with reacting as soon as possible wil almost CERTAINLY not get the grab in time. In a more likely scenario, A Shiek will not hit the auto cancel and L cancel and jab a bit later with probably 10 frames added. Big whoop. That's stil inhuman unless you know what the Shiek is going to do in which case you just punish the jab. I probably made this more confusing or screwed up, but I'm trying to learn too!

http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-hitboxes-and-frame-data.299984/

---------------------

This is the only correct answer thus far. Same with Falco drill to shine on opponents shield or Falcon knee to gentleman on opponents shield. If the opponent tries to shield grab, they will get hit because the grab animation will start (and in turn your shield will drop) but will not complete because there isn't enough space between the shine and drill for the grab to become active. So you get hit.

As opposed to two moves that are super close together (Peach float canceled nair into jab?) where you can't even get your grab to come out or start because it's sort of a "true combo" on your shield (often colloquially referred to as a 'block string' in other games).

It's usually supposed to be for SF but it can be in Smash

So does Pit have any?

 

[Koiba]

So does Pit have any?

Maybe fast fall fair to gentlemen to whatever you wanna do?

tbh I'm not to sure of the definition itself :/

My Smash Corner talks about it a bit in this

2:11

So you're trying to make the opponent think they're safe when really they're not

has a frame trap with uair and dair

Once she does an uair the opponent might airdoge which can lead into a dair because of the airdoge endlag

 

[Tito Maas]

Maybe fast fall fair to gentlemen to whatever you wanna do?

tbh I'm not to sure of the definition itself :/

My Smash Corner talks about it a bit in this

2:11

So you're trying to make the opponent think they're safe when really they're not

has a frame trap with uair and dair

Once she does an uair the opponent might airdoge which can lead into a dair because of the airdoge endlag

Oh. Well it doesn't seem like frame trapping is a thing like jab locking, more of just an opportunity to be taken advantage of.

 

[LancerStaff]

Update is live... But I don't have my friend's 3DS for lag testing. I'm kinda late to the party and I'm downloading now. Updating my topic while it goes.

 

[Koiba]

Well tonight will be interesting...

 

[Tito Maas]

Just downloaded the patch, but I'll wait for Lancer's confirmations before I say anything about any changes.

Until then, I'll be enjoying these new stages

 

[Tito Maas]

Fox's infinite jab gimmick is gone. Yippee!

 

[Koiba]

Wish I had access to my brother's capture card to see the frame data but no .-.

*sigh*

Maybe after he finishes his stuff

 

[LancerStaff]

Either I'm crazy or Electroshock got a massive buff.

...I'm assuming I'm crazy.

Wait I am. Looking at the aerial % and doing the grounded move.

 

[Koiba]

Well arrow does 4% uncharged now

 

[Koiba]

And just for some help here's old frame data for comparison

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Dark Pit

And here's

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Pit

I've got a feeling that people already have this bookmarked but I'll show it anyway

 

[The Merc]

A frame trap is Almost the opposite of a blockstring. A frame trap introduces a punishable gap in a string of attacks that can beat mashing and O/S crouch-teching. From a mind game perspective, frame traps can entice the opponent to attempt to press button and can produce a counterhit (for big damage).

----------------------------------------------

"A sequence of attacks designed to make the opponent think they have a good opportunity to attack, when they are actually in a poor position to attack."

-------------------------------------------------

Best example of one: Shiek's fair to jab on shield. After the fair, you may think you have time to shield grab but in reality the fair ends in the air and she has time to jab you out of your grab. I'll try to find a video.

Edit: Whoops thought this was a melee post. In any case, explains it a bit below too and hopefully someone comments on my edit likely mistakes since I'm not the best at melee :/. I guess the frame data meta hasn't been exactly fleshed out, and neither have tech traps, but you guys should look that up another time. This knowledge should carry throughout the games, and M2K is a notable user of frame traps in Brawl.

Basically though, here's how a simple frame trap, like Shiek's works.

Shiek's jump Airborne on frame 4 SH air time: 38 Earliest FF: 20 SH FF air time: 27

Shiek's fair: Total: 33 Hit: 5-7 Auto cancel: <4, >11 Landlag: 16 L canceled: 8

Shiek's jab: Total: 17 Hit: 2-3 IASA: 16 Window for second jab: 3-25 Second slice begins: 10 (or later)

Shiek's Grab (Easiest one I could find.) Total: 30 Grab: 7-8

Hypothetical Frame Perfect(?): Assuming M2K, Shiek 1, is playing Flash, Shiek 2, here's how a frame trap might work frame perfectly. M2K short hops (assuming fastfall too), fairs on frame 19 (which hits on frames 23-25), and fastfalls on frame 20. He will hit the ground 27 frame after the initial short hop and 2 frames after the fair hits the shield (frame 7 of fair). The auto cancel is 5-10 so M2K will auto cancel the fair on frame 9, with 4 easy frames of land lag. On the 5th frame, M2K jabs Flash which hits frames 6-7.

There are 8 total frames. With Shiek's grab, Flash has like 1 frame to grab, and with reacting as soon as possible wil almost CERTAINLY not get the grab in time. In a more likely scenario, A Shiek will not hit the auto cancel and L cancel and jab a bit later with probably 10 frames added. Big whoop. That's stil inhuman unless you know what the Shiek is going to do in which case you just punish the jab. I probably made this more confusing or screwed up, but I'm trying to learn too!

http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-hitboxes-and-frame-data.299984/

---------------------

This is the only correct answer thus far. Same with Falco drill to shine on opponents shield or Falcon knee to gentleman on opponents shield. If the opponent tries to shield grab, they will get hit because the grab animation will start (and in turn your shield will drop) but will not complete because there isn't enough space between the shine and drill for the grab to become active. So you get hit.

As opposed to two moves that are super close together (Peach float canceled nair into jab?) where you can't even get your grab to come out or start because it's sort of a "true combo" on your shield (often colloquially referred to as a 'block string' in other games).

It's usually supposed to be for SF but it can be in Smash

Maybe fast fall fair to gentlemen to whatever you wanna do?

tbh I'm not to sure of the definition itself :/

My Smash Corner talks about it a bit in this

2:11

So you're trying to make the opponent think they're safe when really they're not

has a frame trap with uair and dair

Once she does an uair the opponent might airdoge which can lead into a dair because of the airdoge endlag

So it's a state in which the opponent as no or very little options to react?

 

[Koiba]

So it's a state in which the opponent as no or very little options to react?

Um kinda?

It's where you try to make your opponent think they're safe when doing a move when actually they're not safe

Look at the Shiek and Rosa example

idk SF knowledge

 

[The Merc]

Um kinda?

It's where you try to make your opponent think they're safe when doing a move when actually they're not safe

Look at the Shiek and Rosa example

idk SF knowledge

I did. I got really confused.

 

[LancerStaff]

's arrows do consistent damage throughout their range, more KB. Does 3.8 min charge and 10.5 max then and now. The Silver Bow would be viable in KIU like this.

Popup Dair KOs 15+% later. So probably less KB > more combos. Looking at Pit's...

Sweet back Dsmash, Nair, sour Bair, and Dtilt appear to have less KB, but I'm not confident in saying there's a change until I see it side-by-side. Which I can't do until tomorrow or the weekend...

 

[Tito Maas]

Tournament Mode is online only??

lmao at the example tournament lobbies, though: "The Salt Mine", "No Items, Fox Only", and "Come At Mii, Bro"

Good to see Nintendo is hip with its community even if it doesn't support it lol

 

[LancerStaff]

Sweet back Dsmash KOs 6% later, to 110%. ...Don't get it, but okay.

Popup Dair KOs 22% later from 177% to 199%. Doesn't appear to be an angle change... Combos a bit longer now, but KOs much later. Most shouldn't live that long anyway, I guess. "Dead zone" in combos have existed at low % before, but freshness keeps it from happening in a real match. Might not work as the first hit...

Debunked everything else besides Dark Pit's arrows. Pit's do the same KB but do the same damage throughout. ...Was it always like this? Most projectiles don't do this. Autocancels are the same, did testing on Skyloft's slanted platform like usual. Few more things to test, namely customs and exact numbers on Edgy's arrows.

Also note that either somebody did some complex math, or it was just the KB that got changed on Pittwo's arrows. 10.5 gets rounded down, anything higher gets rounded up.

Ever the sceptic, I'm not updating the topic until I compare side-by-side. Go ahead and pop the champagne and say they weren't nerfed overall for now.

 

[Tito Maas]

DAir kill% nerf I don't care about. Should still be fine on spikes. Hopefully, in terms of combos, it's a notable difference

Arrows, pointless

 

[LancerStaff]

Okay, so all but 17 characters got changes... That's kinda crazy. Not surprised these two finally got changes.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Okay, so all but 17 characters got changes... That's kinda crazy. Not surprised these two finally got changes.

After all this time, Pit gets buffed...and noone calls Sakurai bias? Amen

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit's Upperdash KOs 4% sooner. Weird, but okay. No aerial change.

Arrow customs have consistent damage throughout the range, no noticeable changes.

Dark Pit's arrows KO 9% sooner at max charge, and 36% quicker with none. (Note to self, Piercing Bow kills at 161%.)

Guardian Orbitars come out quicker, Amplifing and Impact Orbitars are untouched. Previously Guardian and Amplifing had the same startup.