Kodachrome
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 14, 2008
- Messages
- 289
Sad. 
I was hoping to get my first guess on the button.
I was hoping to get my first guess on the button.
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Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
vanderzant
Smash Journeyman
**** well now I'm convinced it's Olimar. SP really shouldn't have posted a thankyou section.
But I still hope it's TL!
But I still hope it's TL!
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
hmm nice find kupo15! cant believe i didn't think of looking in to DDD's thread (thats where that post was right?)
should be Olimar.
HAS to be Olimar. Or that hint is misleading us.
My guess: Olimar.
(thats where that post was right?)should be Olimar.
HAS to be Olimar. Or that hint is misleading us.
My guess: Olimar.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Thanks. Yea, it was in the DDD SBR discussion that was just posted what do you know lol. And if SP was trying to be misleading, then what a nice hint huh?hmm nice find kupo15! cant believe i didn't think of looking in to DDD's thread
should be Olimar.
HAS to be Olimar. Or that hint is misleading us.
My guess: Olimar.
kupo15
Smash Hero
I hope Im wrong and its Pit!!!!! 
But he said he practically used Overswarms post and if you look at the thread, he came in late from a vac or something and seemed to be in a rush to produce a hint.
But he said he practically used Overswarms post and if you look at the thread, he came in late from a vac or something and seemed to be in a rush to produce a hint.
vanderzant
Smash Journeyman
My only concern is the part of the hint that says "But what happened? It seems like this character hasn't been holding up in tournaments"
Look at Ankoku's Character Rankings List. Olimar comes in at 5th and is in the "A" tier/ranking. This information contradicts with the hint, AND since it says the hint was borrowed from Ankoku's post, it is unlikely that Ankoku would say "What happened to Olimar?"
Yet then again, I could be looking into the hint too much...
EDIT: Beaten by DanGR
Look at Ankoku's Character Rankings List. Olimar comes in at 5th and is in the "A" tier/ranking. This information contradicts with the hint, AND since it says the hint was borrowed from Ankoku's post, it is unlikely that Ankoku would say "What happened to Olimar?"
Yet then again, I could be looking into the hint too much...
EDIT: Beaten by DanGR
kupo15
Smash Hero
Yea, I didn't see Ankoku post in the DDD SBR thread. But my conclusion is based off of half the help for the hint. We will just have to see on Monday I think. Pit better be next after this one. grrrr!
takeurlife2
Smash Ace
olimar does well in tourneys.
Kodachrome
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 14, 2008
- Messages
- 289
*starts fox chant*
<_<
>_>
<_<
>_>
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
I wonder if it would be Lucas. I'm not saying it is, but if.
jiovanni007
Smash Ace
The next one is Toon Link no doubt, he was at first debated to be best in game but since tourneys started, his standings are only average. He's dangerous at long range due to 3 different projectiles and up close due to a sword.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
He's not average at long-range, what are you talking about? He is one of the best long-range characters in the game.
ducky285
Smash Journeyman
He said his tourney results are average. Read his post again.
Shök
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 2,251
ducky285
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, he wasn't calling his projectiles average.
kackamee
Smash Master
I think It may be Lucas or Ness
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
I'm pretty sure he edited his post, I could've sworn it said average before...
Either way, I'm pretty sure he's basing his placement on the tier list according to his main strength, which is projectiles.
jiovanni007
Smash Ace
I said his tournament rankings were average, I didn't edit my post. It says at the bottom of the post when someone edits their post. Last time I checked, Toon Link is still dangerous up close as well. He just lacks the tournament standings at the moment to make it as high as originally hoped.
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
there might be a surprise again and be a totally different character
old king coal
Smash Journeyman
i thought of toon link b4 i saw the above posts. i still have my doubts about tl because he is best a medium range. at close range toon link is weak
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Ok, so let's work through this...
Here's the cast minus those already done (I can explain why I eliminated them if anyone is interested...)
Bowser
Captain Falcon
DK
Fox
Ice Climbers
Ike
Jiggly
Kirdy
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Marth
Ness
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
Charizard (separated for the sake of discussion)
Ivysaur
Squirtle
Samas
Sheik
Sonic
TL
Wario
Yoshi
Zelda
ZSS
Eliminate everyone without reasonable power in both (I'll justify the removals if required)
Fox
Ice Climbers
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
Ivysaur
Sheik
TL
Zelda
Basically, these chars got a lot of hype about their buffs/abilities. All have good Ko potential.
Lucas
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
TL
Zelda
Source: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954
Best fit:
TL
Zelda
Both have incredible match-ups but are considered E rank.
less likely:
Pikachu
Lucas
Both don't have as good match-ups.
TL seems to lose out the most here because most of his biggest advantages occur regardless of match-up (godly bair for example), but they all have this to a degree. I'd say Zelda has it especially though, because of her sweet-spotting which is always situational and while powerful, is very difficult on certain chars (like the earthbounders), but pretty easy on the larger characters.
Pikachu and Lucas both have definite relfector issues and they both have an array of situational moves. Overall, I'd say Lucas is more so due to his highly punishable but powerful up-smash.
I'll also rate this less then the earlier issue because there seems to be less of a gap.
So still (numbers designate order):
1. Zelda
2. TL
3. Lucas
4. Pikachu
This could be construed two ways, either the character has a number of poor match-ups, or a number of bare advantages.
The "few flaws" comment suggests the latter, but the former is still a valid possibility.
Since they all have Dedede advantages in match-ups, there's no elimination based on that, so we can maintain the previous list...
1. Zelda
2. TL
3. Lucas
4. Pikachu
Those are the possibilities for next week in order of most likely to least.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Olimar could be another possibility.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
No way, check out where I eliminated him, that should tell the story.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
Sadly, the BR has discussions of EVERY character, but we can only see 10 of those threads atm. The info in the hint is presumably a summary of what has been said in those threads. OS comments a lot in the BR, it's not surprising to see his name pop up as a credit.
--not to mention that Olimar is #15 and #5 in the overall and summer '08 character rankings, which leaves him with more than a "few" exceptions
Grunt
Smash Master
Here's the secret: the SBR makes the clues so vague, that they could fit a multitude of people. so when everyone suggests one person (in this case, TL) they suddenly switch it to some other person who fits, that no one guessed. (like maybe, Pikachu, or Zelda).
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
actually, this is where your logic stumbles. That's only the summer '08 rankings (notice that somehow snake only has 5 wins, but he's considered a tourny powerhouse) go to http://theviashino.com/ssbb/oldrankings.txt for the overall rankings. In those rankings TL/Zelda/Pika/Lucas are C(18)/C(22)/B(10)/C(19). Right off the bat that should eliminate pika.
--what was the rationale for eliminating ness? "decent" KOs?
-uair
-dair
-bair
-fsmash
-pkthunder2
-nair?
we aren't really looking for a character that can KO, we're looking for a character that doesn't appear to have all that many KO moves, but can still pull them off.
shhhhhh, that spoils the fun of guessing (and the presumptive trollings of people claiming Ike). btw, who are you guessing
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
I was working off Ankoku's rankings thread
I wonder where the variance came from.
Ok, then Pika is off.
The contenders are:
1. Zelda
2. Toon Link
3. Lucas
Actually no, that wasn't the rational. He didn't get enough hype to justify him, too many people basically said "same old ness". Granted, he's obviously different then melee, but nobody was suggesting him for a top (or high) tier character. Initially, all the characters I mentioned had a great deal of buzz surrounding them and their considerable buffs.
Really, that got more eliminations then KO ability because most of the characters could ko decently (granted, it leans towards characters with ways to Ko surprisingly, aka dramatic sweetspots, another reason why Zelda tops the list), however, most of the characters weren't very hyped as having enormous potential.
Ness was too low-key around the release, so was Ice Climbers (obviously Ko ability didn't result in mr and ms. chaingrab to spike at 0), fox, and others.
So, no. I remember all those kill moves...especially bair... *grumble grumble* bad angle, can't DI *grumble grumble*
I'll be glad to explain any other removals.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Except it doesn't make sense at that part. Olimar has some surprisingly powerful KOs, even against heavy characters.
cultofrubik
Smash Journeyman
[Forgive me, I haven't bothered to read the last few pages]
Toon Link for this next update. Seems to fit the description perfectly.
Toon Link for this next update. Seems to fit the description perfectly.
Mikezor
Smash Journeyman
Definitely Sheik, Samus, or Yoshi. NO DOUBT IN MY MIND, NONE.
Help!
Smash Journeyman
I say fox
10 char
10 char
vanderzant
Smash Journeyman
I'm still leading more towards my original guess TL for two reasons
1. If you look at the early pages of the Official Tier Discussion, TL is in Top/High in almost every (serious) list posted, and is still often put at high tier in recent lists (despite performing poorly at a competitive level)
2. On the Smash Australia forums (small group of aussie brawlers who got it early from the US) all topics on Toon Link discuss how broken he is (this was posted around April/May). Heck, there is even a thread that says:
(Title) "How to win with TL"
(Message) 1. Pick TL in the character selection screen
1. If you look at the early pages of the Official Tier Discussion, TL is in Top/High in almost every (serious) list posted, and is still often put at high tier in recent lists (despite performing poorly at a competitive level)
2. On the Smash Australia forums (small group of aussie brawlers who got it early from the US) all topics on Toon Link discuss how broken he is (this was posted around April/May). Heck, there is even a thread that says:
(Title) "How to win with TL"
(Message) 1. Pick TL in the character selection screen
Grunt
Smash Master
TL or Pika
NC-Echo
Smash Lord
I may be slightly biased but I think that description sounds a whole lot like Olimar.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
But I didn't eliminate him at KOs...
He was on the list at the "looked good early and has KO potential" stage of elimination, the list of candidates was...
Again, take a look at where he got eliminated, it certainly wasn't there.
It does, until you check his tournament standings...
Hint hint x After Dawn x
Pika has been getting too much love in the tournies recently. TL is a definite possibility (as is Lucas) but as I pointed out, Zelda is more likely.
NC-Echo
Smash Lord
I've been to several big tournaments and at every one of them I am the only Olimar. I know there are a few players out there right now playing him but I have been keeping up with the Olimar community quite a bit and there are not very many of us.
Anth0ny
Smash Master
Definately looks like Zelda for next week.