Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Noipoi]

I never understood why people dislike Kiddy.

Cuz he’s ugly and lumpy and creepy and he’s weird and I don’t like him

 

[SnakeFighter64]

-He felt a bit redundant as the big contrast to Dixie when many felt DK should have been the playable partner in DKC3

See I can understand most of these, although I think comparing him to Jarek is overkill, i've been in the MK fandom and people hate that guy.

But this one in particular is one that I understand why the devs didn't do it. They wanted Dixie to be the star of this game. And if DK was there he would just overshadow her. But they still wanted a Kong who largely played like a normal/standard Kong to team up with her so Kiddy is the result. Could they have done something different? Yeah of course. But I understand why they did this.

 

[dream1ng]

Nintendo's standard practice for release and announcement has been ever changing since the Wii U. I honestly don't think there's solid enough precedence in modern times to call for both a summer and fall direct in specifically the first year of a consoles life. Nintendo could just as easily decide to hold off on some of their back catalogue to survey tariffs or smt as much as they could decide to break the two directs back half year 1 rule.

Since the Wii U?
2013: E3 Presentation / Oct, Nov, and Dec Directs (they were smaller then)
2014: E3 Presentation / Late Aug & Nov Directs
2015: E3 Presentation / Nov Direct (no general Directs earlier likely due to company shakeup after Iwata's passing)
2016: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct (3DS only, Wii U had basically nothing) - last pre-Switch year
2017: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2018: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2019: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2020: covid
2021: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2022: June Direct Mini / Sep Direct
2023: June Direct / Sep Direct
2024: June Direct / late Aug partner Direct - last pre-Switch 2 year

No precedent? Fr?

I mean, makes sense, but I still definitely could see them bouncing a fall direct in favor of a late summer showcase that they'd follow up with a January Direct. Since Mario Kart will have already launched and Prime 4 will be looking at its fourth gameplay trailer, that kinda just leaves Kirby and DK to really dive deep into. I feel like keeping up a showcase every few months might be hype but will lead to them showing their hand too early.

I'm sorry buy ramping up during the summer and then ramping down during the holidays only to pick things back up again next year is... kinda backwards. You're suggesting they advertise less during the busiest, most active consumer part of the year. For the first holiday their top priority is on the market?

It's not about "not having anything to reveal", it's about hammering home the things they will be selling. You need to keep selling them during the holidays; people spend more and competition is higher. Also, they will have stuff to reveal, even if it's mostly 2026 stuff at that point.

I want to make it clear I don't think this is at all a crazy prediction for two directs or anything, I just see it as an option on the table rather than definitively what's probably going to happen. Nintendo could choose a lot of opportune times to announce or show something off, and they pretty often leave us scratching our heads wondering as to why they didn't do something.

I mean "Nintendo is unpredictable" only goes so far when they actually are predictable in this regard. And the reason they predictable do a fall Direct is because of its utility for the holiday season.

Like, I can't say a fall general Direct not happening is impossible, they could divide it into game specific and partner showcases, but... I would be very very very surprised if they opt against having the Direct that gets the most eyes on the first holiday of their new system.

Sakurai noted it as big because of the hands he needed on deck to make it. Of course he wouldn't have described the game as small if it was actually a smaller title, but if we're rolling with that logic he presumably would have gone down a different route in describing the game in the first place. If you want something a bit more concrete, I guess the best I've got is that Bamco's studio hirings and structure don't seem to imply Air Riders is a B team game. By all accounts aside from maybe timing, this does seem to be a big title since its got seemingly the same amount of support Smash itself has (if you buy that 2D action title is Smash, that is).

Ok, and the Xenoblade team has over 140 people, but that doesn't make the IP something Nintendo would poise as its big holiday title, because it just has a lower ceiling than its bigger IPs.

That's why I brought them up. 'Kirby Spinoff' is apt but doesn't quite convey the scope of Air Riders when the same label often applies to titles like Super Kirby Clash, y'know?

Well I don't dispute there's a range, but showing how low the bar is doesn't in turn raise the bar. The bar is just set by the reception of the game. It's hard to compare Air Ride commercially since there's only been one title on a system that didn't have any mainline Kirby games, but even the mainline Kirby games, while successful, are not tentpole holiday game successful when they've got Mario and Pokemon in their pocket.

This statement kinda confuses me tbh. Kirby Forgotten Land sold double what Metroid Dread did and that was a holiday title. Looking at series like FE, Yoshi, Pikmin, etc. Kirby still outpaces them.

I mean, to put my point in perspective, Xenoblade as a franchise is listed by Google as having sold around 9 million copies by the end of 2023, and Forgotten Land as a game is currently sitting at 7.5 million sales. This is definitely just semantics at this point, and that isn't a knock against Xenoblade just cause it hasn't sold enough, but I really don't see Kirby as one of Nintendo's minor Ips, nor as an odd series to take the Holiday Title mantle, moreso it just looks like that because of how many titles the series tends to put out on the smaller scale. In that sense, I would say its best comparison might actually be Pokemon.

But showing how Kirby sells better than Xenoblade or the others isn't the argument (and I didn't claim otherwise), because that doesn't mean it sells as well as Nintendo's A-tier. Xenoblade or Metroid are likewise games that aren't, under normal circumstances, the big holiday game level. It doesn't make them minor, small series, it's not that black and white, it just means there are much bigger options.

You keep raising points about how other games are less successful, like these other IPs or other Kirby spin-offs, but the point is that Air Ride isn't as successful as the tentpole holiday games. I could point to games less successful than Xenoblade, it doesn't make Xenoblade "big holiday game" level.

Basically Kirby > Xenoblade/Metroid/FE/etc doesn't mean Kirby = Mario/Pokemon/Zelda/Splatoon/AC/Smash

Even comparing a heavy hitter like DK to Kirby, Star Allies ended up matching about the same sales as the Tropical Freeze rerelease did. If anything, that would place them both at the same level, no?

That goes to the point of how re-releases don't sell as well as original titles. Look at the Prime 1 remake compared to Dread, even though the original Prime was more successful than all the 2D Metroids previously. Or how Pikmin 4 outsold 3 Deluxe by over a mil despite 3 arriving at the height of the pandemic and 4 not showing up until several years later.

So a port of Tropical Freeze doesn't really demonstrate the ceiling for DK. Just like how it wouldn't be fair to compare Bananza to the Forgotten Land port. But if you look at the SNES, 64 or Wii (or Wii U, if you want to count Rainbow Curse), the original DK game handily outsells the original Kirby game.

Or you could look at the TF port compared to the Return to Dream Land port... where the difference is in DK's favor by several mil.

I think this is just a case of agree to disagree at the end of the day, no? Kirby Air Riders isn't gonna end up being the Holiday game anyhow given how early into the year it was revealed. That sorta title is definitely being saved for now.

Might as well, probably only going to go in circles at this point. I guess we'll see what Nintendo's holiday plans end up being.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Cuz he’s ugly and lumpy and creepy and he’s weird and I don’t like him

You sound like me talking about DK's redesign.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Since the Wii U?
2013: E3 Presentation / Oct, Nov, and Dec Directs (they were smaller then)
2014: E3 Presentation / Late Aug & Nov Directs
2015: E3 Presentation / Nov Direct (no general Directs earlier likely due to company shakeup after Iwata's passing)
2016: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct (3DS only, Wii U had basically nothing) - last pre-Switch year
2017: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2018: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2019: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2020: covid
2021: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2022: June Direct Mini / Sep Direct
2023: June Direct / Sep Direct
2024: June Direct / late Aug partner Direct - last pre-Switch 2 year

No precedent? Fr?

In all fairness. I can see the summer Direct be delayed to July or August for specifically this year, given the Switch 2 releases in June.

That is, unless it is specifically either still incorporating a lot of Switch 1 stuff or is a Partner Showcase. I don't see Nintendo have enough ammo for a 40-minute presentation of just first-party Switch 2 stuff at that point.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Yeah, the Directs shifting ahead a month (July for the Summer Direct, October for the Fall Direct) feels like it could happen. Easy to do a last push for Bananza in the former and Prime 4 in the latter.

 

[Noipoi]

You sound like me talking about DK's redesign.

Indeed I do

The difference here is, Kiddy only got the one game. New DK is here to stay, at least for a while

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Indeed I do

The difference here is, Kiddy only got the one game. New DK is here to stay, at least for a while

Me, in my dream game development situation getting to make a DK game, politely asking Miyamoto is I may please use the old design.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Indeed I do

The difference here is, Kiddy only got the one game. New DK is here to stay, at least for a while

Why don't you take your usual talks with SnakeFighter back to the Social thread?!

If you are reading this, yes, I am just kidding, and messing with you two.

Spoiler

BUT seriously, you are always welcome here, but what brought Snake here? Not that she is not welcome but I don't often see her here.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Why don't you take your usual talks with SnakeFighter back to the Social thread?!

If you are reading this, yes, I am just kidding, and messing with you two.

Spoiler

BUT seriously, you are always welcome here, but what brought Snake here? Not that she is not welcome but I don't often see her here.

I posted an idea about how I would do Dixie in Smash and we wound up here.

 

[dream1ng]

Cool - glad we agree. I think Xenoblade is terrible and the exaggerated claims of the fanbase are even worse, and I'm going to voice that opinion at every opportunity.

You're clearly letting this bleed into your objectivity though, which is just going to deprive your take of credence and cause people to not treat it seriously.

Xenoblade doesn't do gangbusters, but you're pointing at the AAA exceptions in the genre, and not the ocean of other JRPGs that might not even break one mil but keep going because they're successful enough within their niche to financially justify their development. In comparison, Xenoblade is fairly successful, and it shows no indication of stopping, or being excluded from Smash.

The reply in and of itself proves my point - the fragility around the series is insane.

If the series was fragile two games that failed to cross 1 mil would've killed it. Look at what happened to Golden Sun, and it didn't have Xenoblade's budget. But it's continued at regular pace since the Wii, and has basically become even more present. I mean, there are four Xenoblade games on Switch.

If anything Xenoblade seems fairly durable, and will probably remain so until it takes a sales nosedive or Monolith creates a much more profitable IP.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I posted an idea about how I would do Dixie in Smash and we wound up here.

Oh, that works. Okay then.

 

[dream1ng]

In all fairness. I can see the summer Direct be delayed to July or August for specifically this year, given the Switch 2 releases in June.

That is, unless it is specifically either still incorporating a lot of Switch 1 stuff or is a Partner Showcase. I don't see Nintendo have enough ammo for a 40-minute presentation of just first-party Switch 2 stuff at that point.

I mean the point was just about a precedent of a summer and a fall Direct, it's not that it has to strictly be in June and September. Yesterday I mentioned how I think the summer one will be post-launch pre-Bananza, which makes July entirely plausible imo.

Though I don't think a Direct that mostly focuses on the Switch 2 takes away from the launch of the Switch 2.

But also, why would a Direct just have first-party stuff? The Switch 2 clearly has a lot of third-party support, including inevitably a bunch we haven't seen yet. I mean the showcase we just got was more third-party than first-party.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Though I don't think a Direct that mostly focuses on the Switch 2 takes away from the launch of the Switch 2.

It's not that it takes away, it's that I can't imagine them showing a ton of new stuff this early into the console's launch when they could just... have more of the stuff we've seen last week.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I don’t get the impression Noah and Mio are particularly liked so I’m unsure why I see them on most prediction rosters.

XBC3 was successful so I can see one of them getting in. What I don't understand is when fans predict both of them getting in as separate characters. Maybe one of them would be in the victory poses and Final Smash of the other.

 

[dream1ng]

It's not that it takes away, it's that I can't imagine them showing a ton of new stuff this early into the console's launch that they could just... have more of the stuff we've seen last week.

I mean last week will be 3ish months ago if a Direct airs in late June/early-mid July, which is a fairly standard gap between the Spring-Summer-Fall Directs.

Also this previous Direct where almost everything was a new reveal will not be the norm, going forward there will be a lot of games we've already seen interspersed with new reveals, especially on the first-party side. If you go back to the Switch's first year, by the summer they were ready to announce games not arriving that year, like Kirby, Yoshi and Metroid.

So yeah, it will be some new stuff, and some of the stuff they showed last week. The goal wasn't to just reveal the games and then not show more of them later. There's probably one or two surprises left for this year, titles from next year, and plenty left to see in Bananza, HW, Air Riders, MP4 and Z-A.

That and third-parties could easily fill a Direct.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think Xenoblade‘s representation in Smash is at a nexus point, where it’s completely fine to have the main protagonist of arguably the series and the breakout star (Honestly, Pyra and Mythra are popular almost despite being from Xenoblade). The current rep is justified. It’s when the series gets lumped in with Fire Emblem and Pokémon’s “Each new entry should (or worse, will) have the main character in Smash” where I personally appreciate the pushback. I don’t get the impression Noah and Mio are particularly liked so I’m unsure why I see them on most prediction rosters.

Well if we're going by my poll...

Both Noah and Mio were in the top 20.

 

[dream1ng]

Well if we're going by my poll...

Both Noah and Mio were in the top 20.

I'm not gonna try to gauge how innately popular those two are, but I will say the expectation of how the series functions will cause almost all demand to funnel to the expected character at the expense of characters who in theory may be of equal or greater popularity.

Like if you look at Pokemon... of over 1000 options, is Meowscarada (or any Gen 9) truly the most popular one? Nah. Were Decidueye or Incineroar or Mimikyu or Lycanroc really the Pokemon that would've been the top four if expectation didn't filter out most other options?

I mean currently I would expect Alear to beat Lyn in a Smash popularity poll.

Again I'm not saying Noah and Mio lack genuine popularity, but there's also a high degree of expectation helping them. Especially because outside of the promotional series, there aren't that many first-parties who seem like they have great chances.

 

[cashregister9]

I will say, I think Noah and Mio are quite possibly the least controversial protagonists in the series among fans and even outside of the Xenoblade fanbase, I have seen very little genuine dislike of Noah and Mio, I've seen plenty of Rex hate, and a bit of Elma hate, as well as various mixed opinions on Lora and Matthew, and people just find Cross boring.

What I don't understand is when fans predict both of them getting in as separate characters. Maybe one of them would be in the victory poses and Final Smash of the other.

They are dual protagonists, and both have their own unique set of abilities that would make them fun to play as separately, having them combined would be severely limiting their potential and only having one would feel incomplete.

I don't necessarily think that will happen, but it's what I want to happen though.

 

[dream1ng]

Personally I think if the promotional series didn't operate on that basis Noah and Mio would be heavily challenged in popularity by Elma, splitting the vote and detracting from the placement of any Xenoblade character.

 

[Gengar84]

I love the Xenoblade games but I don’t absolutely need a new character every Smash game. I do think both Noah and Mio were good protagonists and they have my favorite designs of any of the mainline main protagonists but there are other characters from different games I’d be more excited for. They’re both a bit below Nia and Elma as far as who I’d personally want to see but I’d be happy with any of them. Personally, what draws me to the Xenoblade series is less the story and characters and more the world exploration and music. I still do like quite a few XB characters but the parties never quite lived up to how much I liked Tales characters for example. I’m weird though and I tend to gravitate towards characters a lot less people care about. My favorite XB3 character, for example, is Ashera. I don’t think many other people can claim that lol.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I wouldn't say a Xenoblade newcomer is guaranteed or anything, I just really like Noah and Mio and want one of them in lol

I think Noah would be more likely since he has the plot sword, but I'd like Mio more for her unique class/weapon type, but either way I'm pretty sure both would be there in some small part because I'm 100% that Final Smash would include Ouroboros in some way which requires both of them, even if it just spawns the other in like Rex for Pyra and Mythra.

Plus if I recall correctly Sakurai is a fan of the series (at least with Xenoblade 2, he openly praised it and called it a considerable accomplishment), so again, not guaranteed but feels decently likely and I just really like the characters in question, plus it's a series that saw an absolute ton of growth on the Switch alongside Pikmin and Kirby which I feel like should receive newcomers as well in Oatchi and Bandana Dee, so obviously I'm gonna advocate for it lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean currently I would expect Alear to beat Lyn in a Smash popularity poll.

Ah...

But they didn't beat Lyn.

Heck she didn't get close to beating Lyn.

 

[Gengar84]

I wouldn't say a Xenoblade newcomer is guaranteed or anything, I just really like Noah and Mio and want one of them in lol

I think Noah would be more likely since he has the plot sword, but I'd like Mio more for her unique class/weapon type, but either way I'm pretty sure both would be there in some small part because I'm 100% that Final Smash would include Ouroboros in some way which requires both of them, even if it just spawns the other in like Rex for Pyra and Mythra.

Plus if I recall correctly Sakurai is a fan of the series (at least with Xenoblade 2, he openly praised it and called it a considerable accomplishment), so again, not guaranteed but feels decently likely and I just really like the characters in question, plus it's a series that saw an absolute ton of growth on the Switch alongside Pikmin and Kirby which I feel like should receive newcomers as well in Oatchi and Bandana Dee, so obviously I'm gonna advocate for it lol

It’s funny that overall Xenoblade 2 is my least favorite in the series but Nia is my favorite character in the whole series. I didn’t much care for a lot of the fanservicey designs of the blades, Torra and Poppy’s attempts at humor, and that the characters felt more like tropes than fully fleshed out personalities overall but there was something different about Nia. I just thought she felt like a fully believable person and I loved her sarcastic witty humor. Her actual visual design isn’t my favorite though it works but I really enjoyed her personality and voice.

 

[SharkLord]

Idea: what if they did Dixie with a lot of her bones coming from Diddy Kong, but she also has Kiddy Kong follow her around like a Luma so she can do DKC3’s team up moves with him and give her more versatility since she doesn’t have the DK64 weaponry DK and Diddy do. And then the final Smash can be a reference to DKC3’s ending with the Mother Banana Bird.

That's quite a big Luma

Honestly that would be a funny concept, little Dixie Kong puppeting a giant Kiddy Kong to serve as a big obstacle for anyone trying to get to her, versus Rosalina steering a tiny little Luma. Dunno how well that picth would work, but it's funny to think about.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve learned to keep my Dixie Kong opinions to myself around here so I’ll just leave it at ”I think she’d be neat.”

 

[SharkLord]

Anyways regarding Xenoblade and "new guy priority" and Noah and Mio, my brother binged the series goes on lengthy explanations about it, and when he gets to XBC3 he keeps devolving into "TACHYON SLASH! TACHYON SLASH! TACHYON SLASH! TACHYON SLASH!" so I can only assume Noah has the secret sauce, at least in terms of moveset. I haven't played anything Xeno since XBC1 DE back when it first dropped so that's about as much as I can say, but I trust my brother on this matter

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Since the Wii U?
2013: E3 Presentation / Oct, Nov, and Dec Directs (they were smaller then)
2014: E3 Presentation / Late Aug & Nov Directs
2015: E3 Presentation / Nov Direct (no general Directs earlier likely due to company shakeup after Iwata's passing)
2016: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct (3DS only, Wii U had basically nothing) - last pre-Switch year
2017: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2018: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2019: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2020: covid
2021: E3 Presentation / Sep Direct
2022: June Direct Mini / Sep Direct
2023: June Direct / Sep Direct
2024: June Direct / late Aug partner Direct - last pre-Switch 2 year

No precedent? Fr?

Our entire current conversation is revolving around Nintendo using Directs to promote their games within its first year, putting literally every other year in front of me isn't really a gotcha precedence in my eyes, especially considering games currently cost 80$ and Nintendo isn't on the verge of failure like in Switch 1 to Wii U, and Wii U's first year was the second year they were even testing the format back before the internet was terrified of Shrek.

Gonna be real, I really dislike getting replies that are "here's statistic, really?" Like thanks man, I was there for most of this, you didn't need to word it like that.
I wasn't referring to double directs accounting for direct minis and August Partner showcases, and I'm gonna be real, precedence is broken literally all the time, to the point this literal console launch threw away tradition of having a 3D Mario announced right away, Smash Bros appearing in some form, pricing arrangements, etc.

I'm sorry buy ramping up during the summer and then ramping down during the holidays only to pick things back up again next year is... kinda backwards. You're suggesting they advertise less during the busiest, most active consumer part of the year. For the first holiday their top priority is on the market?

It's not about "not having anything to reveal", it's about hammering home the things they will be selling. You need to keep selling them during the holidays; people spend more and competition is higher. Also, they will have stuff to reveal, even if it's mostly 2026 stuff at that point.

This is all perfectly fine logic that I understand, but again, I really don't see it as the 'this is happening' that you do and frankly, I feel as like these statements are worded in ways increasingly demeaning to own opinion. I don't have backwards thinking just cause I think there might be one less general direct than you, and honestly I'm pretty sure our predictions going forward are still mostly in line with each other. If Nintendo released a series of tweets to promote some smaller titles, or releases an individual trailer showcase for Prime 4 before release with no fanfare, and then did something like announce a direct mini, then the scenario in my head is being fulfilled. That's what I'm talking about, not this barren idea of just not promoting games during the latter half of the year like you seem to think.

I mean "Nintendo is unpredictable" only goes so far when they actually are predictable in this regard. And the reason they predictable do a fall Direct is because of its utility for the holiday season.

Like, I can't say a fall general Direct not happening is impossible, they could divide it into game specific and partner showcases, but... I would be very very very surprised if they opt against having the Direct that gets the most eyes on the first holiday of their new system.

This statement to me reads as "I can't say for certain I'm right, but I'm right" and honestly, I don't know how you want someone to respond to that beyond just disagreeing or going with it. Like again, your logic is solid and compelling, but there's no room for my opinion to be recognized in the way it's presented. It's just "I agree with you" or "okay I'm wrong."

Ok, and the Xenoblade team has over 140 people, but that doesn't make the IP something Nintendo would poise as its big holiday title, because it just has a lower ceiling than its bigger IPs.

I mean alright. If the game itself being described as big and being one of the only first party announcements during the Switch 2 Direct isn't enough, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Frankly though, I feel like there's plenty logic to my argument that Air Riders is being developed and spoken of as if it was a large scale title.

Well I don't dispute there's a range, but showing how low the bar is doesn't in turn raise the bar. The bar is just set by the reception of the game. It's hard to compare Air Ride commercially since there's only been one title on a system that didn't have any mainline Kirby games, but even the mainline Kirby games, while successful, are not tentpole holiday game successful when they've got Mario and Pokemon in their pocket.

Idk what to say to this. Air Riders raises the bar because it isn't a pinball game for the game boy color, or a King Dedede Eshop exclusive on 3DS. If you aren't convinced it'll clear that level, I just think you're wrong, and that's that.

But showing how Kirby sells better than Xenoblade or the others isn't the argument (and I didn't claim otherwise), because that doesn't mean it sells as well as Nintendo's A-tier. Xenoblade or Metroid are likewise games that aren't, under normal circumstances, the big holiday game level. It doesn't make them minor, small series, it's not that black and white, it just means there are much bigger options.

You keep raising points about how other games are less successful, like these other IPs or other Kirby spin-offs, but the point is that Air Ride isn't as successful as the tentpole holiday games. I could point to games less successful than Xenoblade, it doesn't make Xenoblade "big holiday game" level.

I feel like in the exact way your saying that there's bigger options to choose, you just kinda neglect there are smaller ones too. Especially given you later categorize Kirby as between all the bigger and smaller Ips, which I feel if anything outwardly acknowledges that there's more logic to Kirby being a Holiday title than Metroid, a thing which has definitively happened.The gap between these titles is genuinely so arbitrary when placed under this level of scrutiny that I'm not gonna bother getting upset about it. We just disagree on semantics here.

There is a line I wanna call out in specific though.

Xenoblade or Metroid are likewise games that aren't, under normal circumstances, the big holiday game level.

Are our circumstances normal right now? The current market collapse is being compared to Covid striking twice where I am. I don't really feel like Nintendo Protocol is operating under the same mindset as 2013.

Basically Kirby > Xenoblade/Metroid/FE/etc doesn't mean Kirby = Mario/Pokemon/Zelda/Splatoon/AC/Smash

I agree with this.

That goes to the point of how re-releases don't sell as well as original titles. Look at the Prime 1 remake compared to Dread, even though the original Prime was more successful than all the 2D Metroids previously. Or how Pikmin 4 outsold 3 Deluxe by over a mil despite 3 arriving at the height of the pandemic and 4 not showing up until several years later.

So a port of Tropical Freeze doesn't really demonstrate the ceiling for DK. Just like how it wouldn't be fair to compare Bananza to the Forgotten Land port. But if you look at the SNES, 64 or Wii (or Wii U, if you want to count Rainbow Curse), the original DK game handily outsells the original Kirby game.

Or you could look at the TF port compared to the Return to Dream Land port... where the difference is in DK's favor by several mil.

I honestly think this point is just kinda disingenuous. On the rerelease not selling as well point, Mario Kart. If you're gonna argue nobody bought a Wii U, fair, but Tropical Freeze suffers under that same logic. On the point of comparing Tropical Freeze to Return to Dreamland, you literally make the point in these paragraphs that comparing games released years apart and selling more is impressive in regards to Pikmin 4 compared to 3, so I hope you can see why you not acknowledging the fact Return to Dreamland rereleased 5 years after Tropical Freeze did annoys me. I instead compared Tropical Freeze to Star Allies because they've had almost the exact same shelf life on Switch since they both released early 2018. Also worth noting is Forgotten Land sold damn near double what Star Allies did, so in the same way you're arguing DK wasn't selling at his fullest, I can give you pretty concrete evidence Kirby wasn't either.

Look, I feel like I've been a bit nasty in this post, and I genuinely apologize for adding to that kind of vibe here. It's just honestly, I can't tell at what point I stopped having fun talking about Nintendo games during this discussion and when it turned into a jab battle about defending arguments. You don't need to think what I'm saying is smart, but it's genuinely so demoralizing to spend time trying to to articulate my thoughts, only to be hit with a string of dates and "really bro?"

To be as blunt and unmushy as possible, I respect and value what you have to say, but it doesn't feel like that respect is a two way street. Now that I'm done writing my master's thesis on being butthurt online, I think I'm gonna go unplug for a couple hours. Stay safe y'all.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Is there any possible way to represent Picross with a playable character?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Is there any possible way to represent Picross with a playable character?

Mario has been in the game since the first Smash

 

[cashregister9]

Is there any possible way to represent Picross with a playable character?

Once again, the Vtubers win

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

View attachment 401276
So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)

Hmmm... I do see some major issues.

• Not much reason to cut K. Rool or Falco
• I'm not sure who the guy after Shulk is. If they're from Xenoblade I think it's going to be hard to be more appealing than Pyra/Mythra or one of the other protagonists
• I think you went a bit too scorched Earth with the third parties. At the very least, Capcom will stay around.
• If they got Hero to work, I don't think they'd ever choose Slime OVER Hero.
• I don't see any newcomer echoes. But I'm not sure if that was a factor in this.

But other than that... It's not terrible. There's choices I disagree with and think unlikely like no ARMS or Wii Fit, and the inclusion of Rayman. There's some big disappointments but there's some cool things here too. You cut down Pokemon and Fire Emblem to reasonable levels with removing a sense of respect. Skull Kid is sick. Octavio is rad. Ayumi and LABO are inspired choices. Chorus Kids are awesome. I like how you're trying to add more Nintendo franchises. I also like how you largely avoid "mascotification."

Personal Want: 6/10
Realism: 4/10

I could live with this. Have some more confidence.

 

[SharkLord]

View attachment 401276
So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)

While it's valid to aim for a realistic roster, I think it's also valid to slip in some personal appeal picks to spice things up, as long as they don't contrast too hard with the goal of realism. For the roster in particular:

• The Mario (And Wario), Zelda, and Pokemon lineup is pretty reasonable. DJ Octavio has kinda fallen out of speculation in favor of the idols, but his recurring boss status is enough of an argument, so I think he's pretty reasonable too.
• It seems kinda harsh to drop K. Rool. He might not be as active nowadays, but he was a massively popular request for a good long while and it'd be sad to see him disappear so quickly
• The new first-party series are pretty reasonable - The Toy-Con Robot is a rare but inspired pick; Even if the Labo was just a blip in the grand scheme of things, I can't deny the appeal of having a Big Robot on the roster
• It feels like a bit of a missed opportunity to leave out some popular Switch-era characters, like Raven Beak and Oatchi. On that note, I feel it's kinda odd to leave out Tom Nook in spite of his significance in Animal Crossing. I don't want to railroad every roster into adding the same guys, but I think they're at least worth considering
• Fire Emblem covers most of the necessary elements, though I can't help but feel it's missing something. Robin's spells would help shake things up, and Lyn is also worth considering for her "first Lord in the West" status, enough that she's still on the Nintendo Today icon for FE
• I have no idea who the guy next to Shulk is. Is he an XC3 villain? I'm not sure Pyra and Mythra would be cut for him.
• Regular Waddle Dee over Bandana Dee feels strange. BWD was made as a representative for the Waddle Dee species, and he's established himself as a major protagonist in his own right, so I don't see a reason to leave him out
• The third-party cuts are pretty harsh - I'm sure they'd at least keep Mega Man around, and there's a good chance they'd at least consider for Ryu, Terry, the Belmonts, Snake, Banjo, Steve... More than just Sonic and Pac-Man for the veterans, at least.
• I'm gonna be nice to Rayman on the basis that Mario + Rabbids gives Ubisoft a pretty solid link to Nintendo, but I doubt they'd prioritize him before most of the third-party veterans
• Similarly, I don't think they'd swap out Hero for Slime. Slime's pretty iconic, but I think they'd at least keep Hero with him.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

• I think you went a bit too scorched Earth with the third parties. At the very least, Capcom will stay around.
• If they got Hero to work, I don't think they'd ever choose Slime OVER Hero.

Thank you, I should elaborate on what I was doing with third parties, Basically I was trying to do what Smash 4 did and do only mascots, That’s also why Slime is there. I had Bomberman instead until very last minute where I changed to Slime, There was probably some personal bias there because I’m a big Dragon Quest fan.

Edit: Also this is more so what I would do if I was in charge rather than what I think Sakurai would do, That list would be totally different.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Yes, I know - unfortunately, I've played it. I meant to say JRPGs - it's immaterial to the point.





Cool - glad we agree. I think Xenoblade is terrible and the exaggerated claims of the fanbase are even worse, and I'm going to voice that opinion at every opportunity.


There are things that deserve this treatment far more than Xenoblade.


The reply in and of itself proves my point - the fragility around the series is insane.

Didn’t you hate Xenoblade before ever giving it a chance?

I saw you talk about how (despite not playing it) you didn’t even view Xenoblade as a worthy Nintendo game, because it wasn’t playful and whimsical enough, and that Dragon Quest was more of a Nintendo game to you than Xenoblade (despite still saying it’s “a little bit anime for you” and calling it “fantasy slop”), you also pointed to Xenoblade not having a mascot character as a fault.

Here are some clips for context.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

It seems like you have a distaste for fantasy RPGs with “anime” aesthetics and a more serious tone (or melodramatic as you seem to think it is), and that combined with Xenoblade not fitting your view of what a Nintendo game should be is preventing you from looking at Xenoblade critically and unbiased.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)

Character rosters kinda just blend together for me, so I never quite realize who's missing. As far as the new additions, I think Toy-Con Robot is a fun cho-

Z is here instead of Noah and/or Mio

Wat?

It also loses points for me for having a regular Waddle Dee over Bandana Waddle Dee since that just feels like Dudunsparce levels of "screw you", but Z as the Xenoblade Chronicles 3 rep is just super weird.

 

[NintenRob]

View attachment 401276
So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)

On one hand, you added Skull Kid. on the other hand, you cut Rosalina.

I feel conflicted. But also they're never adding Moebius Z

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Didn’t you hate Xenoblade before ever giving it a chance?

I saw you talk about how (despite not playing it) you didn’t even view Xenoblade as a worthy Nintendo game, because it wasn’t playful and whimsical enough, and that Dragon Quest was more of a Nintendo game to you than Xenoblade (despite still saying it’s “a little bit anime for you” and calling it “fantasy slop”), you also pointed to Xenoblade not having a mascot character as a fault.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

It seems like you have a distaste for fantasy RPGs with “anime” aesthetics and a more serious tone, and that combined with Xenoblade not fitting your view of what a Nintendo game should be is preventing you from looking at Xenoblade critically and unbiased.

Same guy also said Kid Icarus Uprising was too “Anime” and that the series should be represented exclusively by the NES game instead despite Uprising being the most popular game, The one that it’s generally known for nowadays, And also the very obvious connection it has to Smash.

 

[cashregister9]

View attachment 401276
So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)

-No real complaints with the first 4 rows, I personally would ditch skull kid and bring back K. Rool, Palutena or Rosalina, but that is literally just me.
-I think Falco or Wolf should still be here
-I would rather have no Xenoblade 3 rep, than to remove Pyra and Mythra in favor of Z. Z was kind of a boring villain and Pyra and Mythra are now practically synonymous with Xenoblade as a franchise.
-I do like the rest of the first party picks though.
-Yeah I echo the statements about the third parties, especially the no Capcom, I think Ryu and Mega Man should both still be here

Other than that, I always appreciate any roster that keeps Lucina in any capacity, so I can't really complain.