Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Thegameandwatch]

I like this guy’s videos, editing, formatting, moveset ideas, and insights and speculation on the overall surrounding game, but that is the most “room temperature tap water with unsalted crackers” list of newcomers he gives, even amongst first parties, I’m afraid. I note that often with him. At least in my opinion, anyways. I feel like 10 years or so ago, he would have said Zoroark was a sure thing. I feel mean saying this, though.

Meowscarada feels like would be the character that was listed in many fan rosters but never joins because of time or someone else being picked like what happened with Decidueye. Also feels like a trend character because of its grass typing like how people wanted Decidueye because of Greninja and Charizard being water and fire types respectively. It was very popular but the grass typing was probably a major reason. Also like how people wanted Zoroark because it had a movie like Lucario.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Meowscarada feels like would be the character that was listed in many fan rosters but never joins because of time or someone else being picked like what happened with Decidueye. Also feels like a trend character because of its grass typing like how people wanted Decidueye because of Greninja and Charizard being water and fire types respectively. It was very popular but the grass typing was probably a major reason. Also like how people wanted Zoroark because it had a movie like Lucario.

If there's anything I learned it's that whatever Pokémon is seen as likely by the community is the one that's not getting in.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

If there's anything I learned it's that whatever Pokémon is seen as likely by the community is the one that's not getting in.

The closest thing to an exception is Mewtwo in Smash 4's DLC.

Who was the most requested Pokemon for Brawl before it released?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The closest thing to an exception is Mewtwo in Smash 4's DLC.

Who was the most requested Pokemon for Brawl before it released?

I think it was Lucario, just based on a thread I found on here from 2007 with a poll on it, but the Lucario movie had also come out in 2005/2006 and Brawl was announced in 2005, so the timing lined up a lot more.

Aside from Lucario, the other popular options on the poll in the thread were Blaziken and Meowth, and the rest were pretty close together, but Deoxys and Gengar I believe kinda led that pack.

After that though, general consensus has kinda been getting destroyed. Zoroark/Victini, Decidueye, likely Meowscarada because Gen 10 is probably coming out next year...

 

[RileyXY1]

And it's possible that Gen 10 might even get skipped over as well.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah…I think most of us can agree that Dixie as an Echo (or semi-clone) of Diddy is just as bad an idea as Funky as an Echo (or semi-clone) of DK.

Yes. In that I think both would be completely fine.

Do you have an attachment to the character?
If No: "They would be kinda neat but are fairly unlikely as picks, so make them an Echo Fighter."
If Yes: "They cannot be an Echo Fighter. They need to be unique."

The Echo Fighter label has convinced us that clones are fun extras, but nobody wants their character to be the fun extra.

Mostly accurate. But I definitely have exceptions.

Black Shadow, Impa, Liquid Snake, Shadow and Bass are all characters I care about that I would be totally fine being Echoes.

And before you say that they look too similar, you could probably say the same about Liquid

At least you can easily tell Solid and Liquid apart. Solid and Big Boss look identical.

Also, I personally prefer the idea of Liquid as a boss using Metal Gear REX.

Same.

I've always thought making Shadow an echo would be such a disservice to him. Like pretty much all of Shadow's most famous combat stuff is stuff Sonic doesn't do (Or rarely uses).

He still played identical to Sonic in his first appearance. That makes making him an Echo a valid choice. Just like it was for Ken.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The closest thing to an exception is Mewtwo in Smash 4's DLC.

Who was the most requested Pokemon for Brawl before it released?

I wasn't around for Brawl speculation, so I don't know who was the MOST discussed personally.

According to an old post by ChronoBound, Lucario was at least the most discussed of the 4th Gen Pokémon, but Deoxys was also a heavily discussed Pokémon (at least here) until being revealed as a Poké Ball summon.

After that though, general consensus has kinda been getting destroyed. Zoroark/Victini, Decidueye, likely Meowscarada because Gen 10 is probably coming out next year...

Don't forget Sceptile, the progenitor of the fully evolved Grass starter trend.

And Cinderace for the DLC era of Ultimate.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Don't forget Sceptile.

This community is obsessed with grass types at this point.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

And it's possible that Gen 10 might even get skipped over as well.

Look, I get that you think Smash is gonna skip the Switch 2 and come out on the Switch 3 in 2034 or something just because Air Riders comes out this year, and you're really gunning for that Gen 12 Pokemon character, but Pokemon adding Gen 10 to Smash will already have skipped Gen 8 and Gen 9, which is already the biggest gap Smash has had for playable Pokemon.

I really don't see why they wouldn't start working on Smash right after Air Riders is done (just like they did for Smash 4 after Kid Icarus Uprising), meaning Sakurai would ask Pokemon Company for what they're doing or what they want and get concepts from Gen 10, likely coming next year as part of Pokemon's 30th anniversary.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Pokemon adding Gen 10 to Smash will already have skipped Gen 8 and Gen 9, which is already the biggest gap Smash has had for playable Pokemon.

Also the fact that only two generations (3 and 5) don't have reps outside of ones after Ultimate released.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Look, I get that you think Smash is gonna skip the Switch 2 and come out on the Switch 3 in 2034 or something just because Air Riders comes out this year, and you're really gunning for that Gen 12 Pokemon character, but Pokemon adding Gen 10 to Smash will already have skipped Gen 8 and Gen 9, which is already the biggest gap Smash has had for playable Pokemon.

I really don't see why they wouldn't start working on Smash right after Air Riders is done (just like they did for Smash 4 after Kid Icarus Uprising), meaning Sakurai would ask Pokemon Company for what they're doing or what they want and get concepts from Gen 10, likely coming next year as part of Pokemon's 30th anniversary.

Why bother even trying to reason?
Just take whatever he says to mean the exact opposite is going to for sure happen and save yourself the headache.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Honestly as "meh" an idea as this might be to some, I'd be fine with a DK variation of Peach's vegetable pull. Utilizing the handle on the ground as seen in DK Tropical Freeze, Dixie pulls on it to pop a type of barrel out of the ground (so it's not coming out of her person/hammerspace). Percentage wise a standard barrel is most common and does okay damage. Steel barrel is rarer on top of being slower to throw but does greater damage and can roll on the ground (whether she/others can ride on it can be decided later). TNT barrel is even rarer still but does the most damage with an additional cost of blowing up Dixie if she holds it for too long. If there's other variations of barrels that fit, maybe they can be included too.

You get a concept no more out there than Peach pulling turnips, with some potential depth to it, and utilizing an item the Kong's actually use as a weapon. You can adjust it to further differentiate it from Peach's move, better fit with an overall Diddy echo playstyle, and make it balanced in terms of use, but it at least feels much more like a Dixie attack than throwing banana peels on the ground.

I could see this working. It's a good reference too. Though there might be complaints about Dixie using barrels and not Donkey.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Delzethin released a speculative video on a potential Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate.

I would generally be satisfied this approach providing we get some modes worth a damn. I do disagree with that selection of first-party newcomers though mainly because I don't think characters that are Assist Trophies would be off the table at this point. Waluigi in particular has just kinda become too big to pass on again over something arbitrary and fixable and I don't view Spirit matches where he appears as a big factor since this is a game where you can have Robin summon Chrom to do a team attack on Chrom

 

[RodNutTakin]

I would generally be satisfied this approach providing we get some modes worth a damn. I do disagree with that selection of first-party newcomers though mainly because I don't think characters that are Assist Trophies would be off the table at this point. Waluigi in particular has just kinda become too big to pass on again over something arbitrary and fixable and I don't view Spirit matches where he appears as a big factor since this is a game where you can have Robin summon Chrom to do a team attack on Chrom

Weren't some Spirit Battles modified by FP DLC anyway? I don't see the issue in, say, changing the Waluigi Spirit Battle so that a Piranha Plant fighter replaces the depreceated Waluigi AT in the battle, for example.

 

[NintenRob]

Honestly, A Switch 2 edition with Smash Run returning would be absolutely phenomenal. This is still the roster where everyone is here, it'd be amazing to have everyone beating up enemies and exploring the new map.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Weren't some Spirit Battles modified by FP DLC anyway? I don't see the issue in, say, changing the Waluigi Spirit Battle so that a Piranha Plant fighter replaces the depreceated Waluigi AT in the battle, for example.

There's a Smash Wiki article listing them all, and it includes all the base game XC2 spirits:

Downloadable content (SSBU)/List of Spirits with DLC changes

During the development of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, several spirits received changes due to updates, Challenger Packs, or purchasable Mii Costumes.

www.ssbwiki.com

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

He still played identical to Sonic in his first appearance. That makes making him an Echo a valid choice. Just like it was for Ken.

And as we all know, Mario should be based exclusively on the original Donkey Kong.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I've always thought making Shadow an echo would be such a disservice to him. Like pretty much all of Shadow's most famous combat stuff is stuff Sonic doesn't do (Or rarely uses). Guns, Chaos Control, Chaos Spear, Chaos Blast, The motorcycle, Not to mention all the new stuff from Shadow Generations.

If the guns and motorcycle were a part of his smash moveset I would hate it. Same with most of the new doom powers which are either upgrades of powers he already had (multi-targeting chaos spear) or really really stupid (the wings, the surfboard, and the inkling squid form).

Tbh the most different stuff I would do for shadow is just give him some different specials. Like I don’t even know what chaos blast even does considering I haven’t played Shadow the Hedgehog. But replacing the spindashes with chaos spear and chaos control would still leave him as mostly an echo fighter. Like most of his moveset would still be the same as Sonic’s with some unique flourishes and the spear and chaos control wouldn’t exactly be the most costly new animations to make. He’d be like a Ken style echo with a Chrom style move change.

Are we getting into the weeds of classification at this point when we start trying to differentiate between clones and semi-clones using fan made terms? Yes. And honestly I don’t care. The term “echo fighter” means “a fighter who uses another fighter as a base, has some differences but is largely the same and doesn’t require as much work for the devs as a 100% new fighter. That’s it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Who was the most requested Pokemon for Brawl before it released?

Plusle and Minun, Deoxsys, Blaziken and Lucario were all frequent contenders.

As for the most popular, it was originally Deoxsys but Lucario overshadowed Deoxsys once we learned more about Lucario. So many people see Lucario as a "shill pick" that people forget that it was an Uber popular request.

I mean those same people also forget that Lucario is one of the most popular Pokemon period, but I digress.

 

[Will]

I forgot that Deoxys was a Pokemon. I forgot that it was even a contender for most popular before all the other generations washed him to irrelevancy.

I wish it’s Pokeball was buffed a bit. It’s very powerful, but his beam is too narrow to effectively control the stage imo.

 

[RileyXY1]

Look, I get that you think Smash is gonna skip the Switch 2 and come out on the Switch 3 in 2034 or something just because Air Riders comes out this year, and you're really gunning for that Gen 12 Pokemon character, but Pokemon adding Gen 10 to Smash will already have skipped Gen 8 and Gen 9, which is already the biggest gap Smash has had for playable Pokemon.

I really don't see why they wouldn't start working on Smash right after Air Riders is done (just like they did for Smash 4 after Kid Icarus Uprising), meaning Sakurai would ask Pokemon Company for what they're doing or what they want and get concepts from Gen 10, likely coming next year as part of Pokemon's 30th anniversary.

With the current timeframe unless they're either going the Ultimate rerelease route or the replace Sakurai as director route I think Smash will end up not coming out until 2029 or 2030, at which point Gen 10 would be old news and Gen 11 would be what they would want to promote.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Say guys, do you think that in the June Nintendo Direct, we may get more news on Donkey Kong Banaza and maybe something Smash related, like a hint at a new Smash game or maybe an Ultimate Switch 2 Edition?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Plusle and Minun, Deoxsys, Blaziken and Lucario were all frequent contenders.

As for the most popular, it was originally Deoxsys but Lucario overshadowed Deoxsys once we learned more about Lucario. So many people see Lucario as a "shill pick" that people forget that it was an Uber popular request.

I mean those same people also forget that Lucario is one of the most popular Pokemon period, but I digress.

I think he's an instance of "they were a great choice in the hindsight they didn't have" like with Greninja.

Not that that really matters in the end.

 

[Will]

Say guys, do you think that in the June Nintendo Direct, we may get more news on Donkey Kong Banaza and maybe something Smash related, like a hint at a new Smash game or maybe an Ultimate Switch 2 Edition?

I’m not expecting a Smash teaser until next year.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I’m not expecting a Smash teaser until next year.

What about an announcement that Smash is happening on the Switch 2, which I meant and should have said instead of the teaser thing?

It doesn’t have to be in the June Direct, by the way.

 

[Sucumbio]

What about an announcement that Smash is happening on the Switch 2, which I meant and should have said instead of the teaser thing?

It doesn’t have to be in the June Direct, by the way.

I think the next thing we see Smash related is gonna be well after the system launch date, maybe early next year but probably more likely middle of next year to ramp for a release end of the following year. It'll start with that signature Sword Swipe sound bit and the world will esplode in Hype mania.

 

[Will]

What about an announcement that Smash is happening on the Switch 2, which I meant and should have said instead of the teaser thing?

It doesn’t have to be in the June Direct, by the way.

Sure? Maybe at the Game Awards?

 

[Stratos]

Say guys, do you think that in the June Nintendo Direct, we may get more news on Donkey Kong Banaza and maybe something Smash related, like a hint at a new Smash game or maybe an Ultimate Switch 2 Edition?

I want to hope and wish it happens, but I can't be sure.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I want to hope and wish it happens, but I can't be sure.

Correction, no one can be sure.

I mean, I can wait next year for the teaser, but yeah, a Smash announcement this year would be nice.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Have you guys heard of SSQM?

 

[HyperSomari64]

I forgot that Deoxys was a Pokemon. I forgot that it was even a contender for most popular before all the other generations washed him to irrelevancy.

I wish it’s Pokeball was buffed a bit. It’s very powerful, but his beam is too narrow to effectively control the stage imo.

Double post

Have you guys heard of SSQM?

No?

 

[Cyberfire]

I gotta feeling and I need to put this in writing for a future told you so: Dampe and Pauline.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

can't wait for fighter pass 3 dropping in 2027. foreman spike's day to shine

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Since we actually know the name of the next Nintendo console I went ahead and updated the thread name.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

No?

I found this video about SSQM

 

[Guynamednelson]

I found this video about SSQM

"new Smash Ultimate"
SSQM was first made years ago, why are people only now trying it out?

 

[Will]

Double post

The website crashed out. Just report it and it’ll be dealt with in due time

Since we actually know the name of the next Nintendo console I went ahead and updated the thread name.

But you still lock us away from our god-given right to create modern character support threads?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[ninjahmos]

I also kinda wanna hear jazz-rock/jazz-rock fusion in the next Smash game.

Although, there is that remix of Stormy Saxophone 2. It's…OK. It's not one of my favorites, but it's not one of my least favorites either.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Delzethin released a speculative video on a potential Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate.

It’s not often I agree with Delzethin (especially his… “interesting” character choices) But I’d say he’s onto something with the Switch 2 Edition idea. We still don’t know what that 2D action game being developed by Bamco Studio 2/S is, and I don’t think it’s implausible for something Smash related to be in development alongside Kirby Air Riders. In fact, on Sakurai’s Youtube video on the development of Kirby Air Ride, he mentioned that the reason he chose to make a racing game was because he wanted to develop a game more quickly than a standard action game.

Because of the relatively shorter development time of the genre, and the fact that we know this is the secret project he’s been working on since 2022, who’s to say that he also couldn’t be working on something else in the meantime?
Also Delzethin mirrored my idea of Smash trying to eventually achieve 100 characters in a single roster, which I found kinda funny.

I've been thinking, if the next Smash game is in fact Ultimate Deluxe ™, it'd be cool if they added exactly 11 newcomers to the base roster, making it 100. (There are 89 fighters in Ultimate if you count and separately.) It seems reasonably possible and it'd make for a good marketing gimmick. "Duke it out with all 100 fighters!" or something like that. That being said I've been doing this mental excercise where I try to think of the most likely roster of newcomers for these hypothetical 11 slots. Maybe this could be a prompt for you guys to brainstorm too, idk. Here's what I came up with:

Spoiler: 11 Newcomers

Waluigi:
The "Ridley" of the next Smash Bros. People have begged and Sakurai is usually pretty good with adding highly requested characters into the following entry, and boy have people been vocal about wanting Waluigi.

Marx:
People have been clamoring for a new Kirby character and Sakurai might heed their cries, but I could see him going an unexpected route. He loves putting content from the Kirby games he directed into Smash, and Marx is arguably the next most remarkable character from those games. There's evidence he has a soft spot for him considering Marx is both a boss and a Mii Fighter hat in Ultimate...

Noah:
Xenoblade is one of Nintendo's highest growing franchises, so adding the protagonist from the latest entry is practically a shoe-in. Not to mention the post launch Xenoblade 3 spirit shows credence to the idea of him in Smash.

Mallow and Geno:
One of those 2-in-1 characters like Pyra/Mythra and Zelda/Sheik in Brawl and Melee. I do think it's high time we get more substantial SMRPG content in Smash in light of the remake, but it would feel kinda weird to have Geno playable without Mallow. Think about it, every single party member would be playable except Mallow! Both are equally important parts of that game and picking one ove the other just wouldn't sit right with me.

A New Pokemon:
Kinda obvious right? I don't think it will be from gen 9 though. I'm pretty sure Sakurai was given early design documents for both Greninja and Incineroar, so it could be the same with this mysterious gen 10 Pokemon. (Let's be honest, it's probably a starter.)

Ring Fit Trainee:
Ring Fit Adventure is Nintendo's most successful new IP of the Switch generation, with at least 15 million sales. Nintendo clearly sees it as a valuable IP, going as far to add Ring Fit as one of the five games represented in Nintendo Alarmo at it's launch, along with heavy hitters like Mario Oddysey, Breath of the Wild and Splatoon 3. They'd fit right at home with other oddball picks like Ice Climbers, Villager, and (obviously) Wii Fit Trainer.

Ayumi Tachibana:
Speaking of oddball picks... Famicom Detective Club saw a surprising revitalization in the past few years, with the remakes of the original two games that actually got localized in the West and the completely new third entry that Nintendo was keen on advertising. Ayumi's the face of that franchise, being it's only representative with the trophy in Melee and spirit in Ultimate. As for how she'd fight.. This is Sakurai we're dealing with here so there's no doubt he'd come up with a moveset that incorporates elements from her series. (Maybe she'll find clues/evidence like Pheonix Wright in UMVC3?)

Bomberman:
Yup. It's him. Bomberman is one of the few third party franchises to be represented as an assist trophy with no playable representative, the others being Monster Hunter, Shovel Knight, and Virtua Fighter. I feel like he's the biggest Japanese gaming mascot to not be playable in Smash yet, being the face of the (now defunct) Hudson Soft. A historically important and legendary franchise in the same vein as Mega Man and Castlevania, he seems like prime base roster material to me.

Kunio:
The hot-headed highschooler from the River City series, known in Japan as Nekketsu High School. This one's more for the Japanese audience, though Kunio does have his fans here in the West, namely for the awesome NES brawler River City Ransom. He's a Famicom icon over there, with dozens of games ranging from sports to beat-em-ups with new games being made to this day. I don't really see him being DLC due to his sorta niche status over in the West, so if he's gonna get in, getting in the base roster is the best shot he's got.

A "Surprise" Character:
It's tradition at this point. We got Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, Piranha Plant, you know the drill. I always look forward to seeing what unlikely/obscure facet of Nintendo's history Sakurai can conjure up into being a fighter. What will it be this time? Will it be Diskun, the mascot of the Famicom Disk System? A throwback to Nintendo's hanafuda card days? A playable Ultra Hand? The Reckless Wii Remote Safety Guy? Anything's possible with this series.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And as we all know, Mario should be based exclusively on the original Donkey Kong.

Ken isn't based on his original appearance, but he's still an Echo.

Honestly, A Switch 2 edition with Smash Run returning would be absolutely phenomenal. This is still the roster where everyone is here, it'd be amazing to have everyone beating up enemies and exploring the new map.

Especially if we get a bunch of new generic enemies from newcomers' series.

Gimmie some FF Cactuars and Tomberrys. Gimmie DQ Slimes and Golems.

Say guys, do you think that in the June Nintendo Direct, we may get more news on Donkey Kong Banaza and maybe something Smash related, like a hint at a new Smash game or maybe an Ultimate Switch 2 Edition?

Maybe. They might try and spread S2Es out a little more, to serve as filler releases.

Have you guys heard of SSQM?

Yeah, it's a competitive format of Spirit Battles that makes Ultimate play more like Melee.

It’s not often I agree with Delzethin (especially his… “interesting” character choices) But I’d say he’s onto something with the Switch 2 Edition idea.

I'd hardly call it his idea. People have been suggesting it since S2Es were revealed.