Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

People disliking Corrin mainly comes from the west. Even then Corrin is still pretty popular (mostly Female Corrin though).

Far as I know, Corrin is pretty beloved in Japan.

Also they chose the male version as the default option, who was the less popular version, so I have even further doubt popularity was a factor for Corrin's inclusion in Smash.

Female Corrin wasn't the clear frontrunner back when the Smash characters were decided.

Wasn't til 2016 or so when Female Corrin really broke apart from the male version.

 

[Schnee117]

Actually crunching some numbers:
Corrin overall (27290) did better than Marth did overall (24547).
Corrin overall (27290) did better than Robin did (24536).

and I THINK female Robin (but she was cutting it close) were in the female top ten.





Numbers, man.

Female Robin was Eleventh in the Poll for the female side.

The numbers Mason, what do they mean?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Female Corrin wasn't the clear frontrunner back when the Smash characters were decided.

Wasn't til 2016 or so when Female Corrin really broke apart from the male version.

Really? Well I guess that's fair.

Still, there is the point that they probably didn't even want to wait to see how popular each Corrin would be and then select the more popular version as the default one, mainly because popularity was never stated as a factor for Corrin's inclusion.

Far as I know, Corrin is pretty beloved in Japan.

You know, for all the talk about Corrin and Bayonetta's inclusion, we never talked about how the Japanese reacted to them (frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see Corrin being more well-received among the Japanese Smash fanbase. Bayonetta's Japanese reception would also be interesting to find out.)

 

[Opossum]

That being said, I definitely think female Corrin will become the default in Smash 5 onwards.

Assuming she isn't cut, of course, but I have no reason to think she'd be cut barring a reboot.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People disliking Corrin mainly comes from the west.

Probably doesn't help that some Smash fans in the west often complaints about the amount of anime-styled swordsmen. Imagine the hate Isaac will get at this point from these guys if he hypothetically gets into a Smash game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Probably doesn't help that some Smash fans in the west often complaints about the amount of anime-styled swordsmen. Imagine the hate Isaac will get at this point from these guys if he hypothetically gets into a Smash game.

Oh I meant from the Western Fire Emblem fanbase.

Corrin isn't exactly written in a way that appeals to western ideals.

 

[Opossum]

Oh I meant from the Western Fire Emblem fanbase.

Corrin isn't exactly written in a way that appeals to western ideals.

I just find it funny that a lot of the main lords who get a lot of flack among the western Fire Emblem fanbase (Roy, Lyn, and Corrin come to mind) are also among the most popular. Echo chambers, I tell ya.

 

[Luminario]

Just to throw in my own 2 cents on Pauline (that was also brought up in the Mario Odyssey thread) she could easily pull a Rosalina and use Cappy's abilities from Odyssey, especially with her gorgeous purple sun hat.

On the topic of Corrin, I'm still confused about why they're male by default, as they use the female Corrin's win animation from Fates as a taunt and victory screen but the male one is nowhere to be seen.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Oh I meant from the Western Fire Emblem fanbase.

Corrin isn't exactly written in a way that appeals to western ideals.

I see. That statement about him getting tons of hate in the west is equally applicable to the Smash fanbase as it is the Fire Emblem fanbase.

I just find it funny that a lot of the main lords who get a lot of flack among the western Fire Emblem fanbase (Roy, Lyn, and Corrin come to mind) are also among the most popular. Echo chambers, I tell ya.

Why does Lyn get hate?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just find it funny that a lot of the main lords who get a lot of flack among the western Fire Emblem fanbase (Roy, Lyn, and Corrin come to mind) are also among the most popular. Echo chambers, I tell ya.

Lyn gets flack?

This'd be the first I heard about that.

But yeah Corrin, Roy and Lyn are all still incredibly popular.

I see. That statement about him getting tons of hate in the west is equally applicable to the Smash fanbase as it is the Fire Emblem fanbase.

Keep in mind though.

The amount of fans in both cases outnumber the dissenters.

These characters have done well on FE popularity polls and are used competitively. So they're well liked.

 

[Opossum]

Lyn gets flack?

This'd be the first I heard about that.

But yeah Corrin, Roy and Lyn are all still incredibly popular.


Keep in mind though.

The amount of fans in both cases outnumber the dissenters.

These characters have done well on FE popularity polls and are used competitively. So they're well liked.

In the threads I've read, generally the "worst lord" threads, many dislike her for her being kind of bland (their words, not mine), being a liability at times, and the fact that her route is a tutorial.

Not nearly to the extent of Roy as far as gameplay complaints or Corrin as far as character-based complaints, but enough to be notable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

In the threads I've read, generally the "worst lord" threads, many dislike her for her being kind of bland (their words, not mine), being a liability at times, and the fact that her route is a tutorial.

Not nearly to the extent of Roy as far as gameplay complaints or Corrin as far as character-based complaints, but enough to be notable.

Well I guess that goes the show that most nice things will get dissenters.

I personally think Lyn and Roy are pretty great and Corrin only needs a better writer to be great.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally, I don't see any reason to give her flak, but she is rather overhyped.

 

[FunAtParties]

Correction on the Corrin bit.

Fates didn't release in the West yet. It was already out in Japan for several months and the west definitely knew about the game and Corrin.

Yeah I messed up on that, still think it's ridiculous to claim Corrin was popular.

just saying, corrin was super popular in japan when the game first came out based on our oblnly real data, being the mist popular female character in a famitsu poll and if memory serves 4th most popular male. and since japan was the only market at the time with the western opinion wasnt really a factor yet

a minor detail

I'm going to need proof on that one, I followed pretty much every poll l could find back then and never saw Corrin/Kamui/Avatar named once on ANY of them. I also distinctly remember everyone claiming that Cloud and all the other DLC were probably top on the polls at the time, and then just dropping the argument entirely when Corrin showed up.

Remember, we're talking about before the inclusion, not after.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm going to need proof on that one, I followed pretty much every poll l could find back then and never saw Corrin/Kamui/Avatar named once on ANY of them. I also distinctly remember everyone claiming that Cloud and all the other DLC were probably top on the polls at the time, and then just dropping the argument entirely when Corrin showed up.

Remember, we're talking about before the inclusion, not after.

Fire Emblem polls.

He's talking about Fire Emblem polls.

Corrin scored really high on Fire Emblem polls.

 

[FunAtParties]

Fire Emblem polls.

He's talking about Fire Emblem polls.

Corrin scored really high on Fire Emblem polls.

Oh that makes more sense, especially with the whole male/female talk.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If you combine all the votes of alternate versions of characters (like male & female Robin and Corrin and characters who appear in multiple games like Marth, Ike, Hector, and Tiki) this is the order of characters with the highest amount of votes.

1) Ike
2) Lyn
3) Lucina
4) Tharja
5) Roy
6) Hector
7) Corrin
8) Camilla
9) Marth
10) Robin
11) Chrom
12) Tiki

 

[Opossum]

If you combine all the votes of alternate versions of characters (like male & female Robin and Corrin and characters who appear in multiple games like Marth, Ike, Hector, and Tiki) this is the order of characters with the highest amount of votes.

1) Ike
2) Lyn
3) Lucina
4) Tharja
5) Roy
6) Hector
7) Corrin
8) Camilla
9) Marth
10) Robin
11) Chrom
12) Tiki

You know, call me crazy, but swap out Camilla and Tharja for Caeda and Celica, and that'd be a damn good Fire Emblem roster for Smash 14, IMO.

 

[FunAtParties]

If you combine all the votes of alternate versions of characters (like male & female Robin and Corrin and characters who appear in multiple games like Marth, Ike, Hector, and Tiki) this is the order of characters with the highest amount of votes.

1) Ike
2) Lyn
3) Lucina
4) Tharja
5) Roy
6) Hector
7) Corrin
8) Camilla
9) Marth
10) Robin
11) Chrom
12) Tiki

I don't follow this series like I used to, but back in my day the FE fandom hated Roy, what happened?

You know, call me crazy, but swap out Camilla and Tharja for Caeda and Celica, and that'd be a damn good Fire Emblem roster for Smash 14, IMO.

Listen, if I have to put up with 10 FE characters, you gotta put up with Camilla.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

but back in my day the FE fandom hated Roy, what happened?

Japan loves Roy.
Smash Bros fans love Roy.
Only hardcore Western FE fans hate Roy.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

So what?

So I'm pointing out that you're misinterpreting thing's I've said and that you're contradicting yourself.

 

[splat]

Just for the record, I would be fine with an "impossible characters" thread, but I would ask that discussion stay in that thread.

A bit of a late response to this, but would you also be fine with a general move set thread? I think it'd be pretty cool to have a collection of community move set ideas.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I would love it if characters like Alm, Sigurd, Seliph, and Leif were alternate costumes for Marth.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

A bit of a late response to this, but would you also be fine with a general move set thread? I think it'd be pretty cool to have a collection of community move set ideas.

Moveset ideas should probably go in the character's support thread.

 

[splat]

Moveset ideas should probably go in the character's support thread.

Not every character deserves their own thread. I made a Battalion Wars Infantry unit moveset that I'd like to share for example, but I don't think he needs his own thread.

Also, I think it'd just be cool to have all of them in one place.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You know, if being iconic was a requirement for being in Smash, we wouldn't have seen these characters:* and the problem with the whole iconic character > iconic franchise mentality is that whilst far from every character included in an iconic franchise is iconic in their own right (see: Geno) characters that appear in less popular franchises can't really become iconic just by virtue of how little exposure they get from being in said franchise. Look at it this way, if Captain Falcon didn't appear in Smash, very few people would even remember him.

*Outside the Japanese version of Melee.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Not every character deserves their own thread. I made a Battalion Wars Infantry unit moveset that I'd like to share for example, but I don't think he needs his own thread.

Also, I think it'd just be cool to have all of them in one place.

You can always just post it here in this thread, like I did with that NES Sports game compilation moveset I posted a while ago.

 

[FunAtParties]

You know, if being iconic was a requirement for being in Smash, we wouldn't have seen these characters:* and the problem with the whole iconic character > iconic franchise mentality is that whilst far from every character included in an iconic franchise is iconic in their own right (see: Geno) characters that appear in less popular franchises can't really become iconic just by virtue of how little exposure they get from being in said franchise. Look at it this way, if Captain Falcon didn't appear in Smash, very few people would even remember him.

*Outside the Japanese version of Melee.

I agree with this, though Marth and Olimar probably don't belong in that group.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I still find it funny that Mr. Game & Watch literally didn't even exist before being put into a game. Roy technically existed as a concept before being put into Smash.

 

[FunAtParties]

I still find it funny that Mr. Game & Watch literally didn't even exist before being put into a game. Roy technically existed as a concept before being put into Smash.

He existed, he was just a culmination of generic characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

He existed, he was just a culmination of generic characters.

So basically, he is a fusion character?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If being iconic was all that mattered most of the roster would consist of Mario and Mario spinoff characters and 1st gen Pokémon.

 

[Stratos]

I hope for newcomers who I would like to appear:

Inkling
Jin Kazama
Takamaru
Mike Jones
Cross (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
Sping Man
Sukapon
Ryu Hayabusa
Waluigi
Isaac
King K. Rool
Black Shadow

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

If being iconic was all that mattered most of the roster would consist of Mario and Mario spinoff characters and 1st gen Pokémon.

i'd play that game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Caught up after forgetting to click on the alert a week or two ago
Sylux has nothing really going for it in hindsight, until it hit me. Prime 4's a single player adventure according to press documents iirc. Which means Sylux will certainly get new moves, as Hunters was held back by focusing on a multiplayer mode first. I can imagine Sylux becoming the new Metroid Prime too, as in, the main villain of a trilogy.

Also was there REALLY a debate about Pauline being the next most likely character for either Mario or DK? I lost brain cells processing that. Mario's got a large cast, but I feel Nabbit would be the next character from the main series. DK still has Dixie or Cranky if you want to play the relevance card

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

If being iconic was all that mattered most of the roster would consist of Mario and Mario spinoff characters and 1st gen Pokémon.

To me, having only iconic characters in Smash would get predictable and maybe boring. Having some curve ball picks mixes things up a bit and may be interesting for a revival like Pit did after Brawl.

I hope for newcomers who I would like to appear:

Inkling
Jin Kazama
Takamaru
Mike Jones
Cross (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
Sping Man
Sukapon
Ryu Hayabusa
Waluigi
Isaac
King K. Rool
Black Shadow

You, S Stratos have some good picks of newcomers. I definitely would take Ryu Hayabusa, K. Rool, and Takamaru in a second. If the Isaac you listed is the one from Golden Sun, I would gladly accept him, too.

 

[Stratos]

You, S Stratos have some good picks of newcomers. I definitely would take Ryu Hayabusa, K. Rool, and Takamaru in a second. If the Isaac you listed is the one from Golden Sun, I would gladly accept him, too.

Thank you and the Isaac yes he is from the Golden Sun.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Mario's got a large cast, but I feel Nabbit would be the next character from the main series.

Why Nabbit of all characters?

 

[Luminario]

Mario's got a large cast, but I feel Nabbit would be the next character from the main series.

Wait, why Nabbit? I wouldn't say his chances are above Pauline, let alone characters like Toad, Daisy, and Waluigi.
Edit: 'd

 

[FunAtParties]

One appearance for Pauline doesn't all the sudden make her a top contender, or at least it shouldn't. Nabbit has some ongoing appearances going for him becoming more and more prominent to the Mario universe as a whole. He's even been playable in some spinoffs.