The BlazBlue Thread: all the imports!

[Minato]

Considering how unique each of the character's abilities are, I say they did a pretty nice job in trying to make it balanced.
Regardless... it's still not balanced.

o.o maybe mario circuit for snes without dry bones o.o

or megaman soccer with everyone being megaman xD

I seriously was going to mention Mario Kart. XD
And I have a sudden urge to play Mega Man Soccer again...

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Gawd, it took a while for me to consistently get Noel's timing for the 6C -> throw cancel thing.

Nice Yuzu avatar, lol. Yuzu <3

 

[Matador]

this game is not balanced.

No game is perfectly balanced, that's somehing of a pipe dream.

However, I see great Bang, Hakumen and Tager players just like I see great Nu, Arakune and Rachel players. That's not saying Hakumen = Rachel in terms of tourney viability; God no.

That's saying they did a hell of a job balancing this game, and it's refreshing to see that after the myriad of clearly lop-sided games released recently.

 

[CRASHiC]

The game is more broken than Brawl.- Afro Thundah

 

[Superstar]

I remember thinking that in Guilty Gear until I learned more stuff. Like my brother could lock me in a corner with Chip just doing jump dust jump dust jump dust until I learned about the Perfect Guard. You sure that person knows what he's saying [might be an uninformed comment on my part].

I don't care about Brawl being broken, I just care if its fun. Brawl to me really isn't fun.

 

[Matador]

The game is more broken than Brawl.- Afro Thundah

I wish there were a game nearly as broken as Brawl in existence so I could point and laugh at its community.

 

[CRASHiC]

I remember thinking that in Guilty Gear until I learned more stuff. Like my brother could lock me in a corner with Chip just doing jump dust jump dust jump dust until I learned about the Perfect Guard. You sure that person knows what he's saying [might be an uninformed comment on my part].

I don't care about Brawl being broken, I just care if its fun. Brawl to me really isn't fun.

Erm, do you know who Afro Tundah is? He is one of the top competitive gamers in Florida.
He knows what he is talking about.
And at any rate, guilty gear is 10000000 times more balanced.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

I wish there were a game nearly as broken as Brawl in existence so I could point and laugh at its community.

Marvel says hi. Also, that it's still the ****.

Erm, do you know who Afro Tundah is? He is one of the top competitive gamers in Florida.
He knows what he is talking about.

Daaaaaaaamn

How's that dickriding going?

 

[CRASHiC]

Not sayin WOW SO GOOD
Just sayin he knows what he is talking about.
Also, Serlin would disagree with you about Marvel being unbalanced, unless you are talking about the new one.

 

[Superstar]

Why I added the sub comment. I didn't know you or him so I was making sure.

When you don't own Blazblue itself, don't know anyone with it, and only have its spiritual predecessor, you tend not to know the specifics. Could have come from either an experienced player or a complete novice, so I was fishing for information.

Reading though I think you mean broken balance wise. Not broken mechanics wise. Or maybe that too.

 

[CRASHiC]

Oh xD Yeah, I meant balance.
But in that regard, there is the Carl loop, something GG doesn't have.

 

[Superstar]

If the Carl loop is infinite, pretty disgusting. But meh.

I ask this though, how balanced is the top tier in Blazblue vs each other? I know in Brawl, MK is a good notch away and a few characters are balanced among the top, but how is it in Blazblue? Sorry for being dumb, its hard to get any good in a game that you don't have the system for. XD

All I know is that Arakune is good as well as V-13, and Rachel is apparently well received.

 

[CRASHiC]

http://www.dustloop.com/
this can help you along.
Reading therecan help you improve your game before you touch a controller again.

 

[Dreadz18x]

blazblue is at its first edition right now.

yea its unbalanced and ****. me afro and flashmetroid discussed this a few weeks back. the game has alotta problems but i see it has alotta potential

the first guilty gear was baddddddd but now look at accent core :D

blazblue is better than the first guilty gear but needs to be fixed regardless.

 

[Matador]

Erm, do you know who Afro Tundah is? He is one of the top competitive gamers in Florida.
He knows what he is talking about.

I only wish I could show you how incredibly minute my concern for his opinion ACTUALLY is when it comes to anything other than Brawl, especially with no basis behind it. Nothing against him, seeing as I don't know him.

But when smashers voice their outrageous opinions about other games, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth for having taken them seriously in the first place.

Marvel says hi. Also, that it's still the ****.

Marvel? Marvel what? Surely you don't mean Marvel vs Capcom.

Edit: I'm not seeing what's so unbalanced about it. Someone mind breaking it down for me?

 

[Superstar]

@ CRASHiC : I checked there for Guilty Gear, actually. Just reading many stuff to get one tiny summation on a game I don't own yet doesn't quite seem worth it.

All I have is $120 right now. Without an allowance or a job [I need to learn to drive, but I can't find the interest], I have no source of income and can't really save for it.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Not sayin WOW SO GOOD
Just sayin he knows what he is talking about.
Also, Serlin would disagree with you about Marvel being unbalanced, unless you are talking about the new one.

If he disagreed with that, it's only because he has no idea what MvC2 actually is. Play MSS vs any low tier team. If you're the same skill level, you should **** them ridiculously hard.

In b4 cyclops/servbot jwong style.

Oh xD Yeah, I meant balance.
But in that regard, there is the Carl loop, something GG doesn't have.

Instead, in GGXX, Slayer had an infinite throw loop. If you didn't have a throw invincible move, one command grab meant GGs. Poor Zappa. =(

If the Carl loop is infinite, pretty disgusting. But meh.

I ask this though, how balanced is the top tier in Blazblue vs each other? I know in Brawl, MK is a good notch away and a few characters are balanced among the top, but how is it in Blazblue? Sorry for being dumb, its hard to get any good in a game that you don't have the system for. XD

All I know is that Arakune is good as well as V-13, and Rachel is apparently well received.

It's infinite against most the cast, but only if Nirvana has enough meter. It's better to describe as a 0-death loop.

Nu is better than Kune and Rachel, but she can be beaten. She's still REALLY REALLY good, though.

Marvel? Marvel what? Surely you don't mean Marvel vs Capcom.

Edit: I'm not seeing what's so unbalanced about it. Someone mind breaking it down for me?

I ~think~ you're joking. I hope.

And are you talking about MvC2 balance, or BB?

 

[halcyon.days]

Anyways to get away from the hating on games here...

PSNs anyone? Just got the game :3

 

[Perfect Hero]

Anybody here want some BlazBlue games on Xbox Live?

Gamertag = L History L

If you want to play other games, I also play Marvel2, Street Fighter 2/4 on there.

 

[Matador]

I ~think~ you're joking. I hope.

And are you talking about MvC2 balance, or BB?

I never said MvC2 was balanced. I was going more in the direction that anyone suggesting that MvC2 was even nearly as broken a game as Brawl is insane.

AND, I wanted to know what was so imbalanced about Blazblue.

 

[Perfect Hero]

It's pretty much like 3rd Strike Balance where the Top 3 dominate(Nu, Arakune, Rachel) -(Chun, Yun, Ken) and then theres contenders like Jin and Carl who do pretty good against the rest of the cast or like 3s, Dudley and Makoto.

Characters like Tager and Hakumen and even Bang can't hang with the Top 3 because it's almost impossible to get in on a good (nu,ara,rachel).

The worst matchup in the game currently, from the latest matchup chart anyway is 8-2 Carl/Tager matchup.

v-13 has an advantage in every matchup.

Top 3 = v13, rachel, arakune
Upper = Jin, Carl
Middle = Ragna, Noel, Litchi
Lower = Taokaka, Haku, Bang Tager

I can't see the bottom 3 hanging with the top 3 at all, middle tier characters are all at a disadvantage against top 3.

SO YEAHHH 3RD STRIKE BALANCE

cept Chun is less annoying than v-13

 

[ChaosKnight]

haha BS mannnn ive seen good *** top 3 get wrecked by those bottom three remember when you think about high level play its always how much smarter the other player virtually... the character may play certain factors but at high level play think about it ...


i see matchup ratios too be an excuse to say ''oh you have advantage''

 

[Lythium]

Top 3 = v13, rachel, arakune
Upper = Jin, Carl
Middle = Ragna, Noel, Litchi
Lower = Taokaka, Haku, Bang Tager

Where did you get this list? It doesn't seem very accurate.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Yeah, I believe that is now an old tier list...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

v-13 has an advantage in every matchup.
Top 3 = v13, rachel, arakune
Upper = Jin, Carl
Middle = Ragna, Noel, Litchi
Lower = Taokaka, Haku, Bang Tager

>__>

I don't agree with you.

Edit: And get Carl out of high tier! Seriously.

Smooth Criminal

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Or replace Carl with Nirvana, lol.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Lol!

Nirvana > Carl.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Matador]

>__>

I don't agree with you.

Edit: And get Carl out of high tier! Seriously.

Smooth Criminal

That's the most recent I've been able to find too.

Carl ftw.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

>__>

I don't agree with you.

Edit: And get Carl out of high tier! Seriously.

Smooth Criminal

Why would Carl be any lower than high tier? 0-death on 8 members of the cast, 9 if ragna has less than 50% tension, 10 if'n Rachel ran outta win, 11 if Carl can't position his robot to take the hit. Only Haku currently has a guaranteed way out. He can do to you with a jab combo what you do to him off 50% CH combos. His guard libra, neg penalty, and health are crappy, and he has few responses to solid pressure or good zoning aside from smart IBing into punish/repositioning.

Plus, he has unique movement options. Stuff like dj, iad, sj, aren't all that different, but his dash is a hop instead, allowing for buffering at any point in the dash. His jump can be canceled with a move that goes straight down, and can either bounce off the opponent's head to cross-up/run away, or be canceled to plunge straight down with no lag. Not only is it good damage, but j.2c can be an insanely ambiguous cross-up. You can use it to cancel your iad, and if that wasn't enough for you, you can also cancel the j.2c into a grab. Doing that will make the air dash curve very suddenly. You can use it to get in on Nu, since it goes right between 5d, 6d, and other key zoning spots.

Don't forget that he also has unblockables!

So yeah... good Carl is good. Bad Carl is hella easy to destroy.

I never said MvC2 was balanced. I was going more in the direction that anyone suggesting that MvC2 was even nearly as broken a game as Brawl is insane.

AND, I wanted to know what was so imbalanced about Blazblue.

Ah, hyperbole. Gotcha.

Nu's pretty much MK, Rachel has insane damage/off/def, and Carl has a 0-death on most the cast.

It's not SUPEROMG broken, but it can stand for a few tweaks.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

>_>

You got me there, Eye-Oh-Zee. Looks like I need to brush up on the metagame a little more and actually play half-decent Carls. I knew that infinites are one of the strongest aspects of his character, but I always found stuff like that to be situational enough to where you couldn't really factor it in to overall performance. If I remember correctly, some of your high-end characters in a infinite-ridden game like Marvel aren't high-end because of their infinites (per se). They have plenty of other tools as well. Hearing about the sheer amount of options that he has with movement and his counter-zoning though...well, you got me to thinking.

Thanks for the enlightenment. I need to get up off of my lazy *** and get down to business.

(This is a legit "thank you," btw.)

Smooth Criminal

 

[Matador]

So yeah... good Carl is good. Bad Carl is hella easy to destroy.

Yeah, it's ridiculously easy to deal with a bad Carl, but good Carl players only really need a jab to setup for claploop. I know that's the case for me and I'm no DIO.

Ah, hyperbole. Gotcha.

Nu's pretty much MK, Rachel has insane damage/off/def, and Carl has a 0-death on most the cast.

It's not SUPEROMG broken, but it can stand for a few tweaks.

I suppose it's nothing a few patches or something can't fix.

As it stands, however, I like the fact that Hakumen, Tager and Bang all remain contenders and can be taken seriously at high level play.

 

[Perfect Hero]

haha BS mannnn ive seen good *** top 3 get wrecked by those bottom three remember when you think about high level play its always how much smarter the other player virtually... the character may play certain factors but at high level play think about it ...


i see matchup ratios too be an excuse to say ''oh you have advantage''

You know, just because you've seen top tier get wrecked, does not mean they don't have a very good advantage. I've seen Chun, Yun, Ken get wrecked by Q, Necro, Ibuki, even Sean, it doesnt mean the characters aren't fighting an extreme uphill battle.

In fact, once the Q player Kuroda started using otehr characters in SBO, he's now considered(arguably) the best well rounded 3s player.

And please, only scrubs use matchup ratios as an excuse....

Where did you get this list? It doesn't seem very accurate.

Versus City, compiled by top players, most recent I could find.

Yeah, I believe that is now an old tier list...

Find a newer one.

>__>

I don't agree with you.

Edit: And get Carl out of high tier! Seriously.

Smooth Criminal

What's not to agree with? From playing the game, you can see how reasonable the list is.
Top 3 = full screen pressure regardless of position, arakune CURSE ON BLOCK, nu can get so much damage off anything with high priority pokes to relieve pressure, rachel has pretty everything.

Upper = Jin is well rounded in all regards and has favorable matchups in almost all
Carl, after they discovered his throw loop has bumped to Upper

Mid = debatable but Ragna, Noel, Litchi can DEFINITELY handle the top 3 better than tager haku and Bang

That's the most recent I've been able to find too.

Carl ftw.

V-13: 13
Rachel: 10
Arakune: 10
Jin: 7
Litchi: 4
Bang: 3
Noel: 3
Carl: 3
Taokaka: 3
Ragna: 2
Hakumen: 1
Tager: 1

^ That's the number of players who qualified to SBO for their respective characters. As you can see 13 v-13s compared to 1 tager and hakumen lol....

So yeap, this game resembles 3rd Strike balance


-and people we know the worst character can beat the best character in the game-
-it does not mean the game is balanced-

 

[Matador]

V-13: 13
Rachel: 10
Arakune: 10
Jin: 7
Litchi: 4
Bang: 3
Noel: 3
Carl: 3
Taokaka: 3
Ragna: 2
Hakumen: 1
Tager: 1

^ That's the number of players who qualified to SBO for their respective characters. As you can see 13 v-13s compared to 1 tager and hakumen lol....

This isn't surprising. I'm not saying there's no distinct difference in the tiers, because there are for exactly the reasons you've mentioned. But people flock to top tiers, that's just a fact.

So yeap, this game resembles 3rd Strike balance


-and people we know the worst character can beat the best character in the game-
-it does not mean the game is balanced-

lol, then you tell me. What does it mean?

In comparison to Melee, 3S, MvC2, SF4, GG and pretty much any competitive game ever released, I'm saying that Blazblue is pretty well balanced.

In comparison. Not "lol Tager =/=Nu wtf are u talking about". I'm talking about Gimpy having a chance vs M2K's Marth in Melee.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Give us a couple months and we'll all get a new one.

What you say IS really the current tier list, I'm not disagreeing with that:

(and repeating what you posted for clarification):

S:
Nu-13
Rachel
Arakune

A:
Jin
Carl

B:
Ragna
Noel
Litchi
Taokaka

C:
Hakumen
Bang

D:
Tager

I'm just saying that some people consider it outdated, but still viable. Don't blame me, I see it on other forums. Someone called it an "average joe" tier list.

dustloop, http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/42760/t1394212-blazblue-offical-tier-list-6-29-09/, shoryuken, blah blah blah...

Does tier discussion usually have comparisons with other games? Just asking, 'cause I'm clueless...

 

[DFEAR]

accent core is somewhat balanced. blazblue will get there eventually. when a game can use ALL their characters in tourney at high levels of play, then its balanced. btw arakune/nu vs tager is very lol indeed.

so any rumors about the update? what to expect to be in it? release date?

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I'm still thinking that it's just a rumor...

Still, dunno. There's not much about it.

Unless I've been living under a rock this whole time. x_x

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Rachel is so high. T_T ☆

☆ Oh well, at least I main her because I like her, not to be a tier ***** or anything. =P ☆

 

[DFEAR]

wonder who will stick with their mains even if they would nerf or buff their characters o.o?

 

[Lythium]

The most recent tier list that I've been able to find, as of June 29:

v-13: 11.5
Rachel: 9.0
Arakune: 6.0
Jin: 4.5
Carl: 4.0
Ragna: 0.0
Noel: 0.0
Litchi: -1.0
Taokaka: -1.5
Haku-men: -3.5
Bang: -7.5
Tager: -15.0

I don't necessarily agree with it, but there you have it.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I <3 Noel, so I'm fine whereever she is.

LOL. That's the 3rd same tier list posted!