The Doc: Game Play General

[AGES]

Any suggestions? How should I change up playstyle from Mario?

- Bair is life
- Dthrow into Uair/Dair is a good bread and butter combo and works until some pretty high percents
- If you are playing on stages like warioware fd, try using doc's wall jump to get some extra height, he reeeeally needs it
- Bair is life
- Wall jump can also be useful on these stages in case you wanna go deep on a low edgeguard vs characters like shulk
- Utilt still has strong combo potential despite how dthrow has a lot more KB, so you would rather use it as a low percent punish
- Up B out of shield is a pretty nice option at higher percents
- You can also turn around(b reverse i guess) Up B after hitting someone, refer to TTS'd's vid above
- Dr Mario is infinitely cooler than mario so be proud of your decision to pick the KO prescriber

 

[Kisatamura]

Don't overuse Dair and Dr Tornado, unlike Mario's dair in this game repeatedly using Dr Mario's dair will get you thrown. I use the tornado as a read to rolls or an air combo finisher. Dair works as a really funny edgeguard offstage since it'll send opponents at a diagonal angle, making it good for forcing people offstage.

Doc's bair is better than Mario's since it has more knockback making it good for edgeguarding or whatever.

Since Doc's cape doesn't stall and keeps his momentum, you can use Side B as a different approach. I don't recommend using it in place of nair or bair though.

Doc can do Mario's utilt combo, but it's character dependent if you want to throw them first. But if you catch an opponent with a Doc utilt, you can go right into that combo.

Also, fair's easier to use with Doc since you can KO them on stage at around 130, and near the edge at around 90-ish

 

[BSP]

What do you guys do vs ZSS? She has given me the most trouble when I play Doc.

@Skymin50 much differently. Doc is a bruiser in the game compared to Mario. The rush down tactics don't really work. I use a turtle style with him, using pills to force reactions; however, that leaves me at a loss against characters that need to be chased down, out camp Doc, outrange him hard, etc.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think if you have to play offensive with Doc it works if you use pills to cover your way in. The main reason I say this is because his short hop is low as it should be, because this makes SH Bair into shields a more reliable option than it is for Mario. I think he works best at the mid-range and then going into the punish game IMO.

You can't really rush down as effectively as Mario but you can do a cautious approach. I imagine I'll get better with a GC controller for this, especially with my spacing.

 

[Dobbston]

Dr. Mario's shff Bair is awesome but it can whiff on shorter characters unless you fast fall very early.

 

[TTTTTsd]

What do you guys do vs ZSS? She has given me the most trouble when I play Doc.

This one is interesting. I just do pills and if she tries laser I cape it, but I always stay far away until she commits to something. She has no real true counter to the pills that I can't say, react to, so all I advise is patience. If you're on Battlefield you have to be real careful though.

 

[Blue Mage]

Can someone test if Dtilt > Fair is a true combo? I've been getting it consistently in training mode on Lvl 9 CPU. So far, lighter characters can be combo'd around ~85-90% (Jigglypuff for example, but the CPU has showed me she has a very brief window to react, so a human opponent might be able to dodge), and heavier characters or fastfallers like Dorf and Falcon can be combo'd around ~110%. I don't remember how much Marth weighs, but I got it consistently on him around 105%.

I know CPUs aren't the most reliable training partners, but considering Lvl 9's like to air dodge after just about EVERYTHING, it might be worth a shot to test.

 

[Dobbston]

Training mode is probably accurate for combos for the most part but I've never been able to combo into fair from dtilt. I have been able to do dtilt to Up B in training at some percents though; I've been able to combo dtilt into Up B on Lucario at 37% in training when I'm right next to them.

 

[Anragon]

I don't like training mode because the combo meter is really confusing sometimes. I did a random Fsmash to Side B as Luigi and it counted as a combo xD

Basically F-air is a move you will use as a edgeguard tool or when you hard read your opponent. The start-up of F-air is is slow just enough to not be reliable as a combo finisher sadly.

I find myself using it quite rarely actually (or maybe not enough ?). Maybe because Doc has less opportunities to land it... Off the stage, the ending lag is not forgiving since Doc's recovery is mediocre.

TL;DR : F-air won't combo from any move IMO

 

[Dobbston]

Training mode isn't accurate for everything but I think it can at least tell whether or not a character is in hitstun.

 

[Maître Luigi]

Down Throw -> F-Air is a hit confirmed combo on many characters.

Example:

 

[GlassTop]

Doc will be one of my mains. His recovery is pretty bad though.

 

[Kisatamura]

Dr. Mario's recovery has always been bad. It's just one of the things you just have accept, like Little Mac's recovery.

Down Throw -> F-Air is a hit confirmed combo on many characters.

Example:

Lol this is great, it's just like his setup in Melee. I tested it on some characters and it's a little bit damage dependent, I had the fair connect on Dark Pit at 100 but had the sourspot hit at 110.

Kills Mario at 107.

 

[Xinc]

Don't you have to read the DI though? Interesting catch though.

 

[Kisatamura]

Seems that way. Tried it on some computers and had the fair miss if it was a forward jump. Sometimes I have to jump straight up instead of forward like in the gif.

 

[Dobbston]

Dthrow to fair seems really awesome but I worry that maybe the opponent can use vectoring to make themselves too high to hit, really cool find though.

 

[M@v]

If you are looking for combo ideas with doc, here's some to start you off. Keep in mind no combo is set in stone in smash generally, di and other factors all play into how a combo progresses.

 

[Substitution]

Just curious, what are Dr. Mario's kill moves?

 

[ChefKef]

Just curious, what are Dr. Mario's kill moves?

Mainly fair and bair, but sweetspoted special up and special down on it's last attack have good launching power.

 

[M@v]

Fair is too slow to be relied upon. Dsmash and Fsmash are better honestly. Bair and down b still work fine.

 

[Ramz289]

I once caped a fox side-b then watched as he tried to up-b back to the stage, best feeling ever B).
I've been using cape to approach character with projectiles with mixed results

Also forward smash range makes me saaaad :'(.

Edit: Also Y NO1 POST MATCH VIDEOS!!?

 

[Kisatamura]

Just curious, what are Dr. Mario's kill moves?

Fair, Bair at around 130 to 150ish, UpB, Tornado at high percents, FSmash and DSmash.

Bair is a great kill move at high percents due to it's versatility. DSmash has really good knockback, it sends the opponent at a horizontal angle.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Played around w/ doc some more today. I really feel people are sleeping on this character. He has easy ~70% strings on most of the cast. I mean, WHO does that? lol, then it takes a couple more reads to get the kill. That's crazy good, I don't know who else can combo so well. All his moves are strong but don't hit too far so you can combo at low % & kill at high %. I don't know how deeply I will play him, but he's one of my 4 mains atm.

 

[Ramz289]

Played around w/ doc some more today. I really feel people are sleeping on this character. He has easy ~70% strings on most og the cast. I mean, WHO does that? lol, then it takes a couple more reads to get the kill. That's crazy good, I don't know who else can combo so well. All his moves are strong but don't hit too far so you can combo at low % & kill at high %. I don't know how deeply I will play him, but he's one of my 4 mains atm.

!?
What.
Vid pls.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yeah I'd like to see those strings too, not cause I don't believe he has untapped potential, but because I want to implement em.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I don't have vids right now. 70% on the heavier weights and like 45% on lighter weights seems about right. Most of it is d-throw, uptilts, upairs, nairs, grabs, jab, finisher, ect...

 

[Ramz289]

Oh.
Well you should have said it was against heavys from the start >:[
(I don't know why that didn't occur to me, damn I'm slow...)

I've been fooling around with rising full hop u-air and coming down with bair/nair/fair to punish there reaction, I've landed a lot of fairs that way lol.

 

[Exegguter]

Doc is great in this game imo. All of his smashes are very good. Usmash is basically safe, damaging and a nice ko move around 140%. Fsmash decreases his hitbox because he lunges back, so any predictable fair /tilts/grab can be dodged into this smash. Ko's really early as well :0

Pills are a great deffensive tool and force a lot of characters to approach. Especially handy against DDD since the pills bounce and make it hard for him to throw gordos without bouncing them back.

Cape is very good,very fast startup and doesnt change his momentum. Which is nice for if you're fastfalling and miss to counter the projectile.

His tilts are good, very fast and utilt combos great.

Throws are awesome, dthrow into dair/uair is amazing. I do wish his bthrow would kill a bit earlier though

Aireals are insane. Yo I cannot stress enough how good bair is. Dair is amazing for spotdogde happy people as well.

Upb oos is amazing at high %. Down b is amazing for landing and predicting spotdodge happy people. Plus it adds in dr. mario's vertical recovery.

Jabs are great, jab into grab is great or double jab -> usmash if you catch an airborn opponent.

Edgeguarding with him takes practise since you NEED to use the walljump. Stages like omega dreamland or yi are nice stages to edgeguard effectively because of the walls below the stage but stages without walls like bf reduce his edgeguard ability .

The only downfall dr mario has is his below avarage recovery, the thing I listed above and the lack of range against some characters. But he's a very very solid mid imo and really fun to play. Plus the most important thing for me is that dr mario has NO trouble killing. A lot of characters struggle with it in this game but it's one of doc's strongest points imo.


(I'm on my phone so excuse me for any typos XD).

 

[Ramz289]

I'm having trouble getting the K.O. with Doc. My only means of killing right now is landing raw fsmash, fresh dsmash and of stage bairs with the occasional up-b oos at high %.


When the F*** are you people going to start posting game play vids!!?!

 

[Exegguter]

I'm having trouble getting the K.O. with Doc. My only means of killing right now is landing raw fsmash, fresh dsmash and of stage bairs with the occasional up-b oos at high %.


When the F*** are you people going to start posting game play vids!!?!

I'll post some later on the day :D

 

[Ramz289]

I'll be patiently waiting....

 

[EvilShadow777]

Dr Mario's air game is where you are most likely to get a kill but keep in mind a grab will pretty much always give you the advantage and your b throw will straight kill at higher %s. Really your focus should be on good trades, juggling, and staying alive. If you're in approach range the kill opportunity will show up sooner or later.

 

[TTTTTsd]

You want a gameplay vid? I've got a Work in progress video with a placeholder title card, it needs more clips but it's otherwise solid. If you wanna see it I can post it ere, it's a compilation of greatness on For Glory.

 

[Kisatamura]

Here's a quickie match.

 

[M@v]

Also got a replay for you boys and girls. Actually found a half decent opponent on For Glory that made me work a little.Good chance to show some Doc play for you guys

 

[Ramz289]

FINALLY!!
I'll watch them again later because i'm sick and kinda zoned out when I watched earlier @_@.
I'm not fan of dair approaches, I have to say... god damn it I'm dyeing over ill post later :'(.

 

[Kisatamura]

Not sure if this was posted already, but tornado can be comboed into. Deals less damage than doing the usual utilts in UpB, but at least you can mash b to read the opponent's DI.

 

[Ramz289]

I take back what I said about dair approaches. I find that if your opponent rolls back or spot dodges they'll get hit by the last hitbox when you land. Of course if they roll forward or stay in shield (If there shield worn down a little the last hit might shield poke them) you're completely boned.

Short hope dair is good for people who rush you down recklessly, so if you getting hit with a lot of YOLO dash attack, this might be your answer. I say might because I'm having problems applying this against some characters (particularly Sonic), but it works against characters with annoying sidebs like Yoshi, Wario, the Koopakids ect. needs more testing tho...

 

[M@v]

Speaking of sonic, Down b beats out spindash as an FYI.

 

[Exegguter]

First sd was a misinput (dem 3ds controls) I tried to do cape..

Gotta pill ddd yo

I got some other vids against a dhd. DHD isn't to hard as doc. Pills reverse can and destroy gunman. Plus he's very easy to gimp as doc.