Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[Yonder]

Hello everyone! so i've been messing around with luigi recently, and during training mode one day, I found some really cool tricks including his crouch gliding (pxl walking). In this gameplay, I just mess around it, trying to find its applications in battle. I feel like this trick can be used in battle and help improve your gameplay, so check it out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lGoCr44uYk

That was a nice turnaround Up B at the end.

 

[TriTails]

Anyone finds that D-tilt is actually a reasonable combo tool?

Jab -> D-tilt works as long as they don't PS the first D-tilt (Thy can probably just mash shield, unsure if that puts them in airdodge or not though), and is repeatable.

D-tilt -> D-tilt actually works on someone like DK if they don't jump away.

 

[Pyr]

And, if they jump away... Above Luigi without a jump! =D

 

[Saturn_]

Does anyone have the frame data on dash grab vs. canceling your sprint with shieldgrab? Which can you act faster out of?

 

[hey_there]

Hello everyone! so i've been messing around with luigi recently, and during training mode one day, I found some really cool tricks including his crouch gliding (pxl walking). In this gameplay, I just mess around it, trying to find its applications in battle. I feel like this trick can be used in battle and help improve your gameplay, so check it out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lGoCr44uYk

Just to clarify, this has been known for a few years already since it was first discovered back in Brawl. Its called crawl dashing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itIOklgilxs&feature=player_detailpage#t=256s

Anyway, I think it's a cool technique and I've been incorporating it into my Luigi game because it's cool and also pretty useful. Mix in perfect pivoting and your Luigi will be dancing around the stage getting sweet combos and dodging punishes.

 

[E.Lopez]

Hello everyone! so i've been messing around with luigi recently, and during training mode one day, I found some really cool tricks including his crouch gliding (pxl walking). In this gameplay, I just mess around it, trying to find its applications in battle. I feel like this trick can be used in battle and help improve your gameplay, so check it out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lGoCr44uYk

First time I heard about this, that's pretty cool! The way Luigi moves because of this crouch gliding, it's... something to behold, for sure! And, that last Up B, so beautiful.

General question: I see Luigi mains, including your video, short hop d-air somewhat frequently while moving around the opponent, is there a reason for this? Is that move fairly reliable at hitting when the opponent closes in, or is it something else?

(By the way, I'm a Samus main trying very hard to find my secondary. No matter how many characters I try out, I just can't decide who I want to spend time with. But, Luigi does interest me a lot so I've been practicing a bit with him.)

 

[hey_there]

SH dair has a pretty big hitbox and it's a very non-committal move so you can throw it out there with very little risk to yourself. At worst nothing happens, at best you get land a hit. Basically it stops ground based approaches.

 

[RBreadsticks]

Sup luigi mains been playing with him for 20 hours or so looking for some combo advice

I know dthrow to fair to nair to utilt strings or usmash and or bair

I know dthrow to uair and dthrow to down b. Is there any safe way to dthrow to up b?

Just wondering if I'm missing out on any particular dthrow combos/strings ?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

The only safe way to Dthrow -> Up B is to actually land the Up B sweetspot. Missing or getting a coin = big damage on Luigi. Other than that, it can be fairly safe to try it by the ledge. Then you can retreat to the ledge as you fall if you miss. Take care to watch percentage tho. You don't wanna risk trying this if you are in kill range of another Dthrow -> kill setup.

 

[Yonder]

I never bother with D throw to Up B unless it's Rosa or maybe M2. D throw to tornado is just plain superior, much less risk involved for a similar reward depending on weight.

 

[Pyr]

I wouldn't say it's superior in every way. Grab>Uppercut does kill much earlier, can't be smash-DI'd down to force us to finish it lower (meaning that Down-B's kill % changes based on your opponent and their matchup knowledge), and is more consistent when it does land. It's a high risk, higher reward move that requires you to follow DI to get the hit, though, which is unattractive. I think it'll become a lot more relevant when people finally realize how to DI the tornado properly. I survived a 100% Luigi Down-B to 150% (non-stale) in the mirror because I know how to handle it, and, eventually, people en masse will pick up on how to do it, too.

For now, though, it's an early kill option for a 20-50% range before Down-B and/or NAir.

 

[Half-X]

really with tornado you just gotta find the kill percentage for it for each character, eventually they will die from it no matter how much DI

 

[MonkeyArms]

Here's something you might not know: Luigi's pivot grab can be used as a nice way to put distance between you and your opponent. Seriously, I've not only found that pivot grabbing away from my opponent can read rolls, but I've also found it gets me great space and its much safer than a back roll as you throw out a grab box and slide a bit further than a roll I believe.

 

[Steelballray]

Hello guys. I started trying to advance my combo game and I found good success in the D-throw>fair>nair> a million u-tilt and maybe an up smash. How good is this string? Is it practical? Will it be broken and/or punished if I use it vs. High level players? Please givee any info you can.

 

[Yonder]

Hello guys. I started trying to advance my combo game and I found good success in the D-throw>fair>nair> a million u-tilt and maybe an up smash. How good is this string? Is it practical? Will it be broken and/or punished if I use it vs. High level players? Please givee any info you can.

I use something similar (maybe 1-2 u tilt only though to set u smash up) at low percentages from 0, it's reliable. Easier on bigger characters and those with higher fall speeds.

Anyways, clothesline tornado is possibly the worst custom in game. Can't set up kills with it, can't recovery, doesn't kill early at all (Mach tornado's last hit kills earlier) sometimes it doesn't even hit them, awful ground movement...any uses at all? Not just being outclassed by the other 2...more than that.

 

[Steelballray]

I use something similar (maybe 1-2 u tilt only though to set u smash up) at low percentages from 0, it's reliable. Easier on bigger characters and those with higher fall speeds.

u-tilits without the D-throw? Don't you have to hit them from the back for them to bounce on the right place? I'm unsure, as with the combo I previously mentioned they always fall behind me a bit and that's where I hit them from.

 

[Yonder]

u-tilits without the D-throw? Don't you have to hit them from the back for them to bounce on the right place? I'm unsure, as with the combo I previously mentioned they always fall behind me a bit and that's where I hit them from.

Oh no, I always use d throw to set up my u tilt. Sorry for lack of clarification.

 

[Jacques]

u-tilits without the D-throw? Don't you have to hit them from the back for them to bounce on the right place? I'm unsure, as with the combo I previously mentioned they always fall behind me a bit and that's where I hit them from.

Even if they land behind you after you u-tilt, I think you can still turn-around grab, right? I don't do this too often myself so it'd be great if someone could confirm.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Even if they land behind you after you u-tilt, I think you can still turn-around grab, right? I don't do this too often myself so it'd be great if someone could confirm.

That is correct. You can turnaround and grab them after an Utilt. If they hit the ground first be careful because they can jab you before the grab comes out.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

With the new ledge mechanic I truly think Luigi's Dtaunt is a viable move.

 

[Yonder]

With the new ledge mechanic I truly think Luigi's Dtaunt is a viable move.

Watch not to double post please.

I've only been successful with the D taunt against Falcon/Ganondorf myself.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Watch not to double post please.

I've only been successful with the D taunt against Falcon/Ganondorf myself.

Sorry about the double post. No one has posted in the week since my last post so I thought an edit would be overlooked. Won't happen again tho.

I've had luck against Falcon too. But I've also gotten Pit and Falco before. If the opponent doesn't immediately grab ledge or recover onstage, you can set this up pretty nicely. Timing of course is very important as the hitbox isn't out for long at all and it has a long start up. But at any percent except high, I think this is the most optimal option.

 

[TriTails]

So someone in Smash Wiki did some data mining and discovered something that is 'WHAT!?'-worthy.

Luigi's down throw is unchanged from Brawl.

6%, 75 base/30 growth, and FAF at frame 40.

What the fffffffffffffff--- Did anyone noticed this sooner or is it me who is just dumb?

 

[Deleted member]

So someone in Smash Wiki did some data mining and discovered something that is 'WHAT!?'-worthy.

Luigi's down throw is unchanged from Brawl.

6%, 75 base/30 growth, and FAF at frame 40.

What the fffffffffffffff--- Did anyone noticed this sooner or is it me who is just dumb?

It was? I'm surprised... I thought Brawl Luigi's down throw had a bit more endlag or something, at least it felt like that.

I still use down throw in Brawl. It's pretty useful in that game.

 

[sp1r1t]

Hello guys. I've got a question for you.

For Aerials do you prefer the C-stick or the A-button? I've read that the c-stick is better but I've used the A-button for a long time and now I can't use the c-stick spontaneously.

 

[Astro !=]

There's no "best way," iirc Hungrybox uses the z button and he got 2nd at evo.

That being said, I use A for all my aerials out of a SH/FH, and c stick for all my aerials while I'm in the air.

It's much faster to hit X/Y + A than X/Y + c stick so using A basically ensures a buffer every time. I also set X to special so I can buffer B moves out of a SH/FH, which is useful for SH fireball and the d-throw -> nado combo.

Using c stick in the air allows you to input a direction with the control stick while tossing an aerial in any direction you want. This makes retreating fairs easy, just jump backwards and flick the c stick in the opposite direction you're traveling (as opposed to trying to quickly flick the control stick back and forth for each aerial). Also, the c stick can't make you fast fall, only the control stick can, so that's eliminates a potentially awful tech error.

One thing to note is that in smash 4, the c stick will either cancel or override the control stick (can't remember which). The solution is to either flick it fast (which is what I do), or set it to "Attack" instead of "Smash" in the control options.

If you can't make yourself use the c stick it's no big deal, but you should try to use it for dair and retreating aerials at the very least.

 

[TriTails]

I wish I have a New 3DS or a Wii U. I have ever threw out an F-tilt in place of F-smash. I also have difficulties on executing U-throw + full hop F-airs on floaties. Often times, the first F-air sends them backwards due not being backwards enough.

And also, doing Falcon's D-air while fast-falling. Yeah, that sucks too.

 

[sp1r1t]

There's no "best way," iirc Hungrybox uses the z button and he got 2nd at evo.

That being said, I use A for all my aerials out of a SH/FH, and c stick for all my aerials while I'm in the air.

It's much faster to hit X/Y + A than X/Y + c stick so using A basically ensures a buffer every time. I also set X to special so I can buffer B moves out of a SH/FH, which is useful for SH fireball and the d-throw -> nado combo.

Using c stick in the air allows you to input a direction with the control stick while tossing an aerial in any direction you want. This makes retreating fairs easy, just jump backwards and flick the c stick in the opposite direction you're traveling (as opposed to trying to quickly flick the control stick back and forth for each aerial). Also, the c stick can't make you fast fall, only the control stick can, so that's eliminates a potentially awful tech error.

One thing to note is that in smash 4, the c stick will either cancel or override the control stick (can't remember which). The solution is to either flick it fast (which is what I do), or set it to "Attack" instead of "Smash" in the control options.

If you can't make yourself use the c stick it's no big deal, but you should try to use it for dair and retreating aerials at the very least.

Thanks for your reply.

What is FH? I understand that SH goes for Short Hop but FH?

What do you mean by that: "the c stick will either cancel or override the control stick"

I think that i will practice more with the c-stick because i can't execute some specific moves simultaneously, like moving back + Bair. Just like what you said...

 

[TriTails]

FH is full hop. The one that comes out when you hold the jump button.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

So I've been labbing and messing around with dance trotting. As far back and forth movement, I'm not sure it's faster than dashing one way then dashing the other way. Seems about the same speed and is much more difficult. Dance trotting does move a shorter distance tho giving you less ground to cover for punishes. On the other hand, when trotting across the stage, I believe dance trotting is the better option because of the quick movement trotting gives you plus the ability to instantly turn around without fully completing the dash.

Us Luigi's should try and implement dance trotting into our game more. It makes our ground game much more dynamic.

 

[Wtfwasthat]

Hey guys! Would you guys reccomend foxtrotting or just simply walking with luigi? Ive been experimenting with both.

Also, im having trouble with the jumpless cyclone. I found a method that works for me but I often fastfall right before and i end up going down too deep. I dont know how to get out of this habit because I try to go quick to catch them off guard.

 

[Sacked]

So I've been labbing and messing around with dance trotting. As far back and forth movement, I'm not sure it's faster than dashing one way then dashing the other way. Seems about the same speed and is much more difficult. Dance trotting does move a shorter distance tho giving you less ground to cover for punishes. On the other hand, when trotting across the stage, I believe dance trotting is the better option because of the quick movement trotting gives you plus the ability to instantly turn around without fully completing the dash.

Us Luigi's should try and implement dance trotting into our game more. It makes our ground game much more dynamic.

I've been practicing foxtrot cancelling with luigi but can't get dance trotting down. Would you be willing to post a video or gfy of you dance trotting with luigi?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I've been practicing foxtrot cancelling with luigi but can't get dance trotting down. Would you be willing to post a video or gfy of you dance trotting with luigi?

I believe Foxtrot cancelling is the same thing. Just named differently

This is what I'm talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppw-igC6Uog

 

[Sacked]

I believe Foxtrot cancelling is the same thing. Just named differently

This is what I'm talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppw-igC6Uog

hmm okay I see what you mean and I guess I used the wrong terminology. I can do one foxtrot cancel. I just can't link them together to dance trot and go back and forth and I thought maybe seeing luigi do it would give me some guidance

 

[TriTails]

What would you guys do while people are hanging on the ledge?

I often have trouble punishing people getups myself. Granted, I've been practicing legetrumping myself, but it would be nice to know how to deal with a ledge opponent instead of getting punished for your ledge getups everytime but they escaped just like that when you finally got them.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

What would you guys do while people are hanging on the ledge?

I often have trouble punishing people getups myself. Granted, I've been practicing legetrumping myself, but it would be nice to know how to deal with a ledge opponent instead of getting punished for your ledge getups everytime but they escaped just like that when you finally got them.

I usually don't do anything fancy. My standard option is the standard get up. I'll do that mainly while mixing it up slightly until I see my opponent is looking for that. Then I'll proceed to do other options (jump, roll). If the person is charging a smash attack or is just too close then I'll getup attack. I don't often release ledge then get on stage with a double jump -> attack because I find it risky with Luigi's slow air speed. Being knocked off stage without a jump can be a dead Luigi.

Now if you're talking about the opponent being on the ledge, I usually stand about a character's length away. From there I can defend a ledge attack on reaction, run in and grab and getup, or pivot grab/up smash a roll. Of course you won't be able to choose the correct option every time but it puts you in a great situation to react. I find ledge hopping to be a little more difficult to punish without a read. For people who ledge getup every time, you can use Nair or Cyclone to get free damage.



How do you guys practice? I feel like I've sorta "mastered" Luigi. I'm aware of all his options and movement. I can jumpless cyclone very well. I feel like I know everything about the character. But I am still not a top player even in my region. Any thing I could be working on to get me to that next level?

 

[Astro !=]

Thanks for your reply.

What is FH? I understand that SH goes for Short Hop but FH?

What do you mean by that: "the c stick will either cancel or override the control stick"

I think that i will practice more with the c-stick because i can't execute some specific moves simultaneously, like moving back + Bair. Just like what you said...

Sorry for the super late reply, I've been busy. FH was answered, I'll just add some specifics. When you press jump, your character enters something called "jump squat." It's the animation where they kinda bend down a bit to get the strength to launch themselves upward. IIRC, Luigi has 5 frames of jump squat (maybe 4), so it takes him 5 frames to leave the ground. If you're holding jump when jump squat ends, you'll do a full hop (the taller one), but if you hold for 5 frames or less then you'll short hop.

Let's say I'm playing as Luigi. Luigi is airborne facing right with no momentum. If I hold left on the control stick (grey one) and right on the c-stick, Luigi will execute a fair but he won't go anywhere horizontally, he'll just fall. As soon as I release the c stick, he'll start moving left. This is because the c stick is still inputting a direction, even though it only input A for 1 frame. In every other smash game, the c stick inputs A for one frame and a direction for 1 frame, but in smash 4 the c stick inputs the direction until you release it (that's why you can charge smash attacks with the c stick). Changing your c stick to "Attack" in the controls menu reverts its behavior to previous games, but you can't use it to smash attack anymore.

I made myself use the c stick for every aerial for a month or so just to learn how. It definitely helped my game.

How do you guys practice? I feel like I've sorta "mastered" Luigi. I'm aware of all his options and movement. I can jumpless cyclone very well. I feel like I know everything about the character. But I am still not a top player even in my region. Any thing I could be working on to get me to that next level?

You probably have, tech skill in this game is trivial. When RARing is one of the hardest techs, you know the game's easy (from a technical standpoint).

Knowledge is very important, you need to know exactly what beats what in every situation.

Otherwise, work on your mind games. Watch Ally and analyze his play (it takes me ~15 mins to fully go through a ~4 minute game). He's the king of mind games imo, smartest player in smash.

When you practice (i.e. every thing but tournament matches) go for weird stuff. Stuff you don't think should work, like d-throw -> downsmash on fox (I've hit both hits of d smash with that string before). Try the jankiest **** you can think of, and eventually you'll find some super situational stuff.

 

[Wtfwasthat]

What recoveries does the jumpless cyclone gimp well? I know it outprioritizes fox and falco's up b

 

[Ndzablou]

What recoveries does the jumpless cyclone gimp well? I know it outprioritizes fox and falco's up b

Usually it will gimp anyone who doesn't have invincibility on their up b, on some recoveries it might trade, with Luigi being sent up and the opponent being sent straight down making it hard to recover anyways.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

To all Luigi mains, we at the Pit boards are discussing the Luigi matchup(with our new MU thread), and we'd like it if you joined is and leave your inputs/opinions.

http://smashboards.com/threads/pit-...r-of-the-mario-plumbers.414936/#post-19990283