This is my power... but what is my purpose? ~ Mewtwo Social Thread

[Winston]

I mean, it doesn't have to be any one of you specifically, but it would be preferred that somebody makes it who has a comprehensive understanding of MUs, frame data, priority, etc. It would very much help out Melee beginners like me, lulz.

I don't think you need a guide really if you are a beginner. The detailed information that can be explained in text form is like matchup knowledge and perhaps situational tricks/ways to react to options. That kind of stuff would be for later on, after you are comfortable with the basic movement of your character and have at least some experience playing against reasonably skilled opponents.

If I've misinterpreted your use of the word "beginner" and you are already at that level then my apologies, but that's my view on how you really go about learning how to play melee.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I agree with gustav

you got this vman, whatever you decide to do. to set out to be a new age pioneer, nothing wrong with that.

@chivalruse-links? lol.

 

[Steelia]

@chivalruse-links? lol.

1
2
2.5 or something
3


Still does a way better wavedash than I could pull off, LOL.

 

[NH Cody]

You're joking, right? You've obviously never played competitive melee in your life. Blocking....jesus christ....blocking and shield grabbing, is not going to win you matches with one of the worst in the game against the best in the game.

Apparently the joke is on me.

Do you not understand simple gameplay? Mewtwo, or any character for that matter, no matter how "awful," can shield an approaching attack, then grab. If you predict a grab, then use your options to deal with it. (sidestep, jump, aerial, roll, etc.) How on Earth can you call yourself an experienced Melee player if you don't even know you're supposed to predict and punish incoming attacks?

I don't even know why I'm still having this conversation.

I don't know either, since you clearly have no idea how to validate a point.

My advice: Go play some people who are actually good for a change, somebody with actual skill, and reality will hit you like a ton of bricks. Against good people, shield grabbing does not work, and in fact is your downfall many times. Good players know how to bait a shieldgrab and then punish. And because their character is much better then yours is, they can do it much more easily and better then you can.

Obviously you wouldn't be so predictable such that your opponent would pick up on when you would shieldgrab. Why would you even be playing with a terrible character if you never figured out you had to put in extra effort to stay unpredictable? The solution is quite simple. My advice: Learn how to mix it up. No wonder you lose with Mewtwo.

Why? Why are you certain of this?

Because he can attack, lol. It's not rocket science. Even if there is a need to know how to read your opponent very well, it's possible.

What makes you certain of this?

The plain and simple fact that Mewtwo can deal damage just like everybody else. Therefore, he can win.

You just THINK it'll work? You have "faith" lol?

No, I have "common sense" lol

You've seen a couple Taj vids on youtube and you think it can work for everyone else (and more)?

If you think that winning like Taj did (and does) is virtually impossible for all the other Mewtwo players then you ought to get your head checked. Last time I checked, Taj was human just like all the rest of us. He didn't get good by having Mewtwo come out of the television and bestowing magical Melee powers into him. He got good by experience.

Go try using mewtwo COMPETITIVELY. Key word: COMPETITIVELY. Not against your friends, not against your little brother, against some melee nerd who knows how to shield pressure, punish, space, mindgame, and basically destroy anyone who should get destroyed, IE mewtwo.

I will. On July 10th. And I don't have a little brother.

What I meant/said was only a few players can make the character appear viable, but most cannot even hold their own. Taj, Vman, Iori, etc are good enough to hold their own on the competitive scene (but not to win a major tournament with mewtwo, mind you), but they're 3 out of how many players? And, on top of that, how many times has Taj or any other mewtwo main won a major national tourney with mewtwo? There's a reason Taj has mained Marth, Fox, Sheik, etc because mewtwo can't and won't win at a high level in competitive tournament play.

I wil break it down so you can understand.

-Mewtwo is worse than the other characters and harder to learn.
-We as Mewtwo players need more time to master the character and do well with him in competitive play.
-At the beginning, Taj, Iori and Vman didn't go to their first tournaments and come out with 1st place. They had to spend more time going to tourneys to improve with the character.

So the rest of the Mewtwo players need to get as much experience as the better players, and then they will improve to that level if they have been given advice, analyzed the matchups, etc. Then, in time, there will be more well-known players who do well in tourneys. Of course this is under the assumption that we put in a lot more effort than the other players with their characters, and our boards are the most efficient. =/

1. The "just because Taj can do it that means I can" argument is seriously flawed. Taj is like 8000x better then you'll ever be lol, I guarantee it.

Do you not comprehend simple logic? If one practices, one will improve. And I can get as good as I want, as long as I persevere. It has been done before, so it can be done for me.

I am going to get somewhere with Mewtwo JUST to show you how wrong you are. I am going to win something big one day, just to come back to this board and LAUGH at you.

He doesn't even win with mewtwo all the time against good players, and if he's the best there is then what hope do you have?

Because he is (hopefully) still working on improving, and if he does so more effectively than the other players (as we have discussed) then he will be able to succeed. As will I.

The worse your character, the worse your character's chances are of winning. I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

FOOL.

That has to be the final ignorant claim that has diminished your credibility in my regard.

The player's will to practice and his/her capacity to improve has zero correlation to the abilities of the character.

As I've said numerous times, I shouldn't have to explain this to you. Honestly, you're speaking from Naivety. There's no other way of putting it. I used to think the same way BEFORE I started really playing competitively. I used to think that if I was good enough I could make the character win, but then I quickly figured out, "no, that's not going to happen".
Here's what I am telling you to do: go play your mewtwo competitively, and after you've been destroyed enough times, come back and tell me just how good mewtwo can be, ok? Don't just listen to me, listen to REALITY. Let REALITY hit you in the face with a chain of disjointed hitboxed-fairs until you finally understand just how hopeless it is.

Redundant. You won't justify a cause by repetition.

But anyway, I will reiterate and say I will indeed prove you wrong, as my words to you seem ineffective. Not tomorrow, not the next day, but in time. No matter how much evidence is presented to you, I do not believe you will understand through words.

I have put alot of time and effort into learning mewtwo, enough to the point where I can actually sort of hold my own in a competitive match. It took me a ****-load of time to be able to do that, and, despite mewtwo being my best character, I will never win a major tournament, because it's just not going to happen. Mewtwo is that **** bad. I'm repeating myself now, but just go play somebody who's good and you'll discover how bad he really is.

So basically, your own pessimism stems from your inability to succeed. My "optimism" is not a "delusion" but an effort to get somewhere with a fun, yet difficult character. If you put in the necessary time and effort to get somewhere, you will succeed like Taj and the others you listed have. If you approach a tourney with a mindset such as "I can't win with this character, there is no hope. This is ridiculous." then you will fail and your anxieties will be fulfilled. Do you think the better players go into a tournament with such a terrible attitude? You have to believe you can win to actually do it.

I wouldn't say he's delusional or naive, but he's definitely optimistic. Whether it's misplaced or not is irrelevant, he can believe in the potential of the character he likes as much as he wants. ICG seems to believe in Pichu, even though there is absolutely no reason to, and I would disagree on a lot of things he argues for, he has every right to with even less of a foothold than Toony has for thinking Mewtwo can be played based on the performances of a few good players. National tourney winners, or not. I've proven that Mewtwo can be played at high level tournaments, just don't count on Mewtwo winning a national tournament exclusively.

I don't know if he has better reaction time, intuition, or awareness than me, but even if he doesn't, with practice and dedication I see no reason why he at the very least can't **** on baddies with Mewtwo like I've done my entire smash career.

From the other perspective, Toony, if you're genuinely looking to improve as a player, there is nothing wrong with picking Mewtwo, but in tournaments it would be wise to consider picking characters with more margin for error until you've reached an optimum comfort level taking a bottom tier through the tourney. It took me a long time to do even do that much, myself.

Thank you Taj, I'm glad you agree with the general idea of what I've said. Or at least I think you do from how I interpreted your words...

Looking forward to meeting you at Apex, and I'll wish you luck when the time is closer (I'm still excited, but I'm going primarily for brawl, lulz).

aha! Sdc is bitter lol.

is toony brand new to melee? sounds like a long hard road ahead of him.

Well, not entirely new, but in terms of tournaments I will be going to my first one in 9 days.

The road of improvement might be a long road, but it's a road I will drive down with a nitro-booster while many others are casually strolling at the minimum speed limit. ;D

 

[KAOSTAR]

mewtwo only has a good shield grab if they land behind you.

I feel more like toony, but I know where sdc is coming from. toony will soon realize m2 just isn't on par with the high tiers

 

[SDC]

I don't think you're trolling me, I think you're really this naive. I will try to refrain from becoming emotional in my response.

Apparently the joke is on me.

Do you not understand simple gameplay? Mewtwo, or any character for that matter, no matter how "awful," can shield an approaching attack, then grab. If you predict a grab, then use your options to deal with it. (sidestep, jump, aerial, roll, etc.) How on Earth can you call yourself an experienced Melee player if you don't even know you're supposed to predict and punish incoming attacks?I don't know either, since you clearly have no idea how to validate a point.

First of all, you have to understand the fact that I have far more experience then you do. You haven't even gone to a tournament yet. You really don't know what you're talking about. Shieldgrabbing is not going to get you anywhere against a good player. It's not, I'm sorry, it's not. You have to do far more then that if you want to win. You talk to me about "simple gameplay" and "predicting and punishing attacks" but you obviously have no idea what those are, nor do you even know how to do them, you haven't even gone to a tournament yet.

The problem with you is, you're speaking from severe ignorance, and naivety (Yes Taj, he is naive), but you have stubborn confidence in your mistaken position. Because of this, when you say things like "you don't know how to validate a point", "do you understand simple gameplay", and "How on Earth can you call yourself an experienced Melee player if you don't even know you're supposed to predict and punish incoming attacks?", you become more then just a minor annoyance. You become aggravating, frustrating, you have gone beyond "obnoxious" and you are now "infuriating", and "repugnant".
One of the reasons why you're so obnoxious is that you think you know what you're talking about, and you claim things as true that are just plainly false. I will address more of your mistakes in a minute.

Obviously you wouldn't be so predictable such that your opponent would pick up on when you would shieldgrab. Why would you even be playing with a terrible character if you never figured out you had to put in extra effort to stay unpredictable? The solution is quite simple. My advice: Learn how to mix it up. No wonder you lose with Mewtwo.

Your ignorance continues.
"Obviously you wouldn't be so predictable such that your opponent would pick up on when you would shieldgrab."
Good opponents always expect you to shield grab, or react out of shield, or dodge. This is why they space attacks, have a followup ready, and are planning on you doing one of the three, and will know how to respond when you do so. There is no simple "mix it up". There are only so many things you can do in a given situation, and with Mewtwo your options are limited usually to either: shieldgrab, nair oos, dodge, and teleport. Granted, mewtwo's shieldgame is better then some, but his weaknesses still curse him here: he is slow, has an enormous hurtbox, laggy, bounces up when hit so they can continue attacks, and slides backwards as they attack you, so it's fairly easy for them to pressure you.

When you say things like "my advice" and then follow it up with some basic and really obvious thing that I've already known and done, you are quite annoying.

The reason you will lose with mewtwo, as you will soon find out, is not necessarily some failure of the player, but the characters involved as well. Believe it or not, the characters matter in a match. In fact, the characters matter quite a bit, I will touch on that in a minute.

Because he can attack, lol. It's not rocket science. Even if there is a need to know how to read your opponent very well, it's possible.

Now the concept you're not quite understanding is the fact that better characters can attack too, only, they can attack BETTER then you can. In fact, they can attack MUCH better then you can.

When you say "Even if there is a need to know how to read your opponent very well, it's possible" you ignore the simple fact that your opponent reads you as well, and has many more options and weapons at his disposal with these reads.

The continual problem with your statements is that you completely disregard the opposing player and their character, unfortunately, matchups, tiers, players, characters, counterpicks, playstyles, mindgames, reads, etc, are all things that DO matter, and they are all things that your opponent will be superior to you in, when you use mewtwo.

No, I have "common sense" lol

You have naivety and lack of experience. Hopefully that changes on July 10th. Doubt it though, you seem like the stubborn type. I am too. It took me a while to accept the reality of just how bad mewtwo is at the high level of play.

If you think that winning like Taj did (and does) is virtually impossible for all the other Mewtwo players then you ought to get your head checked. Last time I checked, Taj was human just like all the rest of us. He didn't get good by having Mewtwo come out of the television and bestowing magical Melee powers into him. He got good by experience.

First, (my smash history is quite rusty, if I'm mistaken on any of this, please correct me) back in 2004, Taj won with mewtwo because nobody knew how to respond to him. Nobody knew how a good mewtwo played. They didn't exactly know how to exploit the weaknesses that, when realized, make him a very improbably successful character at the high level. Yes Taj was good, but they didn't exactly know what to expect, they weren't prepared. Now that people know more what to expect, mewtwo's surprise factor is gone.

When they did start figuring things out, Taj switched to fox/marth/sheik/other high/top tier characters. Taj mained marth for a long time. There's a reason why Taj uses marth. Marth, as a character offers far more probability of success due to his high quality attributes. Mewtwo, due to his glaring weaknesses, does not.

Second, Taj IS better then you. You can be optimistic, you can be hopeful, and that's all good and well, but Taj IS fundamentally better then you. I can make this claim with confidence because Taj is fundamentally better then most players in competitive smash. Yes his national results have been dismal as of late, but that is because he has been on a sort of, hiatus, if you will.
The probability of you acquiring the ability and skillset that he has acquired and possesses is very small. Of course it's possible that you're some sort of undiscovered smash-god with unworldly untapped potential, but that's extremely unlikely. It's improbable. It's so improbable, in fact, that I can say with confidence that Taj IS better then you, and, most likely, always will be.

I will. On July 10th. And I don't have a little brother.

Honestly, you're going to be crushed. For 3 reasons:

1. Nervousness. You're going to be quite nervous, that's expected, it's your first tournament, most people are.
2. You have no competitive experience at all. This alone will cause you to lose most of your matches, period.
3. You're using a character with poor options that are severely limited, and one that possesses severe weaknesses. This alone will cause you to lose many close matches.

I wil break it down so you can understand.

Once again, your empty condescension is...obnoxious. I'd advise you to avoid doing so in the future, if you value the respect of those with more experience than you.

-Mewtwo is worse than the other characters and harder to learn.

True. I would add that he has far fewer options then most other characters in the game, he has extremely hampering weaknesses that can tend to cripple you when your opponent learns to exploit them, and due to these shortcomings, he has significantly decreased chances of winning the match.

-We as Mewtwo players need more time to master the character

True.

and do well with him in competitive play.

Not exactly true. With a character as bad as mewtwo, there isn't really any "do well in competitive play". You can hold your own, you can survive, you can even win many games, if you are skilled enough, like Taj, but you won't finish very highly. A top five finish, for instance, would be....nearly impossible for a mewtwo. This is not opinion, this is reality.

-At the beginning, Taj, Iori and Vman didn't go to their first tournaments and come out with 1st place. They had to spend more time going to tourneys to improve with the character.

I remember Taj telling me about his smash history in detail, however it was very late when we spoke (about 4am or so), and so unfortunately I can't quite remember what he said. However, to the best of my knowledge, Taj has never won a major national tournament with mewtwo, in fact, nobody has. The chances of that happening are so low, that they are nearly impossible..

Taj, if I'm mistaken, please correct me.

So the rest of the Mewtwo players need to get as much experience as the better players, and then they will improve to that level if they have been given advice, analyzed the matchups, etc. Then, in time, there will be more well-known players who do well in tourneys. Of course this is under the assumption that we put in a lot more effort than the other players with their characters, and our boards are the most efficient.

Once again, you make the mistake of disregarding the fact that your opponent uses far better characters than you do, and thus has far more options, tools, weapons, and strengths to employ. The player base can be extremely strong, but if the opposing side (say, sheik players) are equally strong, the mewtwo players will lose the majority of the matches, as quality of characters plays a significant role in a match with two players of equal skill.

Do you not comprehend simple logic? If one practices, one will improve. And I can get as good as I want, as long as I persevere. It has been done before, so it can be done for me.

I've already discussed the fact that condescending to somebody when you have less experience than them, and are mistaken, is quite obnoxious.

Here's another concept that you are not understanding: "probablity and possibility". When somebody says "mewtwo is impossible to win at a high level", we don't actually mean it is "impossible", but that it is extremely, ridiculously, improbable. Saying "it's impossible" is a logical shortcut. When something is so improbable, it becomes "nearly impossible". It is shorter, and more emotionally powerful, to say "impossible", which is why many do so. However, if you press me, I would agree that it is "possible", but not "probable". A mewtwo player winning APEX is in fact so improbable, that we might as well say "it's nearly impossible". When we recognize this, we accept that it most likely will not happen. Which is the realistic attitude.

I am going to get somewhere with Mewtwo JUST to show you how wrong you are. I am going to win something big one day, just to come back to this board and LAUGH at you.

You will try, You will fail, and I will be understanding. I will not mock you, despite how easy and deserving it would be, considering what you've said to me in this post.

Because he is (hopefully) still working on improving, and if he does so more effectively than the other players (as we have discussed) then he will be able to succeed. As will I.

I do hope Taj is practicing, he's going to need it when he goes to APEX. I hope you've been practicing, you're going to need it on July 10th.

FOOL.

That has to be the final ignorant claim that has diminished your credibility in my regard.

The player's will to practice and his/her capacity to improve has zero correlation to the abilities of the character.

It is this section right here that completely validates my claims of your naivety. You completely disregard characters in a match, thinking of only a player, that one can simply whim himself to victory in the midst of insurmountable odds, then yes, you are naive. There is no other way of describing you, it is the accurate, correct, valid description.

You have no tournament experience, and yet you claim that characters do not matter in a match. You will soon discover firsthand that you are wrong.

Not only that, but that last statement was poorly worded. You should have instead said "The quality, attributes, and characteristics of a character have no effect on the success a player will have, if he/she has practiced enough."
That statement is, as I have just pointed out, still incorrect.

Redundant. You won't justify a cause by repetition.

But anyway, I will reiterate and say I will indeed prove you wrong, as my words to you seem ineffective. Not tomorrow, not the next day, but in time. No matter how much evidence is presented to you, I do not believe you will understand through words.

When dealing with the naive, repeating factual statements is sometimes effective in hammering in reality. Unfortunately, that is not always so.

You have not presented ANY evidence, but instead, bald, empty, inexperienced, naive assertions, assertions that are easily refutable through experience, which you will soon have.

So basically, your own pessimism stems from your inability to succeed. My "optimism" is not a "delusion" but an effort to get somewhere with a fun, yet difficult character. If you put in the necessary time and effort to get somewhere, you will succeed like Taj and the others you listed have. If you approach a tourney with a mindset such as "I can't win with this character, there is no hope. This is ridiculous." then you will fail and your anxieties will be fulfilled. Do you think the better players go into a tournament with such a terrible attitude? You have to believe you can win to actually do it.

No. My recognition, understanding, and acceptance of reality provides me with a more honest, realistic attitude of using mewtwo competitively.

I wouldn't say you're delusional, I'd say you're naive. But I've already said that multiple times, so I won't waste anymore time on that fact.

Yes confidence is important, but whim cannot mold reality. Unfortunately for you, the fact of the matter is: winning consistently with mewtwo at a high level of play is extremely improbable.. You must always believe and understand that it is possible, but when you lose, you must also understand the reality of how and why you lost.

Thank you Taj, I'm glad you agree with the general idea of what I've said. Or at least I think you do from how I interpreted your words...

Taj is being...nice. Taj is one of the nicest, most courteous, amiable people I know. I'm not ***-kissing, I'm completely serious. But he will not coddle you, after some of these more recent statements from you I hope he agrees with my assessment that you're naive, if not then he's unfortunately denying the obvious implication of your words.

Looking forward to meeting you at Apex, and I'll wish you luck when the time is closer (I'm still excited, but I'm going primarily for brawl, lulz).

Honestly, that explains a lot. A brawl player who thinks he knows about the world of competitive melee. Good luck, you're going to need it.

Well, not entirely new, but in terms of tournaments I will be going to my first one in 9 days.

I would call that, competitively speaking, new, yes.

The road of improvement might be a long road, but it's a road I will drive down with a nitro-booster while many others are casually strolling at the minimum speed limit. ;D

Your naive, humorous little metaphor about future success will hopefully be put in severe doubt when you do go to your first tournament on July 10th. Doubt is healthy. Doubt is realistic. Doubt can help you recognize flaws, mistakes, and errors you have made, and can encourage you to fix them. Yes, confidence is key, but, do not think that your whim can change reality, it won't, and you can't.

In summary, I wish you the best of luck. I play mewtwo because he's always been my favorite pokemon, I like the fact that he's psychic, I like the way he looks, sounds, (I even like his backstory, which is surprisingly intelligent and intriguing for a children's manga), everything about him is appealing. I play him because I like him. But, I also like winning, which is why I practice good characters as well.

I don't want to destroy your confidence, I just want you to be realistic in your aspiration. You are up for a major disappointment when you go to your first tournament on July 10th. I am trying to...lessen the blow. I suspect you have atleast moderately sufficient intelligence, eventually you will recognize and accept reality, but it will take time. You seem like the stubborn type. You're a believer. You believe, and who cares if anyone thinks you're wrong. I was/is the same way. Now, however, I understand that recognizing and accepting reality, and having optimistic, but realistic expectations, is always the best approach, the most rewarding attitude. Hope, strive, and try to do the very best you can do, but when you fail, understand how and why it happened, and don't let it discourage you. A saying I always like is "Expect the best, but be prepared for the worst" (btw Taj that's from an Xzibit song, which I'll link you to if you want ).

When you try, and you fail, I won't mock you. I promise.

 

[L/A/W]

i think that last quote is from more than an Xzibit sing lol

 

[V3ctorMan]

Yoshi is the business son!!! Get @ me...... ^^

......oh yeah and mewtwo's cool too.. =)

EDIT - @ SDC - I appreciate what your at least trying to make him understand...which to me sounds in short...Mewtwo is highly doubtful, to ever make national tourney results...This has never happened, so it would make sense to even call it impossible...However, the kid's got heart, something I'll admire about any player(s)... Maybe not exactly a "trait" that matters to most people, and heart sadly won't get the wins... but I like his mindset and respect it very much...

Whether or not he wins/loses, he seems to respect the fact of whatever results happen, will happen.. even with all that in mind.. He "refuses" to give up confidence.. and IMHO I wish "more" of us had that ability...I had this exact same mentality when I was training and teaching Pikachu phenom "Axe" and when he began doubting his character.. etc.. it was me bringing his confidence right back up... Sure I admit, it was a long shot.. you can even search "old threads" I got so much crap from people saying comments such as "your corrupting him vman" "pikachu sucks"" tell him to drop pika and play Falco" the comments go on, and on, but that never stopped or even phased me from guiding Axe in any other direction... I've always believed, the "Anything is possible theory" and I most likely always will... whether it gives me good/bad results, it won't hinder me from trying..(even if I never get there) =/ I guess I'm just that stubborn...

However, it's not completely my fault I'm like this... I've mentored/trained/watched.. "Axe" for most of my smash career...and has been my best friend for a very long time now. I remember when I was teachin him things because I was better than he was, just to watch him become who he is today.. which I believe is "undeniably" the Best Low tier Main in the World" right now... IMO people look up to "Axe" since he's most likely one of the "few" players who can do what he does with Pikachu...This gives other players hopes/dreams of maybe their 'bottom/low tier character, possibly being able to pull something off like Axe has... Whether or not they get there or not.. I believe that's their decision to decide that, and I'm sure he knows of consequences etc...but I still don't think that will stop him...

It never stopped Taj's Mewtwo (yes even though he's never placed at a national etc.) but it's noticable enough... to make a statement... It hasn't stopped my Mewtwo/Yoshi, and it's not going to.. (even if I NEVER place ANYWHERE, EVER, fact is, it's not going to ruin my drive/motive.. and Toony most likely has the same mindset I have...and lastly... Axe...(he's the closest thing we've ever seen' in terms of low tier placing exceptionally high at nationals).. He's had amazing sets with M2k, Mango, Armada, SS, Zhu, HugS, Hax, Scar, Jman, DrPP.. the list goes on, and on...and he's played all of those players exceptionally well...and MOST of those mentioned players are what considered the...Top 10 (general area) players in the world are....

I guess Axe was like that 1% chance person while most of us are the ladder...=/ but even with that said..that shouldn't stop his drive/motive...Players like Axe, Taj, many others. IMO, is a good way for other players to believe in their characters.. I hopefully would like to add my name to that list sometime...but that's my choice... ability and drive that will determine that...and a good first step is to at least "believe it's possible" even if you sadly NEVER achieve it, I'd rather have made an attempt, than to doubt my own abilities... =)

So yeah that's all for me...

Just for Taj.. -----> Vman's Yoshi >>> Taj's Mewtwo... GET AT ME SON!!

Just For Axe. -----> Vman's Yoshi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Axe's Pikachu! <33 you Axe <33

 

[SDC]

i think that last quote is from more than an Xzibit sing lol

That's where I heard it from lol. xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgk7wraudgc

Great song.

 

[KAOSTAR]

that quote is definitely from more than x to the z.

this isn't national but Iori did win a regional with nearly all m2. he even beat Dark rain in pools. im not going to speak on the matches them selves, im just saying no johns he did it.

@sdc-with all you have said you would think you would just let him fail. unless he is a G and makes all his early failures a positive. such as "getting the hang of things". feeling the way you do, I would think you would allow him the first hand experience that we all had.

@toony-can you wave dash lol? or dj-c, shffl, and do you play anyone else.

 

[SDC]

@sdc-with all you have said you would think you would just let him fail. unless he is a G and makes all his early failures a positive. such as "getting the hang of things". feeling the way you do, I would think you would allow him the first hand experience that we all had.

Kaos I honestly don't understand what you're saying, could you reword this lol? It's like 4am for me right now. xD

 

[KAOSTAR]

metaphorically its like stealing christmas by denouncing the existence of santa clause. as naive children we believe a ridiculous story about fat ppl in small spaces, ****** slavery, and flying reindeers.

we know how it is, but you were allowed to believe what you wanted. you said he will soon find out-just leave it at that.

the he is a G thing was basically just putting a positive spin on his failures as I did. my first week of comp smash I was told m2 was the worst when I thought he was the best (you unlocked him late in the game by vs mode, g&w was a joke character tho). ive refused to believe that and im pretty sure he will be bottom of low tier.

@everyone check MU thread for my post on it.

 

[NH Cody]

@toony-can you wave dash lol? or dj-c, shffl, and do you play anyone else.

Yes, yes, yes, and...occasionally, but after I go to my first tournament I think I'll be meeting some players who live near me and will play me more often.

But I don't get nervous, and I'm not expecting to win my first tourney. I might even go Marth and just use Mewtwo in friendlies.

 

[KAOSTAR]

you wouldn't know if tourney makes you nervous, you haven't been yet.

 

[NH Cody]

I do not possess the "nervous" emotion.

 

[SDC]

metaphorically its like stealing christmas by denouncing the existence of santa clause. as naive children we believe a ridiculous story about fat ppl in small spaces, ****** slavery, and flying reindeers.

we know how it is, but you were allowed to believe what you wanted. you said he will soon find out-just leave it at that.

the he is a G thing was basically just putting a positive spin on his failures as I did. my first week of comp smash I was told m2 was the worst when I thought he was the best (you unlocked him late in the game by vs mode, g&w was a joke character tho). ive refused to believe that and im pretty sure he will be bottom of low tier.

@everyone check MU thread for my post on it.

Dude I STILL don't know what you're saying lol, maybe I haven't read the thread you're speaking about, so I don't have it in context, or something. Are you talking about how mewtwo as a character was disappointing in melee?

I don't get nervous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWqIiCnCA-w

 

[Taj278]

He's basically saying that you're attempting to break his confidence for no reason. Kids will discover that Santa doesn't exist on their own, there is no reason to ruin the fun. He will likely discover on his own whether Mewtwo is worth attempting to main or not, but there is no reason to sternly tell him to give up based on your own personal discoveries.

I can see why you wanted to present him as many facts as you could. It's like almost driving off a cliff and warning someone following right behind you that there's a cliff up ahead. But Toony's decision to play and main Mewtwo is completely harmless. You were very disappointed when you came to your final conclusions about playing Mewtwo, but he seems like he's someone that will play Mewtwo different goals in mind in comparison to yours. If that makes sense.

 

[SDC]

He's basically saying that you're attempting to break his confidence for no reason. Kids will discover that Santa doesn't exist on their own, there is no reason to ruin the fun. He will likely discover on his own whether Mewtwo is worth attempting to main or not, but there is no reason to sternly tell him to give up based on your own personal discoveries.

I can see why you wanted to present him as many facts as you could. It's like almost driving off a cliff and warning someone following right behind you that there's a cliff up ahead. But Toony's decision to play and main Mewtwo is completely harmless. You were very disappointed when you came to your final conclusions about playing Mewtwo, but he seems like he's someone that will play Mewtwo different goals in mind in comparison to yours. If that makes sense.

I think you misunderstood what my last lengthy reply to him was about. It was not to "break his confidence", no, in fact I said he should have confidence, he'll need it to succeed, but instead I said he should have more realistic expectations and aspirations. If he thinks he can go win national tournaments with mewtwo, he is most likely sadly mistaken. I was not trying to "break his spirit", but rather to advise him that he should have more realistic expectations when attempting to use mewtwo.

 

[AXE 09]

I know I'm coming in here pretty late, but I've been reading these past few pages for this thread.

That's a good and bad comparison. It works on the level of "switching to a top tier character because you want to win", but it also doesn't work because MK is substantially more broken then marth, or anyone else in melee. MK is god of brawl, no discussion. Marth, or anybody else in the top tier, have their counterpicks and weaknesses, they are not indestructible. (Yes some might try to make the argument that sheik is god of melee, but if that were true then tournament results would match those of MK in brawl, and they obviously don't.) Picking one of them up is not "taking the easy way out" but instead dramatically improving your chances of success, and fun. Winning is fun, and honestly, using a high/top tier character is quite fun. Switching to MK would be taking the easy way out, while switching to Marth would be like picking up a legitimate competitive character.



Because relying solely on one character is unwise because:
1. It might cause some of your play to become stale. I learned alot about spacing, and how to do it appropriately, when I finally picked up Jiggz and Ganon. If you only use mewtwo, your abilities and skillset might stagnate, derailing your improvement.
2. It will completely hinder you in competitive play. In competitive play, when somebody sees you pick up mewtwo, they will probably select one of his absolute worst matchups (Marth, Ganon, Sheik, or Captain Falcon). In this scenario, it will be good to have a good counterpick to any one of those characters, you would want to be skilled with either, say, Jigglypuff, Sheik, or Fox, in order to counter the opponent's character that destroys Mewtwo.
3. Picking up a high/top tier is fun. Using a good character is just plain fun, it's like finding a really good weapon in some shooting game and just blowing away your opponents, it's just really **** fun.



No. Honestly, that will never happen. Mewtwo is THAT bad. Mewtwo will never be a LEGITIMATE threat to anyone who knows the matchup and how to exploit mewtwo's many, glaring, if not immediately subtle, weaknesses.
If anyone actually has ever played a good mewtwo, and knows what to look for, and how to respond appropriately, your chances of winning are pathetically low. It's for this reason that you do want to pick up a high/top tier character: when they figure out your mewtwo's tricks, you better have a legitimate response.

You have GOT to be kidding me. You fail to understand that pretty much all of the characters in this game (Mewtwo included) can be used competitively at a high professional level. It's your mindset that's the reason why more players like Vman/Taj/Iori don't exist. If I had your mindset, I would never be at the level I am at now. Pikachu has been MUCH more fun to play as than any other high tier I've played (and yes, I do have solid high tiers and have played them for very long periods of time). The tier list is not the answer to everything. The thing that matters most is the player's skill level, and the character he chooses to play with does not have as great of an impact as you think.

You need to get it in your head that tiers do not mean as much as you think they do.

As I said, I don't want to seem condescending, but I went through this exact same phase when I first got into the competitive scene: I thought if I was good enough I could do it, I thought I could make the character good, I thought I could "do the impossible". But when I actually started to play, I realized....no that's not gonna happen.

There were many times where I started to have this mindset as I was playing Pikachu in the past. The reason why you believe that tiers mean so much is because you were never strong enough to get past this mindset. Over time, I eventually decided to push myself to go even further with Pikachu and try to erase this thought. It was very hard, but I became successful. Look at where I am now. I am still getting better with Pikachu every day, and I believe that I will become one of the top 5 players in the world one day with Pikachu as my main character. You have to be strong and get past these kinds of mental barriers. I think that if Taj continued playing competitively like he did back in 2007, he would be the best player in the state of AZ right now with Mewtwo (as long as he never got stopped with the mindset that you have).

ToonySonic: Although I can tell you are a new player, the way you think is almost the exact same way I think today. Please keep the mentality that you have right now and never give in to players that will try to shut you down like that. I hope that you become one of the best players in the world one day, and I hope to see you in the future.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Be safe, Axe.

And maybe to get people's minds off this... When playing vs. a fox, at what % does dtit knock them up enough to grab?

 

[StealthyGunnar]

EDIT: srry for double post. stupid bad smashboards gateway

 

[NH Cody]

ToonySonic: Although I can tell you are a new player, the way you think is almost the exact same way I think today. Please keep the mentality that you have right now and never give in to players that will try to shut you down like that. I hope that you become one of the best players in the world one day, and I hope to see you in the future.

Thanks, Axe. =)

My first tourney is on Saturday! I might just go Mewtwo for the whole thing. o:

 

[Shadow Huan]

And maybe to get people's minds off this... When playing vs. a fox, at what % does dtit knock them up enough to grab?

ehh somewhere in the mid 30% range, probably closer to 40% than 30%. i don't have an exact # but I'm sure it's around there somewhere. the tilt-grab is good for about 25% damage or so i think... then they can escape it.

@ Toonylink: don't worry about the negitive mindset that sean...ect. (lol) seems to have... it's just part of his personality and he doesn't mean to come across as mean as he seems to. plus you have people like Taj and Axe defending you so you're okay. good luck going all Mewtwo in the tourny; i'm doing that @ the next next one i go to since most of New England considers me a M2 Main (even though my main is Marth and my Marth is better imo). and not to be negitive... but good luck if you bump into a Falco in tourny...

EDIT: 1,000th post! =D

 

[SDC]

Axe, and Toony, all I have to say is: lol. Defy reality all you want. And Axe, no you won't ever win a major national tournament with pikachu, and you won't become top 5 in the world. It's just.....reality. Sorry dude, I like your pikachu, you're awesome, but it's not gonna happen.

Oh and toony how'd your tournament go by the way?

 

[KAOSTAR]

I believe in you axe.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Axe is the "wrong" person to say those things too...he's already proved more than enough to the world about stuff...and potentially he has the BEST shot over ANYONE to do this.. It'll take lots of hard work, but Axe will do it.. =)

 

[Shadow Huan]

(in a years time Axe wins Pound 6 against Mango using Pikachu) lmao! of course it's possible dude. *points @ Iori.* sure Iori used Sheik against IHSB but seriously M2 vs samus is bull****. i've played the match-up in tourny. it's winnable but REALLY stupid.

about the mindset thing, seriously if you keep saying to yourself that it can't be done THEN IT WON'T BE DONE. the battle is 80% mental. of course you'll get wreaked by human players better than you, but here's the kicker; you can either let that hold you down, or you can let it DRIVE you. not to prove anything to the other players, but to prove it to yourself.

both these are worth watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltqgP-Xgceg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9khDedACgY&feature=related

EDIT: @ seanthedonconsidine you do realize his tourny is on saturday right? >.<

 

[Taj278]

Dude, wtf is that ****. Axe is a brilliant player at the prime age of his cognitive development towards mastery. His Pikachu is definitely capable of reaching the national stage. A top 5 placement is NOT impossible for Axe.

 

[NH Cody]

Thanks for the gl, Shadowball.

Maybe we'll meet at a tourney someday. Which ones are you going to this month/next month?

 

[Shadow Huan]

well toony, that depends on what region you are lol. I've yet to travel out of New England for a tourny and probably never will lol. I have bills to pay hahaha. but if we ever do meet at a tourny I can give you some first hand tips for M2. i'm certainly not the best Mewtwo but @ least i'm known M2 player lol. so yeah if you're in NE that'd be awesome, if not hope you make it to RoM3 or Cataclysm 5 (I'm not going to Apex).

 

[NH Cody]

well toony, that depends on what region you are lol. I've yet to travel out of New England for a tourny and probably never will lol. I have bills to pay hahaha. but if we ever do meet at a tourny I can give you some first hand tips for M2. i'm certainly not the best Mewtwo but @ least i'm known M2 player lol. so yeah if you're in NE that'd be awesome, if not hope you make it to RoM3 or Cataclysm 5 (I'm not going to Apex).

Yeah I live in NE.

When and where is RoM3?

 

[Shadow Huan]

RoM3 is in november in Troy NY. but you're in NE that's great. bet you're from maine lol...

Since that tourny you were talking about is in NE then you must be going to NESLIN... I'm not going to NESLIN had stuff to do today. lots of amazing players will be there good luck.

 

[soju]

Haha am I aloud to triple main with Mewtwo, along with my Jiggs and Pikachu? >w>
Or is that hopeless dreaming from the man who will become the Pokemen master
in melee ;D

 

[NH Cody]

No. The smash Gods will strike you down if you try to main 3 pokemon, get out of here D=<

Spoiler

of course you can main whoever you want to.

...so, I might get to upload videos of me playing Melee one of these days =o

How have the rest of you been?

 

[Steelia]

Mmmmmmm, had better PERSONAL days.
But from the Smashing standpoint, haven't played Melee in a little while... I'm going to be really rusty whenever I do. XD

Life issues taking precedence... Fun, fun.

 

[KAOSTAR]

actually ive been at home playing fox alone. practicing tech skill. some useless stuff along with some useful movement stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

The reason I picked up Mewtwo was that Mewtwo was/is my favorite Pokemon.
I don't care for tech skill, as I don't play on a competitive level, so I played as him regardless of his flaws.

 

[Shadow Huan]

i've been practicing powersheilding and wavedashing out of sheild. always useful

@ Toony: did you meet any of our fellow smashers @ the tourny, almost all of Maine is really really good.

 

[NH Cody]

I live in New Hampshire...

But yeah I met people so I might be able to practice with them.

 

[soju]

lol, three mains = 3 counterpicks >:D fufufu
would do pichu but. . . Pichu is Pichu tier, and he screws with my pika gameplay

well, ive been practicing with mewtwo's teleport against advancing
falcos with lazers, my question is how useful is it to teleport behind a
falco who tries to start the pillar and start bair'ing, I play atm against a
dooky falco and I wonder how well it would work at competitive lvl