Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread

[Lavani]

So I've had a lot of moments recently where I would go for an f-smash punish on landings and it would just whiff completely at point-blank range. From what I can tell you can't angle f-smash so what exactly is the problem here?

It's a combination of the hitboxes being on Greninja's blade and hand, and the period during with the hitboxes are actually active. Which results in a blind spot that looks something like this:

 

[Marilink]

For that reason and also for Knockback Angle reasons, I much prefer Dsmash for punishing landings.

Also, fun fact: If you go U-throw > Uair frequently and your opponent mashes Air Dodge, you can mindgame them and often land Uthrow>Dsmash at low percents for upwards of 30%. They try to airdodge your Uair/Usmash, and fall right into a half- or fully-charged Dsmash.

 

[Funkermonster]

Tips on uaing RAR Bair? I like sing it offstage and on aerial opponents, but I have difficulty landing it onstage on grounded opponents, relying too much on Nair for my approaches.

 

[MartinAW4]

Tips on uaing RAR Bair? I like sing it offstage and on aerial opponents, but I have difficulty landing it onstage on grounded opponents, relying too much on Nair for my approaches.

Short hop and fast fall the Bairs when using them on stage. This will allow you to hit the opponent just with the last hit of Bair which deals only 4% damage, but has good knockback, decent range and comes out very fast, so you can use it to gain better stage control and at low % you can follow it up with a Dash Attack if they don`t tech the landing.

And if you`re not using them yet, SHFF Fairs are also great approaches. They deal the most damage (14%), they can combo into Jab or Dtilt at very low % and they have good range with a disjointed hitbox. They`re a bit more unsafe than SHFF Nair and Bair, so use them in situations when you know you won`t get punished. I really like to use them for punishing projectiles. If you see the opponent launch a projectile, quickly run towards them, short hop over the projectile and fast fall Fair. They won`t be able to dodge or block it because they will still have end lag from the projectile. And thanks to Fair`s range and Greninja`s speed, you can cover around half of FD to punish projectiles.

 

[KingHerpOfDerp]

Found something out on my own. Dtilt > Upsmash between 90% - 120% for a certain kill. Varies from different characters because of weight.

 

[Spirst]

Yep, dtilt>usmash is a combo listed in the combo thread. Can be DI'd but it works at catching people offguard.

 

[Funkermonster]

This might be a question deserving of its own thread, but who do you guys think a good secondary would be for Greninja? My current one is Sonic, and he seems to cover a few bad matchups for me; but I'm also taking a liking to other characters too like , ,, , and . Meta Knight Lucina, Palutena, Ness, Charizard, Bowser Jr., and Yoshi are pretty fun; but I don't think I'll ever be using them when I'm serious (I play way too many characters lol).

I've recently begun to enjoy and (I hated them both at first, at least when fighting against them) too and are looking to stay high tier , but they're more of a last resort character for me in case my current favorites stop working.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

What are some of Greninja's weaknesses? I'm having a tough time finding any as a Luigi main. Low traction keeps me from punishing many things. The only thing that seemed punishable is a blocked Shadow Sneak.

 

[TKOWL]

What are some of Greninja's weaknesses? I'm having a tough time finding any as a Luigi main. Low traction keeps me from punishing many things. The only thing that seemed punishable is a blocked Shadow Sneak.

One of the biggest issues I've had is landing pressure, ever since the update I've had a lot of trouble landing without getting punished, as none of his aerials are really practical for close to the ground except his back air, but that requires back positioning. The added up smash lag has also screwed with me a bit too.

Greninja's lag on some of his moves just seems very odd: sometimes he has instant reactions and sometimes the lag behind his moves makes him extremely punishable.

Yeah, and his counter is terrible too.

 

[Jeronado]

So, Greninja has a really fast walking speed. Just curious if Greninja can make use of this at all? I haven't seen any walking Greninja.

 

[Blaziking17]

Does anyone have a link to a video showing how to do the Uair spike adv tech on Wii U? I was trying to practice doing it with Greninja, and I just want to be sure I'm doing it right.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Does anyone have a link to a video showing how to do the Uair spike adv tech on Wii U? I was trying to practice doing it with Greninja, and I just want to be sure I'm doing it right.

It's nearly impossible now from an update.

 

[Funkermonster]

{Probably a question deserving of its own thread, but what are good stages for Greninja and ones I should strike? Tournament comin' next Saturday:

Stages gonna be used:
Neutrals
-BattleField
-Final Detestation (All Omegas Stages Included)
-Smashville

CounterPicks
-Town and City
-Kongo Jungle 64
-Duck Hunt
-Delfino Plaza
-Skyloft
-Lylat Cruise
-PilotWings
-Castle Siege

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

{Probably a question deserving of its own thread, but what are good stages for Greninja and ones I should strike? Tournament comin' next Saturday:

Stages gonna be used:
Neutrals
-BattleField
-Final Detestation (All Omegas Stages Included)
-Smashville

CounterPicks
-Town and City
-Kongo Jungle 64
-Duck Hunt
-Delfino Plaza
-Skyloft
-Lylat Cruise
-PilotWings
-Castle Siege

I usually try and always strike those stages with stage transitions that have walk offs. So Delfino, Skyloft, and Castle Siege. Duck Hunt has a high ceiling, I think? Considering a lot of our kills are vertical, that's a good thing to strike. Lylat Cruise's ledges are wonky, so I generally hope to avoid that as well.

 

[Marilink]

^Duck Hunt's ceiling isn't as high as it looks. You can still double jump up to it, basically. And the tree on the left is amazing for trapping people into vertical kills. Plus, you can surprise people with wall-cling shenanigans. Duck Hunt is actually one of my favorite stages for Greninja.

I also like Delfino a lot, since the ceiling is generally pretty low and can help with early kills. I would avoid it against Rosa and Diddy, though, since it helps them kill even earlier than you.

Lylat comes down to personal preference, but I'd recommend it. Counterpick to Lylat vs. Diddy, it destroys his recovery.

Honestly, Pilotwings shouldn't be legal at all, so that one is an instaban. Castle Siege has the statues that block Shurikens, so I'd avoid that one, too. I usually strike FD because I like platforms, but I think it is a good pick against Villager, D3, and Pit (read: anyone who can platform camp better than us).

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

^Duck Hunt's ceiling isn't as high as it looks. You can still double jump up to it, basically. And the tree on the left is amazing for trapping people into vertical kills. Plus, you can surprise people with wall-cling shenanigans. Duck Hunt is actually one of my favorite stages for Greninja.

I also like Delfino a lot, since the ceiling is generally pretty low and can help with early kills. I would avoid it against Rosa and Diddy, though, since it helps them kill even earlier than you.

Lylat comes down to personal preference, but I'd recommend it. Counterpick to Lylat vs. Diddy, it destroys his recovery.

Honestly, Pilotwings shouldn't be legal at all, so that one is an instaban. Castle Siege has the statues that block Shurikens, so I'd avoid that one, too. I usually strike FD because I like platforms, but I think it is a good pick against Villager, D3, and Pit (read: anyone who can platform camp better than us).

Ohhh. Very interesting insight. Didn't know that about Duck Hunt.

Maybe I should play around more on Delfino...

 

[Jay-kun]

What is your unique playstyle with Greninja? I would like to know to reflect on my own playstyle and (hope) to make it better.

 

[KERO]

{Probably a question deserving of its own thread, but what are good stages for Greninja and ones I should strike? Tournament comin' next Saturday:

Stages gonna be used:
Neutrals
-BattleField
-Final Detestation (All Omegas Stages Included)
-Smashville

CounterPicks
-Town and City
-Kongo Jungle 64
-Duck Hunt
-Delfino Plaza
-Skyloft
-Lylat Cruise
-PilotWings
-Castle Siege

Strike Battlefield strike Battlefield strike Battlefield.

I honestly believe that it is Greninja's overall worst stage. The haven of platforms reduces his ability to punish landings dramatically, nerfs Usmash even more, makes it hard for Greninja to land, and occasionally the top platform even saves enemies from Uthrow to Uair. It's a terrible, terrible stage for Greninja.

Lylat is terrible for pretty much the same reasons only it also nerfs Shuriken with its tilting. On the other hand, Bair can put the opponent in a bad position under stage, so it's a bit more MU dependent, but if you can't think of a reason the opponent wouldn't go Lylat, then definitely consider banning it. Otherwise, ban Battlefield.

I would say that Kongo Jungle (dat barrel and huge ceiling) and Castle Siege (platforms+statues+that little hump on the third transformation) are also not preferable for Greninja, but they are more tolerable than the other two.

As for good stages, I believe that Town and City and Delfino are two of Greninja's best stages. Town and City gives Greninja a ton of room to run around, the platforms are unbelievably helpful for Uair chasing, and it has a low ceiling. Delfino has a lot of absurdly low ceilings and close side-blast zones which can make Greninja's mid-percent combos deadly (I got a dash attack to Fair kill once at around 50% on the umbrella transformation). Like Town and City, its neutral position platforms can help out with Uair chasing as well. The only things that aren't great for it are some of the awkward lay-outs (the Noki Bay entrance transformation, the one where you're on a building, the super steep slopes island, and the green platforms sticking out of the ocean) and it's smaller than Town and City.

Aside from those two, Smashville and FD are both great stages for Greninja that serve different niches. FD allows more run around room while Smashville is small enough to allow Shuriken to travel across most of the stage.

Wuhu Island and Duck Hunt are also good choices for similar reasons to FD. Wuhu Island is actually large enough to allow Greninja to stall slower characters out entirely. Duck Hunt is also a large stage, but it does have the problem of a high ceiling with close side blast zones.

Those are just my own opinions, though.

 

[FullMoon]

My two stages of choice when playing with Greninja are Wuhu Island and Town and City, mainly the latter as of now. I just tend to do a lot better when playing in them so it's kinda like a good luck charm.

Though I will say that I hate playing on Lylat and Battlefield with Greninja, it's such a pain.

 

[Kite0692]

Actually, platform stages are not as bad as people tend to say. Greninja gets juggled pretty hard, and the platforms kinda help to mix up your recovery. Greninja's best stage IMO would depend A LOT on the matchup, but in general I would say Town and City is his best due to the high platforms (helps you mix up your recovery).

Btw, I'm not 100% about this, but as far as I know, you can't hit a sweetspoted Usmash on battlefield platform (on standing characters), but you can do it on characters that are about to hit the floor of the platform.

 

[MartinAW4]

Actually, platform stages are not as bad as people tend to say. Greninja gets juggled pretty hard, and the platforms kinda help to mix up your recovery. Greninja's best stage IMO would depend A LOT on the matchup, but in general I would say Town and City is his best due to the high platforms (helps you mix up your recovery).

Btw, I'm not 100% about this, but as far as I know, you can't hit a sweetspoted Usmash on battlefield platform (on standing characters), but you can do it on characters that are about to hit the floor of the platform.

You can land a sweetspot Usmash even against opponents standing on the lower Battlefield platforms, but you have to hit them almost perfectly in the center, otherwise only the weak 5% hit will connect. So for some reason it is much easier to land the sweetspot Usmash against characters in the air slightly above the platform.

 

[BlinkIV]

I love Battlefield the most tbh. I think it might be because of my playstyle that involves a lot of "Traps". So keeping enemies above platforms and being able to shark aerials and bait them to drop down really helps in a lot of MU's. A good example is just doing a SH U-air to someones shield when they are above you, and then baiting them to drop down and then punish with an up-tilt to whatever aerial from there.

T&C would probably be my second stage of choice, then skyloft due to apex ruleset.

 

[KERO]

The thing about Greninja's Usmash is that the first hit sends someone downward into the powerful hitbox (100% unnecessary btw. The powerful hitbox is the same length but just comes out later). Unfortunately, this means that characters standing getting hit by the first hitbox are popped up due to Smash 4's new grounded spike mechanics. This applies to literally any time the opponent is standing and is hit by the first hit of Usmash sans when they are at really low percents. Of course, you could try and time the powerful Usmash hit while sliding for the one frame it's active.

I feel the platforms hurt Greninja trying to get back to the ground as well. He doesn't have the best landing options (Nair is decent enough in this regard I suppose), but Hydro Pump+general aerial mobility really helps out. Unfortunately, Battlefield platforms limits where he can land via Hydro Pump and pose a huge problem. He's given three options that can all be punished by the same thing when trying to land on platforms/below platforms. A. Airdodge on to platform. B. Land on platform C. Land on ground under platform.

Now, to be fair, this is pretty much across the board with most characters, but unlike most characters, Greninja does not have a hard punishing Usmash in this case. All the opponent has to do to stay safe is airdodge on to the platform. Sure, they can be punished by Bair or Uair, but that's just 3-7% (not sure if we can Nair punish on reaction, but that would help a little). There is pretty much no reason for them to go under the platform if Greninja is there, and instead, they can move on to another platform. This puts Greninja at a ridiculous disadvantage on BF compared to pretty much every other character in the game.

Although, honestly, if you can make it work, great! Not being forced to ban something is really nice after all. But I just do not see BF working out for my playstyle.

 

[Jay-kun]

The thing about Greninja's Usmash is that the first hit sends someone downward into the powerful hitbox (100% unnecessary btw. The powerful hitbox is the same length but just comes out later). Unfortunately, this means that characters standing getting hit by the first hitbox are popped up due to Smash 4's new grounded spike mechanics. This applies to literally any time the opponent is standing and is hit by the first hit of Usmash sans when they are at really low percents. Of course, you could try and time the powerful Usmash hit while sliding for the one frame it's active.

I feel the platforms hurt Greninja trying to get back to the ground as well. He doesn't have the best landing options (Nair is decent enough in this regard I suppose), but Hydro Pump+general aerial mobility really helps out. Unfortunately, Battlefield platforms limits where he can land via Hydro Pump and pose a huge problem. He's given three options that can all be punished by the same thing when trying to land on platforms/below platforms. A. Airdodge on to platform. B. Land on platform C. Land on ground under platform.

Now, to be fair, this is pretty much across the board with most characters, but unlike most characters, Greninja does not have a hard punishing Usmash in this case. All the opponent has to do to stay safe is airdodge on to the platform. Sure, they can be punished by Bair or Uair, but that's just 3-7% (not sure if we can Nair punish on reaction, but that would help a little). There is pretty much no reason for them to go under the platform if Greninja is there, and instead, they can move on to another platform. This puts Greninja at a ridiculous disadvantage on BF compared to pretty much every other character in the game.

Although, honestly, if you can make it work, great! Not being forced to ban something is really nice after all. But I just do not see BF working out for my playstyle.

Well you can shadow sneak or substitute to the stage

 

[BlinkIV]

The thing about Greninja's Usmash is that the first hit sends someone downward into the powerful hitbox (100% unnecessary btw. The powerful hitbox is the same length but just comes out later). Unfortunately, this means that characters standing getting hit by the first hitbox are popped up due to Smash 4's new grounded spike mechanics. This applies to literally any time the opponent is standing and is hit by the first hit of Usmash sans when they are at really low percents. Of course, you could try and time the powerful Usmash hit while sliding for the one frame it's active.

I feel the platforms hurt Greninja trying to get back to the ground as well. He doesn't have the best landing options (Nair is decent enough in this regard I suppose), but Hydro Pump+general aerial mobility really helps out. Unfortunately, Battlefield platforms limits where he can land via Hydro Pump and pose a huge problem. He's given three options that can all be punished by the same thing when trying to land on platforms/below platforms. A. Airdodge on to platform. B. Land on platform C. Land on ground under platform.

Now, to be fair, this is pretty much across the board with most characters, but unlike most characters, Greninja does not have a hard punishing Usmash in this case. All the opponent has to do to stay safe is airdodge on to the platform. Sure, they can be punished by Bair or Uair, but that's just 3-7% (not sure if we can Nair punish on reaction, but that would help a little). There is pretty much no reason for them to go under the platform if Greninja is there, and instead, they can move on to another platform. This puts Greninja at a ridiculous disadvantage on BF compared to pretty much every other character in the game.

Although, honestly, if you can make it work, great! Not being forced to ban something is really nice after all. But I just do not see BF working out for my playstyle.

I feel ya. I think it might just be dependant on the players' style then. Personally, I LOVE BF for Greninja. It also be MU dependant. As much as I love the stage, I would NEVER take a Palutena there (Due to WC). But I'd take Shiek there in a heartbeat.

 

[Jay-kun]

So how exactly do u find ur friend code? Also is the NNID the name under your "fighting name" on FG?

 

[monkokaio]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier, but there have been times where during a match, I try to hydro pump to the ledge, but I just bounce off into a tumble animation. This has caused me several stocks in the past. Does this happen to anyone else? And if so what is the cause?

 

[Lavani]

Hydro Pump bounces off walls if it impacts at a certain angle. In the case of it happening when trying to ledgesnap, I think the most common cause is accidentally holding down, which makes grabbing the ledge impossible.

It's worth nothing that if this happens on a stage with walls, you can wall cling and jump up to the ledge to save yourself.

 

[Jay-kun]

..anyone know how 2 find friend code?

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

..anyone know how 2 find friend code?

Edit it over here:
http://smashboards.com/account/personal-details

 

[Jay-kun]

Edit it over here:
http://smashboards.com/account/personal-details

No, I sound like a noob but I don't actually know my friend code...so yeah

 

[Gunla]

@ Jay-kun
Friend List on 3DS is the 3rd tab on the top, with the orange box with a smile.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Hello everyone. I've been having great difficulty in getting my Greninja to transition from defense to offense. How is Greninja supposed to deal with offensive pressure? His counter is slow, the only thing I find myself resorting to is jabs out of shield. I also been having difficulty with dealing against campers. Due to Greninja's lack of aerial mobility and his projectile can't really set up combo starters anymore. I also been looking at tournament videos of Greninja and I haven't really seen anything outstanding with the character.
I really would like to play Greninja at an intermediate level at the very least. I usually win my For Glory matches, but with Greninja I always seem to struggle.

 

[MartinAW4]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier, but there have been times where during a match, I try to hydro pump to the ledge, but I just bounce off into a tumble animation. This has caused me several stocks in the past. Does this happen to anyone else? And if so what is the cause?

As Lavani said, when you Hydro Pump against a wall at a perpendicular or close to perpendicular angle, you bounce off of it and enter a tumble animation. This happens with the ledge because there is a small wall on it which if you accidentally hit, you will bounce off of it.

What`s interesting though, is that you can still use your other specials like Substitute or Shadow Sneak in the tumble state. So if you find yourself in a situation when both the opponent and you are falling off stage on their last stock and you are in tumble state, you can at least stall in the air with Substitute to make sure that you fall later than your opponent.

 

[Jay-kun]

@ Jay-kun
Friend List on 3DS is the 3rd tab on the top, with the orange box with a smile.

i asked 4 wii u friend code location :/ but thx anyway

 

[Spirst]

i asked 4 wii u friend code location :/ but thx anyway

You mean the NNID? That's the Wii U equivalent of a friendcode and it can be characters other than pure numbers. To find it, press the home button the GamePad and tap the smiley icon on the bottom left "Friend List". It'll take to you to, you guessed it, your friend list. Your NNID should be on the top right in orange letters and from this menu, you can add friends.

 

[Ventus55]

Any tips on approaching people

 

[Woodmaster69]

SO i have been steadily improving with my favorite character Greninja (he is so nimble and i love his dodges and recovery) but i always seem to run into a problem. I sure can beat the hell out of someone, but how do i knock them out? Most games i get up to like 130-150% on them but my smash attacks just dont seem to do it. do i need to meteor them at the edge? do i need to starve them of their jumps? or is there a move Grenny has that has the power to straight killshot them? I'm new, so go easy on me plz, thnx

 

[Makani]

SO i have been steadily improving with my favorite character Greninja (he is so nimble and i love his dodges and recovery) but i always seem to run into a problem. I sure can beat the hell out of someone, but how do i knock them out? Most games i get up to like 130-150% on them but my smash attacks just dont seem to do it. do i need to meteor them at the edge? do i need to starve them of their jumps? or is there a move Grenny has that has the power to straight killshot them? I'm new, so go easy on me plz, thnx

Up-angled Substitute kills super early, especially in stages with low ceilings, fair is really good for closing out a stock as well. Not to mention Shadow Sneak.
You'll need some reads to get these types of kills though.

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

Anyone have any tips or could reccomend me best tools against captain falcon? My personal worst matchup with greninja..all his options come out fast and then im stuck having to predict the captain falcon the whole time seems like a difficult MU getting grabbed then up air strings..and dash attk approach stops WS..