Meta Two Sides of the Same Coin - Pit/ Dark Pit Meta Game Discussion

[LancerStaff]

Remember my critical hit thing? Apparently there's a general mechanic where you take more knockback when charging smash attacks. It's easy to see why people thought it was the Upperdash Arm doing it.

 

[ReRaze]

@ LancerStaff but I killed a greninja at 80% while he was in the air (I was on the ground).....

edit

@ MiloniVanili He didnt vector up i asked, and he was coming in for a fair.

 

[SharpEdge]

This is all personal preference from me, but as much as I'd like to adjust to Dark Pit, I can't get over the loss of my arrow guidance. Just being able to land just one more hit from so many more positions is so much more valuable than a bit more damage.

 

[MiloniVanili]

but I killed a greninja at 80% while he was in the air (I was on the ground).....

greninja is light and he was probably vectoring up

 

[CHOMPY]

I believe how the critical hit thing works is if someone hits you, while you don't flinch, thanks to the super armor, it deals far more knockback. In comparison to if you just hit someone that doesn't hit you. I could be wrong, but thats how I view it. Or it could be similar to Luigis side B misfire where he randomly launche, like crazy,

 

[kyoskue]

CHOMPY, just tested your "Electroshock Arm Critical Hit Counter" theory about a dozen times with no results, and no misfires yet either after about another 50 tries.

Its almost certainly due to the increase to knockback when struck while charging and unleashing charged Smash attacks and cases of bad VI.

Nice guess though.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Just wanted to say I started to use Pit as a secondary. And its very frustrating that people can escape and sometimes even punish his jab combo.
Otherwise, pretty solid character.

 

[meleebrawler]

Just wanted to say I started to use Pit as a secondary. And its very frustrating that people can escape and sometimes even punish his jab combo.
Otherwise, pretty solid character.

'Tis true for all infinite jabs. Smash DIing (repeatedly tapping
control stick in a direction to shift a character in hitstun) out of them
is harder on the 3DS since you can't be too rough on the circle pad.

General rule of thumb is only go for those jabs if really close.
Pit's gentleman jab (standard three hit) pops them up usefully though.

 

[LancerStaff]

Just wanted to say I started to use Pit as a secondary. And its very frustrating that people can escape and sometimes even punish his jab combo.
Otherwise, pretty solid character.

Stick to the normal jab, just holding A always works.

 

[Xmark]

I know this isn't the video thread but i'm going to just leave this right here....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHHi4_ilMhM

 

[IzunaDroppuh]

those wii u smash graphics are so smooth

 

[CHOMPY]

Just the other day, I was experimenting some of Pits move sets in Glory Mode. In terms of mindgames, I was able to run up to the player (anticipating they are going to put up their shield). In response, I was able to perform a RAR Bair to poke their shield, but its also a very safe approach. Now if I were to get myself in the same scenario, I can approach them with a nair this time as a possible mix up, or a grab them if they're anticipating the same thing from scene #1.

Scene #1:

Pit: Run up to them with a RAR SH FF Bair
Player 2: Puts up their shield

Scene #2:

Pit: Run up to them and perform an empty SH Nair to ftilt to poke thier shield even further
Player 2: Puts up their shield (in attempt to shield grab Pit)

Scene #3: (If your opponent puts up their shield)

Pit: Runs up to them and simply grabs them.

Now you see how mind games can work ; )

 

[FiXalaS]

I know this isn't the video thread but i'm going to just leave this right here....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHHi4_ilMhM

Dash Attack deals 12!

 

[LancerStaff]

Just messing around in training the other day, and I noticed all of their aerials SHFF autocancel, some later then others. Surprised nobody's said anything about it.

Me? Can't stand doing aerials without a C-stick. Don't judge, I'll have it this time Friday.

Anywhos, I'll be up all night then doing nooby things like playing classic practicing my SH aerials. I'm convinced that this'll separate the good angels from the great.

Dash Attack deals 12!

Freshness bonus dude.

 

[FiXalaS]

Just messing around in training the other day, and I noticed all of their aerials SHFF autocancel, some later then others. Surprised nobody's said anything about it.

Me? Can't stand doing aerials without a C-stick. Don't judge, I'll have it this time Friday.

Anywhos, I'll be up all night then doing nooby things like playing classic practicing my SH aerials. I'm convinced that this'll separate the good angels from the great.



Freshness bonus dude.

I never really got it to deal 12 -_-

how do I get this freshness bonus? the first move I use in training is a dash attack and it deals 11.

and I just now tried to kill an opponent a stock and never do the dash attack (it took time) and in the second stock the first move I use is Dash attack and it still deals 11 damage.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Does dark pit have any good kill moves apart from his F-Smash. Also is their any way to sweet spot ledges?

 

[LancerStaff]

I never really got it to deal 12 -_-

how do I get this freshness bonus? the first move I use in training is a dash attack and it deals 11.

and I just now tried to kill an opponent a stock and never do the dash attack (it took time) and in the second stock the first move I use is Dash attack and it still deals 11 damage.

For starters, freshness and stale moves in general only works in real matches. Other then that, I'm actually not entirely sure how it works. If that KO you got was in training that'd explain it, but otherwise I'm not so sure.

Does dark pit have any good kill moves apart from his F-Smash. Also is their any way to sweet spot ledges?

Usmash, Dsmash back hit, and Electroshock Arm namely. Later KO moves would be Fthrow and Bair, and Pit's Ftilt if yer desperate.

Sweet spotting the ledge? Uspecial right? Aim low. Really low. You'll slide up the side of the stage and grab ahold. Go ahead and mess around with the undersides of stages in training, especially Omega Brinstar (incredibly easy dispite how flat it appears) and Omega Mute City (difficult, especially when flying straight up into the side of the stage). A minute messing around in training beats a lost stock in Glory, that's for sure.

 

[Claxus]

Dark Pit's arrows are quite a bit more controllable now in 1.04, it's pretty cool. F-tilt is still the same, though...

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit's changes:

Buffs:

Nerfs:

Dark Pit's changes:

Buffs: Decreased KB on sour Ftilt, meaning it kindasortanotreally combos into jab and such like it was supposed to. Arrows redirect farther.

Nerfs:

*I'm finished jingle*

 

[Claxus]

Wasn't sure if the F-tilt was always that weak on sourspot... Since it has changed then, isn't it kind of a nerf? It seems like it gives a disadvantage on hit due to how little the knockback is at low percents.

Couldn't find any changes for Pit either... Did you check all his damage %s?

 

[CHOMPY]

Pit's changes: (So far)

Buffs:

- FF sourspot Fair to jab
- FF bair to ftilt is pretty awesome :D

Nerfs:

- Sour spot ftilt deals 7% instead of 10% (sweet spot will still deal 10%)
- Can't perform a dacus usmash as easily. Hopefully, we'll be able to perform that with the c-stick.

 

[LancerStaff]

Wasn't sure if the F-tilt was always that weak on sourspot... Since it has changed then, isn't it kind of a nerf? It seems like it gives a disadvantage on hit due to how little the knockback is at low percents.

Couldn't find any changes for Pit either... Did you check all his damage %s?

It's slightly weaker now, meaning it can almost be used for combos. It only combo'd into anything at basically 0% before.

Whoops, forgot to say I retested all of their attacks for damage. Didn't get into the nitty-gritty with decimal damage and KB for the most part though.

Pit's changes: (So far)

Buffs:

- FF sourspot Fair to jab
- FF bair to ftilt is pretty awesome :D

Nerfs:

- Sour spot ftilt deals 7% instead of 10% (sweet spot will still deal 10%)
- Can't perform a dacus usmash as easily. Hopefully, we'll be able to perform that with the c-stick.

Sour Ftilt always did 7%, and I'm not entirely sure those combos are new. DACUS if definitely harder though, but for everybody.

 

[CHOMPY]

It also seems like Pits dash attack has less startup animation.

 

[Deleted member]

@ LancerStaff

Does Dark Pit's sweetspotted Ftilt do as much knockback as Pit's now? It makes almost no sense that he has a gimped version of the move with no fundamental benefits elsewhere.

 

[LancerStaff]

@ LancerStaff

Does Dark Pit's sweetspotted Ftilt do as much knockback as Pit's now? It makes almost no sense that he has a gimped version of the move with no fundamental benefits elsewhere.

No. First thing I checked. Although the now weaker sour KB is making it look like it could combo somehow.

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

@ LancerStaff

Does Dark Pit's sweetspotted Ftilt do as much knockback as Pit's now? It makes almost no sense that he has a gimped version of the move with no fundamental benefits elsewhere.

That was the first thing I tested when I downloaded the patch, and no, Dark Pit's sweetspot Ftilt still has weaker knockback.

wow ninjas

But yeah, I can't find any differences for either Pit. Not that he needs it, but I was kinda hoping for some kind of buff.

 

[ReRaze]

I think pits down smash was nerfed a little? Did it always do 16% fully charged? (Pretty sure it did 17%)

 

[CHOMPY]

Here are some things I found that seemed a little bit different with Pit. (This requires some confirmation, as I don't have a spare 3DS along with a previous patch)

Buffs (unconfirmed)

- Utilt seems to have more range.
- His bair seems to have more range, and comes out quicker.
- Fair seems to have more knock back, and less of a multi hit move.

Nerf (unconfirmed)

The side B's super armor is not as effective when you get hit by someone from the ground from certain attacks. Still works, just not as effective.

Again, I want to someone else to test these, just to make sure if they are true.

 

[FiXalaS]

I don't think Pit's changed at all except for sour spot Ftilt.. I did notice something with Bair working better but I could be wrong.

 

[chipndip]

Pit's dash attack IS definitely faster on start-up. Noticed it immediately, but it also throws off combo timing...

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm really thinking it all placebo, guys, except maybe DP's Ftilt.

Really, I'm done searching for changes. If I haven't noticed after a day of on-and-off messing around and two hours straight of friend matches, it's so insignificant we shouldn't even care about it. And this is coming from a guy who managed to find out the GOs had SA at one point in development.

 

[Claxus]

I concur... I'm not feeling any if the changes. And the dash attack... It was already basically instant, could it actually be any faster?

Some changes could have been nice, but eh, what had to change? Pit's a truly solid character as is.

 

[chipndip]

I concur... I'm not feeling any if the changes. And the dash attack... It was already basically instant, could it actually be any faster?

Some changes could have been nice, but eh, what had to change? Pit's a truly solid character as is.

It is faster. Almost all of my game with Pit during early %s is throw -> dash attack. It comes out with almost literally no lag at all. Before there was slight start-up. Now it's near instant.

 

[ReRaze]

I'm really thinking it all placebo, guys, except maybe DP's Ftilt.

Really, I'm done searching for changes. If I haven't noticed after a day of on-and-off messing around and two hours straight of friend matches, it's so insignificant we shouldn't even care about it. And this is coming from a guy who managed to find out the GOs had SA at one point in development.

What's SA?

 

[CHOMPY]

No, the bair has more range than you realize. I was able to land two bairs on a sonic player last night. In comparison to the last patch, I was lucky to land any. Also, I feel they increased the knockback on bair as well.

I'm with @ C chipndip , they did decrease the startup lag on the dash attack as well. Yesterday, I was doing a Pit ditto and I was trouble blocking Pits dash attacks, so they are different. Everything else is the same for the dash attack.

 

[LancerStaff]

What's SA?

Super armor. At one point in the Smash direct, Mario dash attacks Pit while he's using the GOs and Pit isn't hit out of it. Real shame too, would of been nice to have.

 

[LancerStaff]

[Can you test DP's Ftilt and Dash Attack?]

I did several tests. The damage for both attacks are identical to both versions and so is the knockback. If there's any difference, it's negligible. I used the colored sections of Living Room (Omega Form) as positioning markers. All of this was done in training mode.

[Dash attack's speed?]

Tested it on 1/4 speed and regular speed, used the dash attack immediately on the blue/orange division on the Living Room (Omega Form) stage. Same distance, speed, and cooldown. As for it's hitbox, I really can't say. It's probably unchanged.

Just tryin' to make sure everybody knows what's new, or rather what isn't.

 

[Deathcarter]

Holy crap guys! http://smashboards.com/threads/dawn-of-a-new-day-vectoring-removed-in-patch-1-0-4.378709/

I wonder how much this buffs Upperdash Arm.

 

[LancerStaff]

Holy crap guys! http://smashboards.com/threads/dawn-of-a-new-day-vectoring-removed-in-patch-1-0-4.378709/

I wonder how much this buffs Upperdash Arm.

Depends if the opponent was smart enough to VI in the first place.

 

[LancerStaff]

Okay, SSB3D's data has been searched for changes. Here's ones we're interested in:


unknown value in subaction 1B3 tweaked from 0x2 to 0x4
subaction 250-252 and 258-25A windboxes unknown parameter changed from 0x3F to 0x1F
unknown value in subaction 2D0 tweaked from 1.0 to 2.0
unknown line added to subactions 2D8 to 2DC

subactions 250-252 and 258-25A windboxes unknown parameter changed from 0x3F to 0x1F

As you probably can tell, they both had the same line changed. Pit's extra ones I imagine are just fluff. But something involving windboxes has been changed. It's either the default GOs or Breezy Flight.

@Requiem Strider Think you could take a look?

And somebody else brought up the fact Falcon had a line changed, the exact same one, infact. While none of them have windboxes, the Sspecials all function similarly. My thought is that they actually have windboxes that will trigger the attack when a target gets close enough, and may of been changed.