Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Wario Wario Wario]

To think that literally all of this spiraled from Sakurai not adding some random picture guy from the Game Boy Camera.

The experience that changed my perspective on Smash had nothing to do with WAYRF, it was K. Rool's addition. While it took me years from the date to realise just how damaging it was, the excitement at the time lasted multiple days straight without pause and caused me immense, euphoric pain. As I've grown more mature, I've come to understand how I got to that state and want to prevent it from happening again to anyone; and learned my worth and come to understand just what a raw deal I got as a participant in the market research that got K. Rool added and his plastic Amiibos manufactured.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I want some creative dual reveals too, because it’s fun to see the ways characters bounce off each other. If Subspace or anything like it won’t happen again anytime soon, I prefer when reveal trailers emphasize the crossover aspect and have fun with their sandbox of dynamic characters.

Double points if they reveal two otherwise unrelated characters. Ken and Incineroar was cool as hell, we could use some more of that.

Praying I'll see Captain Toad and Bandanna Dee revealed TOGETHER sometime in my lifetime...

(The way the Smash fandom would bond together over both as friends would be the best thing ngl...)

This post I saw on BlueSky further emphasizes something I’ve always kind of insisted: that SSBU’s DLC run was a very important litmus test for which parts of the Smash fanbase actually plays video games other than Smash.

I'd still argue that to most who have lived on Nintendo's systems to this point and followed Smash before it went gungho with 3rd Party additions that didn't have much presences on Nintendo's platforms or even the gaming presence for a while (SNK until the current 20s), I wouldn't blame them for the reaction they had on Terry or feel disappointed by him.

If say, we saw Sakurai showcase more about his love of KoF and how it influenced Smash long before Ultimate, then the inclusion of Terry wouldn't have come that much off as an out of nowhere pick for the " grossly uninformed about wider scapes of gaming history and variety"... (eugh).

Can't help feeling this is why I personally just didn't like the entire hyperfocus on big or trendy 3rd Party additions on Ultimate's Fighter Pass due these kind of attitudes brought about it on what primarily is a Nintendo-crossover, no matter how many gaming icons it gets stuffed with.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Going off of the whole stuff about Link a few pages back, it's a little strange (but probably good) that character design discourse really just isn't a thing in Smash speculation at all. You never get that much venom over Smash swapping out character designs in their entirety, at most a meme or two, while in a lot of the original series' fandoms you'll see immense discussions over things like Sonic's quill length or Banjo's snout shape. The only character I've really seen much in-depth character design discourse - even civil types - over is Wario, and even then the Wario design that is wanted has always been there, it's just the ordering on the CSS people are upset over for uhh... some reason. I guess there's a very fringe support group for Classic Sonic as a replacement for Modern, but I'm pretty sure I'm only aware of that because I'm part of it.

 

[Otoad64]

Going off of the whole stuff about Link a few pages back, it's a little strange (but probably good) that character design discourse really just isn't a thing in Smash speculation at all. You never get that much venom over Smash swapping out character designs in their entirety, at most a meme or two, while in a lot of the original series' fandoms you'll see immense discussions over things like Sonic's quill length or Banjo's snout shape. The only character I've really seen much in-depth character design discourse - even civil types - over is Wario, and even then the Wario design that is wanted has always been there, it's just the ordering on the CSS people are upset over for uhh... some reason. I guess there's a very fringe support group for Classic Sonic as a replacement for Modern, but I'm pretty sure I'm only aware of that because I'm part of it.

I guess it’s probably because the designs in Smash aren’t seen as permanent changes. It’s just “this character is like this in Smash now” and not “this character is like this now, period”

 

[Diddy Kong]

I want the old Donkey Kong design in the next Smash though.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I want the old Donkey Kong design in the next Smash though.

This along with the old King Dedede design.

I'm not sure if that's an unpopular opinion. I just dislike Dedede's new design in general and I'd rather it not be carried over into Smash, either.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The whole "deep cuts vs. emotional attachment" thing that's been a recurring thread here has made me realise something: Smash has a very weird form of generational gap I don't think many have caught onto: 64 and Melee kids were into Nintendo as a whole first, then discovered Smash; but since Brawl, it's kinda become vice versa, where Smash is the gateway from just Mario/Pokemon into the wider Nintendo catalog, and not the culmination. To someone of my generation, Samus and Ice Climbers are essentially the same thing until proven otherwise, and the roster for Smash is, when you first see it, basically some Mario characters; some Pokemon; Sonic; and a whole bunch of Palutenas - and that's true even of active series just given the popularity disproportion and Smash being a younger-aimed game than a lot of the series featured. I wonder if that's where the mentality divide spawns from - it's hard for me to view someone like Fox as more than a cult character, while to someone around for the original marketing frenzy and Nintendo Power, he seems like a ubiquitous gaming character.

 

[UserKev]

They should bring back character select animated entries.

Remember in 64 where characters rotated in place and once you selected a character, they'd perform an introduction gesture? I know stage entries are still a thing, but I want the full package again.

 

[Perkilator]

They should bring back character select animated entries.
View attachment 399740
Remember in 64 where characters rotated in place and once you selected a character, they'd perform an introduction gesture? I know stage entries are still a thing, but I want the full package again.

Along with that, I'd like to see these:

If we're talking aesthetics/vibes for the next game, something that I think would be cool is if they pulled a Marvel vs. Capcom 1 when it comes to the character select screen.

The characters' nameplates were based on the typography of their source material rather than just an all-encompassing generic font. It'd be a fun way to inject some personality into the UI that's kinda sorely needed imo.

At the very least, even if that wasn't practical for the character select screen, seeing it for results and vs records would be at least something.

Or maybe even at the bottom of your character's damage HUD.
View attachment 399744
Speaking of, you know how if you used a nickname during gameplay, it would replace the character's name on the damage HUD? Maybe for the next game, you could have the character's name alongside any nicknames you used? Escpecially if the characters use MvC1-esque stylized logos.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

They should bring back character select animated entries.
View attachment 399740
Remember in 64 where characters rotated in place and once you selected a character, they'd perform an introduction gesture? I know stage entries are still a thing, but I want the full package again.

Melee tried to have these too, but they got cut probably due time constraints. Shame. But I wonder if with today's huge roster size, it'd be even harder to implement this.


- - - - - - -

So I was read on theories about having been planned to be included on the base roster (with Palutena's guidance and all), and just didn't make it due time constraints before launch. Makes me wonder was Plant gonna have a full-blown reveal trailer too if there was more time from development + marketing cycle left.

But my point with this is I genuinely believe Plant being worked to be on the base roster, tells me we're not gonna receive anymore Mario-reps from fan-request side (Waluigi, Toad, Kamek, etc) as it looks like Sakurai (and Nintendo) have pretty much come to deem Mario-series fully represented, and now feel like they've scraped the barrel completely empty from any interesting choices, that they ended going for out-of-the-box idea instead in form of Piranha Plant.

So I'm very confident Waluigi, Toad, Paper Mario and other requested Mario-reps ain't probably happening in Smash 6 because Sakurai doesn't see any interesting moveset potential in any of them in comparison to creating a whole moveset to a stationary mook instead. (And most likely, even if to a lesser extent, Nintendo isn't looking to be caring on pushing for new reps for Mario either).

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Melee tried to have these too, but they got cut probably due time constraints. Shame. But I wonder if with today's huge roster size, it'd be even harder to implement this.


- - - - - - -

So I was read on theories about having been planned to be included on the base roster (with Palutena's guidance and all), and just didn't make it due time constraints before launch. Makes me wonder was Plant gonna have a full-blown reveal trailer too if there was more time from development + marketing cycle left.

But my point with this is I genuinely believe Plant being worked to be on the base roster, tells me that we're not gonna receive anymore Mario-reps from fan-request side (Waluigi, Toad, Kamek, etc) as it looks like Sakurai (and Nintendo) have basically come to deem Mario-series fully represented, and are feeling like they've scraped the barrel completely empty from any interesting choices that they ended just going for out-of-the-box idea instead in form form of Piranha Plant.

So I'm very confident Waluigi, Toad, Paper Mario and other requested Mario-reps ain't probably happening in Smash 6 because Sakurai doesn't see any interesting moveset potential in any of them in comparison to creating a whole moveset to a stationary mook instead. (And most likely, even if to a lesser extent, Nintendo isn't looking to be caring on pushing for new reps for Mario either).

I'm not gonna touch on Toad, Paper Mario, or Kamek - but I think the reason Waluigi hasn't gotten in (or gotten more major roles) has nothing to do with moveset or notability, it is just a case of Nintendo not being aware of Waluigi's popularity until relatively recently. The Smash Ballot was released at a somewhat awkward time for Waluigi, the age of internet irony, most Waluigi fans had essentially just internalised the idea that they were memeing and didn't really like the character. I do not believe Waluigi support would've been ignored because of memes (fan reasoning for inclusions tends not to appear to be considered, see Banjo), but I do think that a lot of Waluigi fans would've just... not shown up, whether that's because they had internalised that Waluigi is just a meme and their vote was a troll, or just because of the classic "They're not gonna add Dixie, let's just vote for K. Rool" effect. Meanwhile, when Waluigi was shown as an assist trophy, the internet had begun to transition away from irony, and characters like Waluigi; Shrek; Garfield; Lightning McQueen; Sonic, had all gained a bit of a "yes, this is good actually" status and nobody really tried to claim there was some kind of bit to preserve street cred anymore. Brawl also had a ballot, but that was at a time where Waluigi was just an outright disliked character. I do think Waluigi is a lock for next time though - Smash is a headline chaser, Waluigi got them headlines without even being in the game, no way they're not gonna cash in on that.

 

[Dinoman96]

I feel like more than anything was just Sakurai trying to bring in another "surprise character" but couldn't think of another important enough historical character like , so he just settled on a Mario mook as the surprise this time.

If there's anything I think Plant killed, it's the notion of every Smash game having some random 80s character every game. I'd honestly go as far to say that Mach Rider to me was low key one of the red flags regarding the validity of the Grinch Leak, because well, it'd feels like whoever made the banner was oeperating on the typical Smash fan logic of "well, got to have a retro character this time!".

I legitimately think were the only characters in Smash included for the sole purpose of including a random NES era character; Sakurai even claimed that he cycled through various other options for the slot like Urban Champion, Bubbles, Excitebiker, etc but ultimately settled on the Climbers because he liked their gimmick (the duo fighter thing loosely inspired by the original game's co-op mode, obv) the most. As mentioned above, the likes of are technically from that era too, but Sakurai would sooner describe them as "surprise characters", and he considers Plant to be Ultimate's equivalent, thus once again kinda killing the notion that there has to be an dusty old 80s character every game.

So I guess that leaves just , who on the surface level just seems to be another random NES/Famicom (technically Famicom Disk System in this case, uh-huh) era character like the ICs, but Sakurai has actually implied in the past that Pit's inclusion was based on his popularity.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update

I was well aware that Pit was a popular character in both America and Japan. I tried as best I could to design this version of him in a way that reflected current tastes, so I'm happy to see him so well received.

I feel like to some extent, people kinda forget that before Uprising, there was a genuine amount of interest for Pit's return and a thus new Kid Icarus game. Go back to discussion regarding Melee circa 2001 and you can already see a handful of people requesting or speculating for Pit to make it in, such as, for example: https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?topic=1013.0

Or how about this old article: http://web.archive.org/web/20020202070514/http://cube.ign.com/news/35351.html

Heck, even Pit's English trophy description in Melee infamously ended with "Will Pit ever fight again?".

Sakurai himself even stated that one of the big reasons he went with the Kid Icarus license when putting together Uprising, was once again because he aware of demand for a new game in the series, especially after Pit's appearance in Brawl.

So personally I don't think Pit's inclusion was as arbitrary as some people seem to think it is, it just seems like Sakurai wanted to fulfill a fan request who happened to be old/forgotten, kinda like Brawl's equivalent to Smash Ultimate's King K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie if anything. I don't think any of the other weirdo NES era characters were ever on his level.

 

[Perkilator]

You know how KOF XV added msuic from other SNK games to its DJ Station through free updates? I think that's how I'd like to see music DLC in Smash Bros. rather than buying separate music packs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

They should bring back character select animated entries.
View attachment 399740
Remember in 64 where characters rotated in place and once you selected a character, they'd perform an introduction gesture? I know stage entries are still a thing, but I want the full package again.

While the character select animations were neat at the time, I can understand way the developers decided to transition over to stationary ui portraits when developing Super Smash Bros. Melee and its sequels.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Personally I think Piranha Plant being a mook who ended up being a playable character is a joke that only really works once, with most people not having any desire to see another character like that and I agree with the sentiment.


However


Every like 5 months I remember the funniest extra mode in CastleVania Portrait of Ruin, where you get to play as an Axe Armour which is unlocked by killing 1000 Old Axe Armours. This even got a callback in the Vampire Survivors CastleVania DLC and the PoR character seems to even have unique official art

If Sakurai was insane enough I could easily see him taking this character and adding OC touches like with a bunch of old characters and honestly, I wouldn't mind the idea. It's like, Kid Dracula tier as I certainly wouldn't prefer them over the likes of Shanoa, Alucard, Soma, Charlotte, etc, but I see the potential vision

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I've said this before, but I really don't get how Piranha Plant is a "joke". There's nothing particularly funny about it, and even if there was, the "joke" element only lasts like 5 seconds then disappears forever. It's just a cool character pick that should be the norm, not the exception. Same with Pichu.

I feel like more than anything was just Sakurai trying to bring in another "surprise character" but couldn't think of another important enough historical character like , so he just settled on a Mario mook as the surprise this time.

If there's anything I think Plant killed, it's the notion of every Smash game having some random 80s character every game. I'd honestly go as far to say that Mach Rider to me was low key one of the red flags regarding the validity of the Grinch Leak, because well, it'd feels like whoever made the banner was oeperating on the typical Smash fan logic of "well, got to have a retro character this time!".

I legitimately think were the only characters in Smash included for the sole purpose of including a random NES era character; Sakurai even claimed that he cycled through various other options for the slot like Urban Champion, Bubbles, Excitebiker, etc but ultimately settled on the Climbers because he liked their gimmick (the duo fighter thing loosely inspired by the original game's co-op mode, obv) the most. As mentioned above, the likes of are technically from that era too, but Sakurai would sooner describe them as "surprise characters", and he considers Plant to be Ultimate's equivalent, thus once again kinda killing the notion that there has to be an dusty old 80s character every game.

So I guess that leaves just , who on the surface level just seems to be another random NES/Famicom (technically Famicom Disk System in this case, uh-huh) era character like the ICs, but Sakurai has actually implied in the past that Pit's inclusion was based on his popularity.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update

I feel like to some extent, people kinda forget that before Uprising, there was a genuine amount of interest for Pit's return and a thus new Kid Icarus game. Go back to discussion regarding Melee circa 2001 and you can already see a handful of people requesting or speculating for Pit to make it in, such as, for example: https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?topic=1013.0

Or how about this old article: http://web.archive.org/web/20020202070514/http://cube.ign.com/news/35351.html

Heck, even Pit's English trophy description in Melee infamously ended with "Will Pit ever fight again?".

Sakurai himself even stated that one of the big reasons he went with the Kid Icarus license when putting together Uprising, was once again because he aware of demand for a new game in the series, especially after Pit's appearance in Brawl.

So personally I don't think Pit's inclusion was as arbitrary as some people seem to think it is, it just seems like Sakurai wanted to fulfill a fan request who happened to be old/forgotten, kinda like Brawl's equivalent to Smash Ultimate's King K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie if anything. I don't think any of the other weirdo NES era characters were ever on his level.

This kinda ties in to one of the reasons I dislike Smash fandom's mentality about fan demand: fan demand is inherently ephemeral, it does its purpose and dies in a fiery explosion of cheering. Fan demand can lead to good things, do not get me wrong on that, but fan demand appeal alone - the catharsis of "yes, Banjo's here, just like I wanted!" (assuming that's catharsis for most people and not euphoric anguish) - is not a good nor a bad thing, it... isn't a thing. It's not part of the product, it's an external factor effecting it, and nobody not yet born would be able to understand it come 2067 when Switch games can just be shared on big illegal ROM sets. Look at Sonic 4's pre-release countdown, is it possible that say - Sora getting in - could be percieved the same way by Gen Alpha?

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know how KOF XV added msuic from other SNK games to its DJ Station through free updates? I think that's how I'd like to see music DLC in Smash Bros. rather than buying separate music packs.

I think you're expecting way too many things to be released for free. It's easier for an SNK game to give you more pre-existing SNK music for free than it would be for a game that goes through a lot more licensing and recomposing for songs.

 

[SharkLord]

I've said this before, but I really don't get how Piranha Plant is a "joke". There's nothing particularly funny about it, and even if there was, the "joke" element only lasts like 5 seconds then disappears forever. It's just a cool character pick that should be the norm, not the exception. Same with Pichu.

It's not really a "joke" so much as a surprise. It was completely unexpected, so everyone goes "They put in a what?!" Does it last much longer after the initial shock? Not really. Of course, that's the point of a surprise. If you've already heard it before, it won't have the same impact. That's why most people discuss it as a designated surprise character, not a joke character. The straightest joke character Smash has is probably Melee Pichu, who was Pikachu but weaker and dealt damage to itself, making intentionally sucky to play.

This kinda ties in to one of the reasons I dislike Smash fandom's mentality about fan demand: fan demand is inherently ephemeral, it does its purpose and dies in a fiery explosion of cheering. Fan demand can lead to good things, do not get me wrong on that, but fan demand appeal alone - the catharsis of "yes, Banjo's here, just like I wanted!" (assuming that's catharsis for most people and not euphoric anguish) - is not a good nor a bad thing, it... isn't a thing. It's not part of the product, it's an external factor effecting it, and nobody not yet born would be able to understand it come 2067 when Switch games can just be shared on big illegal ROM sets. Look at Sonic 4's pre-release countdown, is it possible that say - Sora getting in - could be percieved the same way by Gen Alpha?

My unpopular opinion for this thread is that aside from climate scientists I don't think there's many people who give too much of a crap about how Smash reveals will be regarded 40 years later. Hell, Super Mario Bros. the game isn't even 40 years old yet (Though it's a few months away from that). Super Smash Bros. as a concept isn't 40 years old yet. I don't see why Nintendo or Smash fans should concern themselves with futureproofing Smash for as far out as 2067.

Also, this may be anecdotal, but the way people pop off for reveals, and how people on these boards look back and go "hell yeah man, I got my most wanteds, I'm chill now" tells me that catharsis over fighter reveals is very much a thing. It's not necessarily part of the code, but when a game's as big as Smash, people are bound to have opinions and reactions to it. If a fighter being in Smash makes you happy, that's real enough for you. If it causes you disappointment, that disappointment is real for you. If you change your feelings on it in hindsight, sure, that happens sometimes.

And either way, given how many people talk about it (or rather, how little people talk about it), I can only assume that most reactions to fighter reveals isn't "euphoric anguish." I... don't think I've even heard that phrase until now, actually. I've seen more people discuss being satisfied with reveals, or being disappointed but warming up to them later.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Generic Miis and game-themed Miis could very easily co-exist. Have the generic Miis be fully customisable, but just have a Mii selector like most other games when picking Tomodachi/Athlete/Musician/e.t.c., maybe seperate from a standard 8 costumes. There's already a decent format for distinguishing them in how the customisable Miis are at the end of the CSS in Ultimate.

Also Mii Mage makes no sense, unless assigned as specifically a Miitopia character and not a custom character. It's not really a different playstyle than Gunner and way too intricately themed for adequate skins.

 

[MasterCheef]

It is very disappointing Palutena did not pull better special moves from Kid Icarus in SSBU.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Having the Metroid assist trophy only be killable with ice when only like 2 characters have ice attacks isn't a cute reference, it's bad game design. Not even bad balance or competitive design or something nitty-gritty like most flaws I think exist in Smash, or even an unnecessary detail that's harmless alone but maybe signifies misplaced priorities (Link's laser, Piranha Plant footstool, e.t.c.) - just regular ol' nonsensically cryptic gameplay. The sort of thing the Angry Video Game Nerd could stretch for a good few minutes. A lot more egregious than other elemental oddities since the Metroid assist trophy is a legitimate threat and has no other real options for defeating, unlike say, Pikmin that can still go down anyway.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

The whole "deep cuts vs. emotional attachment" thing that's been a recurring thread here has made me realise something: Smash has a very weird form of generational gap I don't think many have caught onto: 64 and Melee kids were into Nintendo as a whole first, then discovered Smash; but since Brawl, it's kinda become vice versa, where Smash is the gateway from just Mario/Pokemon into the wider Nintendo catalog, and not the culmination. To someone of my generation, Samus and Ice Climbers are essentially the same thing until proven otherwise, and the roster for Smash is, when you first see it, basically some Mario characters; some Pokemon; Sonic; and a whole bunch of Palutenas - and that's true even of active series just given the popularity disproportion and Smash being a younger-aimed game than a lot of the series featured. I wonder if that's where the mentality divide spawns from - it's hard for me to view someone like Fox as more than a cult character, while to someone around for the original marketing frenzy and Nintendo Power, he seems like a ubiquitous gaming character.

I've been trying to say this for a while: the modern Smash titles do not have the same vibe the old games do at all. Despite all the reference points they keep, the playing field Nintendo has pushed since the Smash 4 days is a staggering contrast to the way even the Brawl saga was handled.

Unfortunately, this is a common phenomenon in the general Nintendo bubble.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

"Smaller and cuter" clones - like Pichu and the Links - are really underrated. I think they could lead to some really interesting playstyle variation, and generally are just very silly and endearing.