Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
Haha pwn, you don't have to tell Sax that. He's real good with tires. One of the best i've seen imo. Could work on his punishes with glide tossing though.
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Wario Video & Critique Thread -- Diamond City Theater
- Thread starter Iota
- Start date
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
I dunno... if he's thinking about choosing Snake.... 0.o Sax do you have any vids up? I'd like to see your tire game!
LOL Dyno those were awesome matches. I really like those pivot grabs that you got off in the first match, why did you choose RBC against Sebrik 2nd round? That stage is bad news vs MK :/
LOL Dyno those were awesome matches. I really like those pivot grabs that you got off in the first match, why did you choose RBC against Sebrik 2nd round? That stage is bad news vs MK :/
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
He'll have vids vs Hrnut and redhalberd up. As well as vs another MK, Radix. I think the Ones vs hrnut and radix really showcase his stuff well
But tires won't really give mk much pressure like most projectiles would, so it doesn't really persuade him to approach.
That, and they take far too long to make, and put you in a potentially bad situation trying to get them out
That, and they take far too long to make, and put you in a potentially bad situation trying to get them out
I think tires are only good if you have the opportunity to get them out. Trying to force them to come out will get you punished, but they help if you have the chance. Having the bike onstage is risky, because it's easy to get gimped without it. I think the tires help, but I really don't think it affects the MU by much.
Dude, I'm sorry, but once you experience playing a mk of Redhalberd's Caliber, you'll understand what I'm talking about. Wario can win, but it's either by timeout, or playing 100% perfectly.
I'll post the vids of me vs HR and me getting ***** by redhalberd. and Honestly for my mm with halberd, if you can offer ANY advice of where any openings where, I'd love that. Even with tires, he would just not fall for any of the gimmicks or get hit with the tires, he'd get rid of them with shield or tornado. And please don't say punish him while he is nadoing. He spaces it wayyyyyyy to perfectly. Honestly.
RadiX ones weren't saved :/
Yeah definitly! I think I kind of took him by surprise lol. And again, I still say I should have won the 2nd game too. If he had like 10 more % my fart would have killed him. But it's all good.I want to see the vid against HRnut. I wanna see you beat his Lucario with two stocks left. Wario vs MK is difficult, but it's hard to say how big the disadvantage is for Wario.
And trust me, It's an uphill battle the entire match. A solid 60-40. There is NO way it's any lower than that. It makes marth seem like a walk in the park, which is why i think marth is only 55-45. He's like an easier version of MK. I'm gonna start playing MK's wayyyyy more gay now. Like, I don't even care how boring it is too me. I'm just gonna force myself to do it.
No homo
Tires are pretty much useless against MK tbh. I play Wario so I actually know how they work. When he pulls out tires I just camp on the ground (normally I don't really camp I just space in the air) until they hit my shield and dissapear. They'll work against MKs who don't know specifically how to fight against him but I dont think they can really force anything to happen in this matchup.
Wario gets outzoned WAAAAY too hard it's pretty ridiculous. Even if you react perfectly with airdodges to his attacks doesn't mean you can even capitalize. You could spend 2 minutes dodging every attack and it still wouldn't mean you had a single opportunity to get in...
edit:
Yeah Sax pretty much sums it up. I don't even really camp in the matchup I just space really well to avoid getting punished. As long as MK stays ahead and is patient Wario will eventually come in and get punished.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Wario sucks at getting inside anyone with disjointed hitboxes lol
Even if this is true, you'll NEVER get that many chances to predict MK to actually do sometime that's greatly beneficial.
But seriously, if the mk has good reaction time, he'll be able to tell what you're doing since wario can't approach mk well.
@Master Raven: I believe wario only has trouble getting inside mk and snake. The others aren't really that hard. IMO
I disagree completely. MK's Uair completely frametraps every approach wario has. Most MKs just dont space/react well.
Agreed completely.
I dont usually camp Wario, but when I do, nobody gets in. Ever.
Which I've been meaning to ask.
Did you camp me both games? Or were you just smart aggro? It felt like you were being campy as all get out, but I"m just wanting to making sure.
I find it funny how most MKs when they face wario try to wall him out while on the ground. Would you say mk is better at walling while in the air?
It's up to what the indivdual player prefers really. Uair and Dair come out really fast so I prefer to use those to zone him, whereas on the ground he has to use reverse grabs, nado, fair and Utilt which aren't as reliable. But you have to be confident that you can react to Warios approaches otherwise it's better to stay on the ground and just run away and use nado. I get bored if I try playing that way so I don't lol.
Makes sense. Thanks for that.
I'm gonna do some more training in the mk MU with hr, some experimentation and whatnot, and I'll make my decision in using someone else for mk.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
Thats my comfort zone. I felt he was controlling me way to hard on smashville off stage and on. I needed room and a variety of different platforms, and grounds. Brins would just be gay vs mk, and delfino..idk maybe i was scared of a pocket D3 on that stage or just the sharking nonsense. I guess that leaves seige open for pick, maybe i should have gone with seige. I kept thinking to myself "what can i do differently to beat Seibrik. he plays Masky a lot and is one of the top mks." so i tried something mad risky. He ***** me first stock which forced me do the unspeakable technique so i wouldnt have to fight him on the boat again.
I'm really comfy on RC, Seibrik just outplayed me. He is the better player, nothing I could have done at that point would have won me the match.
BPx
Smash Lord
the only reason I ever cp RBC is to get non-MK mains to go MK, pocket MKs are freeeeeeeeeee
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Who do you play against that uses tires? You may want to check out the tire section in the AT thread to get a better understanding of em. If you were camping your shield, why would I throw the tire directly at you? I know they disappear on shields, what they doo doo (hehe) is bounce in place. When a tire is bouncing in place, it retains it's hitbox for one hit per character. If you are in your shield camping, all I have to do is bounce the tire next to you and Nair, pushing you into the tire while I have frame advantage.
Just one of the many tire tactics in development (and it is legit).
Youu're theory crafting. I'm obviously not JUST shieldcamping. I react safely and keep the optimum distance and position from Wario when he has a tire in hand. If he throws a tire I'll just react with my shield and if he doesn't I won't shield. Also, I avoid being under him so that he's not able to get frame advantage from hitting my shield anyway. Against anyone decent at the matchup and good against tires they're just an annoyance, they don't get anything started. Just wait for the vids to get uploaded...
2-DJeff
Smash Master
You got to admit though halberd the way solo uses tires against mks are pretty legit
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
i'd like to mm solo myself too, i consider myself to be (finally) rly good at this matchup, and i play wario heavily as well and IMO mk can make better use of the tires than wario can in most situations
wario just gets bigger punishes with them be it uair, or a d-throw trap fart (which really shouldn't even be landing on a mk that knows the MU) but mk can control space soooo well with his own bouncing tire and his existance combined, it actually allows mk to approach wario free imo
wario just gets bigger punishes with them be it uair, or a d-throw trap fart (which really shouldn't even be landing on a mk that knows the MU) but mk can control space soooo well with his own bouncing tire and his existance combined, it actually allows mk to approach wario free imo
2-DJeff
Smash Master
Yea if solo ever has money xD but he nvr really use the down throw trap because its to hard to land it. But halberd you should help him more at the mu you and hrnut I taught him all I could even after m2k taught me the mu alitte. With mk. At first when I got home from bbc I was beating solo now I get 2-3 stocked by him so ill go. Ic lol. But yea it seems like you and hrnut could give him good training
O and pwneroni he played solo all this weekend and gluttony /solo/co18 probaly uses tires more then anyone else
O and pwneroni he played solo all this weekend and gluttony /solo/co18 probaly uses tires more then anyone else
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Haha theory crafting is so laaaame I wanna play you dude! Where do uou live RedHalberd? If I ever happen to drop by that state we should totally smash.
While I agree that MK can be deadly with tires, his moveset really just doesn't mesh as well imo and he also has waaaay slower air speed. Wario has really good mixups with tire throws and bite, plus a lot longer range that he can punish from with deadlier moves than MK has (Uair, Fart, Nair for combos).
I'm not saying Wario is unbeatable with tires, but they DO help a lot in the matchup and they are a lot better than people realize. I would safely say that I would rather have a tire than not have a tire against MK.
While I agree that MK can be deadly with tires, his moveset really just doesn't mesh as well imo and he also has waaaay slower air speed. Wario has really good mixups with tire throws and bite, plus a lot longer range that he can punish from with deadlier moves than MK has (Uair, Fart, Nair for combos).
I'm not saying Wario is unbeatable with tires, but they DO help a lot in the matchup and they are a lot better than people realize. I would safely say that I would rather have a tire than not have a tire against MK.
How does MK not mesh with tires? He has a lot of combos, mix-ups and generally safe things with tires himself. No one said that tires aren't useful, they just don't make as much of a difference as you are implying.
I said this to you months ago haha.
We are all in Florida. Come to CEO!!! He'll be there. Lol
I don't mean to be a meat rider or anything, but red halberd is one of the best MKs in the nation. If not top 5, then top 10. Seibrik too.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
Hey halberd you really think its hard to place with wario? I would think it would be rather easy
Wario has to play patiently, accurately, and precisely against a lot of different characters with different habits from player to player. Further more, with Florida being as good as it is, auto-piloting gets punished heavily, unless you're a consistent top placer. It's very mentally draining as a Meta Knight main, so I can only imagine how much mental strain must be on Solo/Lies!/Sax.Hey halberd you really think its hard to place with wario? I would think it would be rather easy
2-DJeff
Smash Master
I'd rather fight MK too. Most MKs are pretty bad.Well I know solo prefers fighting mk then most characters like me but idk about sax
This is really true. When My set against HR is up, watch how I played his lucario. It may look like i was aggressive (Maybe haha), but I was actually just waiting until he made a move, and then i would punish accordingly. Though I'll admit I was spacing pretty perfectly too, well maybe not perfectly, but I think to be extremely well (just going of of what Esam told me). that has alot to do with it too, wario's HAVE to make sure they space perfectly at higher levels of play. IMO.
Well I know solo prefers fighting mk then most characters like me but idk about sax
Quoted for truth.
I don't mind Mk's, but when you're faced up with a good one, it's pretty darn hard.
But most are pretty easy, hence what Xdeath said. I'm starting to get more confident in the match now. Even if Redhalberd destroyed me, I realized what I was doing wrong in the MU, and what i needed to be doing.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
He said he sand bagged the lucario match sax which it looked like. But xdeath not everyone knows the ditto xD
Oh yeah I know, I asked him and he said he did.He said he sand bagged the lucario match sax which it looked like. But xdeath not everyone knows the ditto xD
That's besides the point though.
EDIT: Florida slowely taking over every character discussion board, one by one xD
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
I'm kinda ranked 2nd in the state I'd figure you'd know who I am lol.
I agree it's better to have a tire than not have a tire, because having a tire means MK can't just play however he feels like. MK can literally do whatever he feels like as long as he spaces well when Wario doesn't have tires, but he has to fight on the ground when you have a tire. But that's literally just until you throw the tire and then you lose your advantage.
Na I think it's hard as hell. So many gay matchups, half because of grab release, half because of zoning. Most of these characters outcamp you and are pretty common as well.. Snake, Yoshi, Falcon, DK, Sheik, Peach, Marth, Luigi. He only beats these characters if you camp as hard as humanly possible and land farts. Then most regular top tiers already have matchup advantages over Wario. Definitely like a worse version of Snake as far as matchup spread.Hey halberd you really think its hard to place with wario? I would think it would be rather easy
edit
Also Wario is the most mentally draining character in the game. It's fun for a while but it gets really frustrating after a short time. The only thing I disagree with you about is FL being a good region LOL.
