They generally just plain outprioritize my ASC's.
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What's the difference between Side-B and Down-B? [REVERSION: 8/18/09]
- Thread starter Tenki
- Start date
Napilopez
Smash Lord
I doubted it had to do with height, as far as I know the game doesn't keep any attack record for that. Wow even after infzy's testing we still don't know =/
Perhaps, like the Usmash, ASCs have a reduced hurtbox? Just not to the same extent perhaps? The angle thing seems like it might be true.
Also, we need to test this with Lucario at 150+ Damage. I've had eaten ASCs with lucario at that percentage all the time. Eaten in both sense of the word =P
Perhaps, like the Usmash, ASCs have a reduced hurtbox? Just not to the same extent perhaps? The angle thing seems like it might be true.
Also, we need to test this with Lucario at 150+ Damage. I've had eaten ASCs with lucario at that percentage all the time. Eaten in both sense of the word =P
Orange_Soda_Man
Smash Ace
Maybe I'm asking this in the wrong place, but you know how you can SDR up an edge? ... well, I've seen it on youtube anyways [looks for link].
How do you do it? Also, it seems pretty obscure. When would you want to use it? The rest of Sonic's gimping game seems significantly superior.
How do you do it? Also, it seems pretty obscure. When would you want to use it? The rest of Sonic's gimping game seems significantly superior.
infomon
Smash Scientist
Oh I think you're talking about a spindash jump (SDJ... ie. jump while you're rolling along the ground) that looks like it climbs up a wall and sorta shoots off the top. Like you can do it in Onett easy.
Orange_Soda_Man
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blLij6YRJTg
Watch from about 1:10 on for a few seconds. it looks like RATS might not have SDR straight up on the edge, but like you said infzy it could be a SDJ from very close to the edge.
Youtube needs slomo =/
Watch from about 1:10 on for a few seconds. it looks like RATS might not have SDR straight up on the edge, but like you said infzy it could be a SDJ from very close to the edge.
Youtube needs slomo =/
infomon
Smash Scientist
Ohhhh that's just side-B. The hop can roll up+onto the stage a bit.
Orange_Soda_Man
Smash Ace
I walljump under FD all the time, usually with a B-air against an unsuspecting opponent (wtf B-air goes through the stage? lolzorz)
I'll check that out. Expanding one's arsenal is never a bad thing =/
I'll check that out. Expanding one's arsenal is never a bad thing =/
JayBee
Smash Champion
he probably got away with it for that reason though...
infomon
Smash Scientist
That last thing happened to me today in a WiFi match vs. Neon Ness..... I iSDR'd across to hit him, then suddenly I'm shooting off the stage into a screech-stop, which caused my death. I was totally not expecting it......... I'm not sure what was the cause; maybe I started an SDR-turnaround just before I left the stage? I need to experiment, to make sure this never happens to me again lol.
I wonder if we can get screwed by shieldpush or even a clash with good timing. idk tho
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
(has only read the part where things were summed up. Just arrived here so doesn't know 100% of what has been said. I'm just gonna keep this simple)
I'm not sure when this was updated last but I made a video specifically for this topic. It isn't like everything stated in here. This is just cuts from matches I have had that show the difference between the Aerial Down - B Cancel(ASCC). And the Aerial Side B Cancel (ASDC).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEiNgAr14C8&feature=channel_page
Aerial Side - B Cancel actually has a time limit. Just like on the ground, you can only cancel it in the starting frames. Once started, it stops momentum completely so the only movement is downward, vertically. Just like how the ASC cancels on touch so does it. I personally don't use this for approach (Can't be used for approach anyway). More like baiting and mindgaming really.
Aerial Down - B Cancel we're all familiar with. So I don't need to go into it. But the difference is obvious. You actually have some horizontal movement at a unique angle and it can be used as an approach to grab. You get the drift I suppose.
If this has already been said then my bad. You can use the video if you want. You don't really have too. The music was for you Tenki lol
I'm not sure when this was updated last but I made a video specifically for this topic. It isn't like everything stated in here. This is just cuts from matches I have had that show the difference between the Aerial Down - B Cancel(ASCC). And the Aerial Side B Cancel (ASDC).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEiNgAr14C8&feature=channel_page
Aerial Side - B Cancel actually has a time limit. Just like on the ground, you can only cancel it in the starting frames. Once started, it stops momentum completely so the only movement is downward, vertically. Just like how the ASC cancels on touch so does it. I personally don't use this for approach (Can't be used for approach anyway). More like baiting and mindgaming really.
Aerial Down - B Cancel we're all familiar with. So I don't need to go into it. But the difference is obvious. You actually have some horizontal movement at a unique angle and it can be used as an approach to grab. You get the drift I suppose.
If this has already been said then my bad. You can use the video if you want. You don't really have too. The music was for you Tenki lol
Super_Sonic8677
Smash Lord
Short hop sideb is also shield cancelable
infomon
Smash Scientist
This is known, but that's a good video. It should be added to the OP, because shield-cancelling the landing of a charging side-B is something I forgot to put into mine 
neeeedz mooaaar video guides...... srsly random ppl actually watch them and might help us get moar sonic mains
neeeedz mooaaar video guides...... srsly random ppl actually watch them and might help us get moar sonic mains
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
I do the falling SDSC quite a lot. It makes it so epic. You'll rarely see my in SDR O_o. I cancel almost all of my rolls, basicly because almost everything is better than SDR. ASC hit? CANCEL. I jump after them, if they're at high % I spring to U-air. Holy **** I need to shield!? SDSC. I want to know how many more frames SDSC adds to the shield. If it's like 5 frames, it could be worth doing 
They psshwoooo sound might throw them off :O.
They psshwoooo sound might throw them off :O.
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
lol old?
Chis
Finally a legend
Tenki, when will you update this? :?
~TBS~
Smash Champion
Possible new discovery? dont get excited, you might already know it
So I messing around in training mode, and then I got an idea. Dashing and using side B canceling to turn around immediately. I know, this sounds small, and it can't be done in a regular way. When Sonic dashes, we all know that Sonic has 2 stopping animations, screech stop, and the screech stop with the noise. This Side B canceling can only be done within the time that Sonic would do the screech stop without the noise. This could (not saying it can) set some things up. I didn't really do much out of it except the smashes...I dont know how much this can help, or if its just useless. I just go really bored and started doing that. I need to test it out on some humans (good ones) to see if this even deserves to be mentioned. you have to be quick, because there is a short amount of time to do this.
For example:
Dash>Side B cancel the other way>????
i need some expansion on this. I can't really say if this is going to help or not. I hope we can get something, at least SOMETHING out of this.
*runs and hides*
So I messing around in training mode, and then I got an idea. Dashing and using side B canceling to turn around immediately. I know, this sounds small, and it can't be done in a regular way. When Sonic dashes, we all know that Sonic has 2 stopping animations, screech stop, and the screech stop with the noise. This Side B canceling can only be done within the time that Sonic would do the screech stop without the noise. This could (not saying it can) set some things up. I didn't really do much out of it except the smashes...I dont know how much this can help, or if its just useless. I just go really bored and started doing that. I need to test it out on some humans (good ones) to see if this even deserves to be mentioned. you have to be quick, because there is a short amount of time to do this.
For example:
Dash>Side B cancel the other way>????
i need some expansion on this. I can't really say if this is going to help or not. I hope we can get something, at least SOMETHING out of this.
*runs and hides*
Chis
Finally a legend
Are you talking about Sonic fox trot? When you smash the control stick and Sonic slides? Then a SD? Because a SD can be done anytime inside a fox trot.
~TBS~
Smash Champion
yeah, you smash it, but he DOESN'T slide. you do the side B cancel before he slides. but, yeah, i didnt know that it can be done anytime. shoot, i thought i found something.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
You can behind your opponent, turnaround SDSC to grab.
Napilopez
Smash Lord
Yea, you can actually use an SD from every single part of Sonics dash, whether it be foxtrot, initial dash, full out run. You can press SideB then immediately press back from a run to turn around sideB from that run. You can use it for a kind of SideB shield cancel pivot grab.
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Spinshot About-Face Aerial Spin Charge Shield Cancel
Discuss.
This something really sweet Blap brought up.
Discuss.
I get hit or grabbed out of the ASD(>shield) part too often.
Well, that's a general case that happens when I do a normal jump> SD.
It's even worse out of spinshot because you can't double jump. Arguably you can release if something bad happens, but you're still forced to land and SDR, else risk getting hit before you can shield cancel.
Well, that's a general case that happens when I do a normal jump> SD.
It's even worse out of spinshot because you can't double jump. Arguably you can release if something bad happens, but you're still forced to land and SDR, else risk getting hit before you can shield cancel.
Trillion
Smash Ace
Hey Tenki, sorry if the answer to this question is addressed somewhere in here, I looked and I just could not find it for the life of me, but does VSDJ (which I'm referring to the forward b special version of it) have invincibility frames on start up kind of like the hop usually does? A few days ago I played Kinzer on Lag-Fi and there were several times that he tried to attack me and i used it and i couldnt tell if my hitbox was beating out his hitboxes or if i was simply invincible on the start up. Do you know?
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
I dont think it has invincibility frames.
You prolly were beating him to the punch.
Trillion
Smash Ace
kk thank you CiTH
chaos_Leader
Smash Lord
Knock me upside the head if this is old news, but I've checked around, and I haven't seen any mention of something.
I'm not a Sonic main, but I've been experimenting with Sonic's Spin-Dash and Spin-Ccharge moves and I stumbled upon a useful technique:
At any time during the charging animations of Spin-Dash/Charge, if the control stick is tapped up (whether tap-jump is on or not), Sonic will do a little something else.
I've got video evidence to back me up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSyZmVOd3Ck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7VLHnS5HVk
-Instant Spin-Jump-
Input:
During Down-B Spin-Charge: tap up on the control stick.
(counts as a jump, but is not input as a jump since tap-jump was turned off)
Result:
Sonic fires into the air at roughly a 45 degree angle from a still position.
It is similar to the jump Sonic can make during a spin-dash, but comes straight out of the charge, and can be done very quickly.
-Vertical Spin-Dash-
Input:
Anytime during Side-B Spin-charge: tap up on the control stick
(counts as a jump, but is not input as a jump since tap-jump was turned off)
Result:
Sonic jumps straight into the air, but with the same animation as a normal Spin-Dash. Goes further and faster than normal jump
In my experiments, not quite as useful, but it'll get Sonic up in the air fast and not quite as far as the spring would.
Again, if this is old news to you guys: just smack me upside the head and call me stupid.
At any time during the charging animations of Spin-Dash/Charge, if the control stick is tapped up (whether tap-jump is on or not), Sonic will do a little something else.
I've got video evidence to back me up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSyZmVOd3Ck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7VLHnS5HVk
-Instant Spin-Jump-
Input:
During Down-B Spin-Charge: tap up on the control stick.
(counts as a jump, but is not input as a jump since tap-jump was turned off)
Result:
Sonic fires into the air at roughly a 45 degree angle from a still position.
It is similar to the jump Sonic can make during a spin-dash, but comes straight out of the charge, and can be done very quickly.
-Vertical Spin-Dash-
Input:
Anytime during Side-B Spin-charge: tap up on the control stick
(counts as a jump, but is not input as a jump since tap-jump was turned off)
Result:
Sonic jumps straight into the air, but with the same animation as a normal Spin-Dash. Goes further and faster than normal jump
In my experiments, not quite as useful, but it'll get Sonic up in the air fast and not quite as far as the spring would.
Again, if this is old news to you guys: just smack me upside the head and call me stupid.
My bad...*smacks* Stupid!
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
*Gasp!* ASIANS BEING WRONG? BLASPHEMY.inb4KID.
He's caught me being wrong here on the boards a couple of times.
infomon
Smash Scientist
chaos_Leader, thanks for posting, even though it's known.
I recommend (lolz) my own video on Sonic's side-B and down-B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ34M-Bdo6k
It only covers the basics (lol), but still. Spin Dash Jump (SDJ) is included
I recommend (lolz) my own video on Sonic's side-B and down-B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ34M-Bdo6k
It only covers the basics (lol), but still. Spin Dash Jump (SDJ) is included
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
you can wall jump out of SDJ.
please tell me this isnt old, cuz I didnt know this.
please tell me this isnt old, cuz I didnt know this.
Kinzer
Mammy
This guide is probably going to need yet another update.
So much metagame in two moves da****, it's ridiculous.
So much metagame in two moves da****, it's ridiculous.
darkNES386
Smash Lord
LoL, no I'm not going that in depth. Basic info figured out:
*Holding forward greatly increases success of it clashing/breaking though it.
-Certain moves such as Falco's laser can't be clashed with
-Some moves can always be clashed by holding forward.
-It's more dependent on Sonic's hurtbox/hitbox position relative to hitbox of projectile->Sonic's ASC is more likely not going to clash where as his spin dash roll is almost guranteed to clash if it's ever possible.
*This is easily seen with Pikachu's jolt since it has both an arc and tail that causes different parts of it to hit different parts of Sonic when he's doing an ASC. However, when he's doing a spin dash roll he's pretty much always hitting the front end of it.
Um... I'm sure you know more about the above. I don't see any mention though of clashing other then when discussing your OMON-what-cha-ma-call-it ASC landing thing.
Edit: Did DJ post hitbox pictures for the spin moves?
*Holding forward greatly increases success of it clashing/breaking though it.
-Certain moves such as Falco's laser can't be clashed with
-Some moves can always be clashed by holding forward.
-It's more dependent on Sonic's hurtbox/hitbox position relative to hitbox of projectile->Sonic's ASC is more likely not going to clash where as his spin dash roll is almost guranteed to clash if it's ever possible.
*This is easily seen with Pikachu's jolt since it has both an arc and tail that causes different parts of it to hit different parts of Sonic when he's doing an ASC. However, when he's doing a spin dash roll he's pretty much always hitting the front end of it.
Um... I'm sure you know more about the above. I don't see any mention though of clashing other then when discussing your OMON-what-cha-ma-call-it ASC landing thing.
Edit: Did DJ post hitbox pictures for the spin moves?
Gamepro17
Smash Rookie
The side-b special is also good if you get launched off the screen and survive, but it depends on what stage your playing on
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Lol the names.
The A1 even confused me.
The A1 even confused me.
Well, there have been many confusions over the meaning of the letters, so I, having not found it in the Official Prima Strategy Guide, made it easier for so even those who have not the very good Grammars in English can also understand.
Kinzer
Mammy
Tenki has made everything moar Steak.
Good stuff.
Nice Maxfire reference, and now I have a pink name da****.
Good stuff.
Nice Maxfire reference, and now I have a pink name da****.