What's the difference between Side-B and Down-B? [REVERSION: 8/18/09]

[Napilopez]

I really wonder why it works differently for the two contorllers though...

 

[infomon]

Hmm, true. I do everything with a classic controller
Ah well, massive wall-of-text!

SC: Spin Charge (down-B)
SC charging starts with 0 charges, but will gain 1 charge by continuing to hold "down" for just a few frames. Until there is at least one charge, NO button inputs will be functional. Once it reaches a charge of 0, it will abort the SC, and the charge level decreases over time.

While charging on the ground, if there's at least one charge:

let go of Down------= SDR
Jump-----------------= VSDJ
Grab------------------= VSDJ
Shield----------------= no effect
A----------------------= VSDJ
B----------------------= increase charge
C-stick up------------= immediate SDJ
C-stick forward------= immediate SDJ
C-stick backwards--= SDR forward into an immediate turn-around
C-stick down--------= VSDJ, or immediate SDJ if C-stick is set to Attack instead of Smash​

SD: Spin Dash (side-B)
Charging, but before full charge:

Up------------= VSDJ
Jump---------= VSDJ
Grab----------= grab (but in the first couple frames, it will do shield instead)
Shield--------= shield
A--------------= VSDJ
let go of B---= SD "hop"
more B-------= no effect
C-stick--------= VSDJ​

Charging at full charge:

Up------------= VSDJ
Jump---------= VSDJ
Grab----------= VSDJ
Shield--------= no effect
A--------------= VSDJ
let go of B---= SD "hop"
more B-------= no effect
C-stick--------= VSDJ​

SD "hop":
Control stick forward and back can lean the hop's momentum.

Jump-------= 2nd jump
Grab--------= 2nd jump
Shield------= no effect
A------------= 2nd jump
B------------= no effect
C-stick------= 2nd jump​

SDR: Spin Dash Roll

Back---------------= turn-around
Up-----------------= SDJ
Jump--------------= SDJ
Grab---------------= SDJ
Shield-------------= no effect
A-------------------= SDJ
B-------------------= no effect
C-stick back------= turn-around
C-stick (others)--= SDJ​

SDJ: Spin Dash Jump (including VSDJ: Vertical Spin Dash Jump):

Up--------------------= 2nd jump
Down-----------------= fastfall
Left/Right------------= control momentum
Jump-----------------= 2nd jump
Grab------------------= air-dodge
Shield----------------= air-dodge
A----------------------= Nair, Fair, Bair, Dair. Uair input will do a 2nd jump and a Uair immediately after.
B----------------------= Homing Attack; or you can also do an immediate up-B. Down-B and Side-B input have no effect.
C-stick up------------= 2nd jump
C-stick (others)-----= Fair, Bair, Dair.​

ASC: Aerial Spin Charge (while charging, and if there's at least one charge):
Let go of Down to release the ASC. Drift left or right by angling the control stick between Down-left or Down-right.

Jump----------------= 2nd jump
Grab-----------------= 2nd jump
Shield---------------= no effect
A---------------------= 2nd jump
B---------------------= increase charge
C-stick down-------= 2nd jump if available, otherwise no effect
C-stick (others)----= spin-shot if 2nd jump is available, otherwise it releases the ASC.​

ASC: released
Control stick left/right controls momentum, velocity, and attack power?

Jump-----= 2nd jump
Grab------= 2nd jump
Shield----= no effect
A----------= 2nd jump
B----------= no effect
C-stick----= 2nd jump​

 

[Chis]

Now no one will read this...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

You know that you can cancel the Side B with a sheild? Is there no way at all to sheild cancel it when it's fully charged?

 

[Tenki]

You know that you can cancel the Side B with a sheild? Is there no way at all to sheild cancel it when it's fully charged?

1- yes
2- not with shield. you can jump though.


In all honesty, it might not be so bad that this is stickied.

Like, noone ever read the Thread Index Zone, and so there was no way a newbie/lurker would ever find this unless someone bumped it.


The only problem now is shortening it without compromising the information.

 

[thecatinthehat]

No. Next best thing: VSDJ

Fu

ck, Tenki beat me.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

That's irritating. If I do happen to accidently charge my Side B too much, can any of you recommend the quickest follow up I could do assuming my opponent is getting closer?

 

[Tenki]

That's irritating. If I do happen to accidently charge my Side B too much, can any of you recommend the quickest follow up I could do assuming my opponent is getting closer?

you could just VSDJ backwards and fastfall.

Prediction (dash attack/dash grab):
VSDJ > D-air (or fastfall B-air)

Prediction (spotdodge):
release side-B> instantly do D-air when you pass his shield.


but yeah, there isn't much you can do out of a fullcharge except for jump, release, or spinshot.

 

[thecatinthehat]

-VSDJ
-Release Spindash
- JC into aerial
- JC footstool
- keep going.
-Spinshot

I cant think of any more

 

[infomon]

Depending on how they're approaching, release it and jump-cancel into an airdodge to just swing past them

Or JC into HA, if that's your thing.

 

[aeghrur]

Hm, for my wiichuck, I actually do VSDJ when I press A... I think. It's only full charged when I press A for a spinshot, or right after I release the Side-B

 

[Napilopez]

So I was thinking about SideB cancels, and came across a pretty darn cool realization I mentioned in the snake discussion. I realized that I powershielded moves veryyy very often with SideB cancels, so I wondered why? Well I realized that since cancelling the SideB give you that small forward boost, if you initiate the SideB just outside of your opponents range, and then shield cancel after a hitbox has come out, its like, an autopowershield. Because you are being boosted your opponents hurtbox instantly, and a shield happens as soon as you enter the hitbox, so it just auto powershields =P

Can't test this though right now =P

 

[R4ZE]

down-B > VSDJ > Nair/fair > ASC > Sheild cancel > repeat.

and i agree, i get a lot of power sheilds when i am trying to grab people with the side-b sheild cancel.


which is fantastic, great punish protection, and the power sheilds allow you to punish moves like mk's Dsmash

this increased chance ot power sheild is also apperant in ASC's sheild cancel.

 

[Napilopez]

That would seem likely. I think it has something to do with the shield being Buffed as you enter your opponents hitbox, so basically the shield as you enter the hitbox, allowing for easy perfect shields. Would have to test more though.

 

[Tenki]

or you could just shield the normal way .. lol

you guys probably normally shield too early, and the side-B startup frames help you delay it on time.


On a cool note that I noticed in a wifi match (lol):

If you ASC shield cancel, you still get a slight slide as you land while shielding.

I uh... ASC shieldgrabbed someone, landed slightly outside (like, just past the threshold) their grab range, and slid in range to countergrab lol.

it might help you with spacing, who knows. xD

 

[Napilopez]

or you could just shield the normal way .. lol

you guys probably normally shield too early, and the side-B startup frames help you delay it on time.


On a cool note that I noticed in a wifi match (lol):

If you ASC shield cancel, you still get a slight slide as you land while shielding.

I uh... ASC shieldgrabbed someone, landed slightly outside (like, just past the threshold) their grab range, and slid in range to countergrab lol.

it might help you with spacing, who knows. xD

Hehe yea, I've noticed that as well.

I still like SideB shieldcancelling, whatever the reason XD. I will admit I likely shield too early. But I think my argument may still hold true. hmm. Either way, SideB cancelling from a run just really messes with peoples spacing and stuff because the motion is less predicatable and harder to get used to than that of a running grab. Mixing em up is key though.

 

[Napilopez]

REQUEST!

Although I know the most recent thread was a troll, djbrowny's pic made me realize something, I think such questions about the differences between the two could be much more easily avoided if we just renamed this thread to indicate more clearly that this thread indicates the differences between the two spinsl. Unfortunately, I think some people don't realize that a "Mechanics" thread would describe the aformentioned differences.

Although that would clearly be the best place to search for the differences and ask questions pertaining to them, unfortunately a Noob probably wouldn't immediately grasp that from its current title.

Something that directly states it is a thread about the differences would be called for, methinks. Perhaps something like:

Side-B and Down-B Mechanics: Differences and Similarities EXPLAINED + moar.

or

The Differences Between Side-B and Down-B: MECHANICS EXPLAINED + moar.


Personally, I prefer the second option, because its so painfully blunt. Most new users will likely scan the first couple of words of the thread topics before asking, so this could come in handy. The second option would serve as an ADD counter.

 

[Tenki]

Yeah, I know `.`;

the side-B/down-B thread was never really meant for newbies anyway lol.

**** I feel like 4kids dumbing this down.

i'll get to it another time.

 

[infomon]

^^ I agree with Napz about the name change, that's a good suggestion. Subtle linguistic hints like that matter.

and LOL @ 4kids comment.... yeah.

I'll soon be done a video tutorial of advanced recovery strategies for Sonic (ie. using his Fair and spin specials to cancel hitstun and avoid killzones); I wonder if I should make a video tutorial to Sonic's specials, on their own; demonstrate SDJ and VSDJ, the different cancels, spinshot, etc.? Would this be useful? I guess just cuz some ppl don't enjoy reading through walls of text the way I do, lol. However I don't know if Brawl's big enough that we'll ever have enough ppl coming and trying to learn Sonic such that it would even matter... *shrug*

 

[Chis]

It's pretty obvious what i was, who doesn't know what mechanics is? L2english.

But yeah, dumbing it down again might help...

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, it was an obvious troll...

 

[Chis]

I know. I hope he got a big fat tasty infraction :')

 

[PitMasta]

No, it was an obvious troll...

Stupid Troll ish Stupid

or maybe he just doesn't know about Tenki's Greatness?

or he is just a n00b when it comes to forums...

 

[da K.I.D.]

no he actually admitted to being a troll and posting it to piss us off

 

[Ayaz18]

SDR???

I have no clue what this is, I read the OP but didn't get it

im guessing because its SDr it's a spin dash (side-B) then a roll??? doesn't spin dash make you hop a bit? so where does this roll come from

RRRRGGGG is there any vids of this or better explanations for this!

 

[Tenki]

it's the actual rolling attack on the ground :l

 

[Kinzer]

I always thought that it was Spin-Dash "Rush" before I figured that out on my own.

 

[infomon]

I wonder if I should make a video tutorial to Sonic's specials

RRRRGGGG is there any vids of this or better explanations for this!

*gets to work*

Edit: waaaah I missed my 1337'th post! >.> o wellz

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, Spin Dash Roll (SDR) is a just a nice name for the "OH LOOK, I PRESS SIDE/DOWN B AND NOW I AM SPINNING ACROSS THE STAGE REALLY FAST, JUST LIKE IN THE OLD SONIC GAMES!"

 

[da K.I.D.]

just do us all a favor and change the name of the thread to "the difference between side b and down b

 

[thecatinthehat]

just do us all a favor and change the name of the thread to "the difference between side b and down b

This is the smartest post I've ever seen around here.

 

[infomon]

Hmm. Fastfalled SC (entering the charge state) seems to fall faster than a normal fastfall. I mean, I don't think there's any downward momentum boost, but when you're fastfalling and start a down-B, it's like you shoot downwards a little. I think it's just an optical illusion, like the SC ball appears between Sonic's feet and his body, not on his head like you might expect, and also the opening frames of the down-B have a little smoke effect, so when you're fastfalling and down-B you see the smoke well above where Sonic's ball is lol.

But maybe not; I really feel like I hit the ground sooner when I fastfall down-B rather than just fastfall. It's not by much, but I almost wonder if I could dodge an air attack by suddenly shooting down in my little ball Almost certainly useless, since you could just airdodge instead...... o well.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ive felt its as well...

idk tho,

but it could be cool to pull a
dodge attack by FF SC --> VSDJ--> up air --> spring up air
...
sex

 

[da K.I.D.]

ok, people, this is rediculously stupid ...

ive seen 3 threads in the last week asking SPECIFICALLY for the information that is in this thread. only one of them was spam...
keep in mind the fact that we talk enough in this thread that it is the first thread on the page AT LEAST 50% of the time, and you can only come up to this conclusion.

i DEMAND THAT YOU:

change the name of this thread immediately...

its stupid that people dont know whats in here, so it obvious that it needs to be simplified.
change the name right now.

 

[infomon]

.... but how many of those ppl were trolls?

Actually, I think the latest one was serious :o

Anyway, I'm working on my side-B vs. down-B in-depth explanation vid lol, hopefully have it done tonight. I'm basically just going through everything in the OP lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

.... but how many of those ppl were trolls?

Actually, I think the latest one was serious :o

Anyway, I'm working on my side-B vs. down-B in-depth explanation vid lol, hopefully have it done tonight. I'm basically just going through everything in the OP lol.

only one of the last 3 was a actual troll.

the other two didnt come here because this thread does not say that it tells people between down b and side b

keep in mind, this was 3 threads, in one week...

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

WHAT THE HELL? It's a GIVEN what's discussed in here. People are stupid. >.<

 

[Camalange]

Yes, and that's why the title needs to be change...to fit the needs of the people...
And (most of) the people on the internet are stupid.

 

[da K.I.D.]

thank you for the change although i think you should have put the simple title before teh complicated title, or just taken the complecated title out completely...

but thats just me

 

[JayBee]

If you guys want, I could try to make one.... or not...