Where's my MOTHER?

[A Link to the Snitch]

So basically, instead of using damaging moves, they turn non-damaging moves into damaging moves?

Hint: It's a bad idea to modify content like that. Only one move in Ness' moveset does damage, and it would be a waste of more well-recognized moves to ignore them.

At no point is using two of the same moves with modifications a good idea. If you want to make them unique from each other, make them unique. The only reason anyone would give them the same move with different properties would be if they had no choice. They have choice.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

So basically, instead of using damaging moves, they turn non-damaging moves into damaging moves?

Hint: It's a bad idea to modify content like that. Only one move in Ness' moveset does damage, and it would be a waste of more well-recognized moves to ignore them.

At no point is using two of the same moves with modifications a good idea. If you want to make them unique from each other, make them unique. The only reason anyone would give them the same move with different properties would be if they had no choice. They have choice.

PK Rockin does damage.
Flash does damage. (more like, insta-destroy, but whatever)
Teleport could do damage, it triggered an explosion when interrupted, and last I checked, explosions do damage.

I don't care about making them unique. They should be somewhat similar to each other. What I want is faithful representation of the Mother characters.

 

[Tek32]

I would take either of those (perhaps even just the former), but that's purely a personal preference.



I pretty much couldn't care less about the Star Fox franchise, and I think they got too much representation. Rebuttal?

Frankly, I don't think you've ever played the games. You would instantly know that Ness and Lucas are nothing alike. The characters aren't simply "pieces of crap," especially not the next in line for Smash, Claus.

A valid opinion is not valid in and of itself, but requires the knowledge and experience to support said opinion. You're looking at things from a Smash perspective, which is EXACTLY what this thread is complaining about! The Smash series, glorious though it may be, is NOT an accurate depiction of the MOTHER series as a whole.

So not only have you (probably) not played any of the MOTHER games, but you undoubtedly have not read the thread itself (or at least not well...).



Supposedly. We received numerous reports about it (none describing his attacks, though). Seems kind of odd...

Well, OBVIOUSLY, you don't know what I have done because;

1.) I played Earthbound and beat it. (Wasn't too thrilled with the game.)
2.) Played the MOTHER game for about an hour and got bored out of my mind.

The part you ARE correct about is my opinions on their Smash appearance, and from that I am calling them horrible characters in Smash because they are too similar (not clones.)

 

[Spellman]

PK Rockin does damage.
Flash does damage. (more like, insta-destroy, but whatever)
Teleport could do damage, it triggered an explosion when interrupted, and last I checked, explosions do damage.

I don't care about making them unique. They should be somewhat similar to each other. What I want is faithful representation of the Mother characters.

He's only got two special moves that he didn't have in the game, and they fully acknowledged this and suggested reasons for it in the trophy description of Ness in Melee. Gee, Mario doesn't have to turn into Fire Mario to shoot fireballs in this game, and Kirby doesn't have to collect hats of enemies to do his moves.

And why is Zelda using Link's magic? Did Zelda go around exploring Hyrule and collect the Great Fairy's moves too? I've never seen her use those in the game.

While the moves in Smash Bros. are not always faithful to the original games, it doesn't really matter because it's merely a tribute and they sometimes try and pack as much history into one or two characters as they can. They could have packed Ness full of his own moves, but that wouldn't do any justice to any of the other characters in EarthBound who couldn't make it. He at least stayed true to the original Smash Bros., which is what matters, since Brawl is a sequal to Smash Bros., and not EarthBound. With Lucas, they made room for some other psychic moves and he got PK Ice or whatever. Maybe it's a little disappointing that there wasn't a few more moves showcased with him that set him apart from Ness, but that's only going to open up the tired clone debate, so there's no point.

They're just animated trophies of characters anyways, not the actual characters.

But I guess if it grinds your gears, it grinds your gears.

 

[Cubelarooso]

HOLY ****ING ****!
Are you complaining that EARTHBOUND, a series with 3 games, 2 of them Japanese-only, none of them PAL, all of them cult, and is now officially over, is under-repped!? A series with 2 characters, 2 levels, a bunch of songs, and at least two items, is under-repped?
You are a hopeless fanboy! Earthbound is WAAAAY over-repped, even when not comparing it to other, IMPORTANT, and ACTUALLY IGNORED series. It barely deserves 1 character, and maybe a stage to go with it. Earthbound needs to move over and make room for other minor series (Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Custom Robo, etc) instead of being the paragon of partiality (besides Star Fox, of course).

 

[Devotion]

Well I'm kinda pissed that Mother only has Lucas and Ness. Really wanted to see Claus in there and to have at least an AT from each Mother game, but I'm being kinda biased since I really like the series. Still its really popular in Japan so I'm surprised it didn't get any more rep like Masked Man Claus as a playable =(.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

HOLY ****ING ****!
Are you complaining that EARTHBOUND, a series with 3 games, 2 of them Japanese-only, none of them PAL, all of them cult, and is now officially over, is under-repped!? A series with 2 characters, 2 levels, a bunch of songs, and at least two items, is under-repped?
You are a hopeless fanboy! Earthbound is WAAAAY over-repped, even when not comparing it to other, IMPORTANT, and ACTUALLY IGNORED series. It barely deserves 1 character, and maybe a stage to go with it. Earthbound needs to move over and make room for other minor series (Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Custom Robo, etc) instead of being the paragon of partiality (besides Star Fox, of course).

Earthbound is a lot better a game than Golden Sun

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Why should they? Ideally, every character should be their own. Two facts:

1. Every character should be their own, original characters with their own, original moves.

2. Ness and Lucas are fully capable OF being completely different.

Cubelarooso, you are one who should never speak. The very moment you mentioned Golden Sun as being more significant than EarthBound, or even comparatively.

GS got some music and an AT. It was over-represented, considering it's a franchise that hasn't been relevant with the exception of its remaining fanbase that replays the games and wants a sequel.

EB definitely deserves a character, not "barely" deserves it. GS had two games last gen, with an obvious decline in sales. Mother started on the NES, came to the SNES, was heavily covered on the N64 (cancelled), and was finally released on the GBA. Nintendo and Sakurai know a fanbase exists for the series - one much, much bigger of a fanbase than Golden Sun could ever dream of having.

Mother got less than the average number of songs, doesn't have any trophies made especially to BE trophies, and for no logical reason, Fourside, an excellent piece of music, was left out of Brawl - unlike every single song from Melee with the exception of SMB and SMBII.

 

[Spellman]

Earthbound is a lot better a game than Golden Sun

EarthBound is kind of a cult classic still, not everyone can stomach it, not even RPGamers. But most of them will acknowledge Golden Sun as a great game, and I'd have to agree. Good production value, awesome sound quality, very nice graphics and standard RPG gameplay. And EB fans should appreciate it for it's ample use of psychic moves.

I think EB is awesome, mind you, but I'm just judging from reactions people give me when I let them try it. It's a hit or miss game.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

EarthBound is kind of a cult classic still, not everyone can stomach it, not even RPGamers. But most of them will acknowledge Golden Sun as a great game, and I'd have to agree. Good production value, awesome sound quality, very nice graphics and standard RPG gameplay. And EB fans should appreciate it for it's ample use of psychic moves.

I think EB is awesome, mind you, but I'm just judging from reactions people give me when I let them try it. It's a hit or miss game.

I thought it was a relatively plain series created solely because the profit other RPG's get such as FF

I didn't really see anything special about it after that...

Golden sun was ok, but what really is special about it?

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Golden Sun's gameplay is very standard.

EB's plot is original, the characters are great, and it was ahead of its time with enemies appearing on the overworld.

Golden Sun, while beautiful, with great audio, and a good plot, is not near the game EB is.

 

[FlyinG ShoosteR]

Well, OBVIOUSLY, you don't know what I have done because;

1.) I played Earthbound and beat it. (Wasn't too thrilled with the game.)
2.) Played the MOTHER game for about an hour and got bored out of my mind.

The part you ARE correct about is my opinions on their Smash appearance, and from that I am calling them horrible characters in Smash because they are too similar (not clones.)

1.) Doubt it. Why? V
2.) Which MOTHER game, buddy? They're ALL MOTHER games, Earthbound is just the U.S. name. What you said is like saying "I played Twilight Princess and beat it. (Wasn't too thrilled with the game.) Played the Zelda No Densetsu (Japanese name for Zelda series) game for about an hour and got bored out of my mind." You gotta be a little more specific. Because if your referring to the first Mother game, neither of the characters we are discussing are in that game.

 

[Masque]

Well, OBVIOUSLY, you don't know what I have done because;

1.) I played Earthbound and beat it. (Wasn't too thrilled with the game.)
2.) Played the MOTHER game for about an hour and got bored out of my mind.

The part you ARE correct about is my opinions on their Smash appearance, and from that I am calling them horrible characters in Smash because they are too similar (not clones.)

Yeah, sorry if I came off like a bit of a ****. I just had no idea how you came to your conclusion because of your lack of details. When you say "the MOTHER game," do you mean MOTHER 1 or MOTHER 3? M3 is definitely the way to go; use a translation guide (GameFAQs) if you need to.

Either way, we can agree that they are a little too similar in Smash.

 

[Spellman]

I thought it was a relatively plain series created solely because the profit other RPG's get such as FF

I didn't really see anything special about it after that...

Golden sun was ok, but what really is special about it?

It had some memorable characters and personalities. And with Square pretty much ditching Nintendo at that point, it was one of the few great RPG's that the Gameboy Advance had to offer. Obviously you're right, it has themes in it that are strongly influenced by other RPG titles of it's nature, but it's not like we have any representatives from a game like that in Super Smash Bros. anyways, so why not? It did have awesome production quality, you need to be playing on the Nintendo DS Phat or on your Gameboy Player or with speakers to really notice how advanced the music was for being one of the earlier Gameboy Advance titles.

It's an awesome game and stuff, the only thing holding me back from fully wanting someone from Golden Sun being a character is that we already have plenty of sword weilding fighters now, and their psychic moves may too strongly resemble Zelda's or Ness's moves, and having a giant glove floating through the air might suggest that he controls Master Hand or some jazz like that, I dunno, I'm fine with him being an Assist Trophy though. I just don't think it's fair to compare.

Point is, if someones looking for a high quality RPG in the vein of medieval style themes, I'd say Golden Sun is the best of the best even vs. some of the newer Final Fantasy titles because it doesn't strive too far to be complicated, and psychic ability is still a unique thing in games. I think I'm actually going to go back and play it now.

Golden Sun's gameplay is very standard.

EB's plot is original, the characters are great, and it was ahead of its time with enemies appearing on the overworld.

Golden Sun, while beautiful, with great audio, and a good plot, is not near the game EB is.

I like Earthbound more then Golden Sun just because it's so unique, and would take EB over Golden Sun any day. But when comparing two high quality games here. Golden Sun will never have as big of an open fanbase as Earthbound does, (starmen.net), but there are still people who remember the golden days of the Gameboy Advance, and I'm sure there are a lot of less open fans out there.

Smash Bros. isn't a popularity contest anyways. Sure a few characters from the suggestion polls actually made it, so whether Golden Sun is more popular or not doesn't really matter. Lot's of series could have had a character but like I say, not a popularity contest.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

EarthBound is kind of a cult classic still, not everyone can stomach it, not even RPGamers. But most of them will acknowledge Golden Sun as a great game, and I'd have to agree. Good production value, awesome sound quality, very nice graphics and standard RPG gameplay. And EB fans should appreciate it for it's ample use of psychic moves.

I think EB is awesome, mind you, but I'm just judging from reactions people give me when I let them try it. It's a hit or miss game.

If people are put off by Earthbound's gameplay, it's quirky absurdist humor could always win them over, at least.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

The fact of the matter is that GS isn't half the game EB is. It's certainly a great RPG, but it fails on so many levels to be its own. It uses the unique PSI energy gimmick, but it feels very "me-too" when it comes to plot and battle gameplay.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Why should they? Ideally, every character should be their own. Two facts:

1. Every character should be their own, original characters with their own, original moves.

2. Ness and Lucas are fully capable OF being completely different.

2 facts? The first one sounds like your opinion. I think it's more important to be faithful to the franchise, and I don't think we'll see eye to eye here.

And Ness and Lucas are capable of being completely different, EVEN using their own moves.

He's only got two special moves that he didn't have in the game, ¨*and they fully acknowledged this and suggested reasons for it in the trophy description of Ness in Melee. Gee, Mario doesn't have to turn into Fire Mario to shoot fireballs in this game, and Kirby doesn't have to collect hats of enemies to do his moves.

3.

And why is Zelda using Link's magic? Did Zelda go around exploring Hyrule and collect the Great Fairy's moves too? I've never seen her use those in the game.

I always thought it was ingenious, I mean, Zelda is so close to the Goddesses and the triforce it made sense to me. Besides that, she had nothing to draw from. Ness has.

While the moves in Smash Bros. are not always faithful to the original games, it doesn't really matter because it's merely a tribute and they sometimes try and pack as much history into one or two characters as they can.

*glares at Ganondorf*

They could have packed Ness full of his own moves, but that wouldn't do any justice to any of the other characters in EarthBound who couldn't make it. He at least stayed true to the original Smash Bros., which is what matters, since Brawl is a sequal to Smash Bros., and not EarthBound. With Lucas, they made room for some other psychic moves and he got PK Ice or whatever. Maybe it's a little disappointing that there wasn't a few more moves showcased with him that set him apart from Ness, but that's only going to open up the tired clone debate, so there's no point.

No, this is the opposite of fair. It slams the door in the face to those characters for all future iterations of Smash. Unless he gets a changed set. It's now a big mess...

But I guess if it grinds your gears, it grinds your gears.

Since 1999.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Ness can use Paula and Poo's moves just fine. It's ingenious that they'd pack in moves that would otherwise be unrepresented into Ness.

Paula and Kumatora wouldn't have a chance for the fact that they're outdated. Ness, Lucas, and Claus are really the only ones with a chance in another installment of Smash.

 

[FlyinG ShoosteR]

Ness can use Paula and Poo's moves just fine. It's ingenious that they'd pack in moves that would otherwise be unrepresented into Ness.

Paula and Kumatora wouldn't have a chance for the fact that they're outdated. Ness, Lucas, and Claus are really the only ones with a chance in another installment of Smash.

Hows Kumatora outdated? she's in the same game as Lucas and Claus.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Ness can use Paula and Poo's moves just fine. It's ingenious that they'd pack in moves that would otherwise be unrepresented into Ness.

Unrepresented moves... like... Ness's own moves?

Paula and Kumatora wouldn't have a chance for the fact that they're outdated. Ness, Lucas, and Claus are really the only ones with a chance in another installment of Smash.

Eh... Kumatora is in the same game as Lucas and Claus. Besides that, I guess that with Ness's inclusion in Brawl, Sakurai would believe Mother 2 deserves representation. I dunno why. Mother 3 shoulders somewhat on the events on Mother 2, and unlike many other party members, Paula rivals Ness in importance. But when it comes to relevance, maybe Kumatora does trample her.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

PK Flash
PK Shield
PK Teleport (intro)

And what did he not have?

PK Rockin'
PK Hypnosis
PK Paralysis
PK Lifeup
PK Healing

And let's ask ourselves how viable most of these moves are.

PK Hypnosis? Mewtwo.
PK Paralysis? Mewtwo (The two are basically the same idea in Smash)
PK Lifeup? Not viable.
PK Healing? Not viable.

PK Rockin' is the only viable move Ness has that he doesn't ALREADY have in Brawl.

With Smash, what would he have done? Shield, Teleport, PK Rockin'. And Melee? Shield, Teleport, PK Rockin, Flash. And Brawl? Exactly - he doesn't have enough viable moves to make his own, viable moveset.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

PK Flash
PK Shield
PK Teleport (intro)

Ness does not have Shield or PSI Shield. He has PSI Magnet, a... Paula move. PSI Magnet aborbs PP, which for some reason translated as absorbing damage in Smash.

And a move that only serves as an intro and is not part of his moveset shouldn't be counted.

And what did he not have?

PK Rockin'
PK Hypnosis
PK Paralysis
PK Lifeup
PK Healing

And let's ask ourselves how viable most of these moves are.

PK Hypnosis? Mewtwo.
PK Paralysis? Mewtwo (The two are basically the same idea in Smash)
PK Lifeup? Not viable.
PK Healing? Not viable.

PK Rockin' is the only viable move Ness has that he doesn't ALREADY have in Brawl.

With Smash, what would he have done? Shield, Teleport, PK Rockin'. And Melee? Shield, Teleport, PK Rockin, Flash. And Brawl? Exactly - he doesn't have enough viable moves to make his own, viable moveset.

Hypnosis puts people to sleep. Mewtwo didn't put anyone to sleep, as his move was disable. And how or why should Paralysis compare to disable too? It is not a "stun" move, it actually... paralyses.

 

[LavisFiend]

If you ask me, it should have been: Giygas, New Age Retro Hippie, and the Runaway Five as characters...

but nooooo, we had to get the lame MAIN characters....

Friggin' stupid Sakurai. =(

I MEAN, DIDN'T EVEN GET THREED....Excuse me while I /wrist kthnxbai.

 

[Pheonix]

Are you my MOTHER?

No, I'm a dog!

omg thats from that one book.
i seriously lol'd when i read that

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Giygas would looks like a creepy version of Mewtwo...

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Giygas would looks like a creepy version of Mewtwo...

The people that worked in Mother/Mother 2 went on to work in Pokemon and rumor is, they based Mewtwo on Giygas.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

*sigh* What would Paralysis do? Inconsistently disable them? Hypnosis and Paralysis would basically cause the character to stop moving in SSBB for a period of time, and Shield would just be too similar to Magnet.

Fire and Freeze deserve to be moves more than almost every single move in the game. They're signature PSI moves. Lifeup, Healing, Shield, they're either not viable, or redundant. They could rename PSI Magnet to PSI Shield, but it wouldn't be the same move and wouldn't make any sense at all.

You STILL haven't given any reason to not give Ness those moves - especially not an argument that Ness has better moves that don't have to really stretch logic to make work.

 

[Big-Cat]

*sigh* What would Paralysis do? Inconsistently disable them? Hypnosis and Paralysis would basically cause the character to stop moving in SSBB for a period of time, and Shield would just be too similar to Magnet.

Fire and Freeze deserve to be moves more than almost every single move in the game. They're signature PSI moves. Lifeup, Healing, Shield, they're either not viable, or redundant. They could rename PSI Magnet to PSI Shield, but it wouldn't be the same move and wouldn't make any sense at all.

You STILL haven't given any reason to not give Ness those moves - especially not an argument that Ness has better moves that don't have to really stretch logic to make work.

Paralysis could freeze the person in place. If they're in the air, they just crash to the ground. Basically, it'd be a lethal edge guarding technique. Shield and Magnet do two different things. Shield raises defense and Magnet absorbs PP.

Last I checked, a signature move is something no one else has. This would apply to Rockin', Love, Starstorm, Pray, and Ground. Freeze, Fire, and Thunder are the game's answers to elemental spells.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

*sigh* What would Paralysis do? Inconsistently disable them? Hypnosis and Paralysis would basically cause the character to stop moving in SSBB for a period of time, and Shield would just be too similar to Magnet.

Paralyze. Hypnosis would put people to sleep. Only one of those should be part of Ness's special moves though.

Fire and Freeze deserve to be moves more than almost every single move in the game. They're signature PSI moves. Lifeup, Healing, Shield, they're either not viable, or redundant. They could rename PSI Magnet to PSI Shield, but it wouldn't be the same move and wouldn't make any sense at all.

...Fire and Freeze are not signature moves. And who said anything about Shield? I just corrected you, but Shield shouldn't be part of Ness's moveset.

You STILL haven't given any reason to not give Ness those moves - especially not an argument that Ness has better moves that don't have to really stretch logic to make work.

I did. I said to be more faithful to the game. More farfetched reasoning is that maybe Paula/Kumatora/Poo could appear in a future Smash game.

 

[onlymaskde]

I'm not really disappointed with the representation of MOTHER in SSBB, but it would've been really nice to have more stuff from the series packed in with the game. In Melee there were six trophies for the games, and each party member had their own trophy. It was just cool seeing them all, but still, without them in Brawl isn't a big deal. New Pork City looks awesome, at least. The bright side to all of the none-representation of the games is that it may spark a bunch of people in the US to call up Nintendo asking about Lucas and Ness. Not getting my hopes up here, but maybe that'll give them more motivation for an official translation of MOTHER 3. >:[

If it were me, instead of putting Lucas as a playable character I would've chosen Poo or Paula. Giygas as a stage would've been pretty cool, too.

 

[espio87]

hey, I just made an interesting find.
it seems PK Love IS in the game, but as standard attacks. look at this pictures:

see those PK energy hexagons?
ok, now watch this video of lucas performing PK Love Omega.
Warning: near end of Mother 3 Spoilers ahead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ahPxGYKrQ
watch the video at 1:20 and you will see Lucas use PK Love Omega. at the end of the animation you'll see PK energy hexagons. so it's possible Lucas uses PK Love as his Down Smash and Upward Smash, as well as most of his aerials.
note: since PK Love Beta, those hexagons appear as part of the attack animation

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Paralysis would, again, be too similar to Disable. Disable basically stops the opponent in their tracks - what would Paralysis do?

 

[espio87]

Paralysis would, again, be too similar to Disable. Disable basically stops the opponent in their tracks - what would Paralysis do?

pretty much the same thing disable does. the animation of the opponent would be that of the broken shield. it's an attack that does no damage but incapacitates the opponents.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

That's precisely my point. Why give Ness someone else's move?

 

[Big-Cat]

That's precisely my point. Why give Ness someone else's move?

By that logic, there should only be one sword user in the game.

 

[espio87]

and besides, that is not what disable really does in the pokemon games. disable just makes the opponent unable to use one move, but can still attack with the others. PK paralysis just ... paralyses.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

That's precisely my point. Why give Ness someone else's move?

Maybe because it wouldn't be exactly the same, as it would paralyze, not stun, and either way, Mewtwo may not appear in any Smash games.

 

[Nuvia]

You should be happy that you get two characters from a series that has only THREE GAMES, one of which isn't even available in English.

 

[Ouendanation]

You should be happy that you get two characters from a series that has only THREE GAMES, two of which aren't even available in English.

fixedddddddd

hey, I just made an interesting find.
it seems PK Love IS in the game, but as standard attacks. look at this pictures:

see those PK energy hexagons?
ok, now watch this video of lucas performing PK Love Omega.
Warning: near end of Mother 3 Spoilers ahead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ahPxGYKrQ
watch the video at 1:20 and you will see Lucas use PK Love Omega. at the end of the animation you'll see PK energy hexagons. so it's possible Lucas uses PK Love as his Down Smash and Upward Smash, as well as most of his aerials.
note: since PK Love Beta, those hexagons appear as part of the attack animation

Lucas' PSI STYLE IN GENERAL uses hexagons (in MOTHER3), so Sakurai just did that to reflect his PSI style. It doesn't mean PK LOVE is used in his attacks... If it were in, as much as I wish it were, it would be much bigger. *sigh* I wish Ness at least had 'Rockin...

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

No, not by that logic. Swords are unbelievably easy to make unique. Two paralysis moves are not.

What fanservice would exist in PK Shield or PK Paralysis? Really, the only fanservice would be PK Teleport and PK Rockin'. There would be fanservice in PK Fire, Freeze, Ground, Thunder, and Starstorm, but not in Paralysis.