Where's my MOTHER?

[PrettyGoodYear]

Too bad Jeff is just an AT he would have made a great PC oh well maybe next time.

Paula deserves it more. She actually rivals Ness in importance. Sure, Jeff saved them in Threed, but it was Paula who contacted him.

And Pray... whenever I think of Pray, I think of this picture:
Notice it's inaccurate. They're supposed to be robots there.

EDIT: posted a thumbnail instead.

 

[espio87]

Paula deserves it more. She actually rivals Ness in importance. Sure, Jeff saved them in Threed, but it was Paula who contacted him.

And Pray... whenever I think of Pray, I think of this picture:
Notice it's inaccurate. They're supposed to be robots there.

EDIT: posted a thumbnail instead.

It may be innacurate, but it's still an awesome pic. really epic I must say.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

I was talking to PrettyGoodYear, who doesn't seem to get it. Toon Link and Adult Link SHOULD be different.

 

[Big-Cat]

I was talking to PrettyGoodYear, who doesn't seem to get it. Toon Link and Adult Link SHOULD be different.

The way I'm reading it, he thinks that they should be different like Ness and Lucas.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

They should be different and use unique moves.

B: Hurricane Slash
Smash B: Hammer
Up B: Deku Leaf
Down B: Gust Jar
Final Smash: Four Sword

Not only would it be simple to do, it'd be more interesting. Same with Ness/Lucas.

 

[Big-Cat]

They should be different and use unique moves.

B: Hurricane Slash
Smash B: Hammer
Up B: Deku Leaf
Down B: Gust Jar
Final Smash: Four Sword

Not only would it be simple to do, it'd be more interesting. Same with Ness/Lucas.

Exactly.

nyoro~n

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

The way I'm reading it, he thinks that they should be different like Ness and Lucas.

That's what I said. TLink and ALink should be different, like Ness and Lucas should be too.

 

[SinisterLizard]

This thread fails. There are THREE flippin' Mother games, and it gets two reps. Metroid, which is in the top 50 all-time best selling franchises, still making Nintendo tons of money gets the shaft with one character and only a halfway attempt at a Prime stage. So blargh.

Be happy with your two playable characters.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

This thread fails. There are THREE flippin' Mother games, and it gets two reps. Metroid, which is in the top 50 all-time best selling franchises, still making Nintendo tons of money gets the shaft with one character and only a halfway attempt at a Prime stage. So blargh.

Be happy with your two playable characters.

This has been addressed already, moron. Read the thread, we're not talking about characters. And guess what? WE AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

1. So Ness and Lucas shouldn't have the same move with modifications.

2. Sinister, I know you're pretty incompetent and don't have basic understandings of reality, but let's analyze two facts:

You didn't read the discussion at all, which by extension, probably indicates your inability TO read, and

Mother got a clone character. How is that a second rep? Yeah, poor Metroid, got two completely original characters with no similarities besides who they are, while Mother was lucky enough to get a clone of Ness!

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

1. So Ness and Lucas shouldn't have the same move with modifications.

2. Sinister, I know you're pretty incompetent and don't have basic understandings of reality, but let's analyze two facts:

You didn't read the discussion at all, which by extension, probably indicates your inability TO read, and

Mother got a clone character. How is that a second rep? Yeah, poor Metroid, got two completely original characters with no similarities besides who they are, while Mother was lucky enough to get a clone of Ness!

1. Yes they should have the same moves with modifications.. because they're very different vissually in the Mother games. Based on the attack art, I can make PK Love a chargeable beam/Shadow Ballish attack, PK Rockin' and Up B, a Side B that works as a standarized version of the Zero lazer... lots and lots of things. Lucas's PK Flash could work like Fox's blaster, Zelda's Din Fire...

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

And they're also different. Just because they recycle the same moves doesn't mean they should.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

And they're also different. Just because they recycle the same moves doesn't mean they should.

Do explain.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Explain? To be unique is what each character should be. Give a reason to use them besides "one's faster/stronger/lighter/heavier/a better comboer/a better jumper/with better recovery". If all Lucas was was "the same names, different effects", that wouldn't be interesting. Moves are about nostalgia and fandom, on top of accuracy. But accuracy is not the "end all, be all". I would rather see Starstorm represented than PK Flash twice.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Claus should have been playable. That's all I have to say.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Explain? To be unique is what each character should be. Give a reason to use them besides "one's faster/stronger/lighter/heavier/a better comboer/a better jumper/with better recovery". If all Lucas was was "the same names, different effects", that wouldn't be interesting. Moves are about nostalgia and fandom, on top of accuracy. But accuracy is not the "end all, be all". I would rather see Starstorm represented than PK Flash twice.

But PK Flash, despite having the same name, would be TOTALLY different from Ness and Lucas.

 

[espio87]

But PK Flash, despite having the same name, would be TOTALLY different from Ness and Lucas.

don't they have the same effect in the mother games?

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

don't they have the same effect in the mother games?

Yes. But transating them into Smash moves, using the in-game representatio (i.e. Attack animation) could allow anyone to make 2 different PK Flashes. Lucas's would be an unchargeable (as he only learns one) fast projetile, it would go on a straight line... or it could surround Lucas with a great area of effect... the possibilities... Ness's would be pretty much like he's now, except yellow. He can charge it because he learns four different versions of it.

Get it?

 

[espio87]

Yes. But transating them into Smash moves, using the in-game representatio (i.e. Attack animation) could allow anyone to make 2 different PK Flashes. Lucas's would be an unchargeable (as he only learns one) fast projetile, it would go on a straight line... or it could surround Lucas with a great area of effect... the possibilities... Ness's would be pretty much like he's now, except yellow. He can charge it because he learns four different versions of it.

Get it?

yeah, like they made the difference between the two PK Fires, but now applied to moves they learn in the game

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

yeah, like they made the difference between the two PK Fires, but now applied to moves they learn in the game

Kinda... except more... they'd be in different directions too.

 

[Spellman]

Can't deny the potential for any of the clones. I'm not going to call the development team lazy because they've done more than enough character creation, but I know there was some room for the new moves like you's people say.

But yea, there certainly were options they could take for Lucas and the rest of the clones. Seeing Toon Link with a pair of Mole Mits would have been spectacular. But it's still not a total loss, I still love seeing the characters at their best graphically, I love the visuals and these characters still play well. It's still all good to me.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

What would be the point? Basically, you'd play Ness, say "ooh aah", and then when you play Lucas, all you notice is that they're the same moves recycled. The only thing interesting about them are the way they're done, and I am more interested in good, original ideas than good, recycled ones.

 

[Big-Cat]

What would be the point? Basically, you'd play Ness, say "ooh aah", and then when you play Lucas, all you notice is that they're the same moves recycled. The only thing interesting about them are the way they're done, and I am more interested in good, original ideas than good, recycled ones.

Well, one route to go would be alternate costumes of each other but that's questionable seeing that Ness will probably appear in every Smash to come. Although, with Ness and Lucas, the B moves would really be the ones recycled but they're different yet similar moves. Right now, they're already Luigifications of each other more or less.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

What would be the point? Basically, you'd play Ness, say "ooh aah", and then when you play Lucas, all you notice is that they're the same moves recycled. The only thing interesting about them are the way they're done, and I am more interested in good, original ideas than good, recycled ones.

Well... the only move they'd share is PK Flash... and it'd be done very very very very differently. The way I put it, Ness even get's it as a Standard B and Lucas as a side B.

 

[Kiki52]

From what I understand, it takes the same amount of time to make a new model for an alt for Ness and Lucas as an alt for him so it's better to have two separate characters Ness and Lucas rather than having Lucas as an alt for Ness. I just say they make Lucas and even Ness have different moves more so, I wouldn't mind having Ness having different moves than he has for the past three Smash games just like I wouldn't mind Ganondorf having an entirely new moveset based around his sword.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Erm, they wouldn't share PK Love and Rockin'? For Heaven's sake, they're the SAME MOVE.

Only the most blind of EB fans would want them to give multiple references to the same content, and at the same time, I wonder why they would want LESS content from EB in Brawl.

 

[Big-Cat]

Erm, they wouldn't share PK Love and Rockin'? For Heaven's sake, they're the SAME MOVE.

Only the most blind of EB fans would want them to give multiple references to the same content, and at the same time, I wonder why they would want LESS content from EB in Brawl.

Well, here's one way to think of Ness and Lucas but it's not the best way: They are like Mario and Luigi, similar yet two different characters.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

And they shouldn't be. You say it's not the best way to think of them, but you insist that it's how they should be?

 

[Big-Cat]

And they shouldn't be. You say it's not the best way to think of them, but you insist that it's how they should be?

Yes and no. I think their special moves should have at least some similarities in purpose but the usefulness is different. Let's say Lucas has PK Flash as a projectile and Ness has it as it's always been. Despite the same effect, both are to be used in different situations.

Their A moves and throws (except Lucas') are fine the way they are.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

But WHY? PK Fire is already a projectile! PK Freeze could be changed to be different from PK Flash, PK Starstorm is just fine, and PK Magnet is just fine. At no point does Sakurai need to get rid of these perfectly good moves, and it would be a waste of a good reference to just say "use these same moves, but make them look different".

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

But WHY? PK Fire is already a projectile! PK Freeze could be changed to be different from PK Flash, PK Starstorm is just fine, and PK Magnet is just fine. At no point does Sakurai need to get rid of these perfectly good moves, and it would be a waste of a good reference to just say "use these same moves, but make them look different".

Fine doesn't cut it.

EDIT: and it's just not make them look, but make the WORK totally different. If the moves work totally different than one another, who cares if they're named the same?

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

So fine doesn't cut it? I guess yours doesn't even have the tools to cut it with.

Why in the world is giving five moves double representation better than more representation?

Might as well chance Lucas to "Robot Ness".

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

So fine doesn't cut it? I guess yours doesn't even have the tools to cut it with.

Why in the world is giving five moves double representation better than more representation?

Might as well chance Lucas to "Robot Ness".

I guess you missed all the Lucatora jokes we had.

And WHAT Five moves? There only usable sharable move is PK Flash.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

So what other moves would they have?

And yeah, I know you seem to think that PK Love and Rockin', despite being the same moves are not the same moves...

THEY ARE.

Jeez. So you want less original content, I want more. Hmm. I dunno, I guess I'm just weird in that I don't want Sakurai to just recycle the same ideas constantly, and that the idea of Lucas being unique from Ness is something I think most everyone would prefer.

And may I ask why Ness and Lucas cannot represent PSI moves? Zelda can represent the Goddesses because she's linked to them, but for some reason, Ness and Lucas are strictly limited to what they can do in their games, and can do nothing more than that?

What don't you get about "accuracy =/= end all, be all?" Accuracy is good unless it stomps all over ingenuity and originality.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

So what other moves would they have?

And yeah, I know you seem to think that PK Love and Rockin', despite being the same moves are not the same moves...

THEY ARE.

Jeez. So you want less original content, I want more. Hmm. I dunno, I guess I'm just weird in that I don't want Sakurai to just recycle the same ideas constantly, and that the idea of Lucas being unique from Ness is something I think most everyone would prefer.

And may I ask why Ness and Lucas cannot represent PSI moves? Zelda can represent the Goddesses because she's linked to them, but for some reason, Ness and Lucas are strictly limited to what they can do in their games, and can do nothing more than that?

What don't you get about "accuracy =/= end all, be all?" Accuracy is good unless it stomps all over ingenuity and originality.

What PK Rockin and love have in common is that they're both massive damage moves that you can name and correspond to the main character.

Now, how in hell is a a bunch of blue hexaons the same as Red, Yellow and Blue lines?

And Ness and Lucas cannot represent PSI moves the way they do because I want Paula, Kumatora and Poo to actually have a chance at being at least Assist Trophies.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

Um, yeah, so, what makes them different now? having a different default name?

Oh, wait, I forgot, they look different.

I guess PK Fire from Mother 3 is different from PK Fire in EarthBound, because they have different designs.

Oh, and just a note, your wants don't reflect what's good for the characters. Do Kumatora and Paula and Poo only have those moves to use?

Can Kumatora not use Lifeup/Shield/Paralysis?

Can Poo not Mirror an enemy, or use one of the above moves?

Can Paula not Pray?

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Um, yeah, so, what makes them different now? having a different default name?

Oh, wait, I forgot, they look different.

I guess PK Fire from Mother 3 is different from PK Fire in EarthBound, because they have different designs.

Oh, and just a note, your wants don't reflect what's good for the characters. Do Kumatora and Paula and Poo only have those moves to use?

Can Kumatora not use Lifeup/Shield/Paralysis?

Can Poo not Mirror an enemy, or use one of the above moves?

Can Paula not Pray?

The way PK Fire, Freeze and Thunder got redesigned was more of a generation update. Look at PK Rockin and Love and compare that difference to the others.

Build a good moveset for Kumatora with just that.

Paula and Poo can certainly be assists though.

Anyway, good night A Link to the Snitch. I shall go to asleep now, so I'll check tomorrow this thread. Sweet dreams.

 

[Big-Cat]

The way PK Fire, Freeze and Thunder got redesigned was more of a generation update. Look at PK Rockin and Love and compare that difference to the others.

Build a good moveset for Kumatora with just that.

Paula and Poo can certainly be assists though.

Anyway, good night A Link to the Snitch. I shall go to asleep now, so I'll check tomorrow this thread. Sweet dreams.

Actually, I can make a moveset with just the other moves that weren't stolen:

Hypnosis, Paralysis, Brainshock, Ground, and STARSTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORM!(sorry, I just like doing that).

B: Paralysis: This can be charged. Takes a ball of PSI, charges it up to Omega level, and then tosses it. Anyone hit will automatically be stuck in place, even in mid-air and this loses their chance to recover.

Side B: Brainshock: Points in the direction she's facing. Anyone close enough to her will get into a broken shield state. The attack itself is invisible.

Down B: PK Hypnosis: Works like Mewtwo's Hypnosis but better range.

Up B: PK Ground: Jumps up, and then punches the ground. The direction she faces will have stalagmites rise.

Final Smash: PK Starstorm: Unlike Ness and Lucas' versions, these fall from the left of the stage diagonally.

 

[espio87]

Actually, I can make a moveset with just the other moves that weren't stolen:

Hypnosis, Paralysis, Brainshock, Ground, and STARSTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORM!(sorry, I just like doing that).

B: Paralysis: This can be charged. Takes a ball of PSI, charges it up to Omega level, and then tosses it. Anyone hit will automatically be stuck in place, even in mid-air and this loses their chance to recover.

Side B: Brainshock: Points in the direction she's facing. Anyone close enough to her will get into a broken shield state. The attack itself is invisible.

Down B: PK Hypnosis: Works like Mewtwo's Hypnosis but better range.

Up B: PK Ground: Jumps up, and then punches the ground. The direction she faces will have stalagmites rise.

Final Smash: PK Starstorm

nice, but aside from Ground and STARSTOOOOOOOOOOOORM! (I like doing that too), she doesn't have too much agressive special moves. maybe sakurai gave Ness and Lucas those PKs because they would be more status changer than agressive characters, and therefore they would requiere more practice to combo their moves.

 

[A Link to the Snitch]

They're the same moves. If they were called PK Rockin' both, they'd be called the same move.