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Wii/Wii U

Mic_128

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How do you know if you hit them/have health/accidently turned off the rev?
 

blaksheap82

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That's exactly what I thought of before I even looked at Mic's post. I was implying that with what I posted; come on, use some common sense.
 

Resting_Fox

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What if the last secret of the Rev was that it came with a footpad made of rubber over a layer of ballbearings that acted like a treadmill and detected motion. Would you love it or hate it?

Personally I would hate it. But it was an idea I had for a more immersive device. You know, for when they get TV's that can project holographs into your entire living room.

Anyway, the only question I have about the Rev's control scheme is how FPSs will handle a turning/strafing scheme. It makes sense that the remote will control your crosshair, but if you want to turn suddenly, would it be better to use the joystick or to point the crosshair at the edge of the screen...Maybe they'll implement one of the shoulder buttons for strafing, say, you hold L1 and tilt the joystick right to strafe right, and let go of L1 when you want to shift your view again. That seems like the best set up to me.
 

Mic_128

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Well the controlls for Metroid Prime was using the Nunchuk to go forward/backward and strafe and the Rev to turn, and it seemed to work rather well.
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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Will a fighter w/o TV work?
It isn't as simple as kaid makes it sound.


massless blades

Let's turn to star wars for a moment. Specifically lightsabers. What a wonderful concept, a sword made of energy. However it has no mass, so you cna swing it with the flick of a wrist. Wonder why you see them bring their arms over head or back to swing a powerful death blow? Because their stupid. THat's reserved for actual swords, where the farther u you bring it the more force it will have. Something with no mass has no force. WIth a massless blade you can swing and stab amazingly fast. The only thing that can come close to it is fencing with very thin rapiers. The only soultion to this is that it tracks your movement, but then there is a limit to how fast your character moves so it will have to follow your recorded pattern and catch up. Players would have to check their speed, but this limits battle since you are constantly worrying about if you're swinging to fast, so you end up swinging slower. This clearly would suck, so we are left with a light blade simulator. another problem we run into is the fact that though the swords may clash in the game, in reality your swings keep going. SO unless they did something like in most fighters where the attack continues but just sort ofbounces off the opponents guard, this is a big problem.

invisible blades
if all you have is a handle, it's hard to visualize where your blade is. its hard to know where to block. and yeah.

However there is a solution to this and the massless blade. Make a blade. A light plastic extension on the revo contoller, preferably foam coated to avoid injuries. The best part about this is that the extensions would require no electironics. THey just slow the players down and give them something to work with. So the the game could easily come with a sowrd, axe, and dagger extensions. THis is a positive aspect. You may be thinking, so if they do hat, then the game would work right? Well not exactly.

Throwing

Throws are WAY gone. There's no way in hell you'll be picking up your friend and throwing him to the floor.

Kicking

Now i thought about this. If you attatched another revo contollers to one leg, that could work. The probelm is that you can't pad your foot, and i don' think anyone will have a good time when you're kicking each other.

Positioning

First of all, unless they have you input all your bodily dimensions in a profile, the character on screen won't be the same size as you. So your friend's slash may go over your head, but onscreen your forehead is wide open. The other is that if you jump to the side to avoid a stab, maybe your contoller doesn't go as far as you do, so onscreen you get stabbed.

The one solution is this: the kicking controller relays the bodies position, and the handheld is only for the weapons position. BUt that means kicking is out since sticking your foot forward means onscreen your whole body moves. SO to solve this we have to cut kicks and attach the controller to waist. This is still a probelm because it will only sense the change in your waist. it s god if you're walking, not if you're bending backwards.

So in conclusion, even with plastic weapon extensions, no throws, or kicks, and something to sense your whole body moving, the game still has problems knowing if you leaned your head one way or another or bent forwards/backwards.

There's one last trick up my sleeve. What if the two rev contollers were not connected, by a cable? The game just rembers that P1 and P2 are for the arm and waist of 1st player, and P3 and P4 contollers are for the second player. His leaves the extension ports of the controllers open. One controller has a gyroscopic sensor with the same capabilities as the main controller place on one foot, while another sensor is attached to the other controller and placed on the head.

So the game can dect each extreme of the body required for movemnet; the arm, head, waist, and leg. The only limitations on this setup is that you can only have a few basic shapes for weapons, the sword, axe, dagger, and maybe one more, and that you can't throw.


Unfortunately damage dealt by attacks still remains a problem. First there are specific weapons. You may deal more damage with Raphael's soul calibler blade than with his basic weapon for instance. You could still have things like link's mirror sheildm maybe judging buy a sudden stop that it was blocked and then dealing a little damage to the opponent. The other thing is by location of attack, and nautre of attack. A stab to the stomach or chest would deal more than a slash on the arm or leg. A player can know how much damage he takes if the game announces it out loud/ announces health remaining every time someone takes a hit.

So in the end we have no throws, a few basic weapon designs with further elaboration, fully body movement detection through use of two controllers with sensor extensions, and solid foam plastic blades.

THough a hollow sword extension may be cheap, i'm sure extension sensors would cost a bunch. If enough for one player cam per game i'm pretty sure this might run way up to possibly $100 if you consider about $20 per sensor and $10 for three sword extensions, proabaly even higher cost.

SO the question is, are you willing to pay that much for a fighter simulator? ANd if you personally will, do you think that there's an developers out there willing to put the time and money into something that appeals to a slimmer audience, mainly hard core gamers?

Myguess is no on at least one of those. Meaning the game either wouldn't happen or would be a flop.

What i'm seeing for the future still brings the sense of Fighting, but doesn't ditch the TV.

The equipment involved would be one controller in your hand, probably with a blade of sorts attachment who's only purpose is to add wieght and balance to the virtual sword.

The screen is split, with a first person perspective, viewing your opponent. Third person wouldn't work becuase you wouldn't be able to see where your character was blocking.Each player sits across from their respective character. You fight based on what you see your opponent oing on screen. You move with the D-Pad,and throw with B.

What do you guys see in the future of fighters?
 

Resting_Fox

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I think for fighters like you speak of, it would be best implemented online. However, I doubt that I'd like to play a fighting game entirely in first person perspective. I might wet myself, and then what? How can I whoop samurai tooshy when my pants are all wet and squishy?

But using a lightsaber, while still facing the screen, could be done well. I can see myself slashing a wookie in half now.

Anyway, Who else thinks the Rev is Nintendo's way of trying to solve American Obesity? Not surprising that Microsoft would WANT us to remain as cattle, sedated by our corpulance. Nintendo, on the other hand, is finally allowing us to get some modest exercise while we play. That, I think, is the best part.
 

blaksheap82

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PSP stands for "Port Station Predictable". I prefer original games on my handheld instead of the same thing I have at home; nothing like beating a game twice when you don't want to.

Anyway, I had a thought: Nin is supposedly strategizing the Rev as a secondary console, while still claiming they'll have more third-party support this time around, because they've learned from their mistakes, etc. But if people have two systems, either a PS3 or a X360 and a Rev, when they buy a multi-platform game, won't they probably just buy it for whichever system has better graphics? I know we haven't seen any of the Rev's graphical capabilities yet, but Nin's focus is still on gameplay, and we all know what Microsoft's focus is (and will always be). This sounds like it could push Nin even further into the "niche market" (such a stupid term) than it already is, if people buy games for the Rev that will only be on the Rev, like Nin's franchises, which is what many people I know bought a GC for.
 

Mic_128

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blaksheap82 said:
But if people have two systems, either a PS3 or a X360 and a Rev, when they buy a multi-platform game, won't they probably just buy it for whichever system has better graphics?
Or the bonus features that come with the particular version. For example, some (ie, few)multi-platform games on the GC had bonus content when linking up the GBA. For example, there was a few extra weapons in a splinter cell game that were controlled with the GBA.

The Rev's secret may be the reason you buy a game for the rev and not the PS3.
 

McFox

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blaksheap82 said:
But if people have two systems, either a PS3 or a X360 and a Rev, when they buy a multi-platform game, won't they probably just buy it for whichever system has better graphics?
Three words:

Soul Calibur 2
 

G-Ron

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overall, i am greatly interested in what type of add-ons, special controllers, and other types of periphials that nintendo will pull out of their hat. and i think as far as the virtual reality goes, when technology becomes capable enough to make it consumer friendly, i think nintendo will be the first company to do it.
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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tell me, Cashed, does the phrase "multi-billion dollar corporation" mean anything to you?

here i'll give you a simple equation.

Microsoft+goal=$$$$$$$$$$$

(yeah i know that was sarcasm. i think. w/e)
 

McFox

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That's a good one Red. Except you forgot the following:

Sony+goal=$$$$$$$$$$$
Nintendo+goal=$$$$$$$$$$$

People seem to think that because Microsoft has the most money, they're the only company whose focus is money.
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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that's why i said it was sarcasm.

maybe you thought i was referring to cashed's post.

ANYways, i found an interesting article about somthing called displacement mapping, a thecnique for much more precision and incredible textures without a very powerful graphics card. Basically, Nintendo could be implementing this for incredible visuals despite what their acutal hardware specs are. This may be why we will say 'wow' according to Satoru Iwata.

Actually, displacement mapping comes at a price. Right now, it requires large amounts of CPU activity. There are someways to decrease the power needed, but in general most people don;'t use it.

However, in 2000 Nintendo patened a new displacement mapping technology. Perhaps they have discovered a fast and efficient method of displacement technology, reducing hardware specs.

for the lazy people, images.



and


Read the full article here.

edit: wow, my spelling sucks.
 

evilstrawberry99

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As much as I hate to say it, i dont think there will be online play(according to IGN). I guess Iwata said "nobody wants to go online" and backed it up by showing that only 20% of xbox owners play on xbox live. :(

EDIT: ok iwata never said that xbox thing but its true.
 

Mic_128

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evilstrawberry99 said:
As much as I hate to say it, i dont think there will be online play(according to IGN). I guess Iwata said "nobody wants to go online" and backed it up by showing that only 20% of xbox owners play on xbox live. :(

EDIT: ok iwata never said that xbox thing but its true.
Despite the fact that Nintendo announced at E3 they are doing online games? Despite the fact that the DS is online? Despite the fact that even if that percentage is true (which I doubt), that's still a few hundred thousands (if not in the millions) people who play XBox live?
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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Mic_128 said:
Wow. Those red x's look so cool.
they work on my home computer, but not at my school.

it might be the browser(i use firefox at home, IE at school).

Or you could actually comment on what i wrote/read the guy's article, instead of just essentially saying "your images don't work, and that's all i care about".
 

blaksheap82

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Okay McFox, point, SCII is a perfect example, except Spawn was not a popular gaming char, and from what I read his video game sucked, so that could explain the low Xbox sales, but other than that you made a good point. SCII points out how the sales were somewhat dependent on whatever console's franchise char was in the game, and apparently Link is pretty popular, big surprise... So in a case like that, the companies will still be competing for whoever gets the best extras in their games. No wonder EA, of all people, said they're eager to work with Nin's innovation this time around, heh, heh.

And Cashed, I meant graphics when I mentioned Microsoft's focus, but online play is in there too. It still shows how cheap Microsoft is with their products, the fact that their games can't stand on their own without stuff like that. I doubt Halo 2 would have been as huge a success without Xbox Live, whereas Smash has just as much replay factor without online play.
 

Cashed

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blaksheap82 said:
And Cashed, I meant graphics when I mentioned Microsoft's focus, but online play is in there too. It still shows how cheap Microsoft is with their products, the fact that their games can't stand on their own without stuff like that. I doubt Halo 2 would have been as huge a success without Xbox Live, whereas Smash has just as much replay factor without online play.
Uh, no. How is having good graphics cheap? Out of the Xbox games I own, I bought them for the fun factor, not for the graphics. I didn't buy Halo 2 to run around and be like "omg teh grafix!" but yeah, I could do that if I wanted, the game has great graphics. And why wouldn't have Halo 2 been a success without Live? It's a lot of fun, just like the original Halo (which also sold a ton). Online just made the game even better, being able to jump into a game with up to 15 other people whenever you wanted. I'd disagree with your Smash Bros' online play statement because of that, online replay value does nothing but add replay value and fun to the game and games without it now a days are very lacking.
 

Crimson King

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tell me, Cashed, does the phrase "multi-billion dollar corporation" mean anything to you?

here i'll give you a simple equation.

Microsoft+goal=$$$$$$$$$$$

(yeah i know that was sarcasm. i think. w/e)
This arguement always pissed me off. Sony and Nintendo ONLY care about money. They don't care if you enjoy the game as long as you buy more of their stuff. They are businesses. Any other methods will never work. Plus, if Nintendo didn't care about money their games would be free.
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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i believe we covered this about half a page ago. keep up with the times man. obviously every business cares about money. duh. SARCASM. As in, oh hey Microsofts got lots more, they must care about more profit! Hey, that's great logic, right? [/sarcasm]

you know, what is it with you people? I spend about twenty minutes writing an essay on Revo fighters, and the only person that comments is resting_fox. i make one joke and all the mods pile on it. then i spend more time looking for information, posting something i'm interested in and thought other people might like as well, and all i get is mic whining that he can't see the pictures i added, which he could easily see just by clicking on the link i provided. should i just forget about trying to contibute and adding thoughtful insights or making jokes, or should i just screw it and complain/post boring random things that have been posted a million times before/post things that logically make no sense like the rest of you do? Not everyone complains. not everyone posts useless or incorrect stuff. but it seems that that is growing percentage of these boards.
 

Mic_128

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ChRed2AKrisp said:
should i just forget about trying to contibute and adding thoughtful insights or making jokes?
If they're as bad as the "joke" about Microsoft oinly wantng your money, then yes, no more jokes. went and looked at the pics in the link, and I just thought, meh. I couldn't be bothered posting just to say "meh", so here you go.

Meh
 

Chill

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Chared, I read all of that stuff and I don't think it has anything to do the Rev. If the Revoulution has any secrets left I doubt it will be "look we have good graphics!" Especially after all this graphics being unimportant talk.
 

kaid

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I liket the suggestion (hidden in the "comments" section) that the controller might use gyro-force-feedback. Remember, the "Last Secret" supposedly still involves the controller somehow, and unless it's VR, which I HIGHLY doubt, that seems the option with the most potential.
 

Mic_128

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kaid said:
I liket the suggestion (hidden in the "comments" section) that the controller might use gyro-force-feedback.
You mean a rumble pack?
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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probably more like rumbling in specific directions. as in, my sword clangs on your sword, so the controller throws itself backwards realistically.

basically, the controller tries to move in the opposite direction of an impact force.
 

kaid

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One for each axis of movement.

ie: I swing a sword sidways, and it hits something, the rumble twists the controller back, as if it HAD hit something.

The rumble/gyros would have to be in or close to the center of mass, and the push wouldn't be as dramatic as it sounds, but... freehand force feedback! The possibilities!

EDIT: it's actually more of a flywheel effect than rumble. Rumble uses an asymetric weight spinning in a circle to make the controller jump around. This would use a regular, even wheel, that either gets spun in order to torque some counter-spin in the controller, or out-and-out gyroscopes that could precess(sp?) the controler in any (tilt) direction
 

G-Ron

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nice... that sounds like a pretty sweet idea..imagine a shooter where not only do you have to look at the gun for its fire rate, strength, and accuracy but you also have to question your ability to handle the amount of recoil that it dishes out

*exitement face*
 

blaksheap82

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If you look at the size and apparent lightness of the Remote, I doubt any kind of rumble/gyro technology would be able to simulate the kickback of even a Deringer. Also, even if it had kickback simulating a sword clanging, the rumble/gyros would need to simulate pushing against something, not held in midair in your hand, and the Remote just doesn't look heavy duty enough.
 

Giygas

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I think a more realistic envisioning of a rumble feature for the Revolution controller is only for it to rumble in specific areas. Example: you're in a sword fight and just the tip of the sword hits your opponents; therefore, only the tip of the controller vibrates.
 

blaksheap82

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That would accomplish a much more realisitic tactile feedback function, but wouldn't that require extremely tiny, multiple rumbles/gyros incorporated into several specific points inside the Remote? I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but that would also make the production costs go through the roof; but if that really was the secret feature Miyamoto (or was it Iwata?) was talking about regarding the Remote, I'd be thoroughly impressed. I just wouldn't count on it.
 

McFox

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We already know (or at least assume) that the controller will have rumble capabilities, since Nintendo created the concept and they've used it ever since. From the way Nintendo talks about the other secret that's not yet been revealed, it seems more major than "the controller rumbles in specific areas." I'd feel kind of cheated if that's all it was. They're making it out to be more than that.
 

kaid

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The gyro effect doesn't have to be powerful to be impressive. And as for "pushing off" something... Gyros are weird- they actually don't have to.
 

Chill

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I think your expectations are more than a bit unrealistic. It would be cool but looking at the size of the controller it does not seem likely.
 
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